Luck ranked #10 by Jaws in QB rankings

[amfootball]

So if Brady decided to retire tomorrow, you would rather have Tebow as your starting QB over Luck? Is that what you are saying?

This is what I never understand about this board. You make a complimentary statement about player and all of sudden someone takes that and blows it up 1000 times. What I am saying is Tebow already proved he could win in the NFL if given a chance with an offense suited to his strengths. Much the way Griffin, Newton, Wilson, and Luck had offenses suited to them in year one ... he is not an abject failure as some would like to believe and his season from two years ago resembles Luck's from last year in many ways.

[dw49]

Call it what you want. Tebow isn't a good passer, never will be.

 

Pagano was hired in late January. He was diagnosed in late September. That's eight months of work he put in, and that work had already started to pay off. For you to say he wasn't even in the facility is nuts. Look at the way the team rallied around his "Build the Monster" slogan, or the power rankings t-shirts. None of those things equal wins, but Pagano set the tone in the offseason and the preseason, and early in the year. The team's identity was forged largely from Pagano's influence.

 

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2012/03/coach-tomlin-says-he-made-steelers-calls-on-firinghiring/1#.UeRWY9K1HkY

It's also worth noting that there had been calls for a couple years to get rid of Arians as the coordinator in Pittsburgh. His flaws are obvious, and us Colts fans got a close-up look at them in 2012.

 

 

 

Hard to believe people have such a hard time understanding that when a rookie QB is asked to complete long down field passes , it's going to increase your int % and lower your completion rate. Add to that the worst offensive line in pro football , two WR's that were at the top of the league in drops and a rookie running back that was below average in both route running and pass protection. 

 

One guy you are bantering with even  claims that Wayne had his best year ever. Reggie Wayne is a 35 year old possession receiver who is not a legitimate No.1 NFL receiver. If your QB fills the sky with passes and you are his number one target , you are going to put up some pretty good numbers. 

 

Wasn't Bruce Arians sitting on a curb when the Colts hired him? Now he's irreplaceable ? Luck will be just fine without Arians. I would worry more about Arians and the Bidwell guy.

[Jules]

[BOTT]

Wow. Colts fans are a tough crowd to please. First it was Caldwell and his 14 win season which would have been 16 if he was allowed to play his starters and now Arians and his 11 wins on a team that lost its HC and was supposed to win only a handful of games. What are you going to say about Pagano if the team does take a step back and manages to only win 8-9 games this season?

People really like Arians...he is just a very flawed OC. IMO, he might make a better head coach than OC.

[Jules]

Wow. Colts fans are a tough crowd to please. First it was Caldwell and his 14 win season which would have been 16 if he was allowed to play his starters and now Arians and his 11 wins on a team that lost its HC and was supposed to win only a handful of games. What are you going to say about Pagano if the team does take a step back and manages to only win 8-9 games this season?

 

lol what are you gonna say if the Pats flame out early in the postseason next year?

[Jules]

People really like Arians...he is just a very flawed OC. IMO, he might make a better head coach than OC.

 

This.

[amfootball]

People really like Arians...he is just a very flawed OC. IMO, he might make a better head coach than OC.

Why? Are you blaming Luck's picks and misses on him?

[Superman]

Wow. Colts fans are a tough crowd to please. First it was Caldwell and his 14 win season which would have been 16 if he was allowed to play his starters and now Arians and his 11 wins on a team that lost its HC and was supposed to win only a handful of games. What are you going to say about Pagano if the team does take a step back and manages to only win 8-9 games this season?

 

What's so hard to grasp about what I'm saying? Arians did a great job as a head coach, and I think he'll do well in Arizona. But he's flawed as a coordinator, particularly his play calling. I don't hate him, I don't think he's a bad coach, it's obvious his players love him. But he's flawed, and I'm happy that we went in a different direction.

 

Pagano's Xs and Os are still very much in question, as is his game management and ability to adjust on the fly. But his leadership and motivational ability are well established, his players love him, and he has no problem attracting good football people to work on his staff. I'll analyze his job as head coach just like I do everyone else, on its merits.

 

Here, this will probably make your head spin: I'd rather have Bruce Arians than Jim Caldwell as a head coach, but I'd rather have Jim Caldwell than Bruce Arians as a coordinator. 

[amfootball]

lol what are you gonna say if the Pats flame out early in the postseason next year?

Depends why they flame out but pointing fingers at the coaching when your HC is COY is lame.

[amfootball]

What's so hard to grasp about what I'm saying? Arians did a great job as a head coach, and I think he'll do well in Arizona. But he's flawed as a coordinator, particularly his play calling. I don't hate him, I don't think he's a bad coach, it's obvious his players love him. But he's flawed, and I'm happy that we went in a different direction.

 

Pagano's Xs and Os are still very much in question, as is his game management and ability to adjust on the fly. But his leadership and motivational ability are well established, his players love him, and he has no problem attracting good football people to work on his staff. I'll analyze his job as head coach just like I do everyone else, on its merits.

 

Here, this will probably make your head spin: I'd rather have Bruce Arians than Jim Caldwell as a head coach, but I'd rather have Jim Caldwell than Bruce Arians as a coordinator. 

Nice to see you already have your issues with Pagano lined up in case the Colts win 12 games but lose in the playoffs. lol. 

 

Good grief .. my head is spinning.

[dw49]

This is what I never understand about this board. You make a complimentary statement about player and all of sudden someone takes that and blows it up 1000 times. What I am saying is Tebow already proved he could win in the NFL if given a chance with an offense suited to his strengths. Much the way Griffin, Newton, Wilson, and Luck had offenses suited to them in year one ... he is not an abject failure as some would like to believe and his season from two years ago resembles Luck's from last year in many ways.

 

 

The offense Arians gave Luck to run , was pretty tough considering the horrible O Line and all the rookies in the offense. Saying that it was "suited to his strengths " is just talk without thought behind it

[jvan1973]

Nice to see you already have your issues with Pagano lined up in case the Colts win 12 games but lose in the playoffs. lol.

Good grief .. my head is spinning.

there is a very easy cure for that

[Superman]

Why? Are you blaming Luck's picks and misses on him?

 

Some of them, yes. Luck attempted more passes 15+ yards downfield than any other QB last year. As a rookie, with young receivers, and a poor offensive line. He took 41 sacks, and escaped another 20 with scrambles and throws under pressure (some of which resulted in picks). So, yes, absolutely, Arians' passing scheme and play calling is to blame for some of Luck's interceptions and incompletions. There's simply no doubt about it.

[Jules]

Depends why they flame out but pointing fingers at the coaching when your HC is COY is lame.

 

Yeah um.....okay. I mean most do like Arians here as has been said a lot. Not everyone loved his play calling at times though is all.

 

Many feel an emotional connection with Pagano which started in the offseason actually if you followed the team closely and he started to re-energize the squad and fans. And the cancer battle too......

 

And yes we do remember the games Pagano coached last year as well. And the emotions players such as Reggie Wayne felt towards Chuck. Heck when we played Baltimore did you see guys like Ed Reed with Pagano? A lot of these men love him.

 

Not to say we don't appreciate Arians too and all he did. Personally I hope he kicks butt in Zona and I thought he did a terrific job leading the troops.

 

I feel blessed this squad had so many leaders last season.

[Dustin]

 Reggie Wayne is a 35 year old possession receiver who is not a legitimate No.1 NFL receiver. 

 

 

 

He's still has the best hands and route running in the league. The only receiver in top 4 most targeted (Wayne, Calvin Johnson, Brandon Marshall, and Wes Welker) to not be top 10 in drops. 

 

The only legitimate claim is that he doesn't get YAC and considering Luck had a hard time hitting him in stride, it's not that surprising. 

[BOTT]

This is what I never understand about this board. You make a complimentary statement about player and all of sudden someone takes that and blows it up 1000 times. What I am saying is Tebow already proved he could win in the NFL if given a chance with an offense suited to his strengths. Much the way Griffin, Newton, Wilson, and Luck had offenses suited to them in year one ... he is not an abject failure as some would like to believe and his season from two years ago resembles Luck's from last year in many ways.

Tebow is not a quality QB. Just because he won some games with the a broncos doesn't make him a successful player. You think Vince Young should be starting in the NFL? He is 30-17 as a starter.

The rest of your post is just ridiculous.

[Superman]

Depends why they flame out but pointing fingers at the coaching when your HC is COY is lame.

 

Who is pointing fingers? I am giving plenty of credit to Bruce Arians, just not all of it.

 

It's like you don't understand the concept of nuance. I can simultaneously praise and criticize Bruce Arians. I can say that I'm glad he was here in 2012 and at the same time be glad he's not here in 2013. Everything isn't exactly black or white all the time.

[Superman]

Nice to see you already have your issues with Pagano lined up in case the Colts win 12 games but lose in the playoffs. lol. 

 

Good grief .. my head is spinning.

 

What the heck are you talking about? Pagano has coached five games. His book has yet to be written. I personally love the guy as a head coach. I expect greatness from him. I have NO issues with him. But I'm not ready to crown him at this point. It's too soon.

 

And again, I think Bruce Arians as a head coach will be good, so long as he allows someone else to call the plays on offense (and it doesn't look like he's going to at this point, but at least he has Tom Moore, who hopefully balances him out a little). 

[BOTT]

Why? Are you blaming Luck's picks and misses on him?

Just google Arians' shortcomings.....it's not a secret.

[ColtFan12]

Every year Ron Jaworski of ESPN does his top 32 quarterback countdown. He just got to the top #10 and this is where Jaws has him ranked, #10. He has some really good points about Luck, and it should be on Sportscenter Saturday, since it was on NFL Live today if anyone wants to tune in.

 

If anyone is interested where RGIII, Wilson, and Kapernick came in, since this is where all the comparisons have come, and who is the best QB, although Kaepernick has been in the league one year longer, they came in at the order above, at #13, #12, &11. So for everyone who gets tired of all the RGIII hype, and Kapernick news, at least someone who was a QB and really does a good job breaking them down, sees what we all do. At the close, he said he felt Luck could move up quite a bit after this year, and I have heard him say he thinks Luck has the highest ceiling, and if he were starting a franchise, out of these four QB's, Luck is who he would choose.

I think that Luck should have been #8 or #9 but then again I am biased.

[Superman]

Depends why they flame out but pointing fingers at the coaching when your HC is COY is lame.

 

Article from October 2011 about Bruce Arians' offense and play calling, from a Steelers fan.

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/875671-pittsburgh-steelers-bruce-arians-must-tailor-offense-to-the-steelers-talent

 

Bruce Arians, the Steelers' offensive coordinator, is a much maligned coach in Pittsburgh despite nationally being well regarded. The reality with Arians is that he does not know how to get the best out of the talent afforded to him....

The Steelers have been succeeding in spite of Arians....

Arians is putting a lot of pressure on his less-than-stellar group of blockers in the running game, but this is nothing compared to the dire situation of the passing attack....

When you consider a passing attack such as that run by Kyle Shanahan in Washington, Arians' playbook is put to shame. Shanahan is getting quality play from much less talent because he runs decisive routes and has a clear identity with Rex Grossman....

For years Bruce Arians' job security has been nothing close to safe. With the team's defense looking to suffer at least a slight drop off in production, Arians could be the one under the most pressure despite being on the opposite side of the ball....

Both Ben Roethlisberger's ability to be elite and Arians' play calling should be under severe scrutiny this season.

But go ahead, keep pretending that this is something being made up by us crazy Colts fans...

[braveheartcolt]

This is what I never understand about this board. You make a complimentary statement about player and all of sudden someone takes that and blows it up 1000 times. What I am saying is Tebow already proved he could win in the NFL if given a chance with an offense suited to his strengths. Much the way Griffin, Newton, Wilson, and Luck had offenses suited to them in year one ... he is not an abject failure as some would like to believe and his season from two years ago resembles Luck's from last year in many ways.

I asked a relaxed 'clarification' question based on your quoted post. Seems like you are confused regarding who is over reacting. Perhaps you could be kind enough to answer the question posed, rather than sidestep like Joe Addai....

[dw49]

He's still has the best hands and route running in the league. The only receiver in top 4 most targeted (Wayne, Calvin Johnson, Brandon Marshall, and Wes Welker) to not be top 10 in drops. 

 

The only legitimate claim is that he doesn't get YAC and considering Luck had a hard time hitting him in stride, it's not that surprising. 

 

 

No ....another legitimate claim would be that his speed is pedestrian and he has a difficult time getting separation. I don't know of a WR with better hands but I'm not sold on the statement that he is the NFL's best route runner. I've never heard him being "accused" of that before. Not that I want to get into an argument and put down RW , but the contract he signed two years ago did not in anyway reflect what you state. The top WR's were getting huge contracts and lets be honest ... Wayne was pretty much an "after thought " when Garcon said adios.  And yes , I understand his modest contract had a lot to do with him being older , but if he was viewed as a difference making NO 1 WR , he would have had a far bigger offer than 7 mill a year that was pretty club friendly towards cutting him after year 2.

 

 

But .. hey I like Wayne as much as the next guy , but is IMO is not a good No 1 NFL WR. 

[amfootball]

Tebow is not a quality QB. Just because he won some games with the a broncos doesn't make him a successful player. You think Vince Young should be starting in the NFL? He is 30-17 as a starter.

The rest of your post is just ridiculous.

Again, for the second time. What I am saying is that over 16 games Tebow proved to be not only a quality Qb but a divisional winner and a playoff winner. If a coaching staff builds the team around his strengths he has already proven he can be successful. He may get a chance with the Pats down the line to show what he can do over a longer stretch ..

[John Dee]

Nobody said Arians was lame...     some just feel he took a LOT of unnecessary risks with the QB.    

 

It worked out, but had it went the opposite direction...    Bruce A could be unemployed.  

 

I don't care how anyone paints it...   A Luck made Bruce A a lot of dough last season.     Manning and Rothelisberger could not "get BA there"  ...   But "Luck" did.

 

Now Bruce has his chance....        With a QB that cannot move, will he adjust?

 

I'm just glad dude is in Arizona now.

Depends why they flame out but pointing fingers at the coaching when your HC is COY is lame.

[amfootball]

Who is pointing fingers? I am giving plenty of credit to Bruce Arians, just not all of it.

 

It's like you don't understand the concept of nuance. I can simultaneously praise and criticize Bruce Arians. I can say that I'm glad he was here in 2012 and at the same time be glad he's not here in 2013. Everything isn't exactly black or white all the time.

You don't have to convince me. I know you are a flip flopper.

[amfootball]

Just google Arians' shortcomings.....it's not a secret.

Right, because every coach is perfect and flawless. I can think of about 25 teams that would love to have their coach be COY.

[Dustin]

 He may get a chance with the Pats down the line to show what he can do over a longer stretch ..

 

I sure hope that's true.

[Superman]

You don't have to convince me. I know you are a flip flopper.

 

For instance... ?

[House]

Right, because every coach is perfect and flawless. I can think of about 25 teams that would love to have their coach be COY.

How many teams wanted Arians as their HC before his stint with us?

Good/great coach, but his play calling is a known issue. Why are you acting like this is something new? It's not like it was brought up the moment he left. People mentioned his play calling as soon as we knew he was going to be the new OC.

[Dustin]

No ....another legitimate claim would be that his speed is pedestrian 

 

Fair enough. You don't have to be a speedster to be a good receiver. Look at Larry Fitzgerald and Dwayne Bowe.

 

 

and he has a difficult time getting separation.

 

 

 

Not really. You don't need speed to get separation. He gets separation because he runs the tightest routes in the league. You don't get 1,300 receiving yards by not being able to get separation.

 

 I don't know of a WR with better hands but I'm not sold on the statement that he is the NFL's best route runner

 

I am. I guess I can't convince you. But he does. And the only two player in the league who even come close are Roddy White and Larry Fitzgerald.

 

Not that I want to get into an argument and put down RW , but the contract he signed two years ago did not in anyway reflect what you state. 

 

 

He didn't get a ton of money because he was perceiver to be at the time a 34 year old receiver who was declining. Guess they were wrong. 

 

The top WR's were getting huge contracts and lets be honest ... Wayne was pretty much an "after thought " when Garcon said adios.  

 

 

Because Garcon was younger and perceived to have more upside, when in reality he's a below average route runner who's only good at running over the middle and running past linebackers. Garcon is a career #2 receiver.

 

 

And yes , I understand his modest contract had a lot to do with him being older , but if he was viewed as a difference making NO 1 WR , he would have had a far bigger offer than 7 mill a year that was pretty club friendly towards cutting him after year 2.

 

 

Who cares what other teams thought in 2011? They were all wrong anyway. 

[dw49]

Fair enough. You don't have to be a speedster to be a good receiver. Look at Larry Fitzgerald and Dwayne Bowe.

 

 

Not really. You don't need speed to get separation. He gets separation because he runs the tightest routes in the league. You don't get 1,300 receiving yards by not being able to get separation.

 

 

I am. I guess I can't convince you. But he does. And the only two player in the league who even come close are Roddy White and Larry Fitzgerald.

 

 

He didn't get a ton of money because he was perceiver to be at the time a 34 year old receiver who was declining. Guess they were wrong. 

 

 

Because Garcon was younger and perceived to have more upside, when in reality he's a below average route runner who's only good at running over the middle and running past linebackers. Garcon is a career #2 receiver.

 

 

Who cares what other teams thought in 2011? They were all wrong anyway. 

 

 

 

So we agree to disagree but I didn't say he "couldn't " get separation , I said he had "trouble" getting separation. Boldin is a good WR , but has trouble getting seperation.  1300 yards as you say is admirable , however you do have to take into account the tremendous amount of times he was targeted. Obviously they go "somewhat " hand in hand. 

 

If you think Wayne is a legit No 1 , then we disagree and I respect your opinion ... I just don't agree with it. There is no right or wrong answer. I could blame the 5 tds on Wayne , you could blame them on Luck , the O line or maybe even Arias. 

[BOTT]

Right, because every coach is perfect and flawless. I can think of about 25 teams that would love to have their coach be COY.

Didn't you just accuse people of taking something and exaggerating 100x.......pot meet kettle

[BOTT]

Again, for the second time. What I am saying is that over 16 games Tebow proved to be not only a quality Qb but a divisional winner and a playoff winner. If a coaching staff builds the team around his strengths he has already proven he can be successful. He may get a chance with the Pats down the line to show what he can do over a longer stretch ..

For the millionth time, you are delusional about Tebow. Why and how the Broncos won has been covered a thousand times, but you always chose to ignore it.

And I doubt Tebow even makes the patriots roster.

[amfootball]

For instance... ?

It's your schtick man. You always try to appear like you are toting the fence when you really have very pointed opinions and then when you are called on it you say but I didn't say that. You remind of Herman Edwards who will talk aout a  player and say what a great football player he is and then at the end he will throw in "but he can't play QB."

[amfootball]

For the millionth time, you are delusional about Tebow. Why and how the Broncos won has been covered a thousand times, but you always chose to ignore it.

And I doubt Tebow even makes the patriots roster.

ok. I guess we'll see ...

[amfootball]

How many teams wanted Arians as their HC before his stint with us?

Good/great coach, but his play calling is a known issue. Why are you acting like this is something new? It's not like it was brought up the moment he left. People mentioned his play calling as soon as we knew he was going to be the new OC.

I guess I think more of Arians than most here. To be honest I think play calling is subjective and hard to say whether any given play has its genesis from the coach or the QB or simply from improv by the offense. Most QBs walk to the line with three plays so they can audible if they don't like the look of the D and then when the ball is snapped the Qb is the one going thru his progressions. I think many of Luck's bad throws were just poor decisions by him and not Arians play calling.

[House]

I guess I think more of Arians than most here. To be honest I think play calling is subjective and hard to say whether any given play has its genesis from the coach or the QB or simply from improv by the offense. Most QBs walk to the line with three plays so they can audible if they don't like the look of the D and then when the ball is snapped the Qb is the one going thru his progressions. I think many of Luck's bad throws were just poor decisions by him and not Arians play calling.

I don't think many think poorly of Arians. Your just painting that picture to prove a point. Some may be bigger critics than others, but everyone knows he helped us have a great season last year.

I don't have proof of this, but I would be shocked to learn Andrew was allowed to audible any time he wanted. Because I've never heard of giving a rookie QB that kind of authority, and control of an offense. Not to mention that, besides the run game, the offense here looked just like the one run in Pittsburg all those years. So I don't think it's subjective to say Arians pulled the strings for the offense, and the play calling.

Andrew's picks are on him, but Arians play calling made it much more difficult for his rookie QB. He also ran a significant amount, so it seemed, of no back sets. This kind of play calling, on 3rd down especially, put a ton of pressure on Luck. Andrew answered the bell, but he was essentially on a long ball clinic all season. Which again leads to many many mistakes.

Steelers fans came here to thank us for taking Arians when we took him as our OC. Criticisms of his play calling are nothing new, and certainly not something specific to Colts fans.

[Jules]

I guess I think more of Arians than most here. To be honest I think play calling is subjective and hard to say whether any given play has its genesis from the coach or the QB or simply from improv by the offense. Most QBs walk to the line with three plays so they can audible if they don't like the look of the D and then when the ball is snapped the Qb is the one going thru his progressions. I think many of Luck's bad throws were just poor decisions by him and not Arians play calling.

 

Actually many here think very highly of Arians and praised him a lot last season and still appreciate the work he did all year long. But, people here also think highly of Pagano and have followed this team much more closely then you have since the drama of last season unfolded and all the new faces were brought in. And again I want to specifiy that I think more feel an emotional connection to Pagano.

 

Of course some of the mistakes were on Andrew.....

 

However, I think some are also excited because they feel possibly Pep Hamilton will bring out the best in Luck again and that as good as Arians is he might not have been the best overall "fit" at OC for Luck and utilizing his strengths.

 

 

JMO

[John Dee]

Arians DID run the O, but in last minute situations...  when Luck was "turned loose"  he EXCELLED.... 

 

Arians is a part of one of the most satisfying seasons in Indy Colt history....

 

That said...   I cannot wait until AL and Pep start doing what they do.... 

 

Arians is old school....      that's fine.

 

I for one am just glad he is old school in ZONA.    

I don't think many think poorly of Arians. Your just painting that picture to prove a point. Some may be bigger critics than others, but everyone knows he helped us have a great season last year.

I don't have proof of this, but I would be shocked to learn Andrew was allowed to audible any time he wanted. Because I've never heard of giving a rookie QB that kind of authority, and control of an offense. Not to mention that, besides the run game, the offense here looked just like the one run in Pittsburg all those years. So I don't think it's subjective to say Arians pulled the strings for the offense, and the play calling.

Andrew's picks are on him, but Arians play calling made it much more difficult for his rookie QB. He also ran a significant amount, so it seemed, of no back sets. This kind of play calling, on 3rd down especially, put a ton of pressure on Luck. Andrew answered the bell, but he was essentially on a long ball clinic all season. Which again leads to many many mistakes.

Steelers fans came here to thank us for taking Arians when we took him as our OC. Criticisms of his play calling are nothing new, and certainly not something specific to Colts fans.