Chap on this season's outlook...

[John Dee]

"the gift that keeps on giving" ... hehehe.. Indy hauling 30 - 40 MILLION in DEAD money.

Hayden is playing for the Bears..... and STILL making 5m from Indy???

Tim Jennings was ran out of town..... we would kill to still have him.

Oh wellll...

Really good interview.

http://www.1070thefan.com/podcast/Episodes.aspx?PID=2161

[TKnight24]

Oh, I was thinking Chapman our DT from Bama lol

[NewColtsFan]

"the gift that keeps on giving" ... hehehe.. Indy hauling 30 - 40 MILLION in DEAD money.

Hayden is playing for the Bears..... and STILL making 5m from Indy???

Tim Jennings was ran out of town..... we would kill to still have him.

Oh wellll...

Really good interview.

http://www.1070thefa...s.aspx?PID=2161

I don't Hayden is still making anything from Indy.....

When we cut him, the money stops. But the 'salary cap figure' stays in place to a certain degree.

Hence the expression 'dead money'.... the money is spoken for and takes up space on a ledger, but it's not spent. But it's the same as if it were spent because it's dead.

Does that make any sense? Because it sure doesn't to me. I'm fading early out west........ hopefully Superman or FJC comes along, sees my feeble attempt at an explanation and clears-up this mess.

See you on the flip side....

[Warhorse]

I wouldn't kill for Jennings. I like where we are and are going.

[John Dee]

I am no capalogist but when a "singning" bonus is paid. the team that paid it is on the HOOK for it, depending on how they did it. Lump, or pro rate it .... which I am assuming Indy did with Hayden since Chap brought it up. he would know.

I am really kind of surprised at how Polian let this thing get out of control in the last few years.

Rock ON>..

[Poster X]

I was unaware Kelvin Hayden was with the Bears... last I heard he was a Falcon. His first pick oddly enough was of Rex Grossman in the Super Bowl against them, and returned 50+ yards.

[John Dee]

I wouldn't kill for Jennings. I like where we are and are going.

I really felt Jennings got a raw deal in Indy.. he was never bad but never great. He goes to Chicago, playing in the same system and he is a "valued" member of the secondary.

Indy would have benefited from his presence on the team the last few years.. IMO.

Good CB's are hard to come around.... ... And like it or not Tim has become a "good" NFL CB.

[stat2883]

I am no capalogist but when a "singning" bonus is paid. the team that paid it is on the HOOK for it, depending on how they did it. Lump, or pro rate it .... which I am assuming Indy did with Hayden since Chap brought it up. he would know.

I am really kind of surprised at how Polian let this thing get out of control in the last few years.

Rock ON>..

informative if you have the time and patience (albeit outdated in many aspects now)... http://scholarship.l...ntext=sportslaw

By definition, a signing bonus is paid in full to the player upon signing, however the rules of the cap allow the cap hit to be spread out over the length of the contract. If a player is cut before the end of his contract, the remaining cap hit gets escalated to the current year if cut before June 1. If cut after, I *think* its broken up over the next two years, but I'd have to look that up to make sure I'm remembering right.

So, even though Hayden's name is still in the books, he already received his money.

and if you are REALLY patient and have loads of time....here's the new CBA: http://nfllabor.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/collective-bargaining-agreement-2011-2020.pdf

[John Dee]

Hayden's release from Indy...

http://www.stampedeblue.com/2011/7/30/2305900/report-colts-will-release-cornerback-kelvin-hayden-rookie-chris

Yep.

[throwing BBZ]

I am no capalogist but when a "singning" bonus is paid. the team that paid it is on the HOOK for it, depending on how they did it. Lump, or pro rate it .... which I am assuming Indy did with Hayden since Chap brought it up. he would know.

I am really kind of surprised at how Polian let this thing get out of control in the last few years.

Rock ON>..

Teams that win over a long period of time sign there OWN worthy FA`s using sizeable up front bonuses to push back the cap hit.

Polian did what others do in this situation. Our owner seemed to Shout Out he was going to pay top $$$. He made Freeney the top paid DE in the league, Bob Sanders top S, Dallas top TE, Manning, and the $9M per for Hayden was a Big Surprise for me. Irsay said he was $50M over the cap in Bonus $$$ at the end of last season.

That made this the Perfect season to dump all the old contracts and start after this season with a clean slate.

Then the cycle starts again.

.

BTW, that was why Polian never signed FA, he had no $$$ to spend and we watched him choose LB`er as UFA to let go and replace on the ceap.

[throwing BBZ]

I really felt Jennings got a raw deal in Indy.. he was never bad but never great. He goes to Chicago, playing in the same system and he is a "valued" member of the secondary.

Indy would have benefited from his presence on the team the last few years.. IMO.

Good CB's are hard to come around.... ... And like it or not Tim has become a "good" NFL CB.

He couldn`t stay healthy so we moved on. He played well last season.

[HtownColt]

I don't Hayden is still making anything from Indy.....

When we cut him, the money stops. But the 'salary cap figure' stays in place to a certain degree.

Hence the exp<b></b>ression 'dead money'.... the money is spoken for and takes up space on a ledger, but it's not spent. But it's the same as if it were spent because it's dead.

Does that make any sense? Because it sure doesn't to me. I'm fading early out west........ hopefully Superman or FJC comes along, sees my feeble attempt at an explanation and clears-up this mess.

See you on the flip side....

Here is our list of players and how much we owe players this year and their cap hit. Notice we bought out alot of players contracts(cut players) like we owe Manning $10mil this year, Brackett $7mil, Hayden $5mil, Clark $5mil, Addai $3.7mil, Bullitt $2.6mil, the list goes on but this is the last year we have to pay these guys. Well here is the link to it:

http://www.sportscity.com/nfl-salaries/indianapolis-colts-salaries/

[BOTT]

chap still thinks the colts should sign gary brackett.....to say the least i don't think much of his opinion.

[Balzer40]

chap still thinks the colts should sign gary brackett.....to say the least i don't think much of his opinion.

You would think being a supposed "insider" he would understand the fact that Brackett would be a terrible fit in the new system.

[Phil J]

You would think being a supposed "insider" he would understand the fact that Brackett would be a terrible fit in the new system.

you would also think that he would understand Jennings was garbage for us. and now we would "kill" to have him back? I hope Luck embarasses Tim and that side of the field on Sunday.

[Balzer40]

you would also think that he would understand Jennings was garbage for us. and now we would "kill" to have him back? I hope Luck embarasses Tim and that side of the field on Sunday.

Agreed, I don't know anybody that would "kill" to have Jennings back. Despite what he's done in Chicago, it don't change the fact that he was awful here. Im happy with our secondary now and as far as Im concerned, Chicago can keep Jennings.

[NewColtsFan]

Here is our list of players and how much we owe players this year and their cap hit. Notice we bought out alot of players contracts(cut players) like we owe Manning $10mil this year, Brackett $7mil, Hayden $5mil, Clark $5mil, Addai $3.7mil, Bullitt $2.6mil, the list goes on but this is the last year we have to pay these guys. Well here is the link to it:

http://www.sportscit...colts-salaries/

HTown....

I'm pretty confident that we don't pay these guys a nickel. The money is on the books, but we don't write a check and the former players don't cash a check. That's why it's called 'dead money'....

So, there's roughly $40 Mill on the books to players who no longer play for the Colts, the Manning's and Brackets, etc..... but the Colts don't actually cut a check to these guys and they don't cash anything. But that money on the books prevents us from going out and actually spending real money and real players.

When that money comes off the books next year, then we can spend real money once again.

[HtownColt]

HTown....

I'm pretty confident that we don't pay these guys a nickel. The money is on the books, but we don't write a check and the former players don't cash a check. That's why it's called 'dead money'....

So, there's roughly $40 Mill on the books to players who no longer play for the Colts, the Manning's and Brackets, etc..... but the Colts don't actually cut a check to these guys and they don't cash anything. But that money on the books prevents us from going out and actually spending real money and real players.

When that money comes off the books next year, then we can spend real money once again.

They already got paid that money when they got their bonus on their contract signing. But how they spread out their prorated bonuses in each year of their contract is why their numbers show up in the cap which is called dead money.

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2012/03/explaining-salary-cap-dead-money/

[BOTT]

you would also think that he would understand Jennings was garbage for us. and now we would "kill" to have him back? I hope Luck embarasses Tim and that side of the field on Sunday.

and didn't the bears bench jennings late last season?

[NewColtsFan]

They already got paid that money when they got their bonus on their contract signing. But how they spread out their prorated bonuses in each year of their contract is why their numbers show up in the cap which is called dead money.

http://www.steelersd...cap-dead-money/

What's your point? You've got several posts here and elsewhere claiming the Colts are still writing checks to former players. Several posters here -- me included -- are saying that's not how it works. There are no more checks going out to former players. That stopped when the team cut the player -- period.

And the pro-rated money is not just the signing bonus, it's salary too. "Dead money" simply means money that's technically committed but not spent. It takes up space in a salary cap preventing a team from spending more.

The Colts have roughly $40 million in so-called "dead money." But it's costing the team.... nothing, nada, zip, zero. We don't write a check. No other money is going out.

The rest of the actual payroll, roughly $80 million for the players on the roster -- that's the money the Colt's are writing checks for. But not for 'dead money'

Hope that helps. If not, perhaps Superman or FireJimCaldwell can explain it better than I can.....

[ProblChld32]

Hayden's release from Indy...

http://www.stampedeb...en-rookie-chris

Yep.

Lol we see how this turned out Rucker was cut and Hayden is bouncing from roster to roster, IMO i would have rather have had Hayden if he was willing to re-structure his contract. he wasn't the best corner we had but he was very serviceable and got the job done, he also had a knack for forcing turnovers and was a sure Tackler.

[HtownColt]

Im not saying we are still paying them, im saying they have been paid that money in bonuses when they signed and the team spreads it out over the contract years to fit the cap. an if they are released that bonus money still counts toward the cap which is called dead money . now here is a link that explains dead money NewColtsFan because you obviously is confused to exactly is dead money : http://www.sfgate.com/sports/article/A-primer-to-explain-dead-money-2661440.php

[stat2883]

And the pro-rated money is not just the signing bonus, it's salary too.

That would only be the case if the salary were guaranteed, which in the vast majority of cases, they are not. If the salary isn't guaranteed, it gets wiped off the books when the player is released. Keep in mind that salary and signing bonus are two different entities.

Aside from that minor detail, it sounds to me like you and HtownColt are saying the same thing, just worded differently and that might be leading to some confusion.

[Superman]

Im not saying we are still paying them, im saying they have been paid that money in bonuses when they signed and the team spreads it out over the contract years to fit the cap. an if they are released that bonus money still counts toward the cap which is called dead money . now here is a link that explains dead money NewColtsFan because you obviously is confused to exactly is dead money : http://www.sfgate.com/sports/article/A-primer-to-explain-dead-money-2661440.php

From what I understand...

The signing bonus money is paid out upfront, or can be split into multiple payments. But it all hits the cap, one way or the other. If the signing bonus is $5 million, and the contract is for five years, the bonus gets amortized evenly -- $1 million per year against the cap.

But if you cut the player after Year 2, the remaining $3 million in signing bonus money (prorated bonus) that hasn't been counted against the cap is all counted against the cap at that point. Or, depending on the release date, the prorated bonus can be split between two seasons, which is why we're still carrying Hayden's prorated bonus even though he was cut before last season.

The prorated bonus is not necessarily indicative of what the team might still owe the player. But in the simplest contract, assuming the player is released before the season starts, no money is owed to the player, even if the team is still carrying the prorated bonus.

So when we talk about the dead money, it's just accounting. In reality, the dead cap hits are saving Irsay money. And in every instance, the team's salary cap figure has very little to do with the actual cash outlay because of the prorated bonuses, new signing bonuses, etc. By converting salary to bonus, you can actually increase your cash outlay and at the same time decrease your cap figure.

[stat2883]

By converting salary to bonus, you can actually increase your cash outlay and at the same time decrease your cap figure.

yup, this is common practice. For example, say a player is in the final year of his contract where his base salary is 8 million. If the team needs cap room, they'll ask that player to restructure, usually by adding years to the contract. They will take that 8 million and convert it to a signing bonus and extend him say 4 years and usually make his salary at or close to the minimum. So instead of the player counting 8 million against the cap that year, he would cost only 2 million + whatever small base salary in this case. The player still pockets the entire 8 million and change, except now he has an additional 3 years on his contract where the rest of the converted bonus is prorated at 2 million per season - in addition again to whatever small base salary the team may have implemented.

current contract - 1 year remaining with 8 million salary owed - current cap hit = 8 millino

restructured - 4 years remaining, base salary 700k w/ 8 million bonus - new cap hit = 2.7 million

People often credit players for "helping the team" by restructuring, but in I'd guess 99% of the instances, that player pockets the same amount if not more by restructuring.

For years the Redskins were always headed for "salary cap heck" but they kept deferring it using this method, continuously mortgaging the future to pay the present. It worked for them because they had the actual cash on hand though - not all clubs have the cash flow to do this though. The skins broke $150 million in actual paid dollars a couple times if memory serves, even though the actual cap was only around 105 million or so. That's why, even though the actual salary cap is the same for all teams and revenue sharing from things like TV contracts gets distributed to all teams, franchises like the Redskins and Cowboys still have the advantage because of other revenue streams such as marketing, stadium naming rights, etc. This was a major bone of contention in the previous CBA talks too amongst the owners themselves. Teams like the Browns and Cardinals don't have the cash on hand to hand out huge signing bonuses like the Redskins did for those years. Cash beats cap 9 times out of 10.