30 Yard Penalty Coming?

[King Colt]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/12/06/nfl-will-discuss-allowing-two-personal-fouls-to-be-accepted-on-one-play/

NFL will discuss allowing two personal fouls to be accepted on one play

Posted by Michael David Smith on December 6, 2017, 2:10 PM EST

Getty Images

When Steelers wide receiver JuJu Smith-Schuster delivered an illegal block to Bengals linebacker Vontaze Burfict, and then stood over Burfict and taunted him afterward, Pittsburgh was flagged for two penalties. But by rule, only one of those penalties could be enforced — a rule the league will consider changing for next year.

NFL Executive Vice President of Football Operations Troy Vincent said today that the league has discussed changing the rules so that two personal foul penalties could both be accepted, allowing for a 30-yard penalty for egregious acts.

 

“It has been discussed,” Vincent said. “It’ll be discussed again in February.”

The rule that only one penalty can be enforced on a team on a play makes sense, to a point: If four different offensive linemen false start, it wouldn’t make sense to call four five-yard penalties and march the offense back 20 yards. But the rule that allowed Smith-Schuster to get away with both an illegal hit and taunting — which was considered part of the “continuing action” of the play even though it happened after the play was over — creates a bad precedent where players could figure that if they’re going to get flagged for a personal foul anyway they might as well just go ahead and taunt the guy they hit.

So although 30 yards of penalties would be a harsh punishment, it would make sense: If a player commits two personal fouls on one play, he deserves a harsh punishment.

 

[JaguarsWoman]

The new ejection rule the NFL made up last year was for "two peronal fouls" including flagrant helmet hits, not just the unsporstmanliike conduct penalties we usually hear about. JuJu-Smith-Schuster did both in quick succession so it was supposed to be an ejection for two such penalties. But there is a quirk in the rulebook that requires teams to decline a penalty. I think the NFL is trying to fix that.

[BloodyChamp]

Wasn't a dirty hit, let alone an illegal one. He did taunt pretty bad even by trash talking standards but it wasn't a dirty hit. I can't prove it but I'd bet that atleast 1 of the flags flew because of the sound of the pop which has happened before.

 

The hit was like the Warren Sapp hit on Chad Clifton. JuJu wasn't hustling and he got his jaw jacked. Rewatch him before the hit. He was all but standing still.

[mikey287]

To answer the question in the title, the linked article seems to suggest: "no." As it is being termed as two 15-yard penalties

[chad72]

What I do not understand is why they let helmet hits on people with the ball who have become runners. Yesterday, Deion Jones led with his helmet against Kamara to his helmet. Does leading with the helmet not matter then, if it is a runner? I think it should. You cannot control how the runner lowers his head or shoulder for the helmet-to-helmet call but you can definitely control how the defender leads with the helmet, IMO.

 

Leading with the helmet should be applied not just for bang-bang plays against defenseless receivers, but also for hits to RBs. Athletes are getting bigger, stronger and faster, and it is only logical to do, given all the data we have gathered so far. Mike Mitchell can go cry whatever and wherever he wants.  

[JaguarsWoman]

12 hours ago, BloodyChamp said:

Wasn't a dirty hit, let alone an illegal one. He did taunt pretty bad even by trash talking standards but it wasn't a dirty hit. I can't prove it but I'd bet that atleast 1 of the flags flew because of the sound of the pop which has happened before.

 

The hit was like the Warren Sapp hit on Chad Clifton. JuJu wasn't hustling and he got his jaw jacked. Rewatch him before the hit. He was all but standing still.

 

It was worse than the Sapp/Clifton taunt. At least Sapp did not trip over Clifton's arm like Smith-Shuster did.

 

Officials often throw flags because they heard helmets colliding. They have to talk it over to determine if was dirty or a legal hit. I don't think JSS was trying to hurt Burfict because he is a rookie, but can understand why there was a flag.

[2006Coltsbestever]

5 hours ago, chad72 said:

What I do not understand is why they let helmet hits on people with the ball who have become runners. Yesterday, Deion Jones led with his helmet against Kamara to his helmet. Does leading with the helmet not matter then, if it is a runner? I think it should. You cannot control how the runner lowers his head or shoulder for the helmet-to-helmet call but you can definitely control how the defender leads with the helmet, IMO.

 

Leading with the helmet should be applied not just for bang-bang plays against defenseless receivers, but also for hits to RBs. Athletes are getting bigger, stronger and faster, and it is only logical to do, given all the data we have gathered so far. Mike Mitchell can go cry whatever and wherever he wants.  

Launching and leading are 2 different things. Anyone that tackles he is going forward so they are going to duck before they rap their hands around someone. I honestly didn't see anything wrong with Shazier's hit the other night. He dove with his arms out hitting the opposing player with his helmet in the stomach area, not low or high. He didn't launch, he was just making a hit. I am not sure what these Defensive players can do any different at times?

[JaguarsWoman]

Regarding Deion Jones' hit on Alvin Kamara, the first helmet collision on that play was Kamara running into a Falcon - I forget who, probably Jones - who was standing in his way. I did not see Jones do anything dirty.

[chad72]

2 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Launching and leading are 2 different things. Anyone that tackles he is going forward so they are going to duck before they rap their hands around someone. I honestly didn't see anything wrong with Shazier's hit the other night. He dove with his arms out hitting the opposing player with his helmet in the stomach area, not low or high. He didn't launch, he was just making a hit. I am not sure what these Defensive players can do any different at times?

 

They never called a penalty for "launching with the helmet". They always say "leading with the helmet". If someone leads with the helmet, it should be a penalty. I can understand that there is a difference between Trevathan spearing DaVante Adams while he is wrapped by his teammate and yesterday's hit but leading with the helmet should be just as taboo, IMO. You have your shoulders, shoulder pads, elbows, arms etc. to take the runner or wide out down, the helmet is not for leading, it is for protection. Just my two cents. It will take a generation though for "heads up" tackling to show up at the next level. Of course, the assumption is they want to make the game safer.  

[JaguarsWoman]

2 hours ago, chad72 said:

They never called a penalty for "launching with the helmet". They always say "leading with the helmet". If someone leads with the helmet, it should be a penalty. I can understand that there is a difference between Trevathan spearing DaVante Adams while he is wrapped by his teammate and yesterday's hit but leading with the helmet should be just as taboo, IMO. You have your shoulders, shoulder pads, elbows, arms etc. to take the runner or wide out down, the helmet is not for leading, it is for protection. Just my two cents. It will take a generation though for "heads up" tackling to show up at the next level. Of course, the assumption is they want to make the game safer.

 

Just the fact that referees don't call it "launching" does not mean it is the same as leading. The NFL rulebook includes the difference with the word "flagrant" for what we call launching. Example A: Vontaze Burfict giving Antonio Brown two years ago in the playoffs. Odell Beckham hit Josh Norman the same way. Leading with the helmet is also a foul but it's iffy on the player's intent in some cases, unlike launching in a way that could get someone ejected.

 

It will not take that long for players to learn better tackling techniques. If you watch closely, you can clearly see often it is the other player having his head in the wrong position during a tackle attempt. Officials need to learn to recognize it instead of making assumptions about the defensive player's intent. I am all for player safety, but when this happens, it goes to far in that direction and ruins the game.

[2006Coltsbestever]

8 hours ago, JaguarsWoman said:

 

Just the fact that referees don't call it "launching" does not mean it is the same as leading. The NFL rulebook includes the difference with the word "flagrant" for what we call launching. Example A: Vontaze Burfict giving Antonio Brown two years ago in the playoffs. Odell Beckham hit Josh Norman the same way. Leading with the helmet is also a foul but it's iffy on the player's intent in some cases, unlike launching in a way that could get someone ejected.

 

It will not take that long for players to learn better tackling techniques. If you watch closely, you can clearly see often it is the other player having his head in the wrong position during a tackle attempt. Officials need to learn to recognize it instead of making assumptions about the defensive player's intent. I am all for player safety, but when this happens, it goes to far in that direction and ruins the game.

You actually described what I was thinking when it comes to launching and leading! Great Post.

[King Colt]

On ‎12‎/‎8‎/‎2017 at 6:18 AM, mikey287 said:

To answer the question in the title, the linked article seems to suggest: "no." As it is being termed as two 15-yard penalties

1+1=2

[ReMeDy]

Yikes, the NFL is such a stickler over their rule book. They better have a rule saying a dog can't play football.

[OffensivelyPC]

Penalties for over 15 yards already exist.

[crazycolt1]

10 hours ago, King Colt said:

1+1=2

It would not be a 30 yard penalty. It would be two separate 15 yard penalties called. What about that do you not understand?

[Nesjan3]

nfl really needs to evaluate the spot foul for PI, not look for more reason to penalize teams even more

[JaguarsWoman]

6 hours ago, OffensivelyPC said:

Penalties for over 15 yards already exist.

 

Only defensive pass interference (DPI) penalties are spot fouls.

 

False start: 5 yards from line of scrimmage.

Delay of game: 5 yards from the LOS.

Offside/netural zone: 5 yards from the LOS.

Offensive holding: 10 yards from the spot.

Defensive holding: 5 yards from the spot.

Block in the back: 10 yards rom the spot.

Illegal forward pass: 10 yards from the LOS.

Facemask: 15 yards from the end of the run.

Late hit: 15 yards from the end of the run.

Roughing the passer: 15 yards from the LOS.

 

What penalty is over 15 yards besides DPI?

[JaguarsWoman]

55 minutes ago, Nesjan3 said:

NFL really needs to evaluate the spot foul for PI, not look for more reason to penalize teams even more

 

I like spot fouls for DPI. Maybe they should evaluate the automatic first down for DPI where had the ball been caught it still would not have have had that result.

[crazycolt1]

23 minutes ago, JaguarsWoman said:

 

I like spot fouls for DPI. Maybe they should evaluate the automatic first down for DPI where had the ball been caught it still would not have have had that result.

I have a problem with it. Who is to say the receiver would have even caught the ball there? The spot foul just says the ball would have been caught there so let's put the ball there. No one can assume the receiver would have made the catch.

The NCAA realized this already.

[Nesjan3]

3 hours ago, JaguarsWoman said:

 

I like spot fouls for DPI. Maybe they should evaluate the automatic first down for DPI where had the ball been caught it still would not have have had that result.

Its the worst penalty in sports, your basically giving the receiver all the advantage and opportunity in the situation with all the rules against the defender, than if the defender breaks any of those rules in the slightest way to prevent the receiver from, key word ATTEMPTING to catch the ball, its automatically considered a catch at that spot on the field. So geared towards the offense and i understand the NFL wanting more scores and offensive highlights for created excitement blah blah blah but its really not fair. There is a pretty good reason most NFL players will tell you CB is the hardest position to play at a high level.

[OffensivelyPC]

14 hours ago, JaguarsWoman said:

 

Only defensive pass interference (DPI) penalties are spot fouls.

 

False start: 5 yards from line of scrimmage.

Delay of game: 5 yards from the LOS.

Offside/netural zone: 5 yards from the LOS.

Offensive holding: 10 yards from the spot.

Defensive holding: 5 yards from the spot.

Block in the back: 10 yards rom the spot.

Illegal forward pass: 10 yards from the LOS.

Facemask: 15 yards from the end of the run.

Late hit: 15 yards from the end of the run.

Roughing the passer: 15 yards from the LOS.

 

What penalty is over 15 yards besides DPI?

I was only alluding to DPI. OP's thread and title acted like they didn't already exist.