Allen and Fleener

[YOUR GM]

I understand your first point completely even if I disagree with the later portion. I was mostly responding because this sounded like yet another "Collinsworth is biased" post.

The problem with Fleener is that he is skinny and according to PFW's draft guide he may not be able to bulk up because of his back. He needs to be exceptional as a receiver to make his mark (using his height and leaping ability to keep the chains moving and score TDs, or busting the occasional big play like Dallas used to with regularity). I've seen one good pass play involving him so far in two games. I'm certainly not labeling him a failure, just waiting to see more. In the mean time the conversation was about blocking, and like it or not his was sub-par for a tight end. Personally I didn't like to see him drafted that high, and despite all the applause for the Colts foresight in doubling up at the tight end position, I can't help but wonder that if they had "known" that Allen would be available later whether they would have drafted him at all.

Hindsight is always 20/20. I wasn't a fan of the Fleener pick either (I wanted them to draft Cordy Glenn or Alshon Jeffrey) but he's a Colt now, so I'm going to give him a chance. TE is probably one of the hardest positions to transition into the pros with (after QB, DB and Center) You're essentially learning 2 (in our case 3-4, if you count their work at full/halfback) different positions as a receiver and an extension to the o-line. I don't think he'll ever be a great blocker but I can see him becoming serviceable in that area at some point.

I think I said right after he and Allen were drafted (and everyone immediately started saying Fleener's our Gronkowski), if we were anything at all similar to NE on offense, Fleener would obviously have to play the role of Hernandez with Allen being the Gronk.

I knew Allen would excel before Fleener. He was obviously the most polished TE out of college. Forget all the 40 times and measurables. Allen is a football player.....

[Boiler_Colt]

Both players are evolving young talents but I don't see either ever being pro-bowl talents. They will be heavy cogs to the offense for the next five years though. And for the record Fleener is small. He has no upper body build at all.

Wouldn't call him skinny here. Maybe you're expecting Schwarzenegger at TE?

http://www.google.com/imgres?num=10&hl=en&biw=1600&bih=1061&tbm=isch&tbnid=qTQGlKmxDfkK6M:&imgrefurl=http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2012/story/_/id/7820948/nfl-andrew-luck-david-decastro-jonathan-martin-coby-fleener-make-draft-day-historic-stanford-espn-magazine&docid=HNQzE-I8J5TrbM&imgurl=http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2012/0418/mag_ds_teamtree03_600.jpg&w=600&h=400&ei=rLQyUNuBPOjSygG30oCADw&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=1069&sig=106894090058878163716&page=1&tbnh=163&tbnw=217&start=0&ndsp=32&ved=1t:429,r:3,s:0,i:85&tx=75&ty=90

[Smitto]

-_- when Collinsworth said Fleeners was driven back on a early run play, he even says it when theyre showing the replay, Fleeners is already in the backfield and blocks his man.

No collinsworth was right, fleener got pushed back because of the way he took on his block.. he met him in the backfield but the block wasnt good regardless

[YOUR GM]

Sorry, but Fleener got bullied a couple times just trying to seal the outside. I'm fine with giving him all the time in the world, so no need to tell me to chill out, but it is what it is.

Guess I missed it then. Admittedly, I didn't catch every down he was in, but I thought he did ok (not great) from what I saw. I'll have to go back and re-watch

[JoKeR]

No collinsworth was right, fleener got pushed back because of the way he took on his block.. he met him in the backfield but the block wasnt good regardless

Maybe not but Collinsworth acted like Fleener's assignment made the tackle.

[smittywerb]

Small? 'scuse me? 6'-6" is small for an NBA Forward ... mebbe. At 252 lbs, he'll probably gain a couple ( to a dozen) pounds over his career.

Thats what I was referring to, his weight. Visually, he does not look that big either. He looks almost like a big WR. His height takes away from his weight, if you know what I mean.

[Smitto]

Maybe not but Collinsworth acted like Fleener's assignment made the tackle.

ehh idk, i cant remember the play i just know it wasnt a good block.

At least he's a better blocker than Dallas

[coltsfanatic24]

i would like to see fleener in the slot more so collie can go on the outside. fleener can take those big hits over the middle, he's 6'6 255 lbs. the reason why gronk, graham,davis never get concussions because the lb's know of how big and strong they are and fear of getting run over.

[schwamm]

i would like to see fleener in the slot more so collie can go on the outside. fleener can take those big hits over the middle, he's 6'6 255 lbs. the reason why gronk, graham,davis never get concussions because the lb's know of how big and strong they are and fear of getting run over.

Collie was the slot receiver on that play, but he's been playing more outside this year. They've been moving everyone around a lot, which excites me. Wayne has even lined up in the slot.

But to your point, yes they ought to try to protect Collie and his noggin more by keeping him out of the slot.

[zhubaba]

Didn't see this video posted anywhere. It has nice segments on both Luck and Allen. Interestingly, Pagano indicates near the end of the video that the Colts had Allen rated as the #1 tight-end in the draft.

[Superman]

Collie was the slot receiver on that play, but he's been playing more outside this year. They've been moving everyone around a lot, which excites me. Wayne has even lined up in the slot.

But to your point, yes they ought to try to protect Collie and his noggin more by keeping him out of the slot.

Collie was lined up wide to the left, all the way outside the numbers, on the play where he took the hit. He ran a post. Receivers have to come across the middle, whether they play the slot or not. Putting him on the outside isn't a protection.

[Mameluc]

back on topic...i know this will not be popular but i would think that it would have been a better idea taking allen with our 3rd and someone like janoris with our second or another CB. Allen seems more to me like a arians TE. but lets hope Fleener becomes our jimmy graham.

[schwamm]

Collie was lined up wide to the left, all the way outside the numbers, on the play where he took the hit. He ran a post. Receivers have to come across the middle, whether they play the slot or not. Putting him on the outside isn't a protection.

Should have said "may have been in the slot...". because I didn't take time to double check. I made an assumption based on previous posts.

Your comment about coming across the middle makes sense. Maybe Collie needs to wear an apparatus similar to a dune buggy roll cage...?

[Superman]

Should have said "may have been in the slot...". because I didn't take time to double check. I made an assumption based on previous posts.

Your comment about coming across the middle makes sense. Maybe Collie needs to wear an apparatus similar to a dune buggy roll cage...?

He played in 16 games and caught 54 passes last season, without incident. I don't think it's as big a deal as it's being made out to be. It's football; he's going to get hit, whether he plays wide out or slot. If he wants to completely eradicate any risk of suffering further brain injury, he should build a room in his home with padded walls, no hard furniture, and light fixtures recessed into the wall, and never leave that room. Sounds like a psych ward.

I'm being facetious. All I'm saying is that, if he's going to play, he's going to be at risk. He can play without suffering further damage, as last season showed, but the risk will never go away. I'd like to see him make his decision, and then see everyone involved support his decision.