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Jonathan Taylor comments on his contract/Request trade (Merge)


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10 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

This is for people that care to get the simplicity of the NO.

$2M is top pay for the last 5 SB Winners.

 Because, the $$$ is wisely spent elsewhere.

 For us, Richardson alone Devalues JT. 

  What a blast Richardson having 2 nice drives against Buffaloes D. Without our Te's, Smith, JT, and Steichen not using his push program on 4th down.

Steichen has a much better use for our $$$.

Genuine question, would you rather have JT on this team, or a WR who's contract is in the $12m range (assuming that is what it would take to sign JT- and thats on the higher end of the scale)?

Here is a list of WR's for roughly that money:

Corey Davis ($12.5m)
Hunter Renfrow ($15.8m)
Allen Lazard ($11m)
Jakobi Meyers ($11m)
Curtis Samuel ($11.5m)
An old Deandre Hopkins ($13m)
An old Odell Beckham Jr. ($15m)

like..... come on. And if we are looking at what the RB Market currently actually is - here is the WR's for $8m - roughly $10m

Zay Jones ($8m)
An old Adam Thielen ($8,3m)
JuJu Smith-Schuster ($8.5m)
Russell Gage ($8.5m)
An always hurt Tim Patrick ($10m)
An old Michael Thomas who hasnt played well in years ($10m)
Brandin can never stay with a team Cooks ($10m)
Marquez Valdez-Scantling ($10m)

Are you really telling me that JT isnt worth having as an offensive weapon over these guys? 

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18 minutes ago, Bravo said:


I agree to a certain extent. Now would be the time to pay JT because we have a rookie QB.

 

Although initial reports were saying JT and his agent were looking for the $15-18mil a year range which is high. Especially with the injuries and fumble problems last year.

 

So who’s to say the Colts haven’t offered 10mil and JT hasn’t accepted it because he believes his value should be higher.

 

I believe the Franchise tag would be $10mil next year and $12mil the second year which is fair value but it helps the Colts because they aren’t held into a long term deal.

This could well be true. JT just needs to realise that isnt what the RB market is.... whether that is fair or not isnt really the point (personally i think RBs are being completely screwed over, but thats also besides the point).

He is worth whatever people are willing to pay him. I could go tell my boss i think I'm worth double my salary as well, doesnt mean i'll get it. He is sour and upset, and i get it, he will just need to realise he isnt going to get what he wants, the only question remaining is have all of the bridges between him and the colts been burnt in the process of that? If they have, thats a massive shame, and it will be his own fault for handling this so poorly. 

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33 minutes ago, Chucklez said:

Genuine question, would you rather have JT on this team, or a WR who's contract is in the $12m range (assuming that is what it would take to sign JT- and thats on the higher end of the scale)?

Here is a list of WR's for roughly that money:

Corey Davis ($12.5m)
Hunter Renfrow ($15.8m)
Allen Lazard ($11m)
Jakobi Meyers ($11m)
Curtis Samuel ($11.5m)
An old Deandre Hopkins ($13m)
An old Odell Beckham Jr. ($15m)

like..... come on. And if we are looking at what the RB Market currently actually is - here is the WR's for $8m - roughly $10m

Zay Jones ($8m)
An old Adam Thielen ($8,3m)
JuJu Smith-Schuster ($8.5m)
Russell Gage ($8.5m)
An always hurt Tim Patrick ($10m)
An old Michael Thomas who hasnt played well in years ($10m)
Brandin can never stay with a team Cooks ($10m)
Marquez Valdez-Scantling ($10m)

Are you really telling me that JT isnt worth having as an offensive weapon over these guys? 

I'd rather pay Miles Sanders the $6.35m he just got save the $6-8m on JT and put the money saved into a RG.

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Just now, Solid84 said:

I'd rather pay Miles Sanders the $6.35m he just got save the $6-8m on JT and put the money saved into a RG.

This logic doesnt track either. Its not like we didnt sign a RG free agent because we were worried about a $4m difference on Taylors' contact vs other RBs that we could have.... You do realise that if we signed Taylor to say a $12m per year contract, his contract (as a huge offensive weapon/piece for us) would only work out to use up 5% of our entire cap space?

And oh by the way, the NFL cap is only projected to increase from the curretn $224.8m this eason to $256m in 2024, and then again to $282m in 2025. These are projections, but thats a pretty strong projection.

And on top of ALL of that, we have a QB on a rookie contract, so there is even MORE cap space for our team to throw around.

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1 minute ago, Chucklez said:

This logic doesnt track either. Its not like we didnt sign a RG free agent because we were worried about a $4m difference on Taylors' contact vs other RBs that we could have.... You do realise that if we signed Taylor to say a $12m per year contract, his contract (as a huge offensive weapon/piece for us) would only work out to use up 5% of our entire cap space?

And oh by the way, the NFL cap is only projected to increase from the curretn $224.8m this eason to $256m in 2024, and then again to $282m in 2025. These are projections, but thats a pretty strong projection.

And on top of ALL of that, we have a QB on a rookie contract, so there is even MORE cap space for our team to throw around.

Having cap space doesn't mean you overpay for players. The difference between an elite RB and a good RB is minimal (15-25% production) while the pay difference will be huge if JT gets 12+ per year. It's a waste of money better spent elsewhere.

 

Also we have Pitt's contract extension coming up and depending on how he does this year it could be around 20m - that eats a lot of our cap space.

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9 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

Having cap space doesn't mean you overpay for players. The difference between an elite RB and a good RB is minimal (15-25% production) while the pay difference will be huge if JT gets 12+ per year. It's a waste of money better spent elsewhere.

 

Also we have Pitt's contract extension coming up and depending on how he does this year it could be around 20m - that eats a lot of our cap space.

It really just boils down to what people think is an overpay on how they feel about extending JT. Some have different opinions on it. I personally wouldn't pay him more than 13 Mill a year/but would pay him 13, and it would only be for 3 years which equals out to 39 Mill. Maybe 25 Mill guaranteed and to me that is a hell of a contract for a RB with the way things are going for RB's. Paying him for only 3 years locks him up through his prime. He is only 24, still has great speed, and is a great HR hitter. He is a great guy off the field as well, does a lot for the community.

 

Some people may think 13 mill is an overpay (I don't), that is their opinion. 

 

 

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30 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

I'd rather pay Miles Sanders the $6.35m he just got save the $6-8m on JT and put the money saved into a RG.

Absolutely agree

 

The RG play has been glaring and pathetic

 

There should be 2-3 mid range players available to trade for or FA

 

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

It really just boils down to what people think is an overpay on how they feel about extending JT. Some have different opinions on it. I personally wouldn't pay him more than 13 Mill a year/but would pay him 13, and it would only be for 3 years which equals out to 39 Mill. Maybe 25 Mill guaranteed and to me that is a hell of a contract for a RB with the way things are going for RB's. Paying him for only 3 years locks him up through his prime. He is only 24, still has great speed, and is a great HR hitter. He is a great guy off the field as well, does a lot for the community.

 

Some people may think 13 mill is an overpay (I don't), that is their opinion. 

 

 

I just don't get the reasoning behind your 13 mill offer?

 

Miles Sanders just got 6.35 mill - he had 1269 yards and 11 TDs on 259 carries.

Jamaal Williams got 4 mill - 1066 yards and 17 TDs on 262 carries.

 

Why is it fine to give JT double or triple pay?

 

Comparing Williams and Sanders stats to JT's '21 season and normalising for carries (332) you get:

Williams: 332 carries 1351 yards and 21-22 TDs

Sanders: 332 carries 1614 yards and 14 TDs

JT: 332 carries 1811 and 18 TDs

 

Why is JT worth that much more? You realise for that money you could have BOTH Williams and Sanders for LESS (10.35 mill) than what you want to pay JT?

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18 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

I just don't get the reasoning behind your 13 mill offer?

 

Miles Sanders just got 6.35 mill - he had 1269 yards and 11 TDs on 259 carries.

Jamaal Williams got 4 mill - 1066 yards and 17 TDs on 262 carries.

 

Why is it fine to give JT double or triple pay?

 

Comparing Williams and Sanders stats to JT's '21 season and normalising for carries (332) you get:

Williams: 332 carries 1351 yards and 21-22 TDs

Sanders: 332 carries 1614 yards and 14 TDs

JT: 332 carries 1811 and 18 TDs

 

Why is JT worth that much more? You realise for that money you could have BOTH Williams and Sanders for LESS (10.35 mill) than what you want to pay JT?

Let me ask you a question and be honest, do you think Philly wins the SB if they had JT instead of their RB committee? We are talking 2021 healthy JT who was a scary presence you had to account for on every play.

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1 hour ago, Chucklez said:

Genuine question, would you rather have JT on this team, or a WR who's contract is in the $12m range (assuming that is what it would take to sign JT- and thats on the higher end of the scale)?

Here is a list of WR's for roughly that money:

Corey Davis ($12.5m)
Hunter Renfrow ($15.8m)
Allen Lazard ($11m)
Jakobi Meyers ($11m)
Curtis Samuel ($11.5m)
An old Deandre Hopkins ($13m)
An old Odell Beckham Jr. ($15m)

like..... come on. And if we are looking at what the RB Market currently actually is - here is the WR's for $8m - roughly $10m

Zay Jones ($8m)
An old Adam Thielen ($8,3m)
JuJu Smith-Schuster ($8.5m)
Russell Gage ($8.5m)
An always hurt Tim Patrick ($10m)
An old Michael Thomas who hasnt played well in years ($10m)
Brandin can never stay with a team Cooks ($10m)
Marquez Valdez-Scantling ($10m)

Are you really telling me that JT isnt worth having as an offensive weapon over these guys? 

No one is saying JT isn’t worth having as a weapon. But the market drives value. And the market isn’t supportive of a 15 million plus a year RB. 

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30 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

It really just boils down to what people think is an overpay on how they feel about extending JT. Some have different opinions on it. I personally wouldn't pay him more than 13 Mill a year/but would pay him 13, and it would only be for 3 years which equals out to 39 Mill. Maybe 25 Mill guaranteed and to me that is a hell of a contract for a RB with the way things are going for RB's. Paying him for only 3 years locks him up through his prime. He is only 24, still has great speed, and is a great HR hitter. He is a great guy off the field as well, does a lot for the community.

 

Some people may think 13 mill is an overpay (I don't), that is their opinion. 

 

 

No it boils down to what the LEAGUE feels is overpaying. And with other game changing RBs barely sniffing 10 mil per, that says enough right there

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26 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

Absolutely agree

 

The RG play has been glaring and pathetic

 

There should be 2-3 mid range players available to trade for or FA

 

 

 

 

I’m thinking they might try to trade Cox for a player at cut down.  Maybe OL or CB.  Safety seems set now.  OL depth is concerning to me.

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Just now, richard pallo said:

I’m thinking they might try to trade Cox for a player at cut down.  Maybe OL or CB.  Safety seems set now.  OL depth is concerning to me.

Maybe if JT was healthy, I’d consider a trade for a stud at RG….

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Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Let me ask you a question and be honest, do you think Philly wins the SB if they JT instead of their RB committee? We are talking 2021 healthy JT who was a scary presence you had to account for on every play.

Nope, of course not. Take away his homeruns and he's just another guy. Look how he did last year when teams knew how to handle him.

 

First 4 games before his injury:

 

81 carries 328 yards and 1 TD.

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1 minute ago, csmopar said:

Maybe if JT was healthy, I’d consider a trade for a stud at RG….

A stud RG is going to be expensive.  Many consider our OL already overpaid.  If they want to try and get a stud RG okay but we already have a stud LG.  You can’t pay them all top dollar.  I think they are hoping Fries can handle the job.  So far so good I think.  The next two preseason games should be telling.

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2 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

A stud RG is going to be expensive.  Many consider our OL already overpaid.  If they want to try and get a stud RG okay but we already have a stud LG.  You can’t pay them all top dollar.  I think they are hoping Fries can handle the job.  So far so good I think.  The next two preseason games should be telling.

Oh I know.  But that’s my entire point.

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4 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

To the people talking about trading Taylor for a stud RG, would you trade him straight up for Zach Martin if Taylor returns healthy before the season?

I think Martin is a bit too old for that to be a straight up trade. I'd love to have him on the team though.

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1 minute ago, csmopar said:

Maybe if JT was healthy, I’d consider a trade for a stud at RG….

 

That's just it. Some posters here think the conversation is about JT being 'worth it'. The conversation is, "Is any running back worth it' in the 2023 version of the NFL (and if yes, how much); and is JT a stud RB anymore. He's young, but that doesn't mean he still has the physical ability to produce at an elite level. That is the gamble.

 

The Colts have consistently said (over and over, in lockstep):

  • They LOVE Jonathon Taylor
  • They believe it is necessary to pay their 'special' players
  • They haven't discussed extensions with any player this off season because they have a new coach and a new system
  • They are willing to discuss an extension during the season. This season. But they have to know first if the player fits into what they are doing now.

All of this is reasonable and is great news for Jonathon Taylor. The Colts are likely to overpay for a running back's services, this year, if he would get on the program. Or, is he hurt, and can't perform (does he know this and this is what this is all about)?

 

REMEMBER: This isn't a free agent negotiation. This is a player who is already on contract with the team and is expected, is contractually obligated, to play football for this team. That is, unless he cannot perform or until the team decides they can and should trade him for something.

 

Mr. Taylor, can you perform your contractual obligations this season? If not, how do you expect to be traded; and/or how do you anticipate being able to earn a new, longer contract?

 

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28 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Let me ask you a question and be honest, do you think Philly wins the SB if they had JT instead of their RB committee? We are talking 2021 healthy JT who was a scary presence you had to account for on every play.

Problem is the other team that did win the game had a RBBC as well so it's not the greatest argument for having a JT with a high salary.

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33 minutes ago, csmopar said:

No one is saying JT isn’t worth having as a weapon. But the market drives value. And the market isn’t supportive of a 15 million plus a year RB. 

This is exactly my point. He won't cost $15m a year because no one will pay him that. But he is definitely worth up to $10m a year.

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And before anyone chimes in with "no RB is worth $10m a year" - yeah.... they are. That's just the premium you pay for an elite RB. Which JT is, so long as he is healthy - if he is cleared and healthy, i have no problem paying him $10m a year for 3 years - maybe somthing like $23m of which is guaranteed.

 image.png.b0f951a9bfb720be2c1a3a3983dbdf9e.png

Edit: this screenshot came out very small, copied text here:
 

RANK    PLAYER                      TEAM           2023 SALARY

1            Bijan Robinson            Falcons         $13.72M

2            Christian McCaffrey     49ers            $12M

t-3         Alvin Kamara                Saints          $11M

t-3         Saquon Barkley            Giants          $11M

5            Aaron Jones                 Packers        $10.96M

6            Nick Chubb                  Browns        $10.85M

7            Jahmyr Gibbs               Lions            $10.73M

8            Derrick Henry               Titans          $10.5M

9            Tony Pollard                 Cowboys      $10.09M

10          Dalvin Cook                 Jets               $8.6M

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I'm fine if we can find a happy medium with JT, but let's also remember that the Colts only Super Bowl win during the Manning years did not include a JT type, Edgerrin James type runner. It was more of a 1,2 punch between Addai and Rhodes..  A running back has value but it's the easiest piece on the offense to replace without taking major bite out of the attack.

 

The QB, the OL, and the WR corps are more critical. Heck the Patriots never dish out big money at RB or WR. They only spend at QB and OL.  I think a RBBC allows you to be more diverse and gives teams more tendencies to prepare for.

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3 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

That other team has arguably a top 5 QB of all-time and a top 10 Coach of all-time. 

He hasn't always been that, but RBBC has always been his model. The QB, the OL, and in some cases WR are your bigger pay offs. RBBC has always been the Patriots model as well.

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9 minutes ago, krunk said:

He hasn't always been that, but RBBC has always been his model. The QB, the OL, and in some cases WR are your bigger pay offs.

What I keep trying to explain to people, you can go RB committee if you have an all-time great QB. Hurts is great but isn't even a top 50 QB of all-time, he has a ways to go before that. Give anyone Brady, Montana, Manning, Elway, Rodgers, Brees, Mahomes and one could have RB's that are just above average to good at times. Some say teams with RB by committee has won SB's over the last 9 years, no kidding - look at the QB's that won. Brady has won 4 of those, Mahomes 2 of those, and Manning 1 of those. In 2013, without Lynch, Seattle doesn't win a SB or get 2 straight SB's and Wilson was a great QB.

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I would give Taylor a one year, $10 million deal if he was fully healthy and it got him to play this year. That would make things flexible from both sides. He might want to re-sign with us if we do this and he performs, and we could always trade him at the deadline if the team is struggling for a day 2 pick next year. 

 

I wouldn't offer a multi-year contract though unless it was $8 million a year or something.

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Just now, Jared Cisneros said:

I would give Taylor a one year, $10 million deal if he was fully healthy and it got him to play this year. That would make things flexible from both sides. He might want to re-sign with us if we do this if he performs, and we could always trade him at the deadline if the team is struggling for a day 2 pick next year. 

 

I wouldn't offer a multi-year contract though unless it was $8 million a year or something.

He will never do that, if he did it would shock me.

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Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

He will never do that, if he did it would shock me.

Probably not, but my reasoning behind this is that Zeke signed for $6 million a year, and Cook signed for $8 million a year. Maybe it showed Taylor he's not worth as much as he thinks.

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16 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

What I keep trying to explain to people, you can go RB committee if you have an all-time great QB. Hurts is great but isn't even a top 50 QB of all-time, he has a ways to go before that. Give anyone Brady, Montana, Manning, Elway, Rodgers, Brees, Mahomes and one could have RB's that are just above average to good at times. Some say teams with RB by committee has won SB's over the last 9 years, no kidding - look at the QB's that won. Brady has won 4 of those, Mahomes 2 of those, and Manning 1 of those. In 2013, without Lynch, Seattle doesn't win a SB or get 2 straight SB's and Wilson was a great QB.

Seattles defense was the bigger lynch pin though bc that's what allowed Seattles offense to play that style of football. If they were not good then that would have forced young Russel Wilson to be more of a passer. And that does what to Lynch value?  

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16 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Probably not, but my reasoning behind this is that Zeke signed for $6 million a year, and Cook signed for $8 million a year. Maybe it showed Taylor he's not worth as much as he thinks.

There should be no scenario where a RB is paid 10mil coming off surgery without a prove it season. If you pay him now and he is a shell of himself you have another Leonard, Kelly, Smith scenario...now if he plays out his contract like he said he had no problems doing and has a repeat season of 2021 then negations like that begin. We have a lot of money tied into a questionable Oline that is more important for our future than 1 RB.

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1 minute ago, TimetobringDfence! said:

There should be no scenario where a RB is paid 10mil coming off surgery without a prove it season. If you pay him now and he is a shell of himself you have another Leonard, Kelly, Smith scenario...now if he plays out his contract like he said he had no problems doing and has a repeat season of 2021 then negations like that begin. We have a lot of money tied into a questionable Oline that is more important for our future than 1 RB.

I said I'd sign him for one year for $10 million. How is that another Leonard, Kelly, or Smith scenario? You would literally have him off the books at the end of the year.

 

I did say I'd sign him to a multi-year contract for $8 million a year, which is slightly more than Miles Sanders, and equal to Dalvin Cook.

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12 minutes ago, TimetobringDfence! said:

There should be no scenario where a RB is paid 10mil coming off surgery without a prove it season. If you pay him now and he is a shell of himself you have another Leonard, Kelly, Smith scenario...now if he plays out his contract like he said he had no problems doing and has a repeat season of 2021 then negations like that begin. We have a lot of money tied into a questionable Oline that is more important for our future than 1 RB.

The surgery he had was an ankle procedure done back in January that takes 2 months to heal. 

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34 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

If Taylor agrees to that, I would hope nobody in here would ever say another bad word about him because that is steal for us. 

 

Not really.  Technically Colts shouldn't have to do anything given that he is already on contract to play for $4 million.

 

Paying him an extra 6 million just to get him to honor his contract is a steal for Taylor.

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