Quenton Nelson Poll

[DougDew]

17 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I disagree. I'd be open to a trade, but letting him walk over a small percentage of the cap would be a mistake.

 

As for the conversation about roster composition and cap management, sure, that's a discussion that gets retread and reworked every few weeks around here. But we are what we are, and we have who we have right now. The goal is to maximize the current roster, and if we see that the ceiling isn't high enough, I'm all for drastically changing the composition. But I'm not letting Nelson walk without getting a major yield in return. 

Yeah, I was planning on saying the same thing myself.  Discussions of Nelson and at what price usually trigger thoughts about what else we could be buying with that money.  Its a discussion I'm growing tired of.

 

I'm more interested in watchin the new players at the positions that will finally get us past the 5 years of delayed gratification roster build nonsense we've endured as fans.   I want to see Pierce at Z, Campbell (sort of new if he stays healthy) at slot, our more dynamic TE in Woods, our two third round (not first round) safeties (coming back from injury), and of course our pick 17 DE and his rotational (mid priced) FA partner Yannick.  And of course our (most likely) upgrade at QB who won't try to play hero ball and do it all himself, like Wentz and Luck did.   Along with continued contributions from JT and Pitt.  And Pryor needs to hold up.

 

I'm more interested in following all of the changes being made at the important positions.  Which will undoubtedly allow many to say how much Nelson contributed to our greater success even though he is one of the few players who have been here all 5 years.

 

 

 

[DougDew]

10 hours ago, J@son said:

 

The NT usually isn't but there are more athletic 3 techs coming into the league every year

I didn't see the entire game last night, but how many times did Donald sack Allen?  It looked like Allen was avoiding the sack by staying in the pocket to deliver the ball about 2 seconds after the snap (instead of running around holding the ball for 5) while Donald was going up against non pro bowl linemen.

[jvan1973]

58 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I didn't see the entire game last night, but how many times did Donald sack Allen?  It looked like Allen was avoiding the sack by staying in the pocket to deliver the ball about 2 seconds after the snap (instead of running around holding the ball for 5) while Donald was going up against non pro bowl linemen.

Donald had 1 sack.  Roger Saffold and Dion Dawkins were pro bowlers last year. 

[Nickster]

32 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I didn't see the entire game last night, but how many times did Donald sack Allen?  It looked like Allen was avoiding the sack by staying in the pocket to deliver the ball about 2 seconds after the snap (instead of running around holding the ball for 5) while Donald was going up against non pro bowl linemen.

 

He was running away from him.   Allen is a force in there, and largely negated an absolutely dominant performance by Donald.  With a guy with Allen's athleticism, Donald's presence is somewhat mitigated because he can simply break containment and get outside the box for chunks of yards.   BUFF also started helping inside with doubles and chips, etc.  

 

 

On the other side of the ball it was a different story, Miller was flying around the end all night and the extra attention he drew likely helped this 3T/1T dude (don't remember his name) get rush inside too.  It was a bloodbath for Stafford.  They also got almost nothing rushing it. 

[shasta519]

2 hours ago, Nickster said:

 

He was running away from him.   Allen is a force in there, and largely negated an absolutely dominant performance by Donald.  With a guy with Allen's athleticism, Donald's presence is somewhat mitigated because he can simply break containment and get outside the box for chunks of yards.   BUFF also started helping inside with doubles and chips, etc.  

 

 

On the other side of the ball it was a different story, Miller was flying around the end all night and the extra attention he drew likely helped this 3T/1T dude (don't remember his name) get rush inside too.  It was a bloodbath for Stafford.  They also got almost nothing rushing it. 

 

Josh Allen is the prototype. Can't wait until we have a young QB like that that we can dream on.

 

Part of what makes him so good is the mobility...but he's going to need take better care of himself out there or he will get hurt.  

[DougDew]

2 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

Donald had 1 sack.  Roger Saffold and Dion Dawkins were pro bowlers last year. 

Donald was going against Bates and Brown, the right side of the Bills Oline, alot.  He got one sack off of Bates early in the game.

[Nickster]

2 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

Josh Allen is the prototype. Can't wait until we have a young QB like that that we can dream on.

 

Part of what makes him so good is the mobility...but he's going to need take better care of himself out there or he will get hurt.  

He certainly takes more RB type hits than I'd like to see if I was a fan of the Bills. 

 

Walter Payton always talked about being the one that applies the lick rather than absorbing it as a reason why he was able to stay healthy so long.  

 

O boy Allen seems to employ that theory, lol. 

[DougDew]

2 hours ago, Nickster said:

He was running away from him.   Allen is a force in there, and largely negated an absolutely dominant performance by Donald.  With a guy with Allen's athleticism, Donald's presence is somewhat mitigated because he can simply break containment and get outside the box for chunks of yards.   BUFF also started helping inside with doubles and chips, etc. 

I must have watched a different game for the first three quarters, when the Bills got up up 31 to 10.  Josh Allen stood like a statue and got rid of the ball before Donald even took his 4th step.   It didn't matter if Donald was being blocked or not....at all... because the ball was gone.  Allen had some runs, and had some rollouts, but even Collinsworth said that it looked like he was watching Tom Brady stand there and release the ball exactly where it needed to go with a 2.2 second snap to release time.

 

Point being is that Donald was neutralized by a talented QB and receivers knowing what they were doing more so than the talent level of the OGs.

[DougDew]

2 hours ago, Nickster said:

On the other side of the ball it was a different story, Miller was flying around the end all night and the extra attention he drew likely helped this 3T/1T dude (don't remember his name) get rush inside too.  It was a bloodbath for Stafford.  They also got almost nothing rushing it. 

Collinsworth also mentioned this.  And noted that the LAR were going to miss the presence of an EDGE rusher.  Almost saying that the success of the interior 3T is influenced by the presence of a talented EDGE  more so than the EDGE being influenced by the talent level of an interior DT.

 

And we observe that Stafford was struggling and Allen was well protected (for as long as he needed to be to release the ball).

 

What I saw last night was positional value being demonstrated all over the field.

[Nickster]

3 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I must have watched a different game for the first three quarters, when the Bills got up up 31 to 10.  Josh Allen stood like a statue and got rid of the ball before Donald even took his 4th step.   It didn't matter if Donald was being blocked or not....at all... because the ball was gone.  Allen had some runs, and had some rollouts, but even Collinsworth said that it looked like he was watching Tom Brady stand there and release the ball exactly where it needed to go with a 2.2 second snap to release time.

 

Point being is that Donald was neutralized by a talented QB and receivers knowing what they were doing more so than the talent level of the OGs.

 

He was sidestepping AD in the first half too quite a bit.  I don't know I saw quite a few runs mixed in with some quick hitters as well as several downfield intermediate type of throws.

 

But Donald was definitely minimized after the 1st Q.  I thought Allen's runs and movement in the pocket were the difference, but he also had open dudes before 10 yards seemingly every play too. 

 

 

[Nickster]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

Collinsworth also mentioned this.  And noted that the LAR were going to miss the presence of an EDGE rusher.  Almost saying that the success of the interior 3T is influenced by the presence of a talented EDGE  more so than the EDGE being influenced by the talent level of an interior DT.

 

And we observe that Stafford was struggling and Allen was well protected (for as long as he needed to be to release the ball).

 

What I saw last night was positional value being demonstrated all over the field.

 

Me too Dougie.  And I am a huge AD fan, but there are certain offenses that can neutralize any DTs presence.  Miller had that nose/1T type reeking havoc along with him too. 

[DougDew]

26 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

Me too Dougie.  And I am a huge AD fan, but there are certain offenses that can neutralize any DTs presence.  Miller had that nose/1T type reeking havoc along with him too. 

Well, these discussion can be retreads.  I'm not interested in Nelson achieving the difference in a 65 PFF rating or a 79 PFF rating as much as I am in Ryan, Pierce, Campbell, Woods, Pryor, Cross, Blackmon, Paye, Yannick doing so.   These players are either new to the team or are returning from injury.  It will be fun watching players who have the potential to make a difference.

 

 

[Nickster]

12 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Well, these discussion can be retreads.  I'm not interested in Nelson achieving the difference in a 65 PFF rating or a 79 PFF rating as much as I am in Ryan, Pierce, Campbell, Woods, Pryor, Cross, Blackmon, Paye, Yannick doing so.   These players are either new to the team or are returning from injury.  It will be fun watching players who have the potential to make a difference.

 

 

 

I'd say about 1 month from Sunday, we will have a good idea of how the plan is working.  

[EastStreet]

6 hours ago, Nickster said:

 

I'd say about 1 month from Sunday, we will have a good idea of how the plan is working.  

Will do weekly PFF updates like last year... 

 

Guess?

and @DougDew

 

[Moosejawcolt]

On 9/8/2022 at 12:14 PM, Solid84 said:

Just some thoughts:

 

We already have the most expensive OL in the game and paying Q is just going to skew that even more. 

With the money we spend on OL they should be at least top 10, but we’re seeing people on here who say they would be fine with an average group. Yeah no thanks. 

 

Putting more money into the OL takes away from other position groups and we have weaknesses in other places too. Ironically our OL is already at least questionable, but paying Q won’t make it better. So we’re going to spend more? Draft a couple of guys who need 2-3 seasons to get going?

 

I think Ryan Kelly is playing for his job this season, because he sticks out as a guy who’s too expensive for what he brings. 
 

Also, with the way this contract situation is dragging out with Q, could his agent be trying to reset the market for OL, like it happened with WRs?
 

 

That has been my argument all along.  It's not just Q. This Oline is severely over paid based on their play on the field. Lets say we pay Q 19 million. We have Kelly under contract and Smith making big money. What happens if Rainmann and Pryor bust out. Where do we get the money to go after a LT next year if needed? That has been my argument in extending Nelson. We are paying big money on a center, RT and soon to be LG. Yet, the Colts still haven't found the most expensive and most important piece a LT

[Moosejawcolt]

On 9/8/2022 at 4:20 PM, EastStreet said:

 

I'm not worried now..... especially about Nelson....

 

but... 

Total #3 - $191.9M

OL #1 - $45.8M 

DL #3 - $50.9M (#1 KC 55.8M) - better see sacks lol

 

We need Pryor play good. And we need Raimann to develop. 

 

We're spending $$ on OL and DL, and we should expect #10+ protection (pass OL), and #10+ sacks (DL)... 

 

Next year... maybe.... 

LT Raimann

LG Nelson

C Pinter

RG Pryor

RT Smith

Actually it kind of screws the team if Pryor  plays lights out. This is an audition for him; a one year audition. He will be to expensive if he plays well.  That's why I would not sign Nelson this year. If Pryor establishes himself as a LT, I know who I would pay.

[EastStreet]

30 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Actually it kind of screws the team if Pryor  plays lights out. This is an audition for him; a one year audition. He will be to expensive if he plays well.  That's why I would not sign Nelson this year. If Pryor establishes himself as a LT, I know who I would pay.

 

Not worried now. 

If Pryor plays good, great. And Raimann emerges/develops, great. Good troubles.. 

Just need one be good. If two are good, awesome.... flexibility, and cheap. 

 

And need Pinter be good. Either RG or C.

 

Hoping Kelly plays good this year. Decline a few years. If he's meh, Pinter likely C next year. 

[throwing BBZ]

38 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Actually it kind of screws the team if Pryor  plays lights out. This is an audition for him; a one year audition. He will be to expensive if he plays well.  That's why I would not sign Nelson this year. If Pryor establishes himself as a LT, I know who I would pay.

 

 Actually you see it ALL Wrong. Surprise.

 If he grades out 75 even 80 he will sign elsewhere for lots of $ and we get a nice 4th rounder for him. 

 Raimann is starting no later than next year oh yee of no faith. Being 2 steps behind all the time must be a real riot.

[throwing BBZ]

54 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

That has been my argument all along.  It's not just Q. This Oline is severely over paid based on their play on the field. Lets say we pay Q 19 million. We have Kelly under contract and Smith making big money. What happens if Rainmann and Pryor bust out. Where do we get the money to go after a LT next year if needed? That has been my argument in extending Nelson. We are paying big money on a center, RT and soon to be LG. Yet, the Colts still haven't found the most expensive and most important piece a LT

 

 YOU don't see well. Our LT will cost about $1.2M each of the next three YEARS.
  Stop worrying,  maybe it's just over your head. Just figure Kelly gone after this season. Pinter costs about $1.6M. Fries or a nice draft pick can play RG. It's so simple.

 We know, the boys MUST have something to complain about ALL the time unhappily sitting bored in their basement eating cheetos. I'm a pretzel with peanut butter inside guy myself.  

[Moosejawcolt]

3 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 YOU don't see well. Our LT will cost about $1.2M each of the next three YEARS.
  Stop worrying,  maybe it's just over your head. Just figure Kelly gone after this season. Pinter costs about $1.6M. Fries or a nice draft pick can play RG. It's so simple.

 We know, the boys MUST have something to complain about ALL the time unhappily sitting bored in their basement eating cheetos. I'm a pretzel with peanut butter inside guy myself.  

Where do u get the 1.2 for the next 3 years?

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Actually it kind of screws the team if Pryor  plays lights out. This is an audition for him; a one year audition. He will be to expensive if he plays well.  That's why I would not sign Nelson this year. If Pryor establishes himself as a LT, I know who I would pay.

Goodness Gracious….  If Pryor plays great odds are he’ll roughly double his salary….. from 5.5m to $11-12m, whether it’s 1, 2 or 3 years.   That type of salary has no bearing on Nelson whether he gets $18, 19 or 20m.   Not one bit.  
 

Nelson can get his money and so can Pryor.   If money became tight we can look at Kelly for relief.    We’ve been talking about this all off-season.   Your arguments are not only wrong, they’re old and outdated. 

[Moosejawcolt]

26 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 Actually you see it ALL Wrong. Surprise.

 If he grades out 75 even 80 he will sign elsewhere for lots of $ and we get a nice 4th rounder for him. 

 Raimann is starting no later than next year oh yee of no faith. Being 2 steps behind all the time must be a real 

So Rainmann will start next year? Thr guy hasn't played a game snap in thr nfl

[Moosejawcolt]

38 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

Not worried now. 

If Pryor plays good, great. And Raimann emerges/develops, great. Good troubles.. 

Just need one be good. If two are good, awesome.... flexibility, and cheap. 

 

And need Pinter be good. Either RG or C.

 

Hoping Kelly plays good this year. Decline a few years. If he's meh, Pinter likely C next year. 

Ao let's say Pruor balls out and Raimann and Pinter bust?

[Moosejawcolt]

2 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Goodness Gracious….  If Pryor plays great odds are he’ll roughly double his salary….. from 5.5m to $11-12m, whether it’s 1, 2 or 3 years.   That type of salary has no bearing on Nelson whether he gets $18, 19 or 20m.   Not one bit.  
 

Nelson can get his money and so can Pryor.   If money became tight we can look at Kelly for relief.    We’ve been talking about this all off-season.   Your arguments are not only wrong, they’re old and outdated. 

U think if Pryor plays well we double hai salary? Lt is a premium position. He plays well and he is making way more than 10 mill

[NewColtsFan]

Just now, Moosejawcolt said:

U think if Pryor plays well we double hai salary? Lt is a premium position. He plays well and he is making way more than 10 mill

Not based on one year.   Maybe he gets 12 or 13?    He’d have to grade thru the roof to get a salary that is triple of his 2022 number.   And at that point, if he’s that good, that’s a nice problem to have.   Trade Kelly, slide Pinter to C and maybe Raimann goes to RG. 
 

Either way,  too much talent is a good thing, not bad. 

[EastStreet]

55 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Ao let's say Pruor balls out and Raimann and Pinter bust?

Who knows?

I'll worried if Pryor sucks. 

Pinter played good at C.

And RG, don't know. 

The season starts.... we'll see soon. 

 

Play calling worries me more... lol

[throwing BBZ]

22 hours ago, Nickster said:

 

He was sidestepping AD in the first half too quite a bit.  I don't know I saw quite a few runs mixed in with some quick hitters as well as several downfield intermediate type of throws.

 

But Donald was definitely minimized after the 1st Q.  I thought Allen's runs and movement in the pocket were the difference, but he also had open dudes before 10 yards seemingly every play too. 

 

 

 

 Gee, i too watched a different game than you.

 Buffalo receivers were not open hardly at all early in the game.
 Allen was throwing bbz into tiny windows time after time.

  They made some very good catches, but it goes bad quick when you bobble them. lol

[Moosejawcolt]

13 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Not based on one year.   Maybe he gets 12 or 13?    He’d have to grade thru the roof to get a salary that is triple of his 2022 number.   And at that point, if he’s that good, that’s a nice problem to have.   Trade Kelly, slide Pinter to C and maybe Raimann goes to RG. 
 

Either way,  too much talent is a good thing, not bad. 

Well u r assuming Pinter and Rainmann are talented. The season shall reveal juat ioe good they are

 

[NewColtsFan]

22 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Well u r assuming Pinter and Rainmann are talented. The season shall reveal juat ioe good they are

 

Pinter played both guard and center and played them both well.   We let Glow walk.  So yes, I think Pinter is good, becayse the team does too.   And the team thinks Raimann is good as well.   We likely won’t see much this year, but probably much more next year.  
 

I don’t think my assumptions are unreasonable.  

[Nickster]

3 hours ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 Gee, i too watched a different game than you.

 Buffalo receivers were not open hardly at all early in the game.
 Allen was throwing bbz into tiny windows time after time.

  They made some very good catches, but it goes bad quick when you bobble them. lol

Doesn’t surprise me when you see things wrong Bebes.  You generally have no idea what you are looking at lol. Rewatch and you will see.

[richard pallo]

I am truly surprised we did not sign Q before the 1st game.  It looks like both sides are really dug in.  It’s anybody's guess on how this turns out.   

[EastStreet]

42 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

I am truly surprised we did not sign Q before the 1st game.  It looks like both sides are really dug in.  It’s anybody's guess on how this turns out.   

 

I'd guess Nelson isn't worried.... He's focus on football. 

And the agent handling... 

Play good = bank... 

[Moosejawcolt]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

Pinter played both guard and center and played them both well.   We let Glow walk.  So yes, I think Pinter is good, becayse the team does too.   And the team thinks Raimann is good as well.   We likely won’t see much this year, but probably much more next year.  
 

I don’t think my assumptions are unreasonable.  

The team also tought Wentz was good. The team also tought tthoseboat load of pics in the Dline would be good. I could go on. Until the lights go on, it's just on paper.

[NewColtsFan]

20 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

The team also tought Wentz was good. The team also tought tthoseboat load of pics in the Dline would be good. I could go on. Until the lights go on, it's just on paper.

 there’s the difference between us….   You’ve already decided Paye and Dayo are busts.   And you like pointing to failures to try and make a point.   No team is perfect, not even the winningest team of this century, New England. 
 

And at the same time you diminish the importance of Nelson and Leonard because, according to you,  they don’t play the right positions.   
 

For some odd reason, you think all 32 teams think alike, grade players alike,  and run the same systems.   The problem is….   None of that is true.   You think one size fits all.   We’ve had this conversation many times before.    

[EastStreet]

Pinter didn't really play G last year..

3 starts at C.

Just couple at G snaps. 

G was Glow and Reed.