Freeney

[mvbighead]

Just like money wasn't an issue for Irsay when Peyton was still a Colt....

Last I checked, Freeney played in 16 games last season. Peyton played in 0.

Health concerns + #1 overall pick in the draft + Luck sitting there for the taking + Extremely high salary = Letting go of a 1st ballot HOF QB and moving towards a complete rebuild.

If you think money was the primary motivator in the Manning decision, you couldn't be more off base. You put #18 behind center and you'll sell out your stadium, guaranteed. 28 million is pocket change when you consider that fact.

The problem is, too many other factors made the decision to cut Manning more likely. Money wasn't the sole motivator, and likely wasn't even 20% of the reason why they ended up deciding the way they did.

[Carlos Danger]

Is the Big Cat Country report we traded Freeney to the Jags an April Fools joke? If not, it says we got RB Rashad Jennings and an undisclosed pick.

Edit: HAHAHAHA got me good, ) Don't know how I thought they would give up RJ and a pick....

Edited April 6, 2012 by Maureen
masked profanity

[willysp]

Jeez - it's April's Fool day man!

[oldunclemark]

Last I checked, Freeney played in 16 games last season. Peyton played in 0.

Health concerns + #1 overall pick in the draft + Luck sitting there for the taking + Extremely high salary = Letting go of a 1st ballot HOF QB and moving towards a complete rebuild.

If you think money was the primary motivator in the Manning decision, you couldn't be more off base. You put #18 behind center and you'll sell out your stadium, guaranteed. 28 million is pocket change when you consider that fact.

The problem is, too many other factors made the decision to cut Manning more likely. Money wasn't the sole motivator, and likely wasn't even 20% of the reason why they ended up deciding the way they did.

But it was money..we're parsing words here......it wasnt slary but it was cap room..which is the NFL's version of money

the cap hits would have handcuffed us in futrure years.

I wanted keep Peyton for 2012....one last shot at the Super Bowl

but beyond 2012...it would have been a problem..a problem that does not exist now that he's been fired

[IndyTrav]

The fact that you even compare Demarcus Ware to Dwight Freeney is laughable. Ware is 10x the player freeney ever was. Dwight's had 3 seasons of more than 12 sacks. With a player like Mathis on his opposite side. Wares only had 3 seasons when he didn't get 12 or more. (8rookie,11,11.5). Dwight dreams of being Ware.

[mvbighead]

The fact that you even compare Demarcus Ware to Dwight Freeney is laughable. Ware is 10x the player freeney ever was. Dwight's had 3 seasons of more than 12 sacks. With a player like Mathis on his opposite side. Wares only had 3 seasons when he didn't get 12 or more. (8rookie,11,11.5). Dwight dreams of being Ware.

Really, that's laughable? First and foremost, Ware is not 10x the player Dwight is. Exaggerate much? He may've always been a better player, but it is not by much more than 20%.

If you honestly think that, you're missing something. The strongest problem with Dwight getting to the QB isn't a problem with Dwight, it's generally been a problem in the middle of the defense. We have lacked a true NT, or any interior threat that gives opponents something to block other than Dwight. There's Dwight, then Mathis, and that's been about it on the front four.

Flip that to the Cowboys and they have at least had some semblance of reality in knowing that to dominate an offense, you have to have some brute strength, and not just quick guys chasing people down from behind. In any case, Dwight is and has been a great player. To say otherwise is quite special coming from someone who watches the games on Sundays.

All I am getting at Dwight is a good/great pass rusher at this point in his career. There is no reason to think he can't do well standing up. In fact, if we can add a good NT to go with Redding and our crew of UTs, we should at least have the presence of three big bodies up front that will free up more opportunities for Dwight and Robert. When you look at a good 3-4 squad, if you have a solid front 3, and a good pair of OLBs, that is a heckuva lot more intimidating than Dwight and Robert with 2 280lb tweeners trying to tie up the middle.

[jtrester]

He is too expensive! End of discussion. It has been said over, and over; we need to restructure, trade, or cut. Trading and cutting are the most viable at this point. With his age, we have seen the best he has to offer. Restructuring and holding on longer will not help us in the long run. We need the $14 Million, more than we need him. $14 Million can get us Asante Samuel, a NT, plus a couple of players for depth needs.

I thank him for his service, but it is time to move on. If we can part from one of the best QB's who ever played, we can say goodbye to an aging DE.

[bahhummbug]

He is too expensive! End of discussion. It has been said over, and over; we need to restructure, trade, or cut. Trading and cutting are the most viable at this point. With his age, we have seen the best he has to offer. Restructuring and holding on longer will not help us in the long run. We need the $14 Million, more than we need him. $14 Million can get us Asante Samuel, a NT, plus a couple of players for depth needs.

I thank him for his service, but it is time to move on. If we can part from one of the best QB's who ever played, we can say goodbye to an aging DE.

I Totally agree almost 1 mill per game is insane for 1 when the needs are many.

[mvbighead]

And who exactly are they going to spend the money on? If they were to want to use the money, they'd have cut him when FA started to have money to work with.

They didn't.

My guess is a restructure is, to some extent, in the works. It may not be. But if the FO can be believed, they're keeping him.

[dgambill]

And who exactly are they going to spend the money on? If they were to want to use the money, they'd have cut him when FA started to have money to work with.

They didn't.

My guess is a restructure is, to some extent, in the works. It may not be. But if the FO can be believed, they're keeping him.

They use it to sign draft picks. Currently if we sign our draft picks we would be almost 3 million over the cap. Perhaps they use the money to pick up a FA someone cuts after the draft (once the team is assured they got their talent they are shooting for) and lastly that money can go to next years cap. Sure he can be extended...I think that one of those two have to happen to get this team on the field...I prefer we do a sign and trade. I think if we do that his value would be high enough to get us a 2nd rounder and we get out from under the giant contract of an aging player and get younger and hopefully more talent at a multiple of positions that we have need at. That is the best case scenerio. Even if we extend him..he will probably be costing us at least 10 million a season over the next 3 or 4 years and I don't think we can afford that moving forward for an aging DE.

[MIColtsFan]

I really hope he stays. I think Freeney & Mathis both blitzing as OLB'ers will be fun to watch.

heck Yeah!

[KarlKuffs]

The fact that you even compare Demarcus Ware to Dwight Freeney is laughable. Ware is 10x the player freeney ever was. Dwight's had 3 seasons of more than 12 sacks. With a player like Mathis on his opposite side. Wares only had 3 seasons when he didn't get 12 or more. (8rookie,11,11.5). Dwight dreams of being Ware.

The only thing laughable is your hyperbole. Ware is better, but not by nearly as much as you are making it out to be.

Ware has played 8 seasons, so for you to say he's "only" had 3 seasons where he's gotten less than 12 sacks is misleading. Statistically speaking, he's gotten less than 12 sacks 38% of the time, which is not nearly as infrequent as you are presenting it to be.

Sacks isn't the only metric to judge, either. How about forced fumbles? You are aware that Freeney holds a huge edge over Ware in causing fumbles, right?

Also, not sure that your Mathis reference holds much water, as Freeney recorded 13 sacks in 2002 without Mathis. If anything, having Mathis on the other side helped to lower Freeney's sack numbers.

Like I said, Ware is better, but don't act like he's in another galaxy as compared to Dwight Freeney, because he isn't.

[IndyTrav]

The only thing laughable is your hyperbole. Ware is better, but not by nearly as much as you are making it out to be.

Ware has played 8 seasons, so for you to say he's "only" had 3 seasons where he's gotten less than 12 sacks is misleading. Statistically speaking, he's gotten less than 12 sacks 38% of the time, which is not nearly as infrequent as you are presenting it to be.

Sacks isn't the only metric to judge, either. How about forced fumbles? You are aware that Freeney holds a huge edge over Ware in causing fumbles, right?

Also, not sure that your Mathis reference holds much water, as Freeney recorded 13 sacks in 2002 without Mathis. If anything, having Mathis on the other side helped to lower Freeney's sack numbers.

Like I said, Ware is better, but don't act like he's in another galaxy as compared to Dwight Freeney, because he isn't.

Your right, I guess 3 less sacks, 15 less fumbles, 2 more TDs, 128more tackles, 67 more assists, and more All Pros in 37. Count em 37 less games would indicated these guys are pretty close.....roll eyes......the only thing Dwight is good at and Ware trails him by 3. In 37 less games....that alone speaks VOLUMES.....

Dwight has nightmares about Ware. He has a Ware blanket he sleeps with at night. When Dwight is in a sticky situation he asked himself. What Would Ware Do. When asked what he wants to be when he grows up he says Demarcus Wares pool boy.

[KarlKuffs]

Your right, I guess 3 less sacks, 15 less fumbles, 2 more TDs, 128more tackles, 67 more assists, and more All Pros in 37. Count em 37 less games would indicated these guys are pretty close.....roll eyes......the only thing Dwight is good at and Ware trails him by 3. In 37 less games....that alone speaks VOLUMES.....

Dwight has nightmares about Ware. He has a Ware blanket he sleeps with at night. When Dwight is in a sticky situation he asked himself. What Would Ware Do. When asked what he wants to be when he grows up he says Demarcus Wares pool boy.

Since Ware is 10x better than Freeney, why doesn't he have 10x as many sacks & forced fumbles as Freeney?

Again, nobody is arguing Freeney is better; we're pointing out how foolish you make yourself look with your overexaggerations.

Edited April 6, 2012 by Maureen
inflammatory

[mvbighead]

They use it to sign draft picks. Currently if we sign our draft picks we would be almost 3 million over the cap. Perhaps they use the money to pick up a FA someone cuts after the draft (once the team is assured they got their talent they are shooting for) and lastly that money can go to next years cap. Sure he can be extended...I think that one of those two have to happen to get this team on the field...I prefer we do a sign and trade. I think if we do that his value would be high enough to get us a 2nd rounder and we get out from under the giant contract of an aging player and get younger and hopefully more talent at a multiple of positions that we have need at. That is the best case scenerio. Even if we extend him..he will probably be costing us at least 10 million a season over the next 3 or 4 years and I don't think we can afford that moving forward for an aging DE.

The odds of signing a guy to an extension just to trade him are very unlikely. It may happen it Madden, but it seldom happens in the NFL. The only exceptions seem to be teams signing a FA, using him for a year or two, and then trading him off because they don't like what they got with him. Think Brandon Marshall from Miami to Chicago.

In any case, Freeney has been our biggest contributor on defense. We're paying Mathis just under 10 million a season. There is no reason to think that they can't pay Freeney somewhere around the same number.

Also, come 2013, I believe a lot of the old contracts disappear, the cap goes up, etc. We'll have oodles to spend at that time. At this point, however, they've got to eat old contracts.

And lastly, the team has already stated that they intend to keep Dwight. My guess is they find a way to get 3 million to work with for the remaining roster. Dwight may not be in their long term plans, but he could be a key contributor as a 3-4 OLB, especially with the way the line is shaping up lately. We won't be the Ravens by any means, but we'll have two explosive OLBs who can put a tremendous amount of pressure on the QB, just like they did when we ran the 4-3.

[IndyTrav]

Since Ware is 10x better than Freeney, why doesn't he have 10x as many sacks & forced fumbles as Freeney?

Again, nobody is arguing Freeney is better; we're pointing out how foolish you make yourself look with your overexaggerations.

So thanks for exposing your bafoonery again with this latest lame response.

Lol. He said 10x better. I better take him to task because he's actually only 3.765x better than Freeney....Get over it hombre, Ware is a MUCH better player, period. There is nothing you can say to the contrary.....as I said before, the only thing Dwight is asked to do, is pressure/get a sack.....Ware is asked to do MUCH more, and he still only trails Dwight in sacks by 3. In 37 less games. Over 2 seasons. And Dwight for nearly all his career played opposite a prolific offense.....it's no question Ware is head and shoulders above Dwight. None. Zero. Nada....The fact that you took exception to an arbitrary # is hilarious. You're just looking to e-fight over Freeney, who is an over paid, under performing DE who doesn't deserve 58.6567% of the praise he receives.....

[KarlKuffs]

Lol. He said 10x better. I better take him to task because he's actually only 3.765x better than Freeney....Get over it hombre, Ware is a MUCH better player, period. There is nothing you can say to the contrary.....as I said before, the only thing Dwight is asked to do, is pressure/get a sack.....Ware is asked to do MUCH more, and he still only trails Dwight in sacks by 3. In 37 less games. Over 2 seasons. And Dwight for nearly all his career played opposite a prolific offense.....it's no question Ware is head and shoulders above Dwight. None. Zero. Nada....The fact that you took exception to an arbitrary # is hilarious. You're just looking to e-fight over Freeney, who is an over paid, under performing DE who doesn't deserve 58.6567% of the praise he receives.....

It's not my fault you completely over exaggerate to the point you look like a complete fool.....on a point nobody is even arguing, and now you can't handle being called out on it.

Ware isn't 10x better than Freeney, he isn't 3.765x better than Freeney....and he isn't twice as good as Freeney. Ware is like a 9.5 on a scale of 10, and Freeney is like a 7.5 on a scale of 10. Show me any credible football analyst that supports your absurd statement .....you saying it's so, does not make it so.

[IndyTrav]

It's not my fault you completely over exaggerate to the point you look like a complete fool.....on a point nobody is even arguing, and now you can't handle being called out on it.

Ware isn't 10x better than Freeney, he isn't 3.765x better than Freeney....and he isn't twice as good as Freeney. Ware is like a 9.5 on a scale of 10, and Freeney is like a 7.5 on a scale of 10. Show me any credible football analyst that supports your absurd statement .....you saying it's so, does not make it so.

Bahahaha. I question your scale. 7.5?!? 9.5?!? Outlandish. Foolish. Show me the analyst who supports that scale. A scientist even. Absurd. Crazy.

I'm so glad we've got a guy like you in the forum who is here to keep the hyperbole and exagerations in check. Your the level head not only this forum, but the Internet in general needs. Your scale out of 10 is much more accurate and acute than my simplistic "player A is X times better than" system. Thank you for showing me the error of my ways. I look forward to seeing your scale analytical prowess in the national media very soon.

[KarlKuffs]

If the expression "dense as a brick" ever applied"....it would be right here. Funny how some things fly way over people's heads, even when you punch them right in the face with it.....lol

Nice talking to you, Euclid. I look forward to more of your in depth & mathematically credible player X vs player Y breakdowns in the future.

[IndyTrav]

Man, 98 posts and you manage to get personal shots in at least 4 of em. I'm impressed.

[dgambill]

Freeney just scares me playing OLB. I could see offenses running and passing right at him all year long! The guy only gets a tackle when someone happens to spin off one of our other DL and falls into him. If he lined up against me. I would run the ball right at him every single time and take my 6 yards or immediately audible to a designed pass play where he would be forced to cover someone. I really think he is a liability on our defense not a positive anymore. What he did great...best of almost anyone was line up on the end and use his speed rush/spin move. If he is only coming in on passing downs to blitz/rush he is going to be getting paid way to much to be a situational player. Regardless I guess his contract will be addressed sooner or later. It is so monumental right now that it can't stand that way going into the season. Personally, for the money we are paying him..and would pay to extend him I would much rather get a young stud OLB in FA next year. There are far better OLB that we could target that can do way more than just rush the passer.

[Nadine]

This thread has had a personal squabble removed.

Please, stay on topic and leave the personal shots out of it

[coltnorth]

Freeney just scares me playing OLB. I could see offenses running and passing right at him all year long! The guy only gets a tackle when someone happens to spin off one of our other DL and falls into him. If he lined up against me. I would run the ball right at him every single time and take my 6 yards or immediately audible to a designed pass play where he would be forced to cover someone. I really think he is a liability on our defense not a positive anymore. What he did great...best of almost anyone was line up on the end and use his speed rush/spin move. If he is only coming in on passing downs to blitz/rush he is going to be getting paid way to much to be a situational player. Regardless I guess his contract will be addressed sooner or later. It is so monumental right now that it can't stand that way going into the season. Personally, for the money we are paying him..and would pay to extend him I would much rather get a young stud OLB in FA next year. There are far better OLB that we could target that can do way more than just rush the passer.

If Freeney stays on the team, he will be used as a pass rusher. He won't have coverage responibilities. If he is out, he is rushing the passer. If they are runniong it, they have to get outside the DE to get to Freeney. if they go inside, the ILB has him. Not the much of a concern. The coaches wont put him in a situation where he is likely to fail.

[dgambill]

If Freeney stays on the team, he will be used as a pass rusher. He won't have coverage responibilities. If he is out, he is rushing the passer. If they are runniong it, they have to get outside the DE to get to Freeney. if they go inside, the ILB has him. Not the much of a concern. The coaches wont put him in a situation where he is likely to fail.

You don't think they won't recognize him in the game and audible to plays that force him into coverage or force him to tackle. Freeney is going to have to contain on the end and hold up in run defense. If he doesn't this won't be simply a tackle by a lb 6 yards down the field but by the saftey or corner 10-15 yards. If I saw Freeney I would immediately audible and bring the TE over or run plays where he would have to cover the back out of the backfield. He can't just rush everytime. We will get exposed. Perhaps he will show some skills that I haven't seen yet but if he comes crashing around the edge like that he will take himself out of so many plays..just like he has always done...and then with no lb behind him (because he is the backer) our small secondary will have to make tackles in space. We've seen how that works! I've seen this happen to teams that run the 3-4 in the past. I've watched players like Harrison and Suggs get taken out of games by an opposing offense who draws up a clever scheme. Of course we've seen them have huge success to but they have had years playing the position and recognizing when to come and when to call it off. The point is they are LBs...and have learned to read the offense and the formation and take into consideration down and distance and situational awareness. Freeney and even Mathis have never had to do this...EVER. I'm not going to say they can't but honestly..how much film do you think they have watched other than what the left tackle likes to do...not what does the back do in this formation...the tight end..the slot receiver...how far do I drop...please..this won't be easy for them. I give Mathis a little more of a break because I have seen him fall off a rush and fall back...move down the line and make a tackle...I see Freeney...make sacks..and over pursue and run by the ball carrier over and over opening up running lanes. They both have a lot of film work...on top of technique work to learn drops and coverages..because like it or not..they will have to do this. They can't just blitz every time. Offensive coordinators will have a field day with the open spaces they will leave if they just do that.

[oldunclemark]

If Freeney stays on the team, he will be used as a pass rusher. He won't have coverage responibilities. If he is out, he is rushing the passer. If they are runniong it, they have to get outside the DE to get to Freeney. if they go inside, the ILB has him. Not the much of a concern. The coaches wont put him in a situation where he is likely to fail.

I think that has to be it CN..

Freeney wont be in on first down....and if foes like Houston want to pass on first down all day....they're welcome

..but once we get to 2nd and 10 or 3rd and 10...you can insert Freeney and they can run at him if they wish...and have some success..

but if you get teanms to throw on 1st and 10 and run on 2nd and 10 or 3rd and 10...

...you win those games..

The problem is: Will Freeney accept not being an every down player.

Will he acept the advancement of age and that his career will go longer (whether its in Indy or not) if he only plays 50 or 66% of the time?

I dont know ..but our new coach seems to have a way of talking to defensive players

[dgambill]

I am sure if he his playing that those guys are more than capable of putting him in positions to be successful. Most definately they will find a way because he is talented. That say I don't think it is a natural fit for him on the defense and he would be way more successful in a 4-3 and likely to go somewhere that will use him that way next year. His contract, age, production, fit just seem to me that would indicate us going in a different direction..especially with that 14 million we could save and the 10-12 million he would likely get for his next contract. I just think we could do more with that money.

[oldunclemark]

I am sure if he his playing that those guys are more than capable of putting him in positions to be successful. Most definately they will find a way because he is talented. That say I don't think it is a natural fit for him on the defense and he would be way more successful in a 4-3 and likely to go somewhere that will use him that way next year. His contract, age, production, fit just seem to me that would indicate us going in a different direction..especially with that 14 million we could save and the 10-12 million he would likely get for his next contract. I just think we could do more with that money.

DBG.....

we may go in that direction at mid-season...

I think you try to redach the playoffs every season...but it we start badly.....

...we'll surely send Freeney to some contender that needs a D-end

I'd hate to see him with the jets..

[dgambill]

DBG.....

we may go in that direction at mid-season...

I think you try to redach the playoffs every season...but it we start badly.....

...we'll surely send Freeney to some contender that needs a D-end

I'd hate to see him with the jets..

I'd hate that too. If I had my preference...on the perfect trade I would send him to the Bears. They have been looking for someone to pair with Peppers and their window is now for that team. Cutler is in his prime and that defense is aging fast now. I would love to get Forte from them. He isn't happy..they picked up Bush and I don't see Forte returning. I think Forte would fit so perfectly as our feature back....and Brown would be a great complement. Plus my family likes the Bears and it would make them happy. Freeney just would fit well with the Monsters of the Midway. Anyways that is a crazy trade...sure we get cap space and a player that fits us and they get to let go of someone that is not happy and strengthen that defense to go against Detroit and Green Bay. I know Rodgers wouldn't be happy about that. Anyways blockbuster trades just don't happen in the nfl...that is an nba/mlb thing.