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Gavin Memorial Draft round 2-2018


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Just now, CR91 said:

 

More like forces throws with spotty accuracy when pressured which happens when you can't make pre snap reads another thing he can't do along with unable to stay in the pocket

He has somewhat bad accuracy, but that's the only thing wrong with him. He's literally a carbon-copy of Ben Roethlisberger and that's better than anything else in this draft by a mile. His accuracy can improve, a lot of Rosen's problems can't or likely won't. Allen is likely to sit a year anyway to get NFL ready.

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9 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

He has somewhat bad accuracy, but that's the only thing wrong with him. He's literally a carbon-copy of Ben Roethlisberger and that's better than anything else in this draft by a mile. His accuracy can improve, a lot of Rosen's problems can't or likely won't. Allen is likely to sit a year anyway to get NFL ready.

 

Rosen atleast has pocket presence along with good enough arm strength and accuracy to make all the throws. Sure he doesn't have a cannon like Allen, but that is not the biggest trait a QB needs

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4 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

Rosen atleast has pocket presence along with good enough arm strength and accuracy to make all the throws.

Rosen definitely does not have the pocket presence as he folds under pressure, and I'd easily say Josh Allen has the arm strength to throw wherever he wants. Rosen does have better accuracy if he gets the ball off. Usually he keys in on one receiver and it's hard for him to throw it to anyone else. Allen is also a better leader. Rosen has that smug attitude about him. 

 

I'll bet money that Allen has a better career than Rosen. Allen's ceiling is the hall-of-fame, Rosen's is a solid starting QB. You want the floor, I'll take the ceiling.

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5 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

Rosen atleast has pocket presence along with good enough arm strength and accuracy to make all the throws.

btw, I absolutely love your quote. "Don't be afraid to be different, be afraid that you're not". How I live a lot of the time.

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36 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

He has somewhat bad accuracy, but that's the only thing wrong with him. He's literally a carbon-copy of Ben Roethlisberger and that's better than anything else in this draft by a mile. His accuracy can improve, a lot of Rosen's problems can't or likely won't. Allen is likely to sit a year anyway to get NFL ready.

 

Ben was a great player in college, even got some Heisman consideration despite playing in Miami OH. Allen was a bad player in college, with terrible comp % and YPA.

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2 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Rosen definitely does not have the pocket presence as he folds under pressure, and I'd easily say Josh Allen has the arm strength to throw wherever he wants. Rosen does have better accuracy if he gets the ball off. Usually he keys in on one receiver and it's hard for him to throw it to anyone else. Allen is also a better leader. Rosen has that smug attitude about him. 

 

I'll bet money that Allen has a better career than Rosen. Allen's ceiling is the hall-of-fame, Rosen's is a solid starting QB. You want the floor, I'll take the ceiling.

 

You wanna bet Allen will be a hall of famer before he takes a snap in the NFL. That's bold @Jared Cisneros. haha you're fun to argue with

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1 minute ago, Finball said:

 

Ben was a great player in college, even got some Heisman consideration despite playing in Miami OH. Allen was a bad player in college, with terrible comp % and YPA.

The arm, the size, the ability to extend plays is just like Ben. He may not be as polished, but he is basically the slightly less developed equivalent of him.

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2 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

You wanna bet Allen will be a hall of famer before he takes a snap in the NFL. That's bold @Jared Cisneros. haha you're fun to argue with

I will bet that Allen is better than Rosen though, and I don't think it's much of a competition. I follow my reads, not the local media, and someone in this draft will be a bust for sure.

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22 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

The arm, the size, the ability to extend plays is just like Ben. He may not be as polished, but he is basically the slightly less developed equivalent of him.

 

He has equivalent traits.

 

But so did Jake Locker.

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Just now, Finball said:

 

He has equivalent traits.

 

But so did Jake Locker.

I can't disagree with this, you got me there. I guess the only problem I see with Allen is accuracy, and that can be corrected. Everything else is top of the line to me. If his accuracy was great, he'd be the runaway no1 pick before Barkley. However, it's a tossup this year as everyone has strengths and weaknesses. If Allen improves his accuracy, he will be not only the best QB in the draft, but the best player by far. 

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22 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I can't disagree with this, you got me there. I guess the only problem I see with Allen is accuracy, and that can be corrected. Everything else is top of the line to me. If his accuracy was great, he'd be the runaway no1 pick before Barkley. However, it's a tossup this year as everyone has strengths and weaknesses. If Allen improves his accuracy, he will be not only the best QB in the draft, but the best player by far. 

 

I agree with you that if he had great accuracy he'd be #1 pick. And he has about as good traits as QB can have. And he does have the best upside of all QBs in this draft.

 

But the list of QBs who weren't accurate in college and then became accurate in pros is a very small one.

 

And he has relatively good mechanics. And I think it works against him here. I'm of the opinion that accuracy can't be significantly improved at his age/stage where he's at. Wentz was another guy with great traits but not so great accuracy. But his mechanics weren't good. Mechanics got fixed, accuracy improved. Rodgers had good accuracy but awful mechanics. Mechanics were completely re-worked from the ground up and it took 2 years. And he became as accurate QB as the NFL has ever seen.

 

Both Rodgers and Wentz were also better in college than Allen.

 

Allen will go in the top 10 and probably top 5. But I'd be scared as heck to draft him there because his tape was so terrible and the history of QBs with great traits like cannon arm but poor college production and bad accuracy.

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1 minute ago, Finball said:

 

I agree with you that if he had great accuracy he'd be #1 pick. And he has about as good traits as QB can have. And he does have the best upside of all QBs in this draft.

 

But the list of QBs who weren't accurate in college and then became accurate in pros is a very small one.

 

And he has relatively good mechanics. And I think it works against him here. I'm of the opinion that accuracy can't be significantly improved at his age/stage where he's at. Wentz was another guy with great traits but not so great accuracy. But his mechanics weren't good. Mechanics got fixed, accuracy improved. Rodgers had good accuracy but awful mechanics. Mechanics were completely re-worked from the ground up and it took 2 years. And he became as accurate QB as the NFL has ever seen.

 

Both Rodgers and Wentz were also better in college than Allen.

 

Allen will go in the top 10 and probably top 5. But I'd be scared as heck to draft him there because his tape was so terrible and the history of QBs with great traits like cannon arm but poor college production and bad accuracy.

Fair argument, we'll see who is right in the upcoming years. I'm not that worried about it as a lot of people.

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16 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Reminder, there is a quiet period from 10pm to 9 am EST. clock will pause. And yes, this is adjusted for Daylight savings

Hey csmopar, can you update all the picks up to mine? Would like to see who is remaining and who has who.

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4 hours ago, chad72 said:

This is the final tally (Top 200 players) AFTER ROUND 1:

 

1.       Saquon Barkley, Penn State, RBF, 5'11", 223

2.       Josh Rosen, UCLA, QB, 6'3", 210

3.       Bradley Chubb, NC State, EDGE, 6'3", 273

4.       Josh Allen, Wyoming, QB, 6'5", 230

5.       Minkah Fitzpatrick, Alabama, S, 6'2", 216

6.       Sam Darnold, USC, QB, 6'4", 225

7.       Marcus Davenport, UTSA, EDGE, 6'6", 250

8.       Baker Mayfield, Oklahoma, QB, 6'0", 210

9.       Mike McGlinchey, Notre Dame, OT, 6'7", 310

10.    Roquan Smith, Georgia, ILB, 6'1", 225

11.    Denzel Ward, Ohio State, CB, 5'11", 184

12.    Tremaine Edmunds, Virginia Tech, OLB, 6'5", 236

13.    Quenton Nelson, Notre Dame, OG, 6'5", 329

14.    Vita Vea, Washington, DL1T, 6'4", 332

15.    Brian O'Neill, Pittsburgh, OT, 6'6", 305

16.    Derwin James, Florida State, S, 6'2", 213

17.    Courtland Sutton, SMU, WRF, 6'4", 225

18.    James Washington, Oklahoma State, WRF, 6'0", 205

19.    Arden Key, LSU, EDGE, 6'6", 231

20.    Calvin Ridley, Alabama, WRF, 6'1", 190

21.    Kolton Miller, UCLA, OT, 6'8", 310

22.    Harold Landry, Boston College, EDGE, 6'3", 250

23.    Joshua Jackson, Iowa, CB, 6'1", 192

24.    Marcell Ateman, Oklahoma State, WRF, 6'4", 220

25.    Ronald Jones II, USC, RBF, 6'1", 195

26.    Derrius Guice, LSU, RBF, 5'11", 212

27.    Isaiah Oliver, Colorado, CB, 6'1", 195

28.    Anthony Miller, Memphis, WRS, 5'11", 190

29.    Ogbonnia Okoronkwo, Oklahoma, EDGE, 6'1", 245

30.    Isaiah Wynn, Georgia, OG, 6'2", 302

31.    Connor Williams, Texas, OT, 6'6", 320

32.    Braden Smith, Auburn, OG, 6'5", 300

33.    Lamar Jackson, Louisville, QB, 6'2", 205

34.    Taven Bryan, Florida, DL3T, 6'4", 290

35.    Holton Hill, Texas, CB, 6'3", 200

36.    Sam Hubbard, Ohio State, EDGE, 6'5", 266

37.    Mason Rudolph, Oklahoma State, QB, 6'4", 235

38.    Mark Andrews, Oklahoma, TE, 6'5", 253

39.    Will Hernandez, UTEP, OG, 6'3", 330

40.    Da'Ron Payne, Alabama, DL1T, 6'2", 319

41.    Tegray Scales, Indiana, OLB, 6'0", 230

42.    Royce Freeman, Oregon, RBF, 5'11", 230

43.    Rashaan Evans,Alabama, ILB, 6'2", 231

44.    Nick Chubb, Georgia, RBF, 5'10", 228

45.    Deontay Burnett, USC, WRF, 6'0", 170

46.    Christian Kirk, Texas A&M, WRF, 5'11", 201

47.    Jaire Alexander, Louisville, CB, 5'11", 188

48.    Chukwuma Okorafor, Western Michigan, OT, 6'5", 333

49.    Ronnie Harrison, Alabama, S, 6'2", 216

50.    Harrison Phillips, Stanford, DL1T, 6'4", 295

51.    Sony Michel, Georgia, RBF, 5'11", 212

52.    Justin Reid, Stanford, S, 6'1", 198

53.    Orlando Brown, Oklahoma, OT, 6'7", 340

54.    Frank Ragnow, Arkansas, OC, 6'5", 319

55.    Kameron Kelly, San Diego St, CB, 6'1", 200

56.    Michael Gallup, Colorado St, WRF, 6'1", 195

57.    Dallas Goedert, S Dakota St, TE, 6'4", 250

58.    Da'Shawn Hand, Alabama, DL5T, 6'4", 280

59.    DeShon Elliott, Texas, S, 6'2", 210

60.    Carlton Davis, Auburn, CB, 6'1", 195

61.    M.J. Stewart, North Carolina, CB, 5'11", 200

62.    Mike Gesicki, Penn State, TE, 6'6", 252

63.    Josh Sweat, Florida State, EDGE, 6'5", 250

64.    Kerryon Johnson, Auburn, RBF, 6'0", 212

65.    Maurice Hurst, Michigan, DL3T, 6'2", 282

66.    Chad Thomas, Miami (FL), EDGE, 6'5", 265

67.    Leighton Vander Esch, Boise State, ILB, 6'4", 240

68.    Desmond Harrison, West Georgia, OT, 6'7", 300

69.    Marcell Frazier, Missouri, EDGE, 6'5", 260

70.    Dorance Armstrong, Kansas, EDGE, 6'4", 241

71.    Luke Falk, Washington State, QB, 6'3", 214

72.    Tre'Quan Smith, UCF, WRF, 6'1", 209

73.    Jeff Holland, Auburn, EDGE, 6'1", 249

74.    Kalen Ballage, Arizona State, RBF, 6'3", 230

75.    Brendan Mahon, Penn St, OG, 6'4", 315

76.    Derrick Nnadi, Florida State, DL1T, 6'1", 312

77.    Mark Walton, Miami (FL), RBF, 5'9", 205

78.    Kyzir White, West Virginia, S, 6'3", 215

79.    Martinas Rankin, Mississippi State, OT, 6'5", 302

80.    RJ McIntosh, Miami, DL3T, 6'4", 293

81.    Azeem Victor, Washington, ILB, 6'4", 240

82.    Malik Jefferson, Texas, OLB, 6'3", 238

83.    Quenton Meeks, Stanford, CB, 6'1", 195

84.    Armani Watts, Texas A&M, S, 5'11", 200

85.    Lorenzo Carter, Georgia, EDGE, 6'5", 242

86.    Billy Price, Ohio State, OG, 6'3", 315

87.    Christian Sam, Arizona State, ILB, 6'2", 237

88.    Jaylen Samuels, NC State, TE, 5'11", 236

89.    Rasheem Green, USC, DL5T, 6'4", 280

90.    Mike White, Western Kentucky, QB, 6'3", 215

91.    Jalyn Holmes, Ohio State, DL5T, 6'5", 270

92.    DaeSean Hamilton, Penn State, WRF, 6'1", 211

93.    D.J. Moore, Maryland, WRS, 5'11", 215

94.    Josh Adams, Notre Dame, RBF, 6'2", 220

95.    Steven Richardson, Minnesota, DL3T, 6'0", 300

96.    Cedrick Wilson, Boise State, WRF, 6'3", 188

97.    Tarvarus McFadden, Florida State, CB, 6'1", 201

98.    D.J. Chark, LSU, WRF, 6'3", 187

99.    Auden Tate, Florida State, WRF, 6'5", 225

100.Riley Ferguson, Memphis, QB, 6'4", 210

101.Josey Jewell, Iowa, ILB, 6'2", 230

102.Sean Welsh, Iowa, OG, 6'3", 295

103.Jamarco Jones, Ohio State, OT, 6'5", 310

104.B.J. Hill, NC State, DL1T, 6'3", 315

105.Bradley Bozeman, Alabama, OC, 6'5", 322

106.Andrew Brown, Virginia, DL5T, 6'4", 280

107.Marcus Allen, Penn State, S, 6'2", 205

108.Duke Ejiofor, Wake Forest, EDGE, 6'3", 275

109.Mike Hughes, UCF, CB, 5'11", 185

110.Jordan Whitehead, Pittsburgh, S, 5'10", 185

111.Poona Ford, Texas, DL3T, 6'0", 300

112.Chase Litton, Marshall, QB, 6'6", 211

113.Jerome Baker, Ohio State, OLB, 6'1", 225

114.Darius Leonard, S Carolina State, OLB, 6'2", 229

115.Donte Jackson, LSU, CB, 5'11", 175

116.Dante Pettis, Washington, WRF, 6'1", 185

117.Trevon Young, Louisville, EDGE, 6'4", 255

118.Quin Blanding, Virginia, S, 6'1", 205

119.Rashaad Penny, SDSU, RBF, 5'11", 220

120.Micah Kiser, Virginia, ILB, 6'2", 240

121.Deon Cain, Clemson, WRF, 6'2", 200

122.D.J. Reed, Kansas St, CB, 5'9", 188

123.Folorunso Fatukasi, Connecticut, DL3T, 6'3", 310

124.Tyrell Crosby, Oregon, OT, 6'5", 310

125.Uchenna Nwosu, USC, OLB, 6'4", 240

126.Trey Quinn, SMU, WRF, 6'0", 203

127.Akrum Wadley, Iowa, RBF, 5'11", 170

128.Kyle Lauletta, Richmond, QB, 6'3", 216

129.Bo Scarbrough, Alabama, RBF, 6'2", 228

130.Justin Jones, NC State, DL1T, 6'2", 312

131.Tim Settle, VA Tech, DL1T, 6'3", 328

132.Allen Lazard, Iowa State, WRF, 6'5", 223

133.Joshua Frazier, Alabama, DL1T, 6'3", 315

134.Deadrin Senat, South Florida, DL3T, 6'1", 305

135.Trenton Thompson, Georgia, DL3T, 6'3", 307

136.DeQuinton Osborne, Oklahoma State, DL3T, 6'1", 305

137.Maea Teuhema, SE Louisiana, OG, 6'5", 315

138.Justin Lawler, Southern Methodist, EDGE, 6'4", 251

139.Terrell Edmunds, Virginia Tech, S, 6'2", 220

140.Keke Coutee, Texas Tech, WRS, 5'11", 180

141.Michael Hill, Ohio State, DL3T, 6'2", 295

142.Coleman Shelton, Washington, OC, 6'4", 293

143.Adam Breneman, UMass, TE, 6'4", 250

144.Scott Quessenberry, UCLA, OG, 6'3", 295

145.Jessie Bates III, Wake Forest, S, 6'2", 195

146.Dorian O'Daniel, Clemson, OLB, 6'1", 205

147.Jaleel Scott, NMSU, WRF, 6'6", 215

148.Ito Smith, Southern Miss, RBC, 5'9", 195

149.Nick Nelson, Wisconsin, CB, 6'0", 200

150.Jaylon Ferguson, LA Tech, EDGE, 6'5", 255

151.Tony Brown, Alabama, CB, 6'0", 198

152.Kendrick Norton, Miami, DL1T, 6'3", 318

153.Ike Boettger, Iowa, OT, 6'5", 307

154.Lowell Lotulelei, Utah, DL1T, 6'2", 310

155.Jordan Lasley, UCLA, WRF, 6'1", 209

156.Troy Fumagalli, Wisconsin, TE, 6'5", 234

157.Joe Ostman, Central Michigan, EDGE, 6'3", 255

158.Justin Jackson, Northwestern, RBC, 5'11", 193

159.Phillip Lindsay, Colorado, RBC, 5'8", 190

160.Cam Phillips, Virginia Tech, WRF, 6'0", 203

161.Nyheim Hines, NC State, RBF, 5'9", 197

162.Kemoko Turay, Rutgers, OLB, 6'4", 252

163.Ian Thomas, Indiana, TE, 6'5", 248

164.J'Mon Moore, Missouri, WRF, 6'3", 190

165.Godwin Igwebulke, Northwestern, S, 6'0", 200

166.J.C. Jackson, Maryland, CB, 6'1", 183

167.Alex McGough, Florida Int'l, QB, 6'2", 220

168.Kurt Benkert, Virginia, QB, 6'4", 215

169.Breeland Speaks, Ole Miss, DL3T, 6'3", 285

170.Hayden Hurst, South Carolina, TE, 6'5", 253

171.Kentavius Street, NC State, DL3T, 6'2", 290

172.Kahlil McKenzie Jr., Tennessee, DL1T, 6'3", 325

173.Mike Ramsay, Duke, DL3T, 6'2", 290

174.Justin Crawford, West Virginia, RBF, 5'11", 198

175.Davin Bellamy, Georgia, OLB, 6'5", 240

176.Duke Dawson, Florida, CB, 5'10", 208

177.Olive Sagapolu, Wisconsin, DL1T, 6'2", 340

178.Will Geary, Kansas State, DL3T, 6'0", 298

179.Damon Webb, Ohio State, S, 5'11", 193

180.David Moa, Boise State, DL3T, 6'3", 271

181.Jester Weah, Pittsburgh, WRF, 6'3", 210

182.Joseph Noteboom, TCU, OT, 6'5", 322

183.Van Smith, Clemson, S, 5'11", 195

184.Cole Reyes, North Dakota, S, 6'2", 215

185.John Kelly, Tennessee, RBF, 5'9", 205

186.James Daniels, Iowa, OC, 6'4", 295

187.Durham Smythe, Notre Dame, TE, 6'4, 245

188.Shaquem Griffin, UCF, OLB, 6'2", 229

189.Eddy Pineiro, Florida, PK, 5'11", 178

190.Du'Vonta Lampkin, Oklahoma, DL1T, 6'4", 335

191.Brandon Parker, North Carolina A&T, OT, 6'6", 300

192.Will Clapp, LSU, OG, 6'4", 303

193.Levi Wallace, Alabama, CB, 6'0", 183

194.Christian LaCouture, LSU, DL5T, 6'4", 307

195.Conor Sheehy, Wisconsin, DL5T, 6'3", 288

196.Nathan Shepherd, Fort Hays State, DL3T, 6'5", 300

197.Daylon Mack, Texas A&M, DL1T, 6'0", 320

198.Mike McCray, Michigan, ILB, 6'4", 248

199.Kendal Vickers, Tennessee, DL3T, 6'3", 295

200.Scott Pagano, Oregon, DL5T, 6'3", 295

 

ROUND 1

 

1) Cleveland - Saquon Barkley, RB, Penn State

2) New York Giants - Bradley Chubb, DE, NC State

3) Indianapolis - Quenton Nelson, OG, Notre Dame

4) Cleveland - from Houston* - Josh Rosen, QB, UCLA

5) Denver - Josh Allen, QB, Wyoming

6) New York Jets - Sam Darnold, QB, USC

7) Tampa Bay - Minkah Fitzpatrick, S, Alabama

8) Chicago - Tremaine Edmunds, LB, Virginia Tech

9) San Francisco - Denzel Ward, CB, Ohio State

10) Oakland - Roquan Smith, LB, Georgia

11) Miami - Baker Mayfield, QB, Oklahoma

12) Cincinnati - Vita Vea, DT, Washington

13) Washington - Derrius Guice, RB, LSU

14) Green Bay -  Derwin James, Florida State, S, 6'2", 213

15) Arizona -  Joshua Jackson, Iowa, CB, 6'1", 192

16) Baltimore - Mike McGlinchey, Notre Dame, OT, 6'7", 310

17) Los Angeles Chargers - Brian O'Neill, Pittsburgh, OT, 6'6", 305

18) Seattle -  Marcus Davenport, UTSA, EDGE, 6'6", 250

19) Dallas -  Calvin Ridley, Alabama, WRF, 6'1", 190

20) Detroit -  Da'Ron Payne, Alabama, DL1T, 6'2", 319

21) Buffalo -  Lamar Jackson, Louisville, QB, 6'2", 205

22) Buffalo - from Kansas City* -  Will Hernandez, UTEP, OG, 6'3", 330

23) Los Angeles Rams - Arden Key, LSU, EDGE, 6'6", 231

24) Carolina - Isaiah Wynn, Georgia, OG, 6'2", 302

25) Tennessee - Rashaan Evans, Alabama, ILB, 6'2", 231

26) Atlanta - Harold Landry, Boston College, EDGE, 6'3", 250

27) New Orleans - Sam Hubbard, Ohio State, EDGE, 6'5", 266

28) Pittsburgh - Leighton Vander Esch, Boise State, ILB, 6'4", 240

29) Jacksonville - Courtland Sutton, SMU, WR, 6'4", 225

30) Minnesota - Kolton Miller, UCLA, OT, 6'8", 310

31) New England - Josh Sweat, Florida State, EDGE, 6'5", 250

32) Philadelphia - Connor Williams, Texas, OT, 6'6", 320

 

ROUND 2

 

33) Browns - Billy Price, Ohio State, C

34.) Giants - Nick Chubb, RB

35) Browns - Malik Jefferson, Texas, ILB

36) Colts - Taven Bryan, DT

37) NY Jets - Christian Kirk, Texas A&M, WR

38) Buccaneers - Maurice Hurst, Michigan,  DT

39) Bears - Isaiah Oliver, Colorado, CB

40) Broncos - James Washington, Oklahoma State, WR

 

These are the top 40 heading into tomorrow for an updated list. We'll resume the mock tomorrow with the Raiders selection at 41.

 

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Just now, MPStack said:

L. Jackson will not go in the 1st Rd.

I don't believe so either. There are no trades in this mock, so the Buffalo GM probably panicked and took him at 21 thinking there weren't going to be any QB's remaining in the 2nd. It was a tough spot to be in needing a QB and not being able to trade.

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Just now, danlhart87 said:

Mason Rudolph is still available 

Yep. TBH, I was going to take Nelson at 5 if you didn't and hope Lamar Jackson or Mason Rudolph fell to 40. Would of gotten away with it too, if it wasn't for danlhart87 and the Indianapolis Colts! :) 

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6 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Josh Allen has the size, the cannon of an arm, solid mechanics (despite a bit of a windup), sets his feet well and uses his whole body to throw, good pocket presence and field vision (better than rosen), he has the ability to go through the defense with his eyes and scans the entire field. Great athlete as well. In a whole nother league than Rosen and easily the best QB in this class.

I see a lot of Blaine Gabbert in Josh Allen

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