If we choose to go Edge Rusher in 1st over Barkley, Arden Key is the TERROR we need..

[jshipp23]

After watching tons of tape on all edge rushers, Arden Key sticks out above them all...He has that lightening fast first step, and freakish length that can't be taught ..Chubb is a very good player, but is more of a technician who relies more on power than speed which is easier to neutralize at next level. If Colts go this route, KEY is the edge guy I would be okay with taking instead of Barkley, and we could even do the popular trade back in this scenario possibly..I have a feeling after combine this guy might be above Chubb on a lot of boards, and we may need to take him at 3...Arden Key =Jevon Kearse with SPEED..

[RealityIsLuck]

I'd be very disappointed if we take Key anywhere after pick 20 overall. 

 

He's got MASSIVE character concerns, and is falling down draft boards a ton - some mocks have him in the second round. I'd be all for him in the second if he's there but he's not a guy you take at number 3 overall... too risky. You need a leader. 

 

IF he is taken in the first by us I'd only be okay if it were a MASSIVE trade down, say in the 20s. 

[jshipp23]

4 minutes ago, RealityIsLuck said:

I'd be very disappointed if we take Key anywhere after pick 20 overall. 

 

He's got MASSIVE character concerns, and is falling down draft boards a ton - some mocks have him in the second round. I'd be all for him in the second if he's there but he's not a guy you take at number 3 overall... too risky. You need a leader. 

 

IF he is taken in the first by us I'd only be okay if it were a MASSIVE trade down, say in the 20s. 

Yeah the character concerns are hurting him..I'm basing it off pure ability really...If he is there round 2 or we trade back in round 1 I really think he is by far most TALENTED pass rusher in draft..On tape he is a destructive player and stands out more than Chubb to me..I'm not privy to the character part like Ballard will be..Mathieu had concerns as well and he paid off big for Arizona..I personally go for sure thing in Barkley IF we stay at 3 and he is there...I'm just not sure CHUBB will be able to dominate in NFL because of lack of speed ..I think he will be a good player, but not superstar potential like Barkley, Fitzpatrick, Nelson or KEY

[jshipp23]

Keep in mind Ballard ok'd Chiefs drafting Tyreke Hill...I don't think he is as concerned about character as many on here think , and I'm glad..Ballard wants impact players not choir boys..

[stitches]

1 minute ago, jshipp23 said:

Keep in mind Ballard ok'd Chiefs drafting Tyreke Hill...I don't think he is as concerned about character as many on here think , and I'm glad..Ballard wants impact players not choir boys..

He OK'ed him in the 5th freaking round, not no. 3 in the first. 

[jshipp23]

6 minutes ago, stitches said:

He OK'ed him in the 5th freaking round, not no. 3 in the first. 

He was a guy most teams wouldn't touch regardless of round..

[jshipp23]

7 minutes ago, stitches said:

He OK'ed him in the 5th freaking round, not no. 3 in the first. 

Bradley Chubb is SLOW. ..He is slow man...watch the tape..The more I watch the less I like him..Good NFL tackles will shut him down..

[Reidm]

12 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

Keep in mind Ballard ok'd Chiefs drafting Tyreke Hill...I don't think he is as concerned about character as many on here think , and I'm glad..Ballard wants impact players not choir boys..

If I remember correctly he met with Hill and his parents and realized he came from a good home and he was a good kid. He's always preaching about making sure players are a good fit for the locker room. You're making it sound as if he will take anyone as long as they are great football players which isn't the case, Here's a good article on his free agency approach which I'm sure will be similar to his draft approach in regards to character 

https://www.stampedeblue.com/2017/3/1/14782288/chris-ballard-opens-up-on-his-free-agency-approach-you-cant-buy-a-locker-room-indianapolis-colts

[stitches]

12 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

Bradley Chubb is SLOW. ..He is slow man...watch the tape..The more I watch the less I like him..Good NFL tackles will shut him down..

OK

[jshipp23]

2 minutes ago, stitches said:

OK

Do you not think he is slow?? In NFL he is more suited on inside tbh, and can be very good as a 3-4 DE..

[BProland85]

Bradley Chubb is MUCH better. Key has a much higher chance to bust. 

[stitches]

7 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

Do you not think he is slow?? In NFL he is more suited on inside tbh, and can be very good as a 3-4 DE..

I don't know, I will wait for the combine. He's not as quick as Key, but that doesn't mean he's slow. I don't see him being visibly as slow as for me to brand him 'SLOW' and needing to play inside. He looks Bosa-ish to me. If he tests similarly I don't think there is even a conversation about whether he deserves to be top 5 pick. He had no problem containing and chasing for sacks Lamar Jackson who is considered one of the best athletes at the position.

 

If you had to guess, how do you think he will test? 

[jshipp23]

He will test well in strength, I think in cone and 40 he will be mid pack..Not saying it's end all be all..If you can play you can play much like Bosa..No guarantee he will translate like Bosa has though..I like him, I know the so called experts do too, the more I look into him the less I like him at 3 though..In a lot of drafts he would be in 15-25 range..Reminds me of Soloman Thomas which ain't bad by any means..

[jshipp23]

I see a really good 3-4 defensive end, a solid 4-3 defensive end, he is a safe pick..I think other guys are more worthy at 3 over him though..

[jshipp23]

18 minutes ago, BProland85 said:

Bradley Chubb is MUCH better. Key has a much higher chance to bust. 

Chubb is safer not necessarily better..Let me ask you this..If you compare both on tape not knowing nothing character wise, who do you pick?

[SevaColt]

Do you think Key will go before Harold Landry Boston College?

[stitches]

11 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

He will test well in strength, I think in cone and 40 he will be mid pack..Not saying it's end all be all..If you can play you can play much like Bosa..No guarantee he will translate like Bosa has though..I like him, I know the so called experts do too, the more I look into him the less I like him at 3 though..In a lot of drafts he would be in 15-25 range..Reminds me of Soloman Thomas which ain't bad by any means..

This is a HORRIBLE comparison. How the hell do you see Solomon Thomas in him? Solomon Thomas is a great athlete, who was raw as a pass-riusher, especially as EDGE. Chubb has advanced technique and hand usage. They have very little in common. 

[stitches]

1 minute ago, SevaColt said:

Do you think Key will go before Harold Landry Boston College?

He probably won't. From everything I'm hearing the off-the-field concerns are real with him. 

[jshipp23]

When you are picking an edge rusher  based on hand usage in top 5 you better rethink..just saying..Yes, he is very similar to Thomas. .

[boo2202]

He reminds me of a player we already have on our roster barkevious mingo. Mingo was also a freakish athlete but didn't pan out to be the star some thought he'd be

[jshipp23]

I'm not talking about character concerns with this thread..Im talking about who is best edge rusher in draft with biggest ceiling..It's Key and  everyone else is a few notches below. .

[stitches]

2 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

When you are picking an edge rusher  based on hand usage in top 5 you better rethink..just saying..Yes, he is very similar to Thomas. .

Bosa was picked on technique, hand-usage and strength(the exact same strengths Chubb has). I'm still waiting for his combine... if he tests like... Charles Harris I probably will cool down on him for top 3 pick, but for now I'm loving most of what I see from Chubb. 

[jshipp23]

Just now, stitches said:

Bosa was picked on technique and hand-usage. I'm still waiting for his combine... if he tests like... Charles Harris I probably will cool down on him, but for now I'm loving most of what I see from Chubb. 

Fair enough...I think he is gonna be a good player no doubt..I just question picking him top 3 based on the little knowledge I have ..I go by what i see..

[jshipp23]

4 minutes ago, boo2202 said:

He reminds me of a player we already have on our roster barkevious mingo. Mingo was also a freakish athlete but didn't pan out to be the star some thought he'd be

You know what I agree..I think Mingo is starting to show up though, and I hope we keep him..I think he is about to Jerry Hughes it..It takes some longer to develop, especially those picked on POTENTIAL.  Why I still like LeRaven Clark and think he will start paying off for us soon..I would hope if we choose Key he gets it quicker than Mingo, but I will say Mingos best days are ahead of him and I love that Ballard saw that as well..

[jshipp23]

We might already have that guy in Mingo once he gets his chance...

[krunk]

56 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

Bradley Chubb is SLOW. ..He is slow man...watch the tape..The more I watch the less I like him..Good NFL tackles will shut him down..

Why does every pass rusher have to fit a cookie cutter mold?   Joey Bosa is slow, but can he play?  Some rushers are power and some are speed.

[stitches]

5 minutes ago, krunk said:

Why does every pass rusher have to fit a cookie cutter mold?   Joey Bosa is slow, but can he play?  Some rushers are power and some are speed.

Bosa is not exactly slow, though... His agility, short-area quickness and explosiveness tests are pretty good. He was kinda slow on the 40. But I agree overall. There are different ways to win at the edge. There are the speed rushers with great cornering ability and there are the technicians like Bosa and there are mixes in between. As long as the guy wins consistently(and does the rest of his job well - stopping the run, dropping in coverage(if required)) he will be successful in the league.

[jshipp23]

1 minute ago, krunk said:

Why does every pass rusher have to fit a cookie cutter mold?   Joey Bosa is slow, but can he play?  Some rushers are power and some are speed.

It's a lot easier to neutralize power rushers though. ..Not many Reggie Whites out there..If COLTS Pick Chubb I hope he is..He could be, or could just be a solid player edge setter..just saying..Chubb is safe pick much like Ryan Kelly..You are getting a solid player regardless..

[jshipp23]

I think Chubb could be a pro bowl level 3-4 defensive end..It doesn't fit with us though now...He will be a good productive player for us no doubt, I just don't think he is top 5 worthy.......

[jshipp23]

Bottom line I don't think Chubb will have the immediate Impact that Barkley would, not even close..

[krunk]

I don't think most first year pass rushers in general are going to outdo a RB.

But not everything is about the immediate.

[jshipp23]

21 minutes ago, stitches said:

Bosa is not exactly slow, though... His agility, short-area quickness and explosiveness tests are pretty good. He was kinda slow on the 40. But I agree overall. There are different ways to win at the edge. There are the speed rushers with great cornering ability and there are the technicians like Bosa and there are mixes in between. As long as the guy wins consistently(and does the rest of his job well - stopping the run, dropping in coverage(if required)) he will be successful in the league.

I see no explosion with Chubb at all..I see high motor effort guy..

[jshipp23]

1 minute ago, krunk said:

I don't think most first year pass rushers in general are going to outdo a RB.

But not everything is about the immediate.

We make the right moves we can be Falcons next yr..In my opinion in NFL it has to be about IMMEDIATE if you have franchise QB in place which we do..No slow rebuild 10 yr Jax Jaguar plan..

[jshipp23]

4 minutes ago, krunk said:

I don't think most first year pass rushers in general are going to outdo a RB.

But not everything is about the immediate.

You got to catch lightning in a bottle "Barkley", and go for it..

[jshipp23]

59 minutes ago, SevaColt said:

Do you think Key will go before Harold Landry Boston College?

Key is way better..Landry is a guy you smile abt taking in rd 2 after having Barkley in house..

[NorthernBlue]

27 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

I think Chubb could be a pro bowl level 3-4 defensive end..It doesn't fit with us though now...He will be a good productive player for us no doubt, I just don't think he is top 5 worthy.......

 

1 hour ago, jshipp23 said:

I see a really good 3-4 defensive end, a solid 4-3 defensive end, he is a safe pick..I think other guys are more worthy at 3 over him though..

 

1 hour ago, jshipp23 said:

Do you not think he is slow?? In NFL he is more suited on inside tbh, and can be very good as a 3-4 DE..

Most outlets I've read/seen indicate that he's better suited for the 4-3. Isn't that what they ran in NC State?

[BleedBlu8792]

1 minute ago, NorthernBlue said:

 

 

Most outlets I've read/seen indicate that he's better suited for the 4-3. Isn't that what they ran in NC State?

He is... He's not big enough to play as a 3 or 5-tech in a 3 man front. 

[krunk]

10 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

You got to catch lightning in a bottle "Barkley", and go for it..

The issue is it's already been proven that you can have a productive running game using lesser RBs with a good line and or good schemes.  See the Tennesse Titans and Houston Texans for example.   It's hard to find good pass rushers.   If you skip over them there's not a lot of availability to make up for what you missed.  They get snapped up pretty quickly.  If you miss out on one of the top RB you can still scheme up a good running game. If you don't get good pass rushers then you end up with what we've had the last 2 or more years.  I think the issue here is Scarcity.

[jshipp23]

13 minutes ago, krunk said:

The issue is it's already been proven that you can have a productive running game using lesser RBs with a good line and or good schemes.  See the Tennesse Titans and Houston Texans for example.   It's hard to find good pass rushers.   If you skip over them there's not a lot of availability to make up for what you missed.  They get snapped up pretty quickly.  If you miss out on one of the top RB you can still scheme up a good running game. If you don't get good pass rushers then you end up with what we've had the last 2 or more years.  I think the issue here is Scarcity.

What have Texans done with Watt, Raiders with Mack? 

[jshipp23]

16 minutes ago, krunk said:

The issue is it's already been proven that you can have a productive running game using lesser RBs with a good line and or good schemes.  See the Tennesse Titans and Houston Texans for example.   It's hard to find good pass rushers.   If you skip over them there's not a lot of availability to make up for what you missed.  They get snapped up pretty quickly.  If you miss out on one of the top RB you can still scheme up a good running game. If you don't get good pass rushers then you end up with what we've had the last 2 or more years.  I think the issue here is Scarcity.

We haven't had a real rb in 10 yrs, I am done with scrub rbs in 4th or 5th round, just fix it once and for all next 5 yrs at least. .Everyone says rbs dont mean championships, i can give you many lbs who were all time great and never won..For every Von Miller i can give u Emmit Smith and vice versa.