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Chubb or Barkley at #3?


AllYouNeedIsLuck

Who would you rather the Colts draft at #3?  

200 members have voted

  1. 1. Saquon Barkley or Bradley Chubb?

    • Barkley
      90
    • Chubb
      110


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1 minute ago, NDcolt said:

Very good picks but at 3 you willing to hit or miss?  Did you have either as a hit prior to draft?

I don’t have the time to go through and watch tape on every player, so no I didn’t have an opinion other than what I read about them. 

 

My point is that it’s not Barkley vs Chubb. You should compare what you get from Barkley vs what you can get from other RB’s, via draft or free agency, and what it would cost to sign them or what pick to draft them.

You also have to consider what it normally costs to get an all pro RB vs what it cost to get an all pro pass rusher. There is a reason pass rushers are some of the highest paid players in the league and RB’s aren’t.

 

Lastly, I would hope that Ballard is comfortable with whoever he picks at 3 and that if he has any doubt about the pick, then he trades back.

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7 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

There might be five: Le'Veon Bell, David Johnson, Todd Gurley, Alvin Kamara and Shady McCoy. They're all dual threat RBs who hurt teams in the passing game, and Gurley is the only one drafted in the first round. Maybe Zeke belongs on this, but almost all of his efficiency numbers were down this season; let's see what he does next year.

 

Bell -- 2nd rounder

Johnson -- 3rd rounder

Kamara -- 4th rounder

McCoy -- 2nd rounder

Do any of the above weigh 230 & run a 4.3 forty?  DID any of the above, have you shakin in your boots at the thought of game planning against them IN COLLEGE?  Now take the ABOVE players & imagine if they had Barkley’s measurables coming out of College?  Size, Strength, SPEED, Athleticism & acholodes. Still want Chubb?

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6 minutes ago, NDcolt said:

Do any of the above weigh 230 & run a 4.3 forty?  DID any of the above, have you shakin in your boots at the thought of game planning against them IN COLLEGE?  Now take the ABOVE players & imagine if they had Barkley’s measurables coming out of College?  Size, Strength, SPEED, Athleticism & acholodes. Still want Bell, Johnson, Kamara, McCoy ?

Fixed it for you, and the answer is absolutely!

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22 minutes ago, NDcolt said:

Do any of the above weigh 230 & run a 4.3 forty?  DID any of the above, have you shakin in your boots at the thought of game planning against them IN COLLEGE?  Now take the ABOVE players & imagine if they had Barkley’s measurables coming out of College?  Size, Strength, SPEED, Athleticism & acholodes. Still want Chubb?

Yup.  

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13 minutes ago, NDcolt said:

Do any of the above weigh 230 & run a 4.3 forty?

 

Why does that matter? Are you scouting the player, or his measurables? Knile Davis would like a word... 

 

By the way, I'll be impressed with Barkley's numbers when they're actually real, not just message board legend. 

 

Quote

DID any of the above, have you shakin in your boots at the thought of game planning against them IN COLLEGE?

 

How many RBs were legendary in college, only to disappear in the NFL?

 

Quote

Now take the ABOVE players & imagine if they had Barkley’s measurables coming out of College?  Size, Strength, SPEED, Athleticism & acholodes.

 

They'd be pretty good. Not sure what your point is. They're already pretty good.

 

Quote

Still want Chubb?

 

What's Chubb have to do with anything?

 

You don't understand because you're stuck on this strawman argument. I don't think you need to convince anyone how good Barkley is, and in trying to do so, you're resorting to all this hyperbole that winds up distorting the conversation. Everyone knows how good Barkley is. 

 

At the risk of speaking for other people, the argument isn't against Barkley. It's against using the #3 pick on a RB, specifically because of a) the impact that even good RBs have on winning teams, b) the longevity -- or lack thereof -- of even good RBs in the NFL, and c) the rarity of picking #3 in the draft.

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34 minutes ago, Btown_Colt said:

I don’t have the time to go through and watch tape on every player, so no I didn’t have an opinion other than what I read about them. 

 

My point is that it’s not Barkley vs Chubb. You should compare what you get from Barkley vs what you can get from other RB’s, via draft or free agency, and what it would cost to sign them or what pick to draft them.

You also have to consider what it normally costs to get an all pro RB vs what it cost to get an all pro pass rusher. There is a reason pass rushers are some of the highest paid players in the league and RB’s aren’t.

 

Lastly, I would hope that Ballard is comfortable with whoever he picks at 3 and that if he has any doubt about the pick, then he trades back.

 

Your last sentence is so true.  But I have to disagree with some of the rest.  

 

You can make that argument if Chubb is indeed all pro material.  He’s good, no doubt.  Maybe the best this year.  But you need to watch him against the better Olines, guys he’ll see every week.  I didn’t see dominance, just a decent DE.  

 

I’m hoping for the trade back too, but if you ask me who’s the better player if Chubb and Barkley are there, I’m saying Barkley.  JMHO. 

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5 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

Yup.  

Care to tell the class your theory? What makes Chubb your selection at 3 w/o going into the teams needs, lack thereof or anything related to this Colts current team, just your adjetives on Chubb?  Sell your opinion.

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Would anyone in here seriously be upset if we took Barkley at #3? I wouldn't, the guy has greatness written all over him. He would also take a lot of pressure off of Luck, wear out Defenses, and keep our Defense fresh by ball control. He will easily be Rookie of the Year and could be Luck's Edge James. If we take Chubb I wont be upset at all either or if we take Nelson I wont be because we need D and O.Line. We have 6 more Draft picks after #3 in the 1st, high in each round so we can build our team in a lot of different ways.

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2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Would anyone in here seriously be upset if we took Barkley at #3? I wouldn't, the guy has greatness written all over him. He would also take a lot of pressure off of Luck, wear out Defenses, and keep our Defense fresh by ball control. He will easily be Rookie of the Year and could be Luck's Edge James. If we take Chubb I wont be upset at all either or if we take Nelson I wont be because we need D and O.Line. We have 6 more Draft picks after #3 in the 1st, high in each round so we can build our team in a lot of different ways.

Would be hate it tremendously 

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5 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

 

Your last sentence is so true.  But I have to disagree with some of the rest.  

 

You can make that argument if Chubb is indeed all pro material.  He’s good, no doubt.  Maybe the best this year.  But you need to watch him against the better Olines, guys he’ll see every week.  I didn’t see dominance, just a decent DE.  

 

I’m hoping for the trade back too, but if you ask me who’s the better player if Chubb and Barkley are there, I’m saying Barkley.  JMHO. 

Sorry, I can see how my post could be confusing, but I wasn’t trying to make an argument for Chubb over Barkley, or for Chubb at all. In fact, the point I was trying to make was that we shouldn’t be comparing Chubb vs Barkley, IMO. It should be Chubb vs other DE’s and Barkley vs other RB’s...in order to get the best value for your pick. If you feel like you can get similar production from another DE at pick 15 or in the 2nd rd then that’s what you should do. The same for RB and every other position.

 

And if we are ignoring positional value and just saying who is the best athlete in the class, I would probably agree that it’s Barkley.

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7 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Why does that matter? Are you scouting the player, or his measurables? Knile Davis would like a word... 

 

By the way, I'll be impressed with Barkley's numbers when they're actually real, not just message board legend. 

 

 

How many RBs were legendary in college, only to disappear in the NFL?

 

 

They'd be pretty good. Not sure what your point is. They're already pretty good.

 

 

What's Chubb have to do with anything?

 

You don't understand because you're stuck on this strawman argument. I don't think you need to convince anyone how good Barkley is, and in trying to do so, you're resorting to all this hyperbole that winds up distorting the conversation. Everyone knows how good Barkley is. 

 

At the risk of speaking for other people, the argument isn't against Barkley. It's against using the #3 pick on a RB, specifically because of a) the impact that even good RBs have on winning teams, b) the longevity -- or lack thereof -- of even good RBs in the NFL, and c) the rarity of picking #3 in the draft.

All I’m asking Superman for the sake of this board is to sell the class on taking Chubb # 3 overall?  Tell us why CHUBB is your pick?  What about him convinces you he’s #3 material other than a need?  Give us something that Screams he’s our guy.  ND made him a Casper which scares the heck out of me @ 3.  It isn’t about Barkley vs Chubb but it is at same time, both are predicted to be our picks @ 3.  Why do many experts have Barkley the #1 overall best talent in this draft, they see what I’m seeing.  Again, not saying your wrong but sell the class.

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4 minutes ago, BOTT said:

Would be hate it tremendously 

After watching last nights SB, Offense won the SB not Defense. Philly has Good Pass Rushers and it didn't work against NE, same for the Jags it didn't work vs the Pats. I don't have all the answers but Offense can easily win SB's too. The year we beat the Pats it took 38 points to finally get them in 2006.

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Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

After watching last nights SB, Offense won the SB not Defense. Philly has Good Pass Rushers and it didn't work against NE, same for the Jags it didn't work vs the Pats. I don't have all the answers but Offense can easily win SB's too. The year we beat the Pats it took 38 points to finally get them in 2006.

I won't bother to list the running backs that played last night......

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3 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

After watching last nights SB, Offense won the SB not Defense. Philly has Good Pass Rushers and it didn't work against NE, same for the Jags it didn't work vs the Pats. I don't have all the answers but Offense can easily win SB's too. The year we beat the Pats it took 38 points to finally get them in 2006.

Dilly Dilly, A True Friend of the Crowd!

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9 minutes ago, NDcolt said:

Care to tell the class your theory? What makes Chubb your selection at 3 w/o going into the teams needs, lack thereof or anything related to this Colts current team, just your adjetives on Chubb?  Sell your opinion.

Positional value. He'd be a cornerstone player. You could have 5 Saquons. If you don't have a top tier pass rusher, you aren't going anywhere. You aren't going to find those guys on the free agent market. You have a much easier time trying to find RBs in later rounds. You can keep your 4.3 40 and 230 RB and hope he has a career longevity longer than Chris Johnson who had a special first 3 years and was above average at best thereafter.

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4 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

After watching last nights SB, Offense won the SB not Defense. Philly has Good Pass Rushers and it didn't work against NE, same for the Jags it didn't work vs the Pats. I don't have all the answers but Offense can easily win SB's too. The year we beat the Pats it took 38 points to finally get them in 2006.

Except for that one time it worked and resulted in a strip sack? The biggest play of the game,IMO

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3 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

Positional value. He'd be a cornerstone player. You could have 5 Saquons. If you don't have a top tier pass rusher, you aren't going anywhere. You aren't going to find those guys on the free agent market. You have a much easier time trying to find RBs in later rounds. You can keep your 4.3 40 and 230 RB and hope he has a career longevity longer than Chris Johnson who had a special first 3 years and was above average at best thereafter.

You and many in here make sense but the problem I have I am not sure Chubb will be Great. I think Barkley will be.

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2 minutes ago, NDcolt said:

Please list the #3 overall pass rushers that made a statement?  Sorry BOTT, you walked into this one :)

There weren't any pass rushers picked that high playing last night.  But I'm sure chandler jones, who led the league in sacks, would have helped the patriots cause. But there were several running backs who played well who are just.....guys.

 

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3 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

Positional value. He'd be a cornerstone player. You could have 5 Saquons. If you don't have a top tier pass rusher, you aren't going anywhere. You aren't going to find those guys on the free agent market. You have a much easier time trying to find RBs in later rounds. You can keep your 4.3 40 and 230 RB and hope he has a career longevity longer than Chris Johnson who had a special first 3 years and was above average at best thereafter.

Finally some fiery, what makes him your cornerstone player? NFL hasn’t seen 1 Saquons let alone 5?  Agree we need pass rush but is Chubbs our answer?  If so, please tell us what makes him your guy.  Can’t compare CJ to SB, CJ didn’t have the muscle to take on hits.  

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Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

No doubt gigantic but Philly still gave up 33 points. NE didn't even Punt.

No they didn’t punt, they turned it over instead! It wasn’t one of the running backs that won that game, it was the defense. And did everyone really expect the Eagles D to keep that Patriots from scoring? I know there D is good, but so is the patriots offense led by one of the best QB’s in the NFL. The pats scored on every D they played this year. They put 24 up on the Jaguars a couple weeks ago.  

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7 minutes ago, BOTT said:

Fitzpatrick or maybe trade down.  I'm not for taking guards in the top 10, but I would prefer to take Nelson over Barkley at 3.

 

I don’t agree with that philosophy.  If a team has ruled that a player can help their team the most, it doesn’t matter where they take him.  They shouldn’t pass him up because it’s ‘too early’ for that position.  

 

Some so called draft experts made made fun of the Cowboys for overdrafting Olinemen.  They ended up with a great line.  If the Colts think Nelson OR Barkley helps them the most, they should take them. 

 

When a player is drafted becomes irrelevant the moment they take the field.  

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3 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

 

I don’t agree with that philosophy.  If a team has ruled that a player can help their team the most, it doesn’t matter where they take him.  They shouldn’t pass him up because it’s ‘too early’ for that position.  

 

Some so called draft experts made made fun of the Cowboys for overdrafting Olinemen.  They ended up with a great line.  If the Colts think Nelson OR Barkley helps them the most, they should take them. 

 

When a player is drafted becomes irrelevant the moment they take the field.  

So basically you are saying positional value doesn't exist?

 

The Cowboys didn't take any of their lineman in the top 10, except for their LT.

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4 minutes ago, Btown_Colt said:

No they didn’t punt, they turned it over instead! It wasn’t one of the running backs that won that game, it was the defense. And did everyone really expect the Eagles D to keep that Patriots from scoring? I know there D is good, but so is the patriots offense led by one of the best QB’s in the NFL. The pats scored on every D they played this year. They put 24 up on the Jaguars a couple weeks ago.  

 

The Philly D won the game?  The strip sack helped, changed the order of scoring.  But the Eagle offense won the game.  They held the ball long enough so Brady could score Again.

 

Both Ds were shredded the entire night.

 

There’s not even a debate. 

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12 minutes ago, Btown_Colt said:

No they didn’t punt, they turned it over instead! It wasn’t one of the running backs that won that game, it was the defense. And did everyone really expect the Eagles D to keep that Patriots from scoring? I know there D is good, but so is the patriots offense led by one of the best QB’s in the NFL. The pats scored on every D they played this year. They put 24 up on the Jaguars a couple weeks ago.  

You would have a point if Philly didn't have to score 41 points just to feel safe at the end. Yes Philly had a huge strip sack toward the end but other than that their Defense/Pass Rush was lousy. It was a huge play, yes, but without Philly scoring 41 points they lose.

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3 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

 

I’m saying you don’t pass on a player you really think can help your team the most because it’s ‘too high for that position’. 

Well, I never said he could help the team the most....just that I would prefer him over Barkley.

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1 minute ago, Smonroe said:

 

The Philly D won the game?  The strip sack helped, changed the order of scoring.  But the Eagle offense won the game.  They held the ball long enough so Brady could score Again.

 

Both Ds were shredded the entire night.

 

There’s not even a debate. 

I guess if that’s how you want to look at it. I say that both offenses did enough to win the game. The difference was defense. The Eagles D stepped up when it had to, the Patriots defense did not. You can’t tell me that your stomach didn’t turn when Brady got the ball back with over 2 minutes to go and chance to win the game. We have all seen that scenario play out. The defense stepped up and shut the drive down before it had a chance to really get going. 

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7 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

You would have a point if Philly didn't have to score 41 points just to feel safe at the end. Yes Philly had a huge strip sack toward the end but other than that their Defense/Pass Rush was lousy. It was a huge play, yes, but without Philly scoring 41 points they lose.

Ok, the patriots had to score more than 41 to win. Again it was two good offenses...it was that patriots D that failed and the Eagles D stepped up.

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