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The Colts Should Play A 1-Gap 3-4 For The 3-4 Portion Of Their 3-4/4-3 Hybrid


chad72

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I like the 1-gap 3 man front for several reasons.

One, it is easier to find a pool of players instead of playing the true 3-4 with a 340-350 lb NT

Two, since we will play a hybrid and not a 3-4 front all the time, the one-gap style of D-line play will help our defensive linemen when they play the 4-3 front as well.

Interesting article I found on it:

http://subscribers.f...el_idpguide.php

Key excerpt that I liked:

Bum Phillips and the 1-gap 3-4

To hear Bum Phillips tell it, developing his version of the 3-4 defense wasn't rocket science:

"Coaching is pretty simple really. If you don't got something, find something you do got. Really we didn't have but one [defensive lineman] - [Hall of Famer] Elvin [bethea] - until we got Curley [Culp] in the middle of that season. Then we had two. What we did have was four real good linebackers so all I done was find a way to get our best players on the field."

Like the Fairbanks-Bullough 3-4 scheme that was taking hold in New England at the same time, Phillips was looking to contain the run and create mismatches in pass rush. Though Phillips based his scheme on the same concepts that the New England coaches did, he favored an attacking style. He used a number of one-gap techniques in his front seven, stunting and slanting his lineman to cause pressure and using an OLB - "Dr. Doom" Robert Brazile, who was LT before Lawrence Taylor came into the league - frequently as a fourth pass rusher. In many ways, Phillips' scheme was a 4-3 with four players in a two point stance.

That attacking, aggressive style of play has stood the test of time better than the read-and-react style for much the same reason that the under 4-3 has. It allows players to attack the offense, specifically by disguising its fourth (and fifth or sixth) pass rusher and the coverage behind. In fact, there are a lot of underfront concepts in the Phillips 3-4.

08idp_figure_10.gif

Unlike the true 2-gap 3-4 in the last post, there's no clear "bubble" in a 1-gap front. The strong side end slides down in the guard-tackle gap and the nose tackle slants to the weak side center-guard gap. The weak side end may or may not be head-up on the tackle, sometimes aligning in a 5-technique.

Again, for the reasons we've talked about in prior posts about Bruce Smith and Warren Sapp, moving the defensive lineman just a few inches changes the philosophy entirely. By comparing the two diagrams, it's easy to see how the mindset of the defensive linemen changes. It's clear that the two inside linebackers can be, if the linemen are disruptive at all, better protected from the blocks of interior linemen. You can see the lines of attack for a delayed ILB blitz or how each OLB might get a jump by shifting one defensive end to the outside of an offensive tackle.

IDP ASIDE

We covered the importance of avoiding most 3-4 defensive ends above. Briefly, even in tackle heavy scoring systems, you should consider rostering only those defensive ends who are quick and strong enough to consistently get off blocks. Usually, they'll play for teams that play a lot of 1-gap responsibility (DAL, SD, SF in 2009).

But the fear of the 3-4 in IDP circles, which was once rightly reserved for the defensive line, had also recently been pervading the linebacker group. It's not hard to pinpoint what happened. After a 128 solo tackle season in 2005 in his first year as a starter, Jonathan Vilma saw his solo tackle production plummet in 2006 after the Jets moved to a 3-4 front. Ignoring the numbers of Ray Lewis, Keith Brooking, Jamie Sharper and Donnie Edwards earlier this decade, panic set in - even amongst longtime veterans of IDP leagues. Putting the bulk of the blame on the scheme, IDPers projected Vilma's failures to extend to all 3-4 ILBs - including one Patrick Willis. We all know how that turned out. The same blind spot hurt owners who ignored Jerod Mayo in 2008.

Enough of the cautionary tale. It is reasonable to be wary of some 3-4 ILBs. They will face more offensive linemen blocks than many of their 4-3 counterparts. They'll have direct competition from their teammate at the other ILB position. Some may not play in all nickel packages. However, as we've seen above, some 3-4 fronts behave very much like 4-3 fronts. In fact, most 1-gap 3-4 fronts allow the WILB (by convention the RILB) the opportunity to match a 4-3 MLB in tackle production. Crossing a 1-gap 3-4 WILB off your draft boards or dropping them a tier or more due only to "3-4 fear" will often be a huge mistake.

How big a mistake? Well, in 17 player-seasons between 2002 and 2008, the RILB out-tackled the LILB in a 1-gap 3-4 front 14 times. In those 17 player-seasons, the RILB has topped 100 solo tackles 11 times and had more than 90 solos 13 times. 75 percent of the time, the team RILBs have combined for 90 or more solos. The average number of solo tackles for the 1-gap RILB in that data set. 99. A huge mistake indeed. Be wary of the rare RILB that doesn't play every down (i.e. Matt Wilhelm and Akin Ayodele in 2007 and 2008). But file away the lessons taught by Vilma and Willis.

Even 2-gap ILBs can have above-average IDP value. Again, it's usually the WILB that holds better value, but the disparity isn't as great. Chris Draft, Jay Foreman, James Farrior and Andra Davis have all held LB2+ value in recent seasons. Bradie James was a stud during the second half of 2008. In all 3-4 fronts, but particularly the 2-gap and hybrid fronts, an ILB that can get off blocks and contribute in coverage (and pass rush) is going to hold value. The 2-gap 3-4 can be a hindrance, though, so the skill set and responsibility within the defense is important.

What does that deeper understanding of schemes predict for 2009? It would strongly suggest that D.J. Williams and Patrick Willis are good bets for big production. Assuming the Steelers provide enough tackle opportunity, Lawrence Timmons should have good value. Plenty of 2-gap and hybrid 3-4 ILBs should continue to be productive - Channing Crowder, Jerod Mayo, Bart Scott, D'Qwell Jackson, Karlos Dansby, Derrick Johnson among others. And we'll need to watch the Dallas defense very closely during the preseason. Keith Brooking has been productive as an every-down WILB before (2002 in Atlanta). If he plays in the nickel, he could be a sneaky sleeper and cut down on the numbers Bradie James was putting up in late 2008.

The under shifted 3-4 front, with or without a 2-gap end, is just one of many potential variations a coordinator may align his front seven. There are all kinds of potential alignments. In fact, a coach influenced by both flavors of the 3-4 might be tempted to meld both concepts with traditional 4-3 ideas and create a monster playbook with more than 50 fronts. And pull it off with amazing success.

Thoughts???

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The Colts don't have four great linebackers...

Everyone should read this, it's about Baltimores Hybrid D which allows a better transition for Freeney and or Mathis, but will require three new linemen

http://mobile.baltim...e-ravens-hybrid

I agree we do not have 4 great LBs. However, quality LBs can be drafted later than quality D-linemen since there will be a bigger pool to choose from with LBs, IMO. Having done it with the Chargers, Cowboys and Texans in year 1, Wade Philips' 1-gap 3-4 just shows how easier it is to turn around a defense with that concept.

Haloti Ngata makes that hybrid tick, IMO. Unless we know for sure we are getting a Haloti Ngata for the ultimate hybrid D-lineman (via draft or free agency), it would take way too much revamping than leveraging a lot of pieces we already have if we go with the 1-gap 3-4 for the 3-4 fronts, thus keeping the 1-gap responsibilities easier to understand, IMO.

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IMO, it could now. We need a NT through draft or FA. We have good LBs in Angerer, Wheeler and Connor as all three had over 100 tackles each. Make Angerer your WILB. Move Connor in as the SILB as he has better knowledge of coming off blocks as an OLB. Put Wheeler as SLB and stand Mathis up as WLB. Draft another LB and try Hughes and Freeney(if still here) as back-ups outside. Move Nevis put to 5 or 7 technique and use Moala at other end for 3 or 5 technique as needed.

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It's been a while since we had some good "football head" discussion going on here. Thanks Chad, this is awesome.

I agree, the 1-gap system (which is what the Texans are using and what the Cowboys used) is much easier to adapt to with the personnel we have, and you can use many of the same linemen on the interior. We still don't have the five-tech ends (JJ Watt and Antonio Smith are perfect for this in Houston), although Fili Moala would be a prime candidate. Can't ask Nevis to play five-tech; ask Warren Sapp. Maybe Rico Mathews could play five-tech, but that's a project. We'd need at least two new defensive linemen, and I don't think it would be smart to spend money in free agency on a player that's only going to play 15-20 snaps a game. Would rather that be a rookie role, or maybe secondary free agency. Unless we can keep Brayton or Anderson, both of whom would work as part time five techs.

By the way, I still think we could get much more out of Jerry Hughes as a stand-up rusher.

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IMO, it could now. We need a NT through draft or FA. We have good LBs in Angerer, Wheeler and Connor as all three had over 100 tackles each. Make Angerer your WILB. Move Connor in as the SILB as he has better knowledge of coming off blocks as an OLB. Put Wheeler as SLB and stand Mathis up as WLB. Draft another LB and try Hughes and Freeney(if still here) as back-ups outside. Move Nevis put to 5 or 7 technique and use Moala at other end for 3 or 5 technique as needed.

Good thoughts. I'll just say again, moving Nevis to five-tech is a waste of his talent. One of the best three-techs of all time was lost trying to play five-tech in Oakland. Just let him be what he is.

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I based Nevis' move on his college play. Has the skills and power for 3 technique, but inconsistant motor. I was thinking Nevis would be able to set the edge as he does have a fast first step and the power to move the blocker/s into the running lanes and slow down back.

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I based Nevis' move on his college play. Has the skills and power for 3 technique, but inconsistant motor. I was thinking Nevis would be able to set the edge as he does have a fast first step and the power to move the blocker/s into the running lanes and slow down back.

Setting the edge is bare minimum for a five-tech end. He needs to be able to shed blockers and be disruptive. He'd be either going against double teams from centers and guards, or he'd be on the backside of the play. You'd have to overload his side with rushers in order to get him favorable matchups.

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Great post. Mathews and Moala have played in this style. Anderson and Brayton can adapt. If Freeney, Mathis, Hughes, and the players brought in from Canada can adapt the Colts only need two players to make this work in 2012. We need a NT drafted in the 2nd round and we need to try to sign Carlos Rogers for CB.

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Setting the edge is bare minimum for a five-tech end. He needs to be able to shed blockers and be disruptive. He'd be either going against double teams from centers and guards, or he'd be on the backside of the play. You'd have to overload his side with rushers in order to get him favorable matchups.

Understand. I am hoping new coaching staff will light a fire under him and get him to play to his potential. He has what is needed to do the job, but not the desire. I am hoping by moving him out, that that speed he supposedly has a well as the strength he has, that he can play the position.
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Understand. I am hoping new coaching staff will light a fire under him and get him to play to his potential. He has what is needed to do the job, but not the desire. I am hoping by moving him out, that that speed he supposedly has a well as the strength he has, that he can play the position.

Are we talking about Drake Nevis? Sounds like you're talking about Tony Ugoh. I never saw any lack of desire or playing to his potential from Drake Nevis.

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Are we talking about Drake Nevis? Sounds like you're talking about Tony Ugoh. I never saw any lack of desire or playing to his potential from Drake Nevis.

Yes, I am talking about Drake Nevis. If Nevis in college had played up to his potential, we would not got him in the 3rd round because he would have went higher. He has all the tools, but an inconsistant motor. Nevis was blocked by 1 guard and he has the skills to be better. My thought was by moving hhim outside and give him a chance for a fast move at the snap, he will do better. I could be wrong and you my be right, but that is my opinion.
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Yes, I am talking about Drake Nevis. If Nevis in college had played up to his potential, we would not got him in the 3rd round because he would have went higher.

That was because he came along late in his college career, plus his playing weight was around the 290-300 lb range which made scouts pigeon hole him to the 3-tech which he was suited to, plus LSU stunk it in college. I do believe that the same player, if his FBS school does better in the NCAA, does get drafted a tad higher. If Drake Nevis played for this year's LSU, like that Brockers guy, he would have been drafted higher.

http://www.cbssports...randon-thompson

Read a key part of this:

Two years ago a relatively unknown defensive tackle from LSU enjoyed a strong second half of his junior season, laying the foundation for a breakout 2010 campaign. Drake Nevis started zero games in 2009, yet still led his team's defensive linemen with 50 stops, including 11 tackles for loss and four sacks. Nearly half of that production came in the final five games of the season. A year later, his numbers weren't that much more impressive (56 tackles, 13 tackles for loss, six sacks), yet he went from being an unheralded backup to an All-American.

Clemson's Brandon Thompson appears capable of following a similar path.

A little taller and just as quick off the snap as Nevis,

The bottomline is, Nevis' draft stock was affected more by how LSU did, and how Nevis' production got better as a late bloomer than exclusively because of his bad work ethic. The fact that he was a late bloomer, to me, it could mean several things including the work ethic you mentioned. Someone that followed LSU closely could shed more light on that. He was ranked No.63 as a prospect in the 2011 draft and did drop a bit but as we saw, he plays bigger than his size.

Maybe his production gets more consistent now that he is playing with the big boys.

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Yes, I am talking about Drake Nevis. If Nevis in college had played up to his potential, we would not got him in the 3rd round because he would have went higher. He has all the tools, but an inconsistant motor. Nevis was blocked by 1 guard and he has the skills to be better. My thought was by moving hhim outside and give him a chance for a fast move at the snap, he will do better. I could be wrong and you my be right, but that is my opinion.

What are you talking about. Nevis has a great motor. I heard his stock dropped in the draft due to the length of his arms.

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If they colts plan on using a hybrid defense, then when they use a 3-4 they should definitely use a 1-gap scheme. A 2-gap scheme doesn't fit our players very well if at all. The problem is that the 1-gap scheme is pretty rare from what I understand, or at least in the NFL it is. I'm pretty sure Wade Philips is the only coach who uses it and he coaches the Texans.

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Yes, I am talking about Drake Nevis. If Nevis in college had played up to his potential, we would not got him in the 3rd round because he would have went higher. He has all the tools, but an inconsistant motor. Nevis was blocked by 1 guard and he has the skills to be better. My thought was by moving hhim outside and give him a chance for a fast move at the snap, he will do better. I could be wrong and you my be right, but that is my opinion.

I don't know about that. I think he has a great motor and plays with great energy. He was battling a weird injury last season that I'm still not sure isn't a cause for concern, and he was playing in a defensive scheme that left the linemen out to dry every down. And he still looked good.

And the thing about moving him to the five-tech is that a) he'll be blocked by better linemen, and b) he'll be double-teamed more often. Five-tech is a thankless position. If you think he has motivation issues now (which I don't know where you get that from, but okay), just wait until you try to play him at five-tech.

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Oh, I don't know a whole lot about some of the retired players. I didn't know he left or was traded from Tampa Bay.

He played in Dungy's 1-gap system in Tampa Bay, and was probably the best three-tech tackle in the NFL. Then he signed with the Raiders, who started experimenting with a 3-4. They played Sapp as a five-tech end, and he would later say it was the worst season of his career. He only had two sacks that entire year, when he'd averaged 9 sacks a year for eight season. The next year, they moved him back to tackle, and he returned to the top of the league. A year after that, he was back up to 10 sacks, as a 34 year old defensive tackle.

Sapp is a perfect example of why you can't just take a defensive tackle and put him at end in a 3-4 because he's big and does a good job of shedding blocks. It doesn't work that way.

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If they colts plan on using a hybrid defense, then when they use a 3-4 they should definitely use a 1-gap scheme. A 2-gap scheme doesn't fit our players very well if at all. The problem is that the 1-gap scheme is pretty rare from what I understand, or at least in the NFL it is. I'm pretty sure Wade Philips is the only coach who uses it and he coaches the Texans.

It's nothing new; been around for 30 years. It uses a lot of the same principles of the defense we've been running for ten years, just with more variables. And it allows you to switch between a three-down and four-down alignment with relative ease. The Texans did this last season, using Mario Williams as both an end and a stand-up pass rusher in one set of downs. We could switch back and forth between a three-down and four-down formation without even subbing.

A lot of noise was made last season about how they'd use Mario Williams, but the more important players to that defense, even early on, were Antonio Smith and JJ Watt, both five-tech ends. Without them, Williams and Brooks Reed and the other OLB/DE wouldn't have been nearly as effective. Problem with our roster is that we don't have those kind of linemen to play five-tech. I don't know who will be available in the draft, but there are a lot of teams playing three-down alignments these days, so those guys are more costly than they've been before.

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Nevis would be just fine playing inside even in the 3-4 hybrid Pagano will be running. He is much more suited to play there then outside. His quickness off the snap and ability to penetrate could turn him into one of the better DTs in the league. Guys that could play outside would be Moala, Anderson, Brayton, and maybe even Ogbu if he's developing. I like Nevis and Rico working as a tandem at the 'nose' position. It'd be cool though if Pagano can bring Redding over, cuz that shores up the line if you ask me.

Either way though, I don't see any way we could operate a 3-4 in the way Pittsburgh runs it. Not enough girth up front. We'd have to thrive on quickness and penetration....much like Houston did this year. And I'd be alright with a Houston-caliber defense.

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I am sorry but I am going to give an unbiased perspective of this Colts team. There are 0 I repeat 0 3-4 DE's on this team! Unless they play a one gap, this defensive roster needs an overhaul! Mookie and Moala can't handle 1 on 1 matchups yet most of you think they can handle double teams? I would seriously cut them both cause they suck in any scheme. Nevis cannot play DE, he is a one gap penetrator, unless it's a one gap 3-4. I posted a great article about responsibilities in the Ravens hybrid, and ironically the Colts are well set at OLB. They need one ILB, I say Bradham, but they need 3 new D linemen. In this scheme it should be DT's that are slightly too small too play NT but have great motors, my two favorite are Reyes and Randal. A NT in FA like Franklin and maybe a DE like Bryant/Redding would have this D on point!

Kheeston Randal, Aubrayo Franklin, Redding

Freeney, Bradham, Angerer, Mathis

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Good thoughts. I'll just say again, moving Nevis to five-tech is a waste of his talent. One of the best three-techs of all time was lost trying to play five-tech in Oakland. Just let him be what he is.

i agree...but if we are moving to 3 4 (regardless of what type of 3-4) he is a waste cause he just doesnt fit.... how can we let him be what he is when we are going 3 4?

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i agree...but if we are moving to 3 4 (regardless of what type of 3-4) he is a waste cause he just doesnt fit.... how can we let him be what he is when we are going 3 4?

By using the 1 tech. People have talked about. In that D, the Dline's job is to choose a gap and shoot it. Hopefully get penetration and disrupt the play behind the line. Which is exactly what Nevis does best. He is a perfect fit in that type of 3-4

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i agree...but if we are moving to 3 4 (regardless of what type of 3-4) he is a waste cause he just doesnt fit.... how can we let him be what he is when we are going 3 4?

We're not going full 3-4. I don't think he fits in any 3-4, though he'd be better in a 1-gap 3-4 at tackle. But word is we're going to be a hybrid defense, which means Nevis can play in four-down alignments and do what he does well.

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I am sorry but I am going to give an unbiased perspective of this Colts team. There are 0 I repeat 0 3-4 DE's on this team! Unless they play a one gap, this defensive roster needs an overhaul! Mookie and Moala can't handle 1 on 1 matchups yet most of you think they can handle double teams? I would seriously cut them both cause they suck in any scheme. Nevis cannot play DE, he is a one gap penetrator, unless it's a one gap 3-4. I posted a great article about responsibilities in the Ravens hybrid, and ironically the Colts are well set at OLB. They need one ILB, I say Bradham, but they need 3 new D linemen. In this scheme it should be DT's that are slightly too small too play NT but have great motors, my two favorite are Reyes and Randal. A NT in FA like Franklin and maybe a DE like Bryant/Redding would have this D on point! Kheeston Randal, Aubrayo Franklin, Redding Freeney, Bradham, Angerer, Mathis

You forgot about our weak spot... The Secondary!

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DE NT DE:Drake Nevis

Mathis Brackett Angerer Freeney

CB SS FS:Betha CB:Powers.

It can be done we just need 4 players to make it happen. We really need a corner that can handle a true one on one. I'd like us to have a "bend and break'em" defense. We're built off of speed. For years I've been trying to say we need to attack more based off that speed!

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DE NT DE:Drake Nevis

Mathis Brackett Angerer Freeney

CB SS FS:Betha CB:Powers.

It can be done we just need 4 players to make it happen. We really need a corner that can handle a true one on one. I'd like us to have a "bend and break'em" defense. We're built off of speed. For years I've been trying to say we need to attack more based off that speed!

Or we could just get 2-3 more pieces to have a very good 4-3 defense.

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4 pieces 4-3, SS,CB, NT, OLB

7 pieces 3-4, 2DE, NT, 2LB, SS, CB

Yeah, but I was going the minimum like he did. I'd say 3 for a 4-3 defense, CB, NT, and SS. A stud OLB would be nice, but it is a smaller need compared to the other 3.

The biggest problem at LB would probably be Kavell Conner's weakness in coverage in my opinion. He needs to improve on that.

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Yeah, but I was going the minimum like he did. I'd say 3 for a 4-3 defense, CB, NT, and SS. A stud OLB would be nice, but it is a smaller need compared to the other 3.

The biggest problem at LB would probably be Kavell Conner's weakness in coverage in my opinion. He needs to improve on that.

I think Conner is serviceable.. But another LB is necessary in a 4-3. The 3-4 needs an ILB, Bradham would transition for either flawlessly. Conner and Harvey can be back ups.

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I think Conner is serviceable.. But another LB is necessary in a 4-3. The 3-4 needs an ILB, Bradham would transition for either flawlessly. Conner and Harvey can be back ups.

I didn't say Conner was bad overall, he just isn't that good in coverage. I think he is serviceable, hopefully he can get better. You know I like Philip Wheeler, and Angerer played well last year. Plus there's Gary Brackett and Ernie Sims to think about. We have a pretty good group of linebackers in my opinion. If we have an extra pick after addressing all of our needs (of course from a trade down...) then a value at OLB would be a good choice. That's why I usually pick Sean Spence in the 4th round, or Vontaize Burfict or someone talented like him would be nice, just not ahead of a NT, CB, SS, and probably OG.

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Thoughts???
Thanks for the piece it was excellent and informative. And, IMO, the Colts are a NT and J. Johnson away from being able to run this type of D effectively. People want to knock the players on the Colts D and some of them deserve it, but overall, the D has some talent on it they were just hijacked by an incompetent DC (and that was Coyer's MO... look good at first but then teams realized his pattern and predictability and exploited and Coyer's response was not to change things up but get more and more basic the more teams exploited him and then you get things like the Tampa game where the Colts had the lead in the 1st half and start dropping the back 7 15 yards deep and let them score).

Get Ta'Amu in the draft and then I like the rotation of Moala, Nevis, Anderson and perhaps Ogbu (or draft pick) at the DE spot.

Then Angerer/Conner at the ILB spot

Johnson (FA, the stars are lining up too perfect for the Colts NOT to get this guy)/Wheeler at the OLB spot

And this D could work. Judging by the CBs of the Ravens for the last few years, I think Pagano is really going to like Rucker and KT, Powers as well but he's too injury prone. Then Bethea and Lefeged (or draft pick) .

Then when the Colts go to a nickel or 4-3 pass D you bring in Freeney-Mathis (if he's on the team) at the DE spots with Anderson and Nevis at the DT spots and you get to provide a rush with some guys who are staying fairly fresh because of the hybrid type D and rotation.

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