Winning on the road shows character

[AustexColt]

Yes, the Texans were really bad offensively but we won. I am not sure why we soften up our defense in the later part of the game? They know it doesn't work and yet they do it time and again. Why??? It seems to me that the play calling really goes lacking in the 2Half. 

[BR-549]

Your writeup doesn't really match the title but thats okay...

 

I agree.  The team played with a little heart yesterday.  It felt like they had something to prove, or that they played with a chip.

 

I also agree that it is confusing why we take the foot off the gas in the second half when we have a lead.  Playing press man much of the first half and then relaxing with a cushion during most of the second half makes no sense.

 

Not to mention that it was all Gore and Doyle offensively in the second half.  No well designed attacking plays what-so-ever.  Ones that manipulate a defense and are creative in a way that allows someone like Mack to get out in the open with his speed and a somewhat tired defense trying to stop him.  Say a safe wheel route or stretch play... Idk.  It was depressing for the most part watching the second half and the lead dwindling.

 

There is no rule against kicking them while they are down in the NFL

[OLD FAN MAN]

17 minutes ago, BR-549 said:

Your writeup doesn't really match the title but thats okay...

 

I agree.  The team played with a little heart yesterday.  It felt like they had something to prove, or that they played with a chip.

 

I also agree that it is confusing why we take the foot off the gas in the second half when we have a lead.  Playing press man much of the first half and then relaxing with a cushion during most of the second half makes no sense.

 

Not to mention that it was all Gore and Doyle offensively in the second half.  No well designed attacking plays what-so-ever.  Ones that manipulate a defense and are creative in a way that allows someone like Mack to get out in the open with his speed and a somewhat tired defense trying to stop him.  Say a safe wheel route or stretch play... Idk.  It was depressing for the most part watching the second half and the lead dwindling.

 

There is no rule against kicking them while they are down in the NFL

i concur

[BR-549]

Just now, OLD FAN MAN said:

i concur

I feel special OFM.  This is the first time that I have been awarded such a prestigious reply...

 

 

Just funning with you... 

[crazycolt1]

18 minutes ago, BR-549 said:

Your writeup doesn't really match the title but thats okay...

 

I agree.  The team played with a little heart yesterday.  It felt like they had something to prove, or that they played with a chip.

 

I also agree that it is confusing why we take the foot off the gas in the second half when we have a lead.  Playing press man much of the first half and then relaxing with a cushion during most of the second half makes no sense.

 

Not to mention that it was all Gore and Doyle offensively in the second half.  No well designed attacking plays what-so-ever.  Ones that manipulate a defense and are creative in a way that allows someone like Mack to get out in the open with his speed and a somewhat tired defense trying to stop him.  Say a safe wheel route or stretch play... Idk.  It was depressing for the most part watching the second half and the lead dwindling.

 

There is no rule against kicking them while they are down in the NFL

You think the Jags, Titans or the Texans enjoy kicking the Colts while they are down?  Hades No!!  Especially when you look at their total records against them.

[BR-549]

1 minute ago, crazycolt1 said:

You think the Jags, Titans or the Texans enjoy kicking the Colts while they are down?  Hades No!!  Especially when you look at their total records against them.

Not sure I follow you CC1?  Sarcasm perhaps?

 

I am just trying to say that why stop doing what works.  It wasn't like we had a insurmountable lead and it has been proven already this year that we can easily lose a two touchdown lead.  Hell, it happened last year with Luck even.  We have been on both sides of that equation.

 

I think we should have kept up with the same D game plan at a minimum, but also put at least a little effort into trying to put one more score on the board.

 

 

[crazycolt1]

1 minute ago, BR-549 said:

Not sure I follow you CC1?  Sarcasm perhaps?

 

I am just trying to say that why stop doing what works.  It wasn't like we had a insurmountable lead and it has been proven already this year that we can easily lose a two touchdown lead.  Hell, it happened last year with Luck even.  We have been on both sides of that equation.

 

I think we should have kept up with the same D game plan at a minimum, but also put at least a little effort into trying to put one more score on the board.

 

 

Yep, it was sarcasm. I guess I should have been more specific.

[BR-549]

Just now, crazycolt1 said:

Yep, it was sarcasm. I guess I should have been more specific.

I thought so and I should have known... wasn't sure though.  Thanks for clearing it up.

[a06cc]

Something I have noticed about the team. Our defense is gassed at the end of games. We have to do a better job on offense. The statistics have us almost last in defense. However their a better unit then last years. Having Andrew would fix some of that of course. Just me or do we need a new coordinator?

[richard pallo]

6 minutes ago, a06cc said:

Something I have noticed about the team. Our defense is gassed at the end of games. We have to do a better job on offense. The statistics have us almost last in defense. However their a better unit then last years. Having Andrew would fix some of that of course. Just me or do we need a new coordinator?

I don't think he would change coordinators now but the bye week is only a week away so who knows.  In a way I wouldn't mind Chuck taking over the defense and seeing if he would get away from the soft coverage.  Of course he could always direct Monachino to play it less and be more aggressive with press coverage. 

[a06cc]

5 hours ago, richard pallo said:

I don't think he would change coordinators now but the bye week is only a week away so who knows.  In a way I wouldn't mind Chuck taking over the defense and seeing if he would get away from the soft coverage.  Of course he could always direct Monachino to play it less and be more aggressive with press coverage. 

Chud’s offense is a slight problem. But the oline doesn’t help is cause. He is a top o coordinator, but his older teams had the line to protect the QB. 

[Jason_]

9 hours ago, a06cc said:

Chud’s offense is a slight problem. But the oline doesn’t help is cause. He is a top o coordinator, but his older teams had the line to protect the QB. 

 

But it's chuds job to design an offense around the strengths of his team and do everything he can to mask the weaknesses. He should be modifying his offense to account for the struggles in pass protection 

[DaColts85]

3 hours ago, J@son said:

 

But it's chuds job to design an offense around the strengths of his team and do everything he can to mask the weaknesses. He should be modifying his offense to account for the struggles in pass protection 

This is why Chud to me is not even close to a top OC.  He has had both success and failure in the league but with our team he has shown that he cannot adapt that well.  A weak line and brand new QB, you would think you would be running some nice simple quick setup plays.  Nope, let's do long developing 7-step drops with the WR's running to the end zone each snap.  No line to help with a 5-step let alone this garbage.  Oh and then lets follow this up with the same repetitive run up the middle. 

 

The Texans game showed a little promise when he would randomly have TY run a nice shallow route or crossing route.  YAC finally happened because we allowed it to happen. 

[a06cc]

7 hours ago, J@son said:

 

But it's chuds job to design an offense around the strengths of his team and do everything he can to mask the weaknesses. He should be modifying his offense to account for the struggles in pass protection 

Which he has tried to do. Hard to run plays when the defense is in your back in less than 2 seconds. Seen CBS clock the speed of defense attacking us. 

[shasta519]

3 hours ago, DaColts85 said:

This is why Chud to me is not even close to a top OC.  He has had both success and failure in the league but with our team he has shown that he cannot adapt that well.  A weak line and brand new QB, you would think you would be running some nice simple quick setup plays.  Nope, let's do long developing 7-step drops with the WR's running to the end zone each snap.  No line to help with a 5-step let alone this garbage.  Oh and then lets follow this up with the same repetitive run up the middle. 

 

The Texans game showed a little promise when he would randomly have TY run a nice shallow route or crossing route.  YAC finally happened because we allowed it to happen. 

 

Yep. He is easily one of the worst OCs in the NFL. At times he has had a decent script of 15 or so plays to start a game. But after those plays are up, he seems to have nothing, so he goes into this predictable mode...which is what he knows.

 

His entire offense is focused on a WR1 and a TE1...with the other WRs being non-factors (possibly because they are busy running poorly-designed routes). This past game was no different...as Hilton and Doyle got more than 60% of the targets and were clearly the focal points of the first and second half, respectively. He just has no idea how to use secondary WRs, which probably contributes to QBs staring down WRs (Luck and Brissett have both done this with Chud at OC) because those other guys aren't getting open.  

 

And his inability to incorporate Mack into the passing game (as well as just use him in general) is both frustrating and confusing. He's obviously a dynamic player who can make big plays in space. Yet Chud makes little to no effort to get him in space. This inability to correctly utilize RBs in the modern NFL is a huge disadvantage for the Colts. I am almost glad they didn't draft someone like Kamara (or Hunt), because Chud would have been clueless on how to use him.

 

Sure, it's not all Chud's fault...but he does himself no favors when it comes to playcalling and design. And given the way the NFL is going, I think this will be his last OC job for a while. 

[DaColts85]

15 hours ago, a06cc said:

Which he has tried to do. Hard to run plays when the defense is in your back in less than 2 seconds. Seen CBS clock the speed of defense attacking us. 

Completely false.  You might have seen them clock the speed once, but there have been multiple occasions when Brissett has had nearly 4 or 5 seconds to throw the ball.  He holds it too long and sometimes this is all on him and other times it is because we continuously run long developing plays.  He has a higher average of time with the ball in his hand before throwing it actually.  You have to try and mask the line if that is a weakness, do not show it every single week like Chud does.  You have to adapt or you die, brutal analogy but if he does not adapt his job is gone, or possibly his career in the NFL.

[George Peterson]

On 11/6/2017 at 7:08 PM, a06cc said:

Something I have noticed about the team. Our defense is gassed at the end of games. We have to do a better job on offense. The statistics have us almost last in defense. However their a better unit then last years. Having Andrew would fix some of that of course. Just me or do we need a new coordinator?

What y'all need is better physical conditioning.  If your players are gassing out after halftime, then they need to do a lot more running in practice.  The Patriots are gods of the second half because they do the extra work in practice to prepare both mentally and physically.  No team that won't put in the work to be as fit as possible goes anywhere.

 

The offense can also help a lot by burning clock.  Three and outs are a defense's worst enemy.  The longer the offense has possession of the ball, the better the defense is gonna look after the 45th minute.  An offensive scheme that steals a few extra first downs goes a long way to improving the D

[a06cc]

39 minutes ago, DaColts85 said:

Completely false.  You might have seen them clock the speed once, but there have been multiple occasions when Brissett has had nearly 4 or 5 seconds to throw the ball.  He holds it too long and sometimes this is all on him and other times it is because we continuously run long developing plays.  He has a higher average of time with the ball in his hand before throwing it actually.  You have to try and mask the line if that is a weakness, do not show it every single week like Chud does.  You have to adapt or you die, brutal analogy but if he does not adapt his job is gone, or possibly his career in the NFL.

I’m not denying JB holding onto the ball long at all. The Jags game 3 of the 10 sack were on him. That’s complete nonsense your talking about in my honest opinion. You can’t mask inexperience. Why do you think Ty called out the line after that game? Chud has tried to make adjustments. Even Chuck pointed out the play before the strip sack against HOU. They came on a blitz the play before and AC blocked his guy up. They then came with that same blitz, but AC was slow to react thus leading to him getting beat. We keep blame the coach. After rewatching the games it’s on the players. I have a link to rewatch the games. You can PM me if you would like to see them. 

[George Peterson]

As for the team showing some heart, that doesn't surprise me.  One of the things that always impressed me about Jacoby Brissett is how game he was.  Week 4 last year he took the field with a broken thumb on his throwing hand.  He could have sat out and people would have understood, an injured thumb is no joke for a QB, but he wanted the ball.  This after stage managing a beatdown of Houston last year despite barely knowing the playbook.  Hardly out of training camp in his first year, Brisset was showing he had an NFL heart.  That's the kind of guy he is, not the best field QB, but he's got leadership skills to match anybody's.  Any team he leads is going to put up a fight if he has anything to say about it.

[a06cc]

28 minutes ago, George Peterson said:

What y'all need is better physical conditioning.  If your players are gassing out after halftime, then they need to do a lot more running in practice.  The Patriots are gods of the second half because they do the extra work in practice to prepare both mentally and physically.  No team that won't put in the work to be as fit as possible goes anywhere.

 

The offense can also help a lot by burning clock.  Three and outs are a defense's worst enemy.  The longer the offense has possession of the ball, the better the defense is gonna look after the 45th minute.  An offensive scheme that steals a few extra first downs goes a long way to improving the D

You have proved my point about need a new offensive scheme. The defense is gassed because for several games they been on the field for longer periods of time than our offense. Our coach had tried to make adjustments. Doesn’t help have a guy who didn’t go through a camp either.

[George Peterson]

5 minutes ago, a06cc said:

You have proved my point about need a new offensive scheme. The defense is gassed because for several games they been on the field for longer periods of time than our offense. Our coach had tried to make adjustments. Doesn’t help have a guy who didn’t go through a camp either.

No it doesn't.  On the other hand, it's week 9.  If they haven't figured out what Brissett can do for this offense by now, training camp or not, then they're not going to. 

 

Also no offensive scheme is going to work well if the pieces aren't there, and the offensive line is a huge piece of the attack.  Offensive line sets up both the run and the pass, you need good protection to run pass plays, and if you are going to run against a good defensive line your OLers need to be making holes for the running back.  The best offensive scheme in the world isn't going to work if the offensive line in particular can't pull their weight.

 

IMHO most of the offensive weakness of the team comes to the poor offensive line.  Fix that, and even an average OC can make the rest of the offense work.

[a06cc]

2 minutes ago, George Peterson said:

No it doesn't.  On the other hand, it's week 9.  If they haven't figured out what Brissett can do for this offense by now, training camp or not, then they're not going to. 

He is basically a rookie for us. You can’t open up the full playbook. It’s week 8 for him, plus our oline sucks. It doesn’t help either cause. And from judging your profile picture I’m not going to even hear anything you have to say about guys needing conditioning  

[George Peterson]

I think Brissett has a lot of talent, and there's a large "what have we got to lose?" factor arguing in favor of opening up the playbook right now.  You're in a position where you can almost use the rest of the season as an extended training camp, especially because he's basically a rookie for you.  I don't think there's too many things the Colts can do right now that are more useful than developing and training Brissett, either as insurance for Luck or as a trade chip.

[DaColts85]

42 minutes ago, a06cc said:

I’m not denying JB holding onto the ball long at all. The Jags game 3 of the 10 sack were on him. That’s complete nonsense your talking about in my honest opinion. You can’t mask inexperience. Why do you think Ty called out the line after that game? Chud has tried to make adjustments. Even Chuck pointed out the play before the strip sack against HOU. They came on a blitz the play before and AC blocked his guy up. They then came with that same blitz, but AC was slow to react thus leading to him getting beat. We keep blame the coach. After rewatching the games it’s on the players. I have a link to rewatch the games. You can PM me if you would like to see them. 

I completely agree with you that it is on the players and not just the coaches.  TY calling the line out to me has little to do with the Jags game.  We as a team did not show up, INCLUDING TY and the other receivers.  Now inexperience is and will be a factor, which is why I do not like Chud in his current role.  With a young inexperienced QB the OC should help them, correct?  Helping them is not running long developing plays when you know the line is not that great.  Chud has not tried to do anything to fix this either.  Houston, 1st half we ran some great plays to help, but he still went back to the same crap towards the end of the 1st half and all day in the 2nd half.

 

When a team blitzes and our line is bad, this does not help the QB.  Regardless if it is Luck or JB.  So you mentioning that further helps my point.  You see 5, 6, or 7 guys coming on multiple plays then do something to help that.  JB will get a little more comfortable eventually, but Chud needs to see this and make ADJUSTMENTS.  He does not and we run a 7 step drop and guess what.....the blitz works and JB is sacked.  Broken record with this!

[Coltfreak]

17 hours ago, shastamasta said:

 

Yep. He is easily one of the worst OCs in the NFL. At times he has had a decent script of 15 or so plays to start a game. But after those plays are up, he seems to have nothing, so he goes into this predictable mode...which is what he knows.

 

His entire offense is focused on a WR1 and a TE1...with the other WRs being non-factors (possibly because they are busy running poorly-designed routes). This past game was no different...as Hilton and Doyle got more than 60% of the targets and were clearly the focal points of the first and second half, respectively. He just has no idea how to use secondary WRs, which probably contributes to QBs staring down WRs (Luck and Brissett have both done this with Chud at OC) because those other guys aren't getting open.  

 

And his inability to incorporate Mack into the passing game (as well as just use him in general) is both frustrating and confusing. He's obviously a dynamic player who can make big plays in space. Yet Chud makes little to no effort to get him in space. This inability to correctly utilize RBs in the modern NFL is a huge disadvantage for the Colts. I am almost glad they didn't draft someone like Kamara (or Hunt), because Chud would have been clueless on how to use him.

 

Sure, it's not all Chud's fault...but he does himself no favors when it comes to playcalling and design. And given the way the NFL is going, I think this will be his last OC job for a while. 

Great post

[Jason_]

1 hour ago, George Peterson said:

No it doesn't.  On the other hand, it's week 9.  If they haven't figured out what Brissett can do for this offense by now, training camp or not, then they're not going to. 

 

Also no offensive scheme is going to work well if the pieces aren't there, and the offensive line is a huge piece of the attack.  Offensive line sets up both the run and the pass, you need good protection to run pass plays, and if you are going to run against a good defensive line your OLers need to be making holes for the running back.  The best offensive scheme in the world isn't going to work if the offensive line in particular can't pull their weight.

 

IMHO most of the offensive weakness of the team comes to the poor offensive line.  Fix that, and even an average OC can make the rest of the offense work.

 

the point is though that there are things Chud could do to alter the offense to help somewhat mask the poor OL play.  more 3 step drops, quick hitting pass routes, screens, draw plays etc.  He has done this from time to time but not nearly enough in most people's opinions.

[DaColts85]

1 hour ago, George Peterson said:

No it doesn't.  On the other hand, it's week 9.  If they haven't figured out what Brissett can do for this offense by now, training camp or not, then they're not going to. 

 

Also no offensive scheme is going to work well if the pieces aren't there, and the offensive line is a huge piece of the attack.  Offensive line sets up both the run and the pass, you need good protection to run pass plays, and if you are going to run against a good defensive line your OLers need to be making holes for the running back.  The best offensive scheme in the world isn't going to work if the offensive line in particular can't pull their weight.

 

IMHO most of the offensive weakness of the team comes to the poor offensive line.  Fix that, and even an average OC can make the rest of the offense work.

I see what you are trying to say but you are right and wrong with some points.  One team, Seattle Seahwaks, before trading for Duane Brown, had one of the worst lines in the NFL.  Like really bad.  What do they do on offense though?  Move Wilson to make plays and mask the line.  Have good screen plays and quick plays again to get the ball out quick.  He is someone that can move with options and things but you can try to develop something similar for JB.  The point is, YES, you can mask a bad line by playing to certain strengths.

[a06cc]

2 hours ago, DaColts85 said:

I completely agree with you that it is on the players and not just the coaches.  TY calling the line out to me has little to do with the Jags game.  We as a team did not show up, INCLUDING TY and the other receivers.  Now inexperience is and will be a factor, which is why I do not like Chud in his current role.  With a young inexperienced QB the OC should help them, correct?  Helping them is not running long developing plays when you know the line is not that great.  Chud has not tried to do anything to fix this either.  Houston, 1st half we ran some great plays to help, but he still went back to the same crap towards the end of the 1st half and all day in the 2nd half.

 

When a team blitzes and our line is bad, this does not help the QB.  Regardless if it is Luck or JB.  So you mentioning that further helps my point.  You see 5, 6, or 7 guys coming on multiple plays then do something to help that.  JB will get a little more comfortable eventually, but Chud needs to see this and make ADJUSTMENTS.  He does not and we run a 7 step drop and guess what.....the blitz works and JB is sacked.  Broken record with this!

He has tried to make adjustments. The protection just fails him. It’s a combination of factors. I’m not disagree about anything you have said. We have to look for an OC that best suits our QB. You just can’t put everything on Chud though is all I’m trying to say. 

[DaColts85]

12 minutes ago, a06cc said:

He has tried to make adjustments. The protection just fails him. It’s a combination of factors. I’m not disagree about anything you have said. We have to look for an OC that best suits our QB. You just can’t put everything on Chud though is all I’m trying to say. 

I agree with you.  It is not just Chud, and this year we have shown a lot of holes on this side of the ball.