Dorsett

[jshipp23]

57 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

This is just one of the excuses people use to defend bad Grigson picks. 

Maybe we just have TRASH coaches. ...

[WarGhost21]

Since this keeps popping up in the feed I am going to do my best to put it to rest. Dorsett isn't a "Bust" yet, but he sure hasn't lived up to expectations. I'm pretty sure that to be a bust in the NFL, you need to have more than just 2 years under your belt. If he keeps it up, then yes, he's headed in that direction, but he still has time to buck that trend.

 

First and foremost, it was mentioned more than once that it's disappointing that he fell behind Chester Rogers on the depth chart. In all reality, he didn't. Rogers was utilized more because Dorsett couldn't fill a #2 role when Moncrief was out due to the fact that TY has almost the exact same skill set as him. To be successful, you can't have 2 speed threats as your 1 and 2. You need a blend. Moncrief was the red zone threat to TY's deep ball threat. You put 2 deep ball threats together, it becomes very easy to cover. Rogers, on the other hand, has a similar skill set to Moncrief as a bigger red zone target, making him the only valid option to slide into #2. When Moncrief was healthy, Dorsett was ahead of Rogers on the depth chart anyway. 

 

Secondly, a lot of talk here is about how Dorsett hasn't produced. A few people seem to understand that it's hard to put up numbers when you aren't being utilized correctly. If you get sent deep almost every snap, the defense can easily remove you from the play. We need to utilize him more like Tyreek Hill. Hill ran many motions across the formation and either took the ball on a run or, to simply put it, move the defense with the threat of his big play ability. Dorsett is the same player, a big play threat with the ball in his hands. For him to be successful, he needs more slant routes and WR screens, where he gets the ball in his hands and then makes people miss, and less long routes where it takes him time to get open and Luck already has another option.

 

Finally, I have a simple question for every person who said he was already a bust after only 2 years: Why? What qualifies him as being a bust already when he doesn't get enough opportunities as it is and isn't even used right? I just want everyone to get off the kids back and give him a bit more of a chance. Give him another year, and if he still isn't producing then I might agree, but it's still way to early to give up on him. Terrell Pryor is 27 and just finally broke out this season as a legitimate threat at WR. Dorsett is only 24, so he still has time. Thanks for reading and I can only hope you all see where I'm coming from. 

[Andrew Luck fan club]

1 minute ago, WarGhost21 said:

Since this keeps popping up in the feed I am going to do my best to put it to rest. Dorsett isn't a "Bust" yet, but he sure hasn't lived up to expectations. I'm pretty sure that to be a bust in the NFL, you need to have more than just 2 years under your belt. If he keeps it up, then yes, he's headed in that direction, but he still has time to buck that trend.

 

First and foremost, it was mentioned more than once that it's disappointing that he fell behind Chester Rogers on the depth chart. In all reality, he didn't. Rogers was utilized more because Dorsett couldn't fill a #2 role when Moncrief was out due to the fact that TY has almost the exact same skill set as him. To be successful, you can't have 2 speed threats as your 1 and 2. You need a blend. Moncrief was the red zone threat to TY's deep ball threat. You put 2 deep ball threats together, it becomes very easy to cover. Rogers, on the other hand, has a similar skill set to Moncrief as a bigger red zone target, making him the only valid option to slide into #2. When Moncrief was healthy, Dorsett was ahead of Rogers on the depth chart anyway. 

 

Secondly, a lot of talk here is about how Dorsett hasn't produced. A few people seem to understand that it's hard to put up numbers when you aren't being utilized correctly. If you get sent deep almost every snap, the defense can easily remove you from the play. We need to utilize him more like Tyreek Hill. Hill ran many motions across the formation and either took the ball on a run or, to simply put it, move the defense with the threat of his big play ability. Dorsett is the same player, a big play threat with the ball in his hands. For him to be successful, he needs more slant routes and WR screens, where he gets the ball in his hands and then makes people miss, and less long routes where it takes him time to get open and Luck already has another option.

 

Finally, I have a simple question for every person who said he was already a bust after only 2 years: Why? What qualifies him as being a bust already when he doesn't get enough opportunities as it is and isn't even used right? I just want everyone to get off the kids back and give him a bit more of a chance. Give him another year, and if he still isn't producing then I might agree, but it's still way to early to give up on him. Terrell Pryor is 27 i believe and just finally broke out this season as a legitimate threat at WR. Dorsett is only 24, so he still has time. Thanks for reading and I can only hope you all see where I'm coming from. 

I can't speak for everyone. But I do not think he is a bust, I just think it was a very bad pick. I hated the pick. We needed defense and picked a wr out of all things. 

[jshipp23]

1 hour ago, WarGhost21 said:

Since this keeps popping up in the feed I am going to do my best to put it to rest. Dorsett isn't a "Bust" yet, but he sure hasn't lived up to expectations. I'm pretty sure that to be a bust in the NFL, you need to have more than just 2 years under your belt. If he keeps it up, then yes, he's headed in that direction, but he still has time to buck that trend.

 

First and foremost, it was mentioned more than once that it's disappointing that he fell behind Chester Rogers on the depth chart. In all reality, he didn't. Rogers was utilized more because Dorsett couldn't fill a #2 role when Moncrief was out due to the fact that TY has almost the exact same skill set as him. To be successful, you can't have 2 speed threats as your 1 and 2. You need a blend. Moncrief was the red zone threat to TY's deep ball threat. You put 2 deep ball threats together, it becomes very easy to cover. Rogers, on the other hand, has a similar skill set to Moncrief as a bigger red zone target, making him the only valid option to slide into #2. When Moncrief was healthy, Dorsett was ahead of Rogers on the depth chart anyway. 

 

Secondly, a lot of talk here is about how Dorsett hasn't produced. A few people seem to understand that it's hard to put up numbers when you aren't being utilized correctly. If you get sent deep almost every snap, the defense can easily remove you from the play. We need to utilize him more like Tyreek Hill. Hill ran many motions across the formation and either took the ball on a run or, to simply put it, move the defense with the threat of his big play ability. Dorsett is the same player, a big play threat with the ball in his hands. For him to be successful, he needs more slant routes and WR screens, where he gets the ball in his hands and then makes people miss, and less long routes where it takes him time to get open and Luck already has another option.

 

Finally, I have a simple question for every person who said he was already a bust after only 2 years: Why? What qualifies him as being a bust already when he doesn't get enough opportunities as it is and isn't even used right? I just want everyone to get off the kids back and give him a bit more of a chance. Give him another year, and if he still isn't producing then I might agree, but it's still way to early to give up on him. Terrell Pryor is 27 and just finally broke out this season as a legitimate threat at WR. Dorsett is only 24, so he still has time. Thanks for reading and I can only hope you all see where I'm coming from. 

Great post...100% nailed every aspect of the situation...

[jshipp23]

1 hour ago, Majin Vegeta said:

I can't speak for everyone. But I do not think he is a bust, I just think it was a very bad pick. I hated the pick. We needed defense and picked a wr out of all things. 

To everybody that keeps saying we need to draft defense what players would  you want to sacrifice on offense that we've picked? Should we have picked defense over Moncrief, Hilton, Mewhort, Kelly, Allen, Fleenor, Haeg, Clark...I guess you could say Dorsett, but what if TY gets hurt or wasn't resigned..We tried with Werner that didn't work out..We have a top 5 offense for a reason..Now we can focus more on the D..Every team has holes, at least we have a championship caliber offense, its not like we missed every pick and we did trade a 2nd for Davis which was a great move..We also picked nice players in Geathers, Anderson, Parry, Ridgeway..Green and Morrison have potential as well..We can significantly improve the defense this year, all we need is middle of the pack defense to contend..People act like all our picks were a waste, we do have a high caliber offense to show for it..We pick up a couple impact defenders in free agency and draft a couple starters on defense as well as a rb we aren't gonna be no baby...Add a good coach and we are cooking..

[Andrew Luck fan club]

6 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

To everybody that keeps saying we need to draft defense what players would  you want to sacrifice on offense that we've picked? Should we have picked defense over Moncrief, Hilton, Mewhort, Kelly, Allen, Fleenor, Haeg, Clark...I guess you could say Dorsett, but what if TY gets hurt or wasn't resigned..We tried with Werner that didn't work out..We have a top 5 offense for a reason..Now we can focus more on the D..Every team has holes, at least we have a championship caliber offense, its not like we missed every pick and we did trade a 2nd for Davis which was a great move..We also picked nice players in Geathers, Anderson, Parry, Ridgeway..Green and Morrison have potential as well..We can significantly improve the defense this year, all we need is middle of the pack defense to contend..People act like all our picks were a waste, we do have a high caliber offense to show for it..We pick up a couple impact defenders in free agency and draft a couple starters on defense as well as a rb we aren't gonna be no baby...Add a good coach and we are cooking..

Well that's who I was talking about sooo...

[jshipp23]

57 minutes ago, Majin Vegeta said:

Well that's who I was talking about sooo...

I still think Dorsett will pay off for us with the right coach we will see..

[jameszeigler834]

On ‎1‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 11:01 PM, AZColt11 said:

Not a bust but you could argue for value at that pick.  BUT, and this is important to remember, Wayne wasn't doing anything until his 3rd season.  I think we will know more after 2017, unless he's hurt again, at which point the decision will have already been determined.

What still aggravates me about that pick is there were Landon Collins and Brown either one would have made this defense a lot better and we took Dorsett and he has done very little and Moncrief missed almost half of the season.

[AKB]

It all comes down to scheme imo. Tyreke Hill and Dorsett are practically twins when it comes down to size and speed. 

 

We've used Dorsett as a decoy, and the Chiefs have used Hill as a real receiver/runner.z

[SaturdayAllDay]

45 minutes ago, jameszeigler834 said:

What still aggravates me about that pick is there were Landon Collins and Brown either one would have made this defense a lot better and we took Dorsett and he has done very little and Moncrief missed almost half of the season.

We cant know that either player would have turned out any better for us than Dorsett has. Sure Collins had an amazing year this season, but that was after being the worst safety in the NFL as a rookie. Which means he was coached up to his potential, something we are not seeing with a lot of young players here. For all we know he would be no better than Green was for us this year. 

[Indy1996]

Do you listen to yourself dorsett was a complete bust he never had a 100 yard game its not on the coaches its how the players perform you cant blame anyone beside yourself ill rather draft collins then dorsett anyday tbh

[Steamboat_Shaun]

On 1/11/2017 at 4:54 PM, Douzer said:

What's the definition of a bust?

 

Who wrote the definition?

 

In my head, the general definition is something like this; all 1st round players are expected to become starters on the team that drafted them, and any player who doesn't meet that expectation is a 'bust'.

If that is the standard, I think it's fair to say Dorsett is a starter, and that he'd probably have made the starting lineup on other teams too, so to me, 'bust' doesn't fit.

 

Personally, I believe that all 1st round players should be NFL ready, able to start day 1, impact players, like Andrew Luck and Ryan Kelly. My personal expectation of a 1st rounder is higher than what Dorsett has achieved, and to me, he didn't merit is overall draft position, but he's a starter, and not subject to the 'bust' label on my scale either.

 

I'm similar. When I think of a bust, players like Ryan Leaf, Bjoern Werner, Johnny Manziel, Jamarcus Russell, come to mind. Guys who don't even really show flashes of having the ability to be productive at the NFL level. Dorsett has definitely shown flashes, and I'd say he's easily a much better player than any of those guys.

 

While criticizing taking him in the first round is definitely valid, I guess I'm able to be a little patient since he's still on his rookie deal. If he struggles next year though, I'll be more than willing to concede that he was a bad pick.

[Luck is Good]

2 hours ago, jshipp23 said:

I still think Dorsett will pay off for us with the right coach we will see..

That and if he can catch the ball

[Indy1996]

I rather have chester roger at least he makes more plays then dorsett as a rookie lol. Dorsett is a bust never had close to 500 yards in a season like and we drafted him in the first round like damn

[AKB]

34 minutes ago, Luck is Good said:

That and if he can catch the ball

Hilton has dropped plenty of balls has he not?

[AKB]

2 minutes ago, Indy1996 said:

I rather have chester roger at least he makes more plays then dorsett as a rookie lol. Dorsett is a bust never had close to 500 yards in a season like and we drafted him in the first round like damn

He had 500 yards this season.

 

Randomly spitting out false statements won't get you anywhere on this forum.

[Luck is Good]

Just now, AustinnKaine said:

Hilton has dropped plenty of balls has he not?

True but he has also caught a lot of passes too

[Indy1996]

Ok my fault but you play for 2 or 3 years for colts as a slot wr and you only average 500 yards in 1 season or even 2 idk i dont pay attention to his stats like dude thats still bad for a slot 

[Steamboat_Shaun]

1 minute ago, Indy1996 said:

I rather have chester roger at least he makes more plays then dorsett as a rookie lol. Dorsett is a bust never had close to 500 yards in a season like and we drafted him in the first round like damn

 

Chester Rogers in 2016: 19 catches, 273 yards, 0 TDs

Phillip Dorsett in 2016: 33 catches, 528 yards, 2 TDs

[jvan1973]

1 minute ago, Indy1996 said:

Ok my fault but you play for 2 or 3 years for colts as a slot wr and you only average 500 yards in 1 season or even 2 idk i dont pay attention to his stats like dude thats still bad for a slot 

You may want to check that??

[SaturdayAllDay]

4 minutes ago, Luck is Good said:

True but he has also caught a lot of passes too

the % difference isnt much for this year, especially when you consider it is hiltons 5th year and he should be improving. 

33/59 for Dorsett (55.9%)

91/155 for Hilton (58.7%)

[Indy1996]

Right lol

[NewColtsFan]

2 minutes ago, Indy1996 said:

Ok my fault but you play for 2 or 3 years for colts as a slot wr and you only average 500 yards in 1 season or even 2 idk i dont pay attention to his stats like dude thats still bad for a slot 

 

Dorsett averaged 16 yards per catch this year.     That's up 3.5 yards per catch from his rookie year.

 

He's trending in the right direction.        We may not be getting 1st round value from him --- yet --- but he clearly is giving us some value and is a building block for our future.    

 

Dorsett WILL get better,  there's no reason to think he won't.

 

[Indy1996]

We are talking about a rookie that averge half of dorsett yards in 19 catches like lol and per catch is 14.4 per catch lol

[BOTT]

2 hours ago, AustinnKaine said:

It all comes down to scheme imo. Tyreke Hill and Dorsett are practically twins when it comes down to size and speed. 

 

We've used Dorsett as a decoy, and the Chiefs have used Hill as a real receiver/runner.z

Maybe there is a reason one is used as a decoy and the other is used more as a legit receiver.  I agree they could use Dorsett more effectively,  but seems we are starting the excuse making already.

[Luck is Good]

3 minutes ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

the % difference isnt much for this year, especially when you consider it is hiltons 5th year and he should be improving. 

33/59 for Dorsett (55.9%)

91/155 for Hilton (58.7%)

I knew TY had some drops but didn't realize it was that close. TY usually comes up with big catches though too

[Andrew Luck fan club]

Look at us, having to compare Phillips stats to UDFA Rodgers to try and make a point. Whew.. Terrible 1st round pick.

[AKB]

5 minutes ago, BOTT said:

Maybe there is a reason one is used as a decoy and the other is used more as a legit receiver.  I agree they could use Dorsett more effectively,  but seems we are starting the excuse making already.

And what is that reason?

 

 

[Luck is Good]

1 minute ago, Majin Vegeta said:

Look at us, having to compare Phillips stats to UDFA Rodgers to try and make a point. Whew.. Terrible 1st round pick.

Yeah that doesn't really make Dorsett look good lol

[BOTT]

Just now, AustinnKaine said:

And what is that reason?

 

 

I don't know.  Maybe he isn't that good.

[BOTT]

3 minutes ago, Majin Vegeta said:

Look at us, having to compare Phillips stats to UDFA Rodgers to try and make a point. Whew.. Terrible 1st round pick.

If Rodgers received more playing time......

[SaturdayAllDay]

4 minutes ago, Luck is Good said:

I knew TY had some drops but didn't realize it was that close. TY usually comes up with big catches though too

yah the sad thing is that he has actually improved since his rookie year with drops. he was the worst or second worst for drops in the nfl his first year. The point im basically making is that Hilton does well despite a high number of drops, and dorsett has potential as well if he can get the ball. If he had the same catch % he had this year with the number of targets hilton received, hed only be 4-5 catches behind him. I think he has potential to be great, but just isnt being used properly. 

[Luck is Good]

Just now, SaturdayAllDay said:

yah the sad thing is that he has actually improved since his rookie year with drops. he was the worst or second worst for drops in the nfl his first year. The point im basically making is that Hilton does well despite a high number of drops, and dorsett has potential as well if he can get the ball. If he had the same catch % he had this year with the number of targets hilton received, hed only be 4-5 catches behind him. I think he has potential to be great, but just isnt being used properly. 

Maybe but I'm still skeptical. I still think that pick should've been used on defense. Couldn't they have gotten Landon Collins?

[SaturdayAllDay]

2 minutes ago, Luck is Good said:

Maybe but I'm still skeptical. I still think that pick should've been used on defense. Couldn't they have gotten Landon Collins?

yah thats a fair opinion. I wasnt happy with the pick and wanted Collins as well, but Collins had a terrible rookie year (graded the worst safety in the NFL). With the way our coaches use our players (See Dorsetts lack of targets) I really cant say that Collins would have went from last to All Pro with us. 

[Luck is Good]

1 minute ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

yah thats a fair opinion. I wasnt happy with the pick and wanted Collins as well, but Collins had a terrible rookie year (graded the worst safety in the NFL). With the way our coaches use our players (See Dorsetts lack of targets) I really cant say that Collins would have went from last to All Pro with us. 

Fair assessment

[SaturdayAllDay]

1 minute ago, Luck is Good said:

Fair assessment

my assumption is that had we draft Collins the only different would be that me and you would be talking about whether or not HE is a bust 

[Andrew Luck fan club]

4 minutes ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

yah thats a fair opinion. I wasnt happy with the pick and wanted Collins as well, but Collins had a terrible rookie year (graded the worst safety in the NFL). With the way our coaches use our players (See Dorsetts lack of targets) I really cant say that Collins would have went from last to All Pro with us. 

If we can get Clayton Geathers playing well.. I'm sure we could have had landon collins playing well...

[Luck is Good]

Just now, SaturdayAllDay said:

my assumption is that had we draft Collins the only different would be that me and you would be talking about whether or not HE is a bust 

I would hope not lol. But I think Collins would've been better than what TJ Green is

[SaturdayAllDay]

1 minute ago, Majin Vegeta said:

If we can get Clayton Geathers playing well.. I'm sure we could have had landon collins playing well...

a fair argument. But Geathers isnt going to be an all pro any time soon, and I dont think Collins would have been any closer. Even if he was a middle of the pack starter we would still have people claiming he was a terrible pick. 

[SaturdayAllDay]

3 minutes ago, Luck is Good said:

I would hope not lol. But I think Collins would've been better than what TJ Green is

After their first years they were both rated worst safety in the NFL. So at that point in their NFL careers they are fairly equal. My hope is that Green improves, although its impossible to think he will improve as much as Collins did. My hope is by year three he is a decent starter for us. But he could just as easily be out of the league by then.