Dorsett

[Andrew Luck fan club]

2 minutes ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

a fair argument. But Geathers isnt going to be an all pro any time soon, and I dont think Collins would have been any closer. Even if he was a middle of the pack starter we would still have people claiming he was a terrible pick. 

Why would you think that? He was a better prospect coming out of college? And if he was a solid starter how is that a terrible pick?

[IndyTrav]

I don't really care about who came after him or before him. All I care about is production. And he hasn't produced anything more than late round and FA WRs produce for every other team in the NFL. After 2 years it was a bad pick. It could change in 2 years, who knows.

[Luck is Good]

2 minutes ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

After their first years they were both rated worst safety in the NFL. So at that point in their NFL careers they are fairly equal. My hope is that Green improves, although its impossible to think he will improve as much as Collins did. My hope is by year three he is a decent starter for us. But he could just as easily be out of the league by then. 

Yeah the jump by Landon Collins was extraordinary

[Andrew Luck fan club]

2 minutes ago, Luck is Good said:

Yeah the jump by Landon Collins was extraordinary

The only thing tj and landons rookie season had in common was that PFF grade. Landon made a ton of highlight plays, TJ literally made more penalties than plays. 

[SaturdayAllDay]

1 minute ago, Majin Vegeta said:

Why would you think that? He was a better prospect coming out of college? And if he was a solid starter how is that a terrible pick?

To be clear, I DO NOT think that in this situation he would be a terrible pick. But you can bet there would be people complaining on here. There are a good handful here that believe that a first round pick should be an IMPACT player that comes in year one and tears it up. A terrible year followed by an average year would have people unhappy. Again, not me, but there would be talk of it. 

 

And yes Collins was a better pick coming out of college but his big knock was his coverage skills, and given what we've seen on the field, I have no reason to believe that our coaching staff is competent enough to fix coverage issues in one offseason. It isnt a knock on Collins. I love the kid and was a big supporter for us to draft him. It falls completely on who is there to help him progress. Simply put, he is in a much better situation to succeed in NY then he would be here. 

[AKB]

If Moncrief did not have the production he has had in the end zone this year, there would be people complaining about his production as a WR2 as well. 

[Luck is Good]

Just now, Majin Vegeta said:

The only thing tj and landons rookie season had in common was that PFF grade. Landon made a ton of highlight plays, TJ literally made more penalties than plays. 

I was high on Landon Collins coming out of Alabama. I really do think he would've been great with the Colts

[SaturdayAllDay]

1 minute ago, Majin Vegeta said:

The only thing tj and landons rookie season had in common was that PFF grade. Landon made a ton of highlight plays, TJ literally made more penalties than plays. 

To be fair the reason his PFF grade was so low was because he had a lot of highlight plays made on him. Yes he flashed WAAAY more potential then Green did, but he was still the worst cover safety in the NFL. 

[Andrew Luck fan club]

Just now, SaturdayAllDay said:

To be clear, I DO NOT think that in this situation he would be a terrible pick. But you can bet there would be people complaining on here. There are a good handful here that believe that a first round pick should be an IMPACT player that comes in year one and tears it up. A terrible year followed by an average year would have people unhappy. Again, not me, but there would be talk of it. 

 

And yes Collins was a better pick coming out of college but his big knock was his coverage skills, and given what we've seen on the field, I have no reason to believe that our coaching staff is competent enough to fix coverage issues in one offseason. It isnt a knock on Collins. I love the kid and was a big supporter for us to draft him. It falls completely on who is there to help him progress. Simply put, he is in a much better situation to succeed in NY then he would be here. 

Sorry but that's a bad argument. You say people want a 1st rounder to be an impact? But then draft a no.3 wide reciever? Third on the depth chart? Makes no sense. Safety was a need, and it's obvious Landon would have been more of an impact than Dorsett. 

[Andrew Luck fan club]

1 minute ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

To be fair the reason his PFF grade was so low was because he had a lot of highlight plays made on him. Yes he flashed WAAAY more potential then Green did, but he was still the worst cover safety in the NFL. 

My point. Can't even compare them.

[SaturdayAllDay]

1 minute ago, Majin Vegeta said:

Sorry but that's a bad argument. You say people want a 1st rounder to be an impact? But then draft a no.3 wide reciever? Third on the depth chart? Makes no sense. Safety was a need, and it's obvious Landon would have been more of an impact than Dorsett. 

Like I said, its not my argument. I am just regurgitating everything I have seen on this forum and saying that people would complain. I am playing the devil's advocate here. I like Collins and think he was the smarter pick, but I am just saying I dont think he would be an all pro with us and there would be people complaining regardless. 

[Luck is Good]

2 minutes ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

Like I said, its not my argument. I am just regurgitating everything I have seen on this forum and saying that people would complain. I am playing the devil's advocate here. I like Collins and think he was the smarter pick, but I am just saying I dont think he would be an all pro with us and there would be people complaining regardless. 

People will usually complain with anything lol. But I do think Collins would've been really good for the Colts. Like Vegeta said, definitely more of an impact than a No. 3 WR

[SaturdayAllDay]

6 minutes ago, Majin Vegeta said:

My point. Can't even compare them.

It is obvious that Collins was better, he wasnt terrible in college. Hence why i said I have zero expectation that Green makes a jump like that this off season. 

 

Unfortunately there are lots on this forum that would have simply given up on Collins after that first year and then judged him harshly the next year to confirm that they were right and Grigson messed up again, etc. 

[SaturdayAllDay]

3 minutes ago, Luck is Good said:

People will usually complain with anything lol. But I do think Collins would've been really good for the Colts. Like Vegeta said, definitely more of an impact than a No. 3 WR

I do think we are lucky that he IS only our number 3 WR. I mean at the time of the draft we werent 100% sure that Hilton was going to be back, and Moncrief was a question mark (still is IMO). A few different flips of the coin and he might have been our #1 WR going into 2016. I dont necessarily agree with the choice but I get why it was made. 

[AKB]

6 minutes ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

I do think we are lucky that he IS only our number 3 WR. I mean at the time of the draft we werent 100% sure that Hilton was going to be back, and Moncrief was a question mark (still is IMO). A few different flips of the coin and he might have been our #1 WR going into 2016. I dont necessarily agree with the choice but I get why it was made. 

I dont think moncrief is good.

[Luck is Good]

3 minutes ago, AustinnKaine said:

I dont think moncrief is good.

The biggest problem to me is that the Colts just don't have that talented a roster. Even on offense

[BOTT]

27 minutes ago, AustinnKaine said:

If Moncrief did not have the production he has had in the end zone this year, there would be people complaining about his production as a WR2 as well. 

Guy was hurt off and on all season

[jshipp23]

3 minutes ago, AustinnKaine said:

I dont think moncrief is good.

He regressed this year for sure , hopefully it was just cause he was hurt...2015 he looked ready to break out..Seems like a theme with this team..Rookies come out show flashes and then seem to regress with no explanation..Got to be the coaching. ..Look at Jonathan Newsome for example, he made some nice sacks his rookie year looked pretty good and was trash the next year..

[VocableLoki]

7 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

He regressed this year for sure , hopefully it was just cause he was hurt...2015 he looked ready to break out..Seems like a theme with this team..Rookies come out show flashes and then seem to regress with no explanation..Got to be the coaching. ..Look at Jonathan Newsome for example, he made some nice sacks his rookie year looked pretty good and was trash the next year..

 

This is true of several players but Newsome is a terrible example. His personal problems lead to his career falling apart. 

[jshipp23]

1 minute ago, VocableLoki said:

This is true of several players but Newsome is a terrible example. His personal problems lead to his career falling apart. 

I really didn't follow his personal problems...I just remember his rookie year he looked like he had potential to be a player...Next year he was a shell of himself and next thing you know he is gone...What personal issues did he have?

[VocableLoki]

1 minute ago, jshipp23 said:

I really didn't follow his personal problems...I just remember his rookie year he looked like he had potential to be a player...Next year he was a shell of himself and next thing you know he is gone...What personal issues did he have?

 

He was released by the Colts after getting caught two times with drug possession if I am remembering correctly. 

[jshipp23]

1 minute ago, VocableLoki said:

He was released by the Colts after getting caught two times with drug possession if I am remembering correctly. 

I think i remember now...He was terrible at that point so I wasn't worried about it...Too bad, kid had talent..

[VocableLoki]

Just now, jshipp23 said:

I think i remember now...He was terrible at that point so I wasn't worried about it...Too bad, kid had talent..

True, if he had kept it together and continued to develop he could have been a  partial solution to our pass rushing problem. I think he's playing in Canada now.

[BOTT]

27 minutes ago, VocableLoki said:

True, if he had kept it together and continued to develop he could have been a  partial solution to our pass rushing problem. I think he's playing in Canada now.

Most of the sacks during his rookie year were misleading. A few times he was totally unblocked.

[jshipp23]

21 minutes ago, BOTT said:

Most of the sacks during his rookie year were misleading. A few times he was totally unblocked.

A couple were, but he did lead the team with 6.5 sacks as a rookie and had some speed...He also had a big sack on Manning in the playoff game as well...He wasn't the second coming of Mathis but looked like he could be a decent player before he fell off a cliff...

[Luck is Good]

5 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

A couple were, but he did lead the team with 6.5 sacks as a rookie and had some speed...He also had a big sack on Manning in the playoff game as well...He wasn't the second coming of Mathis but looked like he could be a decent player before he fell off a cliff...

If only he could've fallen off the weed lol. But I think marijuana laws in general are ridiculous imo

[jshipp23]

8 minutes ago, Luck is Good said:

If only he could've fallen off the weed lol. But I think marijuana laws in general are ridiculous imo

I just think he got lazy and quit training which could be caused my the mj...Id rather make half a million if it was me...Ill never understand that..too much to lose..

[Luck is Good]

2 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

I just think he got lazy and quit training which could be caused my the mj...Id rather make half a million if it was me...Ill never understand that..too much to lose..

Well yes making millions vs smoking pot. The millions would be more appealing to me. I will never understand a professional athlete risking millions and millions of dollars on a plant. But since I have no chance of making millions unless I win the lottery, I do like to enjoy some ganja every once in a while

[WarGhost21]

9 hours ago, WarGhost21 said:

First and foremost, it was mentioned more than once that it's disappointing that he fell behind Chester Rogers on the depth chart. In all reality, he didn't. Rogers was utilized more because Dorsett couldn't fill a #2 role when Moncrief was out due to the fact that TY has almost the exact same skill set as him. To be successful, you can't have 2 speed threats as your 1 and 2. You need a blend. Moncrief was the red zone threat to TY's deep ball threat. You put 2 deep ball threats together, it becomes very easy to cover. Rogers, on the other hand, has a similar skill set to Moncrief as a bigger red zone target, making him the only valid option to slide into #2. When Moncrief was healthy, Dorsett was ahead of Rogers on the depth chart anyway. 

I'm just going to quote this part of what I said earlier because EVERYONE is still comparing him to Chester Rogers and apparently NOBODY reads anymore. Rogers looked better later in the season because he was Moncrief's temporary replacement while he was out. So, taking comparing these two out of the equation, are there any other valid arguments as to why Dorsett is a bust? Anybody? No? I rest my case...

[BOTT]

1 hour ago, jshipp23 said:

A couple were, but he did lead the team with 6.5 sacks as a rookie and had some speed...He also had a big sack on Manning in the playoff game as well...He wasn't the second coming of Mathis but looked like he could be a decent player before he fell off a cliff...

That was a big sack....good thing he was unblocked.

[BOTT]

50 minutes ago, WarGhost21 said:

I'm just going to quote this part of what I said earlier because EVERYONE is still comparing him to Chester Rogers and apparently NOBODY reads anymore. Rogers looked better later in the season because he was Moncrief's temporary replacement while he was out. So, taking comparing these two out of the equation, are there any other valid arguments as to why Dorsett is a bust? Anybody? No? I rest my case...

You repeating it doesn't make anyone believe you.

[jshipp23]

1 minute ago, BOTT said:

That was a big sack....good thing he was unblocked.

Not many players have the ability to go unnoticed it's a rare skill...

[SaturdayAllDay]

3 hours ago, VocableLoki said:

True, if he had kept it together and continued to develop he could have been a  partial solution to our pass rushing problem. I think he's playing in Canada now.

He most definitely is in Canada now. Just got a new multi year deal with Saskatchewan. 

 

Thing that throws me off is that he plays as #0 up here. 

[braveheartcolt]

4 hours ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

I do think we are lucky that he IS only our number 3 WR. I mean at the time of the draft we werent 100% sure that Hilton was going to be back, and Moncrief was a question mark (still is IMO). A few different flips of the coin and he might have been our #1 WR going into 2016. I dont necessarily agree with the choice but I get why it was made. 

A fact so easily ignored by the 'Hindsight Crowd'.....

[WarGhost21]

7 hours ago, BOTT said:

You repeating it doesn't make anyone believe you.

What isn't believable about the statement? It's 100% true that it happened like that.

[Andrew Luck fan club]

7 hours ago, braveheartcolt said:

A fact so easily ignored by the 'Hindsight Crowd'.....

No, it was all but fact he was coming back. Like someone else said a page back, stop looking for excuses. 

[Andrew Luck fan club]

1 hour ago, WarGhost21 said:

What isn't believable about the statement? It's 100% true that it happened like that.

It was a very bad pick. Get over it and over on. 

[WarGhost21]

Just now, Majin Vegeta said:

It was a very bad pick. Get over it and over on. 

I didn't say it wasn't a bad pick. I agree that we should have gone in another direction with it. But too many people are comparing him to Rogers because he seemed to "pass" him on the depth chart (Which he didn't really do, only filling in for Moncrief).  I just want the forum to get off of his back for once

[Andrew Luck fan club]

Just now, WarGhost21 said:

I didn't say it wasn't a bad pick. I agree that we should have gone in another direction with it. But too many people are comparing him to Rogers because he seemed to "pass" him on the depth chart (Which he didn't really do, only filling in for Moncrief).  I just want the forum to get off of his back for once

Well that won't happen. Some people can't look at things from all angles.

Only way this forum will like Dorsett is if he has a good season next year. (I will forever be salty about it)

[richard pallo]

No he is not a bust.  But I have to tell you.  The Browns are switching to a 4-3 defense and they are in need of wide receivers.  If they were to call or maybe we should call I would be tempted to trade Dorsett a former 1st. to Cleveland for NT Dan Shelton another former 1st who is no longer needed in a 4-3.  It would be a win for both teams IMO.  Just food for thought.