When is it time to give up on an NFL coach?

[SilentHill]

On 1/7/2017 at 1:01 PM, 21isSuperman said:

I think you have to approach it on a case-by-case basis.  For example, Chuck Pagano is/should be on the hot seat despite having multiple playoff wins.  Marvin Lewis, on the other hand, hasn't won a playoff game in over 10 years, but isn't under the same scrutiny as Pagano.  Sean Payton's defenses are absolutely awful, but his offensive playcalling is so good that it's hard to let him go.

 

Marvin Lewis 14 year head coach, 118-103 regular season record w/ 0-7 playoff record.

 

If I was a Bengals fan I'd be really ticked off.

[21isSuperman]

4 hours ago, SilentHill said:

 

Marvin Lewis 14 year head coach, 118-103 regular season record w/ 0-7 playoff record.

 

If I was a Bengals fan I'd be really ticked off.

My thoughts on Marvin Lewis

I'd say he's a pretty good head coach despite his playoff record.  A good coach is judged by more than just a playoff record

 

[Synthetic]

On 1/6/2017 at 9:29 PM, ReMeDy said:

What I'm trying to figure out is why Rex Ryan, who's Bills ended with the same record as our Colts, got fired despite having a lesser talented QB and despite Rex being with the team for a shorter span of time.

 

Rex inherited a top 5 ranked defense when he came to Buffalo and they gradually declined every year. I'm sure that is the reason he was fired. They went from a top 5 ranking down into the 20's in the years in all his seasons. 

[Synthetic]

On 1/6/2017 at 9:20 PM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Who's bragging about 8-8? I am sure not but my point is, a lot of people in here sure want to point out what Coaches have accomplished years ago but when it comes to Chuck the same people don't even acknowledge what he has done from 2012-2014. I think Payton is a better Coach but he hasn't done that great since 2009 when he won a SB, Harbaugh has also missed the Playoffs 2 seasons in a row. Harbaugh isn't all the great without Ray Lewis and that top notch Defense is he?

 

 

You must be forgetting something if you think 2009 was some miracle run and we haven't had success since then...

 

2010 - 11-5

2011 - 13-3

2013 11-5

 

The Colts under Pagano in their 11-5 seasons went 6-0 playing the worst division in the league, and then split 5-5 with the rest of the NFL. They've hit a brick wall since last year when the division began to improve and a good time rose in Houston who wasn't afraid of them anymore. 

 

He has a 20-24 record playing teams outside the AFC South.

 

Payton has boasted a top 5 ranked offense every year he's been with the Saints since 2006. Pagano's job is supposed to be defense but the Colts defense keeps getting worse every year. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

33 minutes ago, Synthetic said:

 

 

You must be forgetting something if you think 2009 was some miracle run and we haven't had success since then...

 

2010 - 11-5

2011 - 13-3

2013 11-5

 

The Colts under Pagano in their 11-5 seasons went 6-0 playing the worst division in the league, and then split 5-5 with the rest of the NFL. They've hit a brick wall since last year when the division began to improve and a good time rose in Houston who wasn't afraid of them anymore. 

 

He has a 20-24 record playing teams outside the AFC South.

 

Payton has boasted a top 5 ranked offense every year he's been with the Saints since 2006. Pagano's job is supposed to be defense but the Colts defense keeps getting worse every year. 

1. I said Payton was the better Coach, that isn't debatable because he has won a SB but that was back in 2009, 2. We are 26-24 outside of the Division, not 20-24, people keep Posting 20-24 which is false, 3. How is it ok for Payton to have 3 straight seasons at 7-9 and not ok for Chuck to have 2 straight seasons at 8-8? Payton has been 7-9 in 2014-2016 with Brees at QB and you have no problem with that? but you think Chuck sucks eggs for going 8-8 2 years in a row?

[jvan1973]

24 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

1. I said Payton was the better Coach, that isn't debatable because he has won a SB but that was back in 2009, 2. We are 26-24 outside of the Division, not 20-24, people keep Posting 20-24 which is false, 3. How is it ok for Payton to have 3 straight seasons at 7-9 and not ok for Chuck to have 2 straight seasons at 8-8? Payton has been 7-9 in 2014-2016 with Brees at QB and you have no problem with that? but you think Chuck sucks eggs for going 8-8 2 years in a row?

Because he is a troll

[Andrew Luck fan club]

9 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

1. I said Payton was the better Coach, that isn't debatable because he has won a SB but that was back in 2009, 2. We are 26-24 outside of the Division, not 20-24, people keep Posting 20-24 which is false, 3. How is it ok for Payton to have 3 straight seasons at 7-9 and not ok for Chuck to have 2 straight seasons at 8-8? Payton has been 7-9 in 2014-2016 with Brees at QB and you have no problem with that? but you think Chuck sucks eggs for going 8-8 2 years in a row?

20-24 is without Arians wins/losses. So actually it is true. 

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 hours ago, 12to13 said:

20-24 is without Arians wins/losses. So actually it is true. 

 

20-24 still isn't correct if you are counting Arians, when Arians went 9-3, he was 6-2 outside of the Division so 20-22 would be correct for Chuck = 26-24. At this point I could really care less with the Chuck bashing anymore (it's worn out in here), this is the only fanbase that I know of that doesn't give credit to a Coach for wins in his Division because it was weak. A win is a win and at least he beat the teams he was supposed too back then to get us in the Playoffs. I suppose Dungy should get no credit for a lot of his Division wins then? The AFC South was weak plenty of years in the Peyton days. Look at the NFC West this season, Wilson/Carroll had a creampuff Division this season, I guess they shouldn't get credit for winning their Division?

[BullsColtsFan1]

I'd say 5 years.

[Andrew Luck fan club]

51 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

20-24 still isn't correct if you are counting Arians, when Arians went 9-3, he was 6-2 outside of the Division so 20-22 would be correct for Chuck = 26-24. At this point I could really care less with the Chuck bashing anymore (it's worn out in here), this is the only fanbase that I know of that doesn't give credit to a Coach for wins in his Division because it was weak. A win is a win and at least he beat the teams he was supposed too back then to get us in the Playoffs. I suppose Dungy should get no credit for a lot of his Division wins then? The AFC South was weak plenty of years in the Peyton days. Look at the NFC West this season, Wilson/Carroll had a creampuff Division this season, I guess they shouldn't get credit for winning their Division?

I meant to say "chuck is 20-24 outside of the afc south". My bad. 

[DougDew]

On 1/6/2017 at 6:40 PM, DalTXColtsFan said:

John Harbaugh had a spectacular run from 2008 to 2012 winning a playoff game each year and winning a super bowl (over his brother Jim).  But from 2013 to 2016 he missed the playoffs 3 times and never won his division.  Time to give up on him and go another direction?

 

Sean Payton - similar situation, won a Super Bowl in 2009 but is coming off 3 straight losing seasons.  Time to make a change? 

 

I'm sure that if I did some digging I could find other examples.

 

When, in general, is it time to give up on a regime and make a change?

In Baltimore's case, the problem isn't the coach.  The team had to make a decision about its QB and Flacco's cap is too much relative to his production.  Its tough to pay elite QB money and still have the same quality team around him.

 

Not to mention that Reed, Lewis, and Ngata are hard to replace even if you had the money to do it.  Those kind of players aren't just sitting around wating for employment offers.

[VocableLoki]

On 1/6/2017 at 8:07 PM, Colts_Fan12 said:

For the love of God will you all stop comparing dummy Chuck to coaches way better then him. Sean Payton and John Harbaugh both already had a SB ring at this point in their careers. Also John plays in the tough AFC North while the NFC South hasn't been great it sure hasn't been AFC South bad. I know this is just a thread to defend this * regime but damn excuses have to stop somewhere.

I'm confused, did the initial post get edited or something? I don't see any mention of Pagano in the first post. Unless everyone is taking it as implied or something

[Valpo2004]

On 1/6/2017 at 10:29 PM, ReMeDy said:

What I'm trying to figure out is why Rex Ryan, who's Bills ended with the same record as our Colts, got fired despite having a lesser talented QB and despite Rex being with the team for a shorter span of time.

 

As mentioned a lot has to do with the fact that their defense despite having a lot of talent wasn't doing all that well.

 

It would be like if the Colt's offense suddenly got quite a bit worse without losing a single major starter.  

 

The thing with Pagano is that the strength of Indy is still a strength.  Luck is playing better, TY Hilton is playing better.  But it's clear that the defense is not that talented.  Star players like Mathis have aged out and many of the defensive starters we do use have come from the bargain bin.  (Low round picks or low cost to medium cost free agents)  Of the 3 players we've had on defense that arn't from the bargain bin (Werner, Davis, and Jones) 2 of those are certifiable busts.  

 

So it's very much a question of if he can get the defense going when he gets some talent in there.  

 

[oldunclemark]

 

   I think it comes down t whether your team plays hard for you...

...and how you handle the inevitable losing..

Plus, how you treat people in the building, something we don't know

 

as was said here before......Marvin Lewis is the best example...

...