If you were GM in 2012, what would of been your strategy?

[Yoshinator]

14 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I don't know why this thread is even happening.

 

We don't have a problem in 2016 because of what we did in 2012.

 

We have a problem in 2016 because of what we did in 2013 AND 2014.

 

Why is anyone talking about,  discussing,  or debating 2012?!?

 

Will someone explain this to me?

 

 

14 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I know I thought 2012 was Grigson's best Draft. Luck and TY.

I'll explain why I made the thread. First, the 2012 draft was the first (and best) opportunity to build an O-Line around Luck and a pass rush on a rebuilding team, we did neither. Instead, we got a ton of weapons around Luck. Hilton was wonderful, but the two TE's were overkill. With or without hindsight, I can say just draft one. 2013 was a bust draft for almost every team, so I don't put that all on Grigson. He also tried to get O-Lineman and a pass rusher, despite them being awful. Trent Richardson was awful and cost us a 1st, and we had no 1st and 4th, so I'll say 2014 was a bad year even though we got Moncrief and Mewhort. Grigson limited that draft. 

 

The thing is, we were such a fresh team with no real stars after Peyton left, that we should of surrounded Luck with an O-Line immediately. Get him protection. We had Collie, Avery, and Wayne. We could of still got Hilton, and had an O-Lineman or two that would of been on the team today if we didn't take two TE's with our 2nd and 3rd round picks to try and copy the Pats. We are still recovering from it today. Even a defensive player would of given us some stability early if Grigson chose the right guy. The 2012 draft class seems really good, but other than Luck and Hilton, you can dump everyone else and not notice (yes Allen too). That was a two player draft, and Allen and Fleener got worse and worse instead of better. The last two drafts will be just as important to this team IMO.

[stitches]

I probably would have tried building the trenches on both sides of the ball before picking and trading for skill positions.

[NewColtsFan]

47 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

 

I'll explain why I made the thread. First, the 2012 draft was the first (and best) opportunity to build an O-Line around Luck and a pass rush on a rebuilding team, we did neither. Instead, we got a ton of weapons around Luck. Hilton was wonderful, but the two TE's were overkill. With or without hindsight, I can say just draft one. 2013 was a bust draft for almost every team, so I don't put that all on Grigson. He also tried to get O-Lineman and a pass rusher, despite them being awful. Trent Richardson was awful and cost us a 1st, and we had no 1st and 4th, so I'll say 2014 was a bad year even though we got Moncrief and Mewhort. Grigson limited that draft. 

 

The thing is, we were such a fresh team with no real stars after Peyton left, that we should of surrounded Luck with an O-Line immediately. Get him protection. We had Collie, Avery, and Wayne. We could of still got Hilton, and had an O-Lineman or two that would of been on the team today if we didn't take two TE's with our 2nd and 3rd round picks to try and copy the Pats. We are still recovering from it today. Even a defensive player would of given us some stability early if Grigson chose the right guy. The 2012 draft class seems really good, but other than Luck and Hilton, you can dump everyone else and not notice (yes Allen too). That was a two player draft, and Allen and Fleener got worse and worse instead of better. The last two drafts will be just as important to this team IMO.

 

There are just way too many things for me to disagree with,   so I'll just say I disagree....

 

And we'll leave it at that....

 

[rock8591]

16 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

First off.....    you wouldn't have made those picks back then.

 

You would have made those picks........   NOW.

 

Everyone is a genius with hindsight.       

 

There's a reason why all those guys lasted until they did.     They were viewed to have flaws,  that's why they were available in the rounds you're talking about.

 

 

Agreed. That's why my "ideal" scenario is so far fetched, because it assumes we hit outrageously on every single pick and everyone misses as well.

 

Not to say that I can't dream like a sheep.

 

With the addition of Trevathan, Burfict, Malik Jackson, Damon Harrison, and Olivier Vernon, we would have been 2x super bowl champions by now.

 

Still, I dunno why we didn't just gamble the 7th rounder on Vontaze Burfict, who ended up being UDFA.

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, rock8591 said:

 

Agreed. That's why my "ideal" scenario is so far fetched, because it assumes we hit outrageously on every single pick and everyone misses as well.

 

Not to say that I can't dream like a sheep.

 

With the addition of Trevathan, Burfict, Malik Jackson, Damon Harrison, and Olivier Vernon, we would have been 2x super bowl champions by now.

 

Still, I dunno why we didn't just gamble the 7th rounder on Vontaze Burfict, who ended up being UDFA.

 

The view on Vontez was that he's Bat Sh!t Crazy!

 

And he's mostly demonstrated that in his short career,  though his actual on-field play has dramatically improved.

 

I just think he was too far off the reservation for the Colts....    and for most teams, frankly.

 

 

[COLTS449]

15 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

The view on Vontez was that he's Bat Sh!t Crazy!

 

And he's mostly demonstrated that in his short career,  though his actual on-field play has dramatically improved.

 

I just think he was too far off the reservation for the Colts....    and for most teams, frankly.

 

 

 

That's exactly what we need. Good players first and foremost. But we need some nasty, hard nose, in your face type players with swag.

[COLTS449]

There's a lot of things we could have done different. 2012 was a pretty great draft though. But this could be our team with better drafting, scouting, etc. over the last 5-6 years. And this wouldn't be hitting on every pick either. If that were the case we'd have drafted Damon Harrison, Mo Wilkerson, Chris Harris Jr., CJ Anderson, Danny Trevathan, Shaq Barrett, Stefon Diggs, etc. BTW. I didn't list an entire 53, such as backup OL, QB, etc. Just certain backups.

 

DE Malik Jackson / TY McGill

DT Brandon Williams / Zach Kerr

DE Henry Anderson / Kendall Langford / Hassan Ridgeway

OLB Danielle Hunter / Robert Mathis

ILB Vontaze Burfict / Mason Foster (FA Signing)

ILB Kwon Alexander / 

OLB Justin Houston / Willie Young (FA Signing)

CB Vontae Davis / Casey Hayward (FA Signing)

CB Bradley Roby / EJ Gaines

FS Tyrann Mathieu /

SS George Iloka / TJ Green 

 

QB Andrew Luck

RB Jordan Howard / Thomas Rawls

LT Terron Armstead

LG Kelechi Osemele (FA Signing)

C Ryan Kelly

RG Jack Mewhort

RT Ryan Schraeder

TE Coby Fleener / Dwayne Allen

WR TY Hilton

WR Allen Hurns /

WR Dontae Moncrief / Phillip Dorsett

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

 

I'll explain why I made the thread. First, the 2012 draft was the first (and best) opportunity to build an O-Line around Luck and a pass rush on a rebuilding team, we did neither. Instead, we got a ton of weapons around Luck. Hilton was wonderful, but the two TE's were overkill. With or without hindsight, I can say just draft one. 2013 was a bust draft for almost every team, so I don't put that all on Grigson. He also tried to get O-Lineman and a pass rusher, despite them being awful. Trent Richardson was awful and cost us a 1st, and we had no 1st and 4th, so I'll say 2014 was a bad year even though we got Moncrief and Mewhort. Grigson limited that draft. 

 

The thing is, we were such a fresh team with no real stars after Peyton left, that we should of surrounded Luck with an O-Line immediately. Get him protection. We had Collie, Avery, and Wayne. We could of still got Hilton, and had an O-Lineman or two that would of been on the team today if we didn't take two TE's with our 2nd and 3rd round picks to try and copy the Pats. We are still recovering from it today. Even a defensive player would of given us some stability early if Grigson chose the right guy. The 2012 draft class seems really good, but other than Luck and Hilton, you can dump everyone else and not notice (yes Allen too). That was a two player draft, and Allen and Fleener got worse and worse instead of better. The last two drafts will be just as important to this team IMO.

I understand why you made the Thread but it's really tough to criticize Grigs for that Draft. Maybe I would've took an O.Lineman instead of Allen or Fleener (taking 2 TE's was kind of surprising) but other than that I thought that Draft was Great. He also traded for Vontae Davis that same season, so we basically got Luck, TY, and Davis all in the same season. That is Great stuff.

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, COLTS449 said:

There's a lot of things we could have done different. 2012 was a pretty great draft though. But this could be our team with better drafting, scouting, etc. over the last 5-6 years. And this wouldn't be hitting on every pick either. If that were the case we'd have drafted Damon Harrison, Mo Wilkerson, Chris Harris Jr., CJ Anderson, Danny Trevathan, Shaq Barrett, Stefon Diggs, etc. BTW. I didn't list an entire 53, such as backup OL, QB, etc. Just certain backups.

 

DE Malik Jackson / TY McGill

DT Brandon Williams / Zach Kerr

DE Henry Anderson / Kendall Langford / Hassan Ridgeway

OLB Danielle Hunter / Robert Mathis

ILB Vontaze Burfict / Mason Foster (FA Signing)

ILB Kwon Alexander / 

OLB Justin Houston / Willie Young (FA Signing)

CB Vontae Davis / Casey Hayward (FA Signing)

CB Bradley Roby / EJ Gaines

FS Tyrann Mathieu /

SS George Iloka / TJ Green 

 

QB Andrew Luck

RB Jordan Howard / Thomas Rawls

LT Terron Armstead

LG Kelechi Osemele (FA Signing)

C Ryan Kelly

RG Jack Mewhort

RT Ryan Schraeder

TE Coby Fleener / Dwayne Allen

WR TY Hilton

WR Allen Hurns /

WR Dontae Moncrief / Phillip Dorsett

 

 

Question......

 

You don't think there's a fan just like you on every team's website who couldn't come up with a perfect scenario of what their team COULD be......     and simply say this is what we could've been with some better scouting and decision making?

 

Hindsight is obvious because it's hindsight.      EVERYTHING is obvious in hindsight.

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

30 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Question......

 

You don't think there's a fan just like you on every team's website who couldn't come up with a perfect scenario of what their team COULD be......     and simply say this is what we could've been with some better scouting and decision making?

 

Hindsight is obvious because it's hindsight.      EVERYTHING is obvious in hindsight.

 

I know it's easy for anyone to go back in hindsight and say we should've took a certain player after they have had 3 or 4 Good years. Tom Brady should've went #1 in the 2000 Draft LOL - hindsight is easy. Browns drafted Courtney Brown #1 and Brady went 199 LOL.

[COLTS449]

51 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Question......

 

You don't think there's a fan just like you on every team's website who couldn't come up with a perfect scenario of what their team COULD be......     and simply say this is what we could've been with some better scouting and decision making?

 

Hindsight is obvious because it's hindsight.      EVERYTHING is obvious in hindsight.

 

 

Look at what Denver's done over the past 5 years. Hitting on Jackson, Trevathan, Wolfe, Harris Jr., Anderson, Thomas in the mid-late rounds - undrafted. Or seeing the talent in Brandon Marshall and picking him up from Jacksonville. Or Seattle with Sherman, Chancellor, Maxwell, Wright, Wagner, Baldwin, Rawls, Kearse, etc...

[NewColtsFan]

31 minutes ago, COLTS449 said:

 

Look at what Denver's done over the past 5 years. Hitting on Jackson, Trevathan, Wolfe, Harris Jr., Anderson, Thomas in the mid-late rounds - undrafted. Or seeing the talent in Brandon Marshall and picking him up from Jacksonville. Or Seattle with Sherman, Chancellor, Maxwell, Wright, Wagner, Baldwin, Rawls, Kearse, etc...

 

And those teams have fans just like you who wonder why they didn't do better and why they're not winning more....

 

It's the nature of being a fan.

 

You've listed two teams that are doing things right.....       there are't a lot of other teams doing it as well.

 

This game is hard....   it's not easy to be great and then to sustain greatness.

 

[COLTS449]

7 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

 

I'll explain why I made the thread. First, the 2012 draft was the first (and best) opportunity to build an O-Line around Luck and a pass rush on a rebuilding team, we did neither. Instead, we got a ton of weapons around Luck. Hilton was wonderful, but the two TE's were overkill. With or without hindsight, I can say just draft one. 2013 was a bust draft for almost every team, so I don't put that all on Grigson. He also tried to get O-Lineman and a pass rusher, despite them being awful. Trent Richardson was awful and cost us a 1st, and we had no 1st and 4th, so I'll say 2014 was a bad year even though we got Moncrief and Mewhort. Grigson limited that draft. 

 

The thing is, we were such a fresh team with no real stars after Peyton left, that we should of surrounded Luck with an O-Line immediately. Get him protection. We had Collie, Avery, and Wayne. We could of still got Hilton, and had an O-Lineman or two that would of been on the team today if we didn't take two TE's with our 2nd and 3rd round picks to try and copy the Pats. We are still recovering from it today. Even a defensive player would of given us some stability early if Grigson chose the right guy. The 2012 draft class seems really good, but other than Luck and Hilton, you can dump everyone else and not notice (yes Allen too). That was a two player draft, and Allen and Fleener got worse and worse instead of better. The last two drafts will be just as important to this team IMO.

 

We could have gotten (Off the top of my head) Kelechi Osemele, Bobby Wagner, or Lavonte David instead of Fleener.

[Yoshinator]

Just now, COLTS449 said:

 

We could have gotten (Off the top of my head) Kelechi Osemele, Bobby Wagner, or Levontae David instead of Fleener.

I had us getting Cordy Glenn, he would of been our RT today if we drafted him. David was a third round pick that is doing amazing, probably a reach in the 2nd at that time. Wagner and Osemele are the guys who really could of made a difference. I didn't have us taking either, but they would of been nice. This draft didn't ruin us or anything, but it started us on the wrong road position wise.

[Yoshinator]

2 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I understand why you made the Thread but it's really tough to criticize Grigs for that Draft. Maybe I would've took an O.Lineman instead of Allen or Fleener (taking 2 TE's was kind of surprising) but other than that I thought that Draft was Great. He also traded for Vontae Davis that same season, so we basically got Luck, TY, and Davis all in the same season. That is Great stuff.

You bring up a good point about Vontae. We got a great player in him. It's unfortunate we missed on our day 3 picks, as their were some gems. We got two great picks in Luck and Hilton, and the rest have faded unfortunately. If Allen improves over the year it will be nice. Vontae was a nice addition. I will always give Grigson credit for that trade.

[Colts_Fan12]

30 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I had us getting Cordy Glenn, he would of been our RT today if we drafted him. David was a third round pick that is doing amazing, probably a reach in the 2nd at that time. Wagner and Osemele are the guys who really could of made a difference. I didn't have us taking either, but they would of been nice. This draft didn't ruin us or anything, but it started us on the wrong road position wise.

If Cordy Glenn was on this team he better be playing LT cause he is better then Castanzo 

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, COLTS449 said:

 

We could have gotten (Off the top of my head) Kelechi Osemele, Bobby Wagner, or Lavonte David instead of Fleener.

 

Lavonte Davis is a 4-3 weakside OLB. 

 

The rest if all Monday Morning QB.....    Seattle took heat for the Wagner pick.    A reach people said.

 

Turns out they were right.

 

This thread gets sillier with every post.

 

[COLTS449]

13 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Lavonte Davis is a 4-3 weakside OLB. 

 

The rest if all Monday Morning QB.....    Seattle took heat for the Wagner pick.    A reach people said.

 

Turns out they were right.

 

This thread gets sillier with every post.

 

 

You get too caught up in that NCF. David would be fine as a 3-4 ILB. Same with Kwon Alexander. In fact guys like those 2 are exactly what we need. A sideline to sideline, athletic, rangy, cover ILB.

 

And Bobby Wagner is one of the best LB's in the NFL. So people may have thought it was a reach or a bad pick, but it shows Seattle knows how to find talent.

 

The fact is. Yeah every fan for every team could say "we could've had" this or that, but we've done a poor job at finding talent in the mid-late rounds, missed on some early picks, and gave one 1st rounder away for nothing. Not to mention flunking free agency 4 straight off seasons. With a better GM and coaching staff we could be a top 3 team right now. 

[NewColtsFan]

7 minutes ago, COLTS449 said:

 

You get too caught up in that NCF. David would be fine as a 3-4 ILB. Same with Kwon Alexander. In fact guys like those 2 are exactly what we need. A sideline to sideline, athletic, rangy, cover ILB.

 

And Bobby Wagner is one of the best LB's in the NFL. So people may have thought it was a reach or a bad pick, but it shows Seattle knows how to find talent.

 

The fact is. Yeah every fan for every team could say "we could've had" this or that, but we've done a poor job at finding talent in the mid-late rounds, missed on some early picks, and gave one 1st rounder away for nothing. Not to mention flunking free agency 4 straight off seasons. With a better GM and coaching staff we could be a top 3 team right now. 

 

You're not telling me anything I don't already know and haven't posted about.    Except, I wouldn't say we've flunked free agency,  though we have done poorly.      We've done a very good job on inexpensive free agents...   We've struck out on expensive free agents.

 

Every fan says with a better GM and HC they could be a top team. 

 

Saying Seattle know how to find talent isn't breaking news.    I noted earlier this season that Seattle leads the NFL in most undrafted free agents on their roster.     So, they can find guys when many teams can't.

 

Just as there are good quarterbacks and poor ones,   so too there are also good HC's and average ones and poor ones....    and the same for GM's.....      that's, in part why this game is difficult.     There are a lot of moving parts.

As for me and Levonte David,   I noted it when he was drafted and I've noted it ever since.     He wasn't picked until the 50's.       If he was so scheme versatile,  how did so many teams pass on him.....   TWICE?!?

 

Because lots of teams play a 3-4 and they didn't think he was a scheme fit for them.    Also,  he's 230 pounds, and many teams don't like LB's that small.       This isn't as obvious as you and a number of other posters would like to think this is.

 

If everything was this obvious,  then just any team could do it.

 

This game is HARD!

 

 

[Valpo2004]

On 10/14/2016 at 11:06 PM, NewColtsFan said:

 

I don't know why this thread is even happening.

 

We don't have a problem in 2016 because of what we did in 2012.

 

We have a problem in 2016 because of what we did in 2013 AND 2014.

 

Why is anyone talking about,  discussing,  or debating 2012?!?

 

Will someone explain this to me?

 

 

I agree, the 2012 draft class isn't the problem.  It's 2013 and 2014.  Our 2015 top pick seems to be failing as well.  

[NewColtsFan]

21 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

I agree, the 2012 draft class isn't the problem.  It's 2013 and 2014.  Our 2015 top pick seems to be failing as well.  

 

Yeah.......     so far,  Dorsett is not delivering and I can't seem to figure out why?

 

Health?      The routes that he runs?      Something is not right.      Gotta hope we can fix it,  because we need the kid to payoff.

 

[Valpo2004]

42 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Yeah.......     so far,  Dorsett is not delivering and I can't seem to figure out why?

 

Health?      The routes that he runs?      Something is not right.      Gotta hope we can fix it,  because we need the kid to payoff.

 

 

He's not getting enough separation and he's not winning any balls that he has to physically contest for.  

 

Think of how many times he's been in a physical contest to get the ball, he's been unable to get it and he's looked for the PI flag.  

[NewColtsFan]

40 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

He's not getting enough separation and he's not winning any balls that he has to physically contest for.  

 

Think of how many times he's been in a physical contest to get the ball, he's been unable to get it and he's looked for the PI flag.  

 

I understand all that.....

 

And I want to know....  WHY?

 

What's his problem?       Because he shouldn't be having the problems he's having.

 

 

[Valpo2004]

41 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I understand all that.....

 

And I want to know....  WHY?

 

What's his problem?       Because he shouldn't be having the problems he's having.

 

 

 

Why couldn't Bjorn Werner get to the QB even when he was playing against 3rd stringers in pre-season?  Don't know he's just not doing it.  

 

He's looking like a bust.  

[NewColtsFan]

Just now, Valpo2004 said:

 

Why couldn't Bjorn Werner get to the QB even when he was playing against 3rd stringers in pre-season?  Don't know he's just not doing it.  

 

He's looking like a bust.  

 

Werner wasn't athletic or skilled enough to do what needed to be done to succeed.

 

Athleticism is not Dorsett's problem.

 

[Coltscrazy]

I agree with you Jared.  It is not bad to have a plan.  Ours was clearly incorrect.  I don't think it is a hindsight 50/50 thing or an armchair GM thing.  Many, many people believe in a build the trenches first philosophy.  I happen to agree with them.  Own the line of scrimmage.  I don't know why so many do not think this is a vital part of the game.  I also agree with Polian on the 4-3 defense.  Not because of the scheme specifically, but because it is too expensive to make an elite 3-4 work.  It is expensive in both money and picks.  More players have to be dominant to make a 3-4 work.  I also wonder why so many people think you can stack talent at every single position under the cap.  You have to have a plan, and be able to afford the plan.  BPA only works if you find players that fit your salary cap model.

[wig]

The only thing I would have done drastically different is spent money in FA on fewer players I felt were difference makers, and less on againg stars. The biggest downfall this team had was being competitive right away and making Grigs try and get over what he saw as a small hill but was a steep climb in reality. Worst thing yiu can do in a rebuild is have a little success and try and rush it. 

[aReggie7]

I was 100% on board, and excited, when Polian and Caldwell were let go. After so many years of feeling like the Colts would have done better in the playoffs if they put more emphasis on defense I was excited because I believed that Irsay was looking to build more of  a run/strong defense team around Luck and not a high scoring team.

 

That's not to say the way the Colts built the team during the Manning years didn't work because it did. I was looking forward to seeing them get a chance to build around another franchise quarterback only do it a different way. One where we don't have to have the lead all of the time for our defense to stop the other team.

 

When the Colts only used one draft pick on defense, and a 5th round pick at that, I was disappointed. The Fleener pick puzzled me because everyone knew he wasn't going to be a good blocker and, based on how I thought Irsay wanted to build this team, I was surprised he was the pick.

 

I think the Fleener and Allen picks were a preview of what the Colts haven't done. That's have clear systems, on offense and defense, and get guys who specifically fit those systems. It feels like the Colts grade players and take whoever they think will produce the best regardless of system. The good teams get players who can play specific roles.

 

Basically I thought the Colts would, and should have, drafted players who have the greatest impact on most plays...that's QB, offensive linemen, and defensive players. Not saying that receivers, tight ends, and running backs are not important but teams with strong defenses don't draft those players high in a lot of drafts.

 

I know it's easy to say this is what the Colts should have done now...and I have no way to prove that's what I thought...but that's what I thought the Colts would look to do.

[Indianapolis-Colts-Fan]

In 2012 I would have drafted luck 1st overall. 

 

Using the next 2 picks I would have drafted the best available OGs. Using pick 4 for a TE. 

 

The rest of the draft would have been skill players like WR and RB. 

 

I would then search FA for Dline signing quality depth players and if I can find starters then maybe one starter. But the first year was tight money wise so I would stop there until 2013 draft and FA. 

 

In 2013 I would have used the first round pick on the BPA RT/LT doing the same in round 2. In round 3 I would head back to the Dline and add quality depth. Rounds 4-7 it would have to go towards more skill positions in RB and WR. 

 

In FA I would look for a starting center if their were any available. I would also look for starting quality LBrs. The 2013 offseason now ends. 

 

In 2014 I would draft best man on man CB in round 1. Safety in round 2. TE in round 3. Another CB in round 4. And then WRs and RBs in rounds 5-7

 

FA I would be looking for more defensive line starters. And quality oline depth.

 

2015 first pick goes towards CB. 2nd goes to LBrs. 3rd goes to defensive line depth. 4th goes to OG. 5- OG, 6 OG 7 WR.

 

FA looking for pass rushers. And starting quality LT/RT

 

2016 I would pick pass rusher in round 1. Then the best cover lbr available. Safety 3, 4 pass rusher, 5 TE, 6-7 WR/R

 

FA more oline and LBrs if they're available.