One-and-dones in the playoffs

[DalTXColtsFan]

I know that as a Colts/Manning fan I'm biased here, but I've always felt that while it's fine to criticize a QB, coach or team for going one-and-done in the playoffs, I've always felt like criticizing a team/coach/QB that did so well in the regular season that they got a first-round bye but lost in the divisonal round while at the same time *praising* a team/coach/QB that had a subpar regular season but to beat a wild card team at home for "getting it together at getting a playoff win".

 

A QB/team/coach that makes it to the divisional round via a great regular season should get the same praise *or* criticism as a team/coach/QB that "only" gets a 3-6 seed but wins one round.

 

Thoughts?

[BloodyChamp]

Every case is different. Some of those 1 and done efforts were the farthest possible that those teams were going.

[-JJ-]

I know that as a Colts/Manning fan I'm biased here, but I've always felt that while it's fine to criticize a QB, coach or team for going one-and-done in the playoffs, I've always felt like criticizing a team/coach/QB that did so well in the regular season that they got a first-round bye but lost in the divisonal round while at the same time *praising* a team/coach/QB that had a subpar regular season but to beat a wild card team at home for "getting it together at getting a playoff win".

 

A QB/team/coach that makes it to the divisional round via a great regular season should get the same praise *or* criticism as a team/coach/QB that "only" gets a 3-6 seed but wins one round.

 

Thoughts?

I agree. One and done is nothing more than a fan/media thing. Someone has to lose in the first round therefore be done.

[LJpalmbeacher2]

Yes, But when it's happened like 8 times.....

[BloodyChamp]

Forget the Buccaneers who had 14 straight losing seasons from 1982-1996. The real frauds are the 1980-1981 Buccaneers who went 1 and done!!!!!!!!! TWICE IN A ROW!!!!!!!

[CR91]

I agree. One and done is nothing more than a fan/media thing. Someone has to lose in the first round therefore be done.

 

talking like a peyton fan. its not just a media thing when it happens 9 times

[BloodyChamp]

And those 1987 49ers going 1 and done...against the VIKINGS that like cancels out all the SBs they won frauds they are frauds because they are frauds

[cmgww]

As a Colts fan those one and dones were disappointing, no doubt. Especially after blowing the doors off many teams during the regular season. There were always nail biters each season, for sure. But it seemed, especially later in the Manning era, that I was just waiting for the playoffs to start. We all expected regular season success. But I at least, started to expect underperformance in the playoffs. 2007 was understandable bc we were pretty decimated by injuries. 2008 sucked bc we had to play @SD despite us being 12-4 and them being 8-8. 2005 was the worst by far. 2010 sucked bc in hindsight it was Manning's last game as a Colt....but that team wasn't going too far due to another rash of injuries (Blair White, anyone?)

It boils down to this.....it's all about the playoffs. In any sport but especially in the NFL. People remember SB champs, not who got home field throughout the playoffs. Fair or not, that is the reality. The Braves are remembered for only 1 World Series win despite so many pennants and division titles. Same with the Colts thus far. But it sure beats being a Browns/Lions/Bucs fan

[19colt]

[19colt]

If you want to bag Manning for not taking over playoff games and winning them by himself then fine. Otherwise you need to look at things game by game before saying its just a Manning thing to go one and done.

99/00 - Manning was young so lets give him a pass. Many current young gunslingers are getting a pass right now

02 - Whole team destroyed, 2 deflected INT's - Manning D

05 - Whole team played poorly, terrible pass protection, with some luck they could have easily won - Manning C+

07 - Marvin playing injured, no running game, Billy Voley GW drive, failed at GL to end the game - Manning C-

08 - Worst starting position ever, lost TOP badly, lost in OT - Manning B+

10 - Injuries, Blair White, Caldwell showing why he shouldn't be a head coach - Manning B+

12 - Played well enough to win, pick 6 was PI, Raheem Moore, has bad INT in OT but should have been in the locker room - Manning B+ 

14 - Coaching staff had checked out, had no control over offense, may have been injured - Manning D

The main theme here is that Manning played well enough to win in 05, 08, 10 and 12. Maybe in 07 also but was let down by those around him. Forgive me if I don't remember these well enough as they have been some of the worst days so I tend to wipe them from memory as I am sure some of you have as well!

[-JJ-]

talking like a peyton fan. its not just a media thing when it happens 9 times

I'm happy to discuss the exceptions. My point is the whole 'one and done' saying is way over blown. as I mentioned sometime you just lose whether poor play or running into a hot team. Or even a close game where one team simply has to lose.

[CR91]

I'm happy to discuss the exceptions. My point is the whole 'one and done' saying is way over blown. as I mentioned sometime you just lose whether poor play or running into a hot team. Or even a close game where one team simply has to lose.

Are there exception? Sure, but only 3 of the teams that one and done peyton won the super bowl. Ravens pats Steelers

[chad72]

Are there exception? Sure, but only 3 of the teams that one and done peyton won the super bowl. Ravens pats Steelers

 

Chargers were indeed a bad match up for the Colts. I could never figure out why, as coaches, we couldn't figure them out in 2007-2010. Broncos, on the other hand, have lost to the Chargers only once in 3 years with Peyton for a record of 5-1.

 

If the Colts are going to be the #4 seed, which they will be, and get to play the #1 in the divisional round, my pecking order as to who to play would be:

 

Andy Dalton, Peyton Manning and the last would be Tom Brady

[CR91]

Chargers were indeed a bad match up for the Colts. I could never figure out why, as coaches, we couldn't figure them out in 2007-2010. Broncos, on the other hand, have lost to the Chargers only once in 3 years with Peyton for a record of 5-1.

 

If the Colts are going to be the #4 seed, which they will be, and get to play the #1 in the divisional round, my pecking order as to who to play would be:

 

Andy Dalton, Peyton Manning and the last would be Tom Brady

 

a bunch of reasons. 07, freeney was out so our pass rush was non-existant. 08, sproles against our 280 pound DTs and their punter had career games.

[jseg18]

a bunch of reasons. 07, freeney was out so our pass rush was non-existant. 08, sproles against our 280 pound DTs and their punter had career games.

I was at this game. Not only did Scifres pin us inside the 5 a few times, we also couldn't gain a yard on the ground. It made it difficult for 18 to move the chains.

[-JJ-]

Chargers were indeed a bad match up for the Colts. I could never figure out why, as coaches, we couldn't figure them out in 2007-2010. Broncos, on the other hand, have lost to the Chargers only once in 3 years with Peyton for a record of 5-1.

 

If the Colts are going to be the #4 seed, which they will be, and get to play the #1 in the divisional round, my pecking order as to who to play would be:

 

Andy Dalton, Peyton Manning and the last would be Tom Brady

gotta make it thru the wild card 1st. Just sayin'  Actually still got to win the division too.

[DalTXColtsFan]

I think people are missing the point.

 

In 1999, the Dolphins beat the 8-8 seahawks then got clobbered 62-7 in the div round.  The Colts didn't have to play a WC then lost a tough one to the Titans.  Was Marino a better QB than Manning because he won a playoff game and Manning didn't?  Was Johnson better coach than Mora for that reason, or the Dolphins a better *team* than the Colts?

 

Last year, the Broncos made it to the divisional round then went one and done.  The Ravens won a playoff game and then lost in the divisonal round.  Same questions - Manning/Flacco, Harbaugh/Fox, Broncos/Ravens.

 

Here's a great example:  The 2010 7-9 Seahawks won their playoff game against the Saints before losing to the Bears in the divisional round.  The 14-2 Patriots went one and done in the divisional round.  Was Matt Hasselbeck a better QB than Tom Brady that year?  Pete Carroll a better coach than Belichik?  The Seahawks a better team than the Patriots?

 

The point isn't really to Manning-bash, it's more to discuss whether or not winning one wild-card game is really any better *or* any worse than earning the right to not have to play one in the first place.

[DalTXColtsFan]

 

Playing devil's advocate, in 4 of those 9 playoff victories that horrible scoring defense suddenly learned how to PLAY defense in the playoffs.  NOBODY saw that coming, not even Colts fans.  He clearly got plenty of help on his Super Bowl run.

 

EDIT:  Also, to play devil's advocate, didn't the Colts have top 10 if not top 5 scoring defenses in both 2005 and 2007 when they went one-and-done?  And didn't they have a top 5 scoring defense in 2009 when they went 2-1 in the playoffs?  And what Denver's defensive rank last year and in 2012?  I seem to remember it was actually pretty good but I could be wrong.

 

But the point of the stat is 100% valid - teams that win in the playoffs are teams that can run the ball and play defense.  For whatever reason the Colts were seldom able to do either one let alone both in the playoffs during Manning's tenure.

[DalTXColtsFan]

Here's a worthless stat for you:  If you give a QB the same credit for earning the right to not have to play in the WC round that you give a QB for WINNING a round in the WC round, Manning's playoff record goes from 11-13 to 16-13.  For comparison, Joe Montana's would go from 16-7 to 19-7.

 

Here's something else that's interesting:  Montana played 16 seasons and took 11 teams to the playoffs.  Manning in 17 seasons has taken 14 teams to the playoffs.

 

Is it possible that the fact that he consistently carried inferior teams *to* the playoffs contributed to his subpar record there?

[jvan1973]

Here's a worthless stat for you: If you give a QB the same credit for earning the right to not have to play in the WC round that you give a QB for WINNING a round in the WC round, Manning's playoff record goes from 11-13 to 16-13. For comparison, Joe Montana's would go from 16-7 to 19-7.

Here's something else that's interesting: Montana played 16 seasons and took 11 teams to the playoffs. Manning in 17 seasons has taken 14 teams to the playoffs.

Is it possible that the fact that he consistently carried inferior teams *to* the playoffs contributed to his subpar record there?

Look no further than the 2010 team to the 2011 team

[Moose Of Woe]

Look no further than the 2010 team to the 2011 team

Ah...2010...the good old days of...

 

Zero run game.

Zero pass blocking.

A swiss cheese defense.

Joke of a coach.

Terrible special teams, kicker and punter aside. (Pretty sure we had Pat by that point.) Coverage and returns were abysmal like every year prior.

 

And we still went, what, 10-6? We had no business winning more than two games with that "team".  Of course we won two the next year with Painter, Collins who got crushed against PIT, and that other guy who I can't even remember.

 

Come to think of it, not much has changed since then apart from our special teams. I'm not cringing every time we receive the football for the past 3 years or so.

[19colt]

I was at this game. Not only did Scifres pin us inside the 5 a few times, we also couldn't gain a yard on the ground. It made it difficult for 18 to move the chains.

 

I seem to remember the Colts trying to push a square peg through a round hole with the run game in many key moments during Manning's final years in Indy. These days going shotgun or passing on 3rd and short is far more common. 

[coltsorioles]

In 2007 loss to the chargers at home. Manning played great. He had 2 deflected interceptions off wr hands in the red zone. Reggie Wayne and Kenton keith. And Marvin fumbled. It was one of mannings best games. The defense could not stop Billy volek ,Darren sproles and a crippled Antonio gates

[DalTXColtsFan]

Here's a worthless stat for you:  If you give a QB the same credit for earning the right to not have to play in the WC round that you give a QB for WINNING a round in the WC round, Manning's playoff record goes from 11-13 to 16-13.  For comparison, Joe Montana's would go from 16-7 to 19-7.

 

Here's something else that's interesting:  Montana played 16 seasons and took 11 teams to the playoffs.  Manning in 17 seasons has taken 14 teams to the playoffs.

 

Is it possible that the fact that he consistently carried inferior teams *to* the playoffs contributed to his subpar record there?

 

This post was actually not accurate.  I left out years where they earned the right to skip the WC round but then won the divisional round (and perhaps more).

[chad72]

Playing devil's advocate, in 4 of those 9 playoff victories that horrible scoring defense suddenly learned how to PLAY defense in the playoffs.  NOBODY saw that coming, not even Colts fans.  He clearly got plenty of help on his Super Bowl run.

 

EDIT:  Also, to play devil's advocate, didn't the Colts have top 10 if not top 5 scoring defenses in both 2005 and 2007 when they went one-and-done?  And didn't they have a top 5 scoring defense in 2009 when they went 2-1 in the playoffs?  And what Denver's defensive rank last year and in 2012?  I seem to remember it was actually pretty good but I could be wrong.

 

But the point of the stat is 100% valid - teams that win in the playoffs are teams that can run the ball and play defense.  For whatever reason the Colts were seldom able to do either one let alone both in the playoffs during Manning's tenure.

 

The other thing this stat re-inforces is regardless of what you did in the regular season for your rankings, how your defense plays in the playoffs is primarily what matters, IMO. People say Peyton took the 32nd ranked run D and Brady took the 32nd ranked pass D (in yardage of course) to the SB. But when they were en route to the SB, that D DID NOT play like the 32nd ranked run D or pass D, that is the clincher.

 

That is why Colts' D's regular season 2007 ranking or 2005 ranking did not mean much because when it mattered most, they dug holes for themselves and could not get the opponent off the field when it mattered in the playoffs. That 2012 Broncos' D, it felt like they just read their own paper clippings, managed a whopping 1 sack on Flacco despite Von Miller and Elvis Dumervil around for regulation plus OT and Champ Bailey got owned by Torrey Smith at 2 critical times giving back any momentum the Broncos got by going up a TD, and not to mention a Hail Mary that would have been defended better by Harbaugh or Belichick led units.

 

Giants in 2007 and 2011, they did not have top of the league rankings but when it was playoff time, they buckled up, did not give up more than 20 pts in ANY playoff game, dominated time of possession with their offense and defensive stops and went home with the Lombardi.

[Blue Horseshoe]

I've never paid much attention to them to be quite honest.  I like the regular season better than the playoffs because the players are healthier, the play is better, and there is more going on.

[BOTT]

I think people are missing the point.

 

In 1999, the Dolphins beat the 8-8 seahawks then got clobbered 62-7 in the div round.  The Colts didn't have to play a WC then lost a tough one to the Titans.  Was Marino a better QB than Manning because he won a playoff game and Manning didn't?  Was Johnson better coach than Mora for that reason, or the Dolphins a better *team* than the Colts?

 

Last year, the Broncos made it to the divisional round then went one and done.  The Ravens won a playoff game and then lost in the divisonal round.  Same questions - Manning/Flacco, Harbaugh/Fox, Broncos/Ravens.

 

Here's a great example:  The 2010 7-9 Seahawks won their playoff game against the Saints before losing to the Bears in the divisional round.  The 14-2 Patriots went one and done in the divisional round.  Was Matt Hasselbeck a better QB than Tom Brady that year?  Pete Carroll a better coach than Belichik?  The Seahawks a better team than the Patriots?

 

The point isn't really to Manning-bash, it's more to discuss whether or not winning one wild-card game is really any better *or* any worse than earning the right to not have to play one in the first place.

This