Andre Johnson asks to be cut or traded

[jskinnz]

Nice job by Indy. Couldn't find a better veteran to step in and fill whatever void Reggie Wayne's departure will leave behind. Any team would be fortunate to have AJ. Seems a bit high money-wise but I haven't seen the details and am guessing the last year on the deal is an easy out for the team if they want (or even the last two). 

 

The Colts have added some nice pieces and still have the draft to fix the foundation. I'd rather see my team fill out some skill position players with FA and get the "bigs" through the draft, which seems to be their exact approach. 

 

Sentiment around here is that the Colts got better in FA while the Pats did not.  On the surface that appears to be true but not sure if the Colts improved enough or if the Pats fell far enough to even up the two.  I actually don't anticipate the Pats falling off too much until the Brady / Belechick era comes to a merciful end.

 

What is your avatar?

[Superman]

FA is about filling needs. This was not a top need for you IMO. He is a nice addition but this was more of an emotional signing I am sure for the Colts to stick it to the Texans and for sure will continue to help the offense that led the league in points for most of last year but you could have better allocated that money to pressing needs. Luck will make it work with whomever is out there that is obvious at this poiint. He needs protection and Gore needs a line to run behind.

 

There is no way to do the math on the Colts telling Reggie Wayne and Cory Redding that they won't be re-signed, then turning around and signing Andre Johnson, and come out with the conclusion that these decisions were emotional, or just to stick it to the Texans. The Colts stick it to the Texans twice a year, in the only way that matters.

 

Free agency is about making your team better. The Colts WR/RB groups are better now. 

 

And signing Gore and Johnson really has nothing to do with the team's plans for the line play on either side of the ball. There is still money to allocate, should the team decide to add more players. This is not an either/or proposition.

[GoPats]

Sentiment around here is that the Colts got better in FA while the Pats did not.  On the surface that appears to be true but not sure if the Colts improved enough or if the Pats fell far enough to even up the two.  I actually don't anticipate the Pats falling off too much until the Brady / Belechick era comes to a merciful end.

 

What is your avatar?

 

So far it would be hard to argue against that notion (that the Colts are improving through FA while the Patriots have had some attrition). Obviously Revis is gone, Browner is gone, Wilfork is gone (for now)... there's 3 of your defensive starters right there.

 

I'm not as concerned about Vereen leaving (you can replace his production) and for the most part the offense will remain intact.

 

Meanwhile Indy's added some nice pieces. I like the Gore signing a lot, and at this point AJ will give you more than Reggie has the past couple of years. Get a little stouter on the lines, and Indy will be trending toward becoming a very complete team. I guess you never know until they start playing the games, but it's so much easier for teams to build when they have the answer at QB. Look at everything the Bills and Jets and Dolphins are doing... and I would bet you that all three of those teams finish with nine wins or less. 

 

The avatar is a pic of me topping out on an ice climb up in Crawford Notch, NH. Not far from where I used to live and work. 

[jskinnz]

So far it would be hard to argue against that notion (that the Colts are improving through FA while the Patriots have had some attrition). Obviously Revis is gone, Browner is gone, Wilfork is gone (for now)... there's 3 of your defensive starters right there.

 

I'm not as concerned about Vereen leaving (you can replace his production) and for the most part the offense will remain intact.

 

Meanwhile Indy's added some nice pieces. I like the Gore signing a lot, and at this point AJ will give you more than Reggie has the past couple of years. Get a little stouter on the lines, and Indy will be trending toward becoming a very complete team. I guess you never know until they start playing the games, but it's so much easier for teams to build when they have the answer at QB. Look at everything the Bills and Jets and Dolphins are doing... and I would bet you that all three of those teams finish with nine wins or less. 

 

The avatar is a pic of me topping out on an ice climb up in Crawford Notch, NH. Not far from where I used to live and work. 

 

The AFC East got more interesting this week but I am not sold on Tannehill and the Bills and Fins made strides but without the QB...  Since 2003, the only QB's to represent the AFC in the Super Bowl have been Brady, Big Ben, & Manning with the lone outlier being Flacco.  Without a QB, you have no chance regardless of how good the rest of your team is.

[BlueCollarColts]

Well, you think you know a guy...but like I said earlier in the thread, this will just make it feel better when we beat the Colts.

Not happening. 

[GoPats]

The AFC East got more interesting this week but I am not sold on Tannehill and the Bills and Fins made strides but without the QB...  Since 2003, the only QB's to represent the AFC in the Super Bowl have been Brady, Big Ben, & Manning with the lone outlier being Flacco.  Without a QB, you have no chance regardless of how good the rest of your team is.

 

Exactly. You can count the exceptions on one hand. I think the East will be improved but I still don't see any of those teams passing NE at this point. Not yet anyway.

[Qwiz]

Not happening.

Yuh huh

[dw49]

Exactly. You can count the exceptions on one hand. I think the East will be improved but I still don't see any of those teams passing NE at this point. Not yet anyway.

 

 

Not likely unless Brady starts playing like a 37 year old or Gronk gets hurt. Either of those two guys fall off a cliff and I think NE is no longer a dominant team. I really do think the Colts have probably caught up with them. But that remains to be seen.

[amfootball]

Not likely unless Brady starts playing like a 37 year old or Gronk gets hurt. Either of those two guys fall off a cliff and I think NE is no longer a dominant team. I really do think the Colts have probably caught up with them. But that remains to be seen.

Until the Colts give NE a competitive game it is hard to see them as a legit threat. I still put the Ravens and Denver ahead depending of course on how Manning plays. If he looks anything like he did the last 8 games last year than I would say Pats, Ravens, Colts.

[dw49]

Until the Colts give NE a competitive game it is hard to see them as a legit threat. I still put the Ravens and Denver ahead depending of course on how Manning plays. If he looks anything like he did the last 8 games last year than I would say Pats, Ravens, Colts.

http://www.vegasinsider.com/nfl/odds/futures/  These are guys that put their money where their mouth is. Colts 10-1 Balt 25-1.

 

Here's another set of odds.... Colts 12-1 balt 30-1

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/02/02/oddsmaker-makes-seahawks-5-1-favorites-to-win-super-bowl-50/

 

Plus these are BEFORE the free agent moves. Probably the available money was factored into the odds  , so maybe they won't move much off this. To give you an idea , I told my son who has connections to the best available odds to get me down for 1K on the Colts at 12-1 or better . It's not out there. They are pretty much the 2nd favorite in the AFC. Nobody has Baltimore ahead of them because they played the Pats tougher than the Colts. That's really not how you rate teams. Furthermore that first game was only a 1 score game with about 10 minutes left . 

[Qwiz]

http://www.vegasinsider.com/nfl/odds/futures/ These are guys that put their money where their mouth is. Colts 10-1 Balt 25-1.

Here's another set of odds.... Colts 12-1 balt 30-1

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/02/02/oddsmaker-makes-seahawks-5-1-favorites-to-win-super-bowl-50/

Plus these are BEFORE the free agent moves. Probably the available money was factored into the odds , so maybe they won't move much off this. To give you an idea , I told my son who has connections to the best available odds to get me down for 1K on the Colts at 12-1 or better . It's not out there. They are pretty much the 2nd favorite in the AFC. Nobody has Baltimore ahead of them because they played the Pats tougher than the Colts. That's really not how you rate teams. Furthermore that first game was only a 1 score game with about 10 minutes left .

I think what AM is saying is that given recent history, the Ravens have a better chance of dethroning New England then the Colts. It isn't unthinkable given the difference in scores in those past games. The season isn't won in the offseason alone, all we are going off of is paper right now when it comes to acquisitions.

[jvan1973]

Until the Colts give NE a competitive game it is hard to see them as a legit threat. I still put the Ravens and Denver ahead depending of course on how Manning plays. If he looks anything like he did the last 8 games last year than I would say Pats, Ravens, Colts.

The colts are a better team today than they were at any point last season

The colts beat the ravens and broncos last season

[dw49]

I think what AM is saying is that given recent history, the Ravens have a better chance of dethroning New England then the Colts. It isn't unthinkable given the difference in scores in those past games. The season isn't won in the offseason alone, all we are going off of is paper right now when it comes to acquisitions.

 

 

What I showed her is how people that know that business rate the Colt's chances compared to the Raven's chances. It's not even close. Colts are 10-1 while the Ravens are 25-1. Just because the Ravens played the Pats tough in the playoffs doesn't make them a better bet to dethrone NE. People who put their money where their mouths are don't figure it out that way.  Comparing her knowledge to the book makers in Las Vegas is like comparing my knowledge of baking a pie to Betty Crocker's. 

[dw49]

The colts are a better team today than they were at any point last season

The colts beat the ravens and broncos last season

 

The Colts played a horrible game vs the Pats while the Pats played a perfect game vs the Colts. Happens all the time and means very little to rating a team going forward.

 

BTW... the Colts totally stomped Baltimore. That game with a play here and there could have been a blow out. No way it was contested as closely as the score might indicate.

[Superman]

The Colts played a horrible game vs the Pats while the Pats played a perfect game vs the Colts. Happens all the time and means very little to rating a team going forward.

 

BTW... the Colts totally stomped Baltimore. That game with a play here and there could have been a blow out. No way it was contested as closely as the score might indicate.

 

Smash-mouthed football for four quarters, on both sides of the ball. Just too many mistakes. They cleaned up a lot of the mistakes and shut out the Bengals two weeks later.

 

Those games show how good this team can be, and how close they are to being the kind of hard-nosed team that they keep talking about becoming.

[Superman]

By the way, I'm soooo sick of hearing about dethroning New England.

 

I'm more worried about enthroning the Colts. That means beating whoever is in the way. I'm not even sure New England is up to the challenge in 2015, honestly.

[dw49]

Smash-mouthed football for four quarters, on both sides of the ball. Just too many mistakes. They cleaned up a lot of the mistakes and shut out the Bengals two weeks later.

 

Those games show how good this team can be, and how close they are to being the kind of hard-nosed team that they keep talking about becoming.

 

 

2014 was a crazy year for the Colts. 11 wins and 2 more in the playoffs is commendable given how young the team was. But those losses vs Pitt , Dallas and NE were mind boggling

[jvan1973]

By the way, I'm soooo sick of hearing about dethroning New England.

I'm more worried about enthroning the Colts. That means beating whoever is in the way. I'm not even sure New England is up to the challenge in 2015, honestly.

Who plays corner for them next season?

[Superman]

2014 was a crazy year for the Colts. 11 wins and 2 more in the playoffs is commendable given how young the team was. But those losses vs Pitt , Dallas and NE were mind boggling

 

I don't even count Dallas. The coaches treated it like a scout game. I don't think they intended to get blown out 42-7, but I don't think they were very concerned with winning. 

 

Pittsburgh and NE, yeah. Not good, and we play both of them in 2015. But the Steelers threw all over us, something no one else was able to do, and for whatever reason, we tried to be a zone blitz defense in that game. It's like we were trying to show off for Dick LeBeau. I don't expect to see that again, especially if Cole brings the pass rush like he's being paid to do.

 

We've talked plenty about the Pats games. Coaching and execution, not quality of roster. JMO

[Superman]

Who plays corner for them next season?

 

The strength of their defense just walked out the door for $39m. Their pass rush needs work. If Jerod Mayo isn't back and strong, they'll have trouble covering the middle of the field. And so on...

 

Still a lot of time to go in free agency, and then there's the draft. But that defense will look a LOT different next season.

[dw49]

I don't even count Dallas. The coaches treated it like a scout game. I don't think they intended to get blown out 42-7, but I don't think they were very concerned with winning. 

 

Pittsburgh and NE, yeah. Not good, and we play both of them in 2015. But the Steelers threw all over us, something no one else was able to do, and for whatever reason, we tried to be a zone blitz defense in that game. It's like we were trying to show off for Dick LeBeau. I don't expect to see that again, especially if Cole brings the pass rush like he's being paid to do.

 

We've talked plenty about the Pats games. Coaching and execution, not quality of roster. JMO

 

 

If I were Irsay , I would have been very disappointed with my staff after that second NE game. So yeah ...JYO is also JMO.

[BlueCollarColts]

I still say that we don't need all pro monster defensive lineman to stop New England from running on us. New England isn't some power house run game, it shouldn't take power house run stoppers to stop them. 

[Superman]

If I were Irsay , I would have been very disappointed with my staff after that second NE game. So yeah ...JYO is also JMO.

 

I'm certain Pagano got his butt kicked, and then the rest of the staff got their butts kicked. 

[Qwiz]

What I showed her is how people that know that business rate the Colt's chances compared to the Raven's chances. It's not even close. Colts are 10-1 while the Ravens are 25-1. Just because the Ravens played the Pats tough in the playoffs doesn't make them a better bet to dethrone NE. People who put their money where their mouths are don't figure it out that way. Comparing her knowledge to the book makers in Las Vegas is like comparing my knowledge of baking a pie to Betty Crocker's.

So bc Vegas says so it is magically true? That's not how that works.

[jvan1973]

So bc Vegas says so it is magically true? That's not how that works.

As far as favorites, that's exactly how it works

[Qwiz]

As far as favorites, that's exactly how it works

So Vegas has never been wrong before. Interesting. They should give me my lotto numbers and my future wife's phone number.

[jvan1973]

So Vegas has never been wrong before. Interesting. They should give me my lotto numbers and my future wife's phone number.

Obviously that's not what I said. I said favorites

[dw49]

So bc Vegas says so it is magically true? That's not how that works.

 

No some lady and some college kid know more than the sports books in Vegas ?

 

 Of coarse it doesn't make it true. Just telling you what people who make millions of $'s putting out betting odds feel about which team is better .. the Ravens or the Colts. 

 

Please tell me how it works...

[Qwiz]

Obviously that's not what I said. I said favorites

Favorites based on what? This came out before free agency, someone said.

[Qwiz]

No some lady and some college kid know more than the sports books in Vegas ?

Of coarse it doesn't make it true. Just telling you what people who make millions of $'s putting out betting odds feel about which team is better .. the Ravens or the Colts.

Please tell me how it works...

I couldn't tell you either because football is so unpredictable. But if we are looking at recent history and common scores against a single opponent (New England) the Ravens grade out higher then the Colts. And I'm not trying to downtalk your team, honest.

[jvan1973]

Favorites based on what? This came out before free agency, someone said.

Favorites as of now in Vegas. The colts have 5 to 1 odds right now to win the superbowl. Obviously that doesn't mean anything other than that are the betting odds as of today

[Qwiz]

Favorites as of now in Vegas. The colts have 5 to 1 odds right now to win the superbowl. Obviously that doesn't mean anything other than that are the betting odds as of today

That wasn't the gist of the original conversation but whatever.

[dw49]

I couldn't tell you either because football is so unpredictable. But if we are looking at recent history and common scores against a single opponent (New England) the Ravens grade out higher then the Colts. And I'm not trying to downtalk your team, honest.

 

 

So if say Tampa Bay played the Cowboys and lost by a point and the Colts played the Cowboys and lost by 20 points, The Colts beat Tampa Bay up by a considerable margin and finished 11-5 and TB finished at 5-11. In the offseason the Colts add a bunch of players and TB adds noone. 

 

That all said , you and the lady that watches football say by "common sense" TB "grades out better than the Colts." That is absolutely ludicrous. And no ... I'm not saying that because Vegas says so it makes it true . What I'm saying is you have people who are the best in the world at rating teams and they have the Colts rated far .. far above the Ravens. So what I'm saying is when she stats that the Ravnes would be favored to be overtake the Pats like it's fact .. it's absolute not true. The Fact is that there really is a betting line for what she's talking about. The people that make that line take bets of hundreds of thousands of $'s on the lines they make. That line is Colts 10-1 Ravens 25-1. I'm not saying that it means the Colts will definitely finish better than the Ravens. What I'm saying is that anyone who says that I'm wrong when I say the Colts would be 2nd favorites to win the SB of the AFC teams , that person is wrong as they actually ARE the 2nd favorite along with Denver. That's fact. It's like me saying the line for the SB is Seattle minus 2. You and AM come on and say no NE should be favored by 11 for what fever cockamamie reasons you have. Fact is you and her would be WRONG. The line was Seatlle minus 2. Just like the line is Indy 10-1  Balt 25-1.

[dw49]

That wasn't the gist of the original conversation but whatever.

 Yeah it really was. I said the Colts were the second favorites to win the SB in the AFC. I went in to say that IMO , I think they probably have caught up with the Pats. She came on and said until Indy played NE tougher , Balt would be favored over the Colts. I pointed out that the people who make those kind of odds greatly disagree with her.

[dw49]

Favorites based on what? This came out before free agency, someone said.

 

 

Here ya go.. here's the NEW odds After free agency. Colts now favored over the pats and everyone else.

 

http://espn.go.com/chalk/story/_/id/12470885/nfl-free-agency-draws-mixed-reaction-las-vegas-colts-eagles-odds-improve

[Qwiz]

So if say Tampa Bay played the Cowboys and lost by a point and the Colts played the Cowboys and lost by 20 points, The Colts beat Tampa Bay up by a considerable margin and finished 11-5 and TB finished at 5-11. In the offseason the Colts add a bunch of players and TB adds noone.

That all said , you and the lady that watches football say by "common sense" TB "grades out better than the Colts." That is absolutely ludicrous. And no ... I'm not saying that because Vegas says so it makes it true . What I'm saying is you have people who are the best in the world at rating teams and they have the Colts rated far .. far above the Ravens. So what I'm saying is when she stats that the Ravnes would be favored to be overtake the Pats like it's fact .. it's absolute not true. The Fact is that there really is a betting line for what she's talking about. The people that make that line take bets of hundreds of thousands of $'s on the lines they make. That line is Colts 10-1 Ravens 25-1. I'm not saying that it means the Colts will definitely finish better than the Ravens. What I'm saying is that anyone who says that I'm wrong when I say the Colts would be 2nd favorites to win the SB of the AFC teams , that person is wrong as they actually ARE the 2nd favorite along with Denver. That's fact. It's like me saying the line for the SB is Seattle minus 2. You and AM come on and say no NE should be favored by 11 for what fever cockamamie reasons you have. Fact is you and her would be WRONG. The line was Seatlle minus 2. Just like the line is Indy 10-1 Balt 25-1.

What if I don't agree with Vegas? In my opinion they're wrong. And your hypothetical had nothing to do with the reality of what we were talking about either.

[Qwiz]

Here ya go.. here's the NEW odds After free agency. Colts now favored over the pats and everyone else.

http://espn.go.com/chalk/story/_/id/12470885/nfl-free-agency-draws-mixed-reaction-las-vegas-colts-eagles-odds-improve

Cool. Let's see if Vegas has that crystal ball wiped well enough.

[Qwiz]

Yeah it really was. I said the Colts were the second favorites to win the SB in the AFC. I went in to say that IMO , I think they probably have caught up with the Pats. She came on and said until Indy played NE tougher , Balt would be favored over the Colts. I pointed out that the people who make those kind of odds greatly disagree with her.

So you think the Colts can beat NE now because Vegas thinks it can be done? The oddsmakers can disagree if they want but they aren't God. They aren't automatically right in everything they say.

[jvan1973]

So you think the Colts can beat NE now because Vegas thinks it can be done? The oddsmakers can disagree if they want but they aren't God. They aren't automatically right in everything they say.

They are right far more often than fans

[Qwiz]

They are right far more often than fans

What are the odds on that being true, I wonder.