Jump to content
Indianapolis Colts
Conversations are moderated for civility. We ask that you please stay on topic. For more info, see our Community Guidelines ×
Indianapolis Colts Fan Forum

should colts consider a zone blocking scheme

Coltivated

By Coltivated
in Colts Football

 Share

Recommended Posts

Coltivated Walk On

Coltivated

Posted
Posted

Don't know all the x's & o's for say but the man scheme we have run had not been very successful imo. I know overall line talent would dictate success regardless of scheme. Im saying it might be worth consideration. New running back coach new scheme? wanted feed back on idea

Link to comment
Share on other sites
pacolts56 Active Roster

pacolts56

Posted
Posted

Just curious....what other NFL teams run a man blocking scheme and how successful are their ground games?

 

I'd be interested to hear from Forum X's & O's folks how this may or may not complicate what we've been running up to this point, and what would be involved in installing it?

 

With 2 or perhaps 3 O-line positions and out RBs unsettled, I'm open for anything that gets us a consistent, solid running game that forces defenses to respect it....as long as it's something that can be converted to reasonably quickly. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Luck_Is_Skilled Walk On

Luck_Is_Skilled

Posted
Posted

They should consider a block for Adrian Peterson type of scheme.

 

I'd be completely comfortable with management if they gave up an RG3 bounty to get AP. Call me crazy, but unless you can tell me who's a better back in the league, I dont really care about your opinions. But please do give them, I like healthy discussion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Gavin Walk On

Gavin

Posted
Posted

He sat out the entire year without any injuries which means he's completely fresh. Besides, who's better?

It has nothing to to do with whos better, Peterson was great and likely still is but the O Line problems need to come first, Fix those and ya suddenly have a rb that can run well

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Luck_Is_Skilled Walk On

Luck_Is_Skilled

Posted
Posted

It has nothing to to do with whos better, Peterson was great and likely still is but the O Line problems need to come first, Fix those and ya suddenly have a rb that can run well

What? That makes no sense. It has everything to do with who's better. You are basically saying that Donald Brown would look good in Dallas.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Surge89 Walk On

Surge89

Posted
Posted

What? That makes no sense. It has everything to do with who's better. You are basically saying that Donald Brown would look good in Dallas.

What? lol... He definitely would... He would probably live up to the first round pick we gave up for him...

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Surge89 Walk On

Surge89

Posted
Posted

No, dude was never even worthy of that pick. We should have chosen Beanie Wells. A scrub is a srub.

 

So at this point and time I think I have enough information to deduce that you are in fact infatuated with the player instead of actually realizing the circumstance of the player.  30 is a hard age for any running back, and even then he was not as dominant as he used to be in the last physical piece of evidence that we have seen.  

 

As far as DB I never said he was worth the pick I just made the simple statement that behind the Dallas O-Line (the best in the NFL) he would probably live up to that 1st pick just like the other 50 backs in the league would behind that outstanding O-Line...

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Gavin Walk On

Gavin

Posted
Posted

So at this point and time I think I have enough information to deduce that you are in fact infatuated with the player instead of actually realizing the circumstance of the player.  30 is a hard age for any running back, and even then he was not as dominant as he used to be in the last physical piece of evidence that we have seen.  

 

As far as DB I never said he was worth the pick I just made the simple statement that behind the Dallas O-Line (the best in the NFL) he would probably live up to that 1st pick just like the other 50 backs in the league would behind that outstanding O-Line...

I'd be willing to bet Brown likely would get to dinged up to get enough carries, Not necessarily an injury but dinged up to where he has to come out often enough, He is very slight of build if you have seen him up close

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Surge89 Walk On

Surge89

Posted
Posted

I'd be willing to bet Brown like would get to dinged up to get enough carries, Not necessarily an injury but dinged up to where he has to come out often enough, He is very slight of build if you have seen him up close

 

Agreed.  He wasn't durable, but man did he have some speed. Could you imagine him actually being able to get to the 2nd level?  What could of been ...lol

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Luck_Is_Skilled Walk On

Luck_Is_Skilled

Posted
Posted

So at this point and time I think I have enough information to deduce that you are in fact infatuated with the player instead of actually realizing the circumstance of the player.  30 is a hard age for any running back, and even then he was not as dominant as he used to be in the last physical piece of evidence that we have seen.  

 

As far as DB I never said he was worth the pick I just made the simple statement that behind the Dallas O-Line (the best in the NFL) he would probably live up to that 1st pick just like the other 50 backs in the league would behind that outstanding O-Line...

The fact that its Adrian Peterson makes no difference to me. I want us to to have an elite running back behind Andrew. I want to have a back who is special, not someone who is solely dependant on his offensive line.

 

As for Peterson's dominance, dude, he played 1 game and got 75 yards. This guy won an MVP after an ACL. Imagine what he can do after a year of rest. There isnt a single running back in the NFL whom Id remotely consider to be better, 30 or not.

 

Our O-line isnt the best at pass blocking but guess what, we have a QB who is still capable of throwing 40 td's. Get my drift?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Surge89 Walk On

Surge89

Posted
Posted

The fact that its Adrian Peterson makes no difference to me. I want us to to have an elite running back behind Andrew. I want to have a back who is special, not someone who is solely dependant on his offensive line.

 

Our O-line isnt the best at pass blocking but guess what, we have a QB who is still capable of throwing 40 td's. Get my drift?

 

Ok, now we are cooking with peanut oil.  While I agree it would be nice I think the point me and Gavin are trying to point out is that a dynamic RB with the ability you speak of doesn't really change that Luck will be under siege.  It is much more efficient to fix the O-line into an above average unit in both pass and run blocking and put a decent back behind Luck who can grind some yards.  With Luck's ability to scramble and the Line giving him more time to throw should create more space at the 2nd level for a RB to get to thus resulting in a better run game.  :thmup:

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Gavin Walk On

Gavin

Posted
Posted

Agreed.  He wasn't durable, but man did he have some speed. Could you imagine him actually being able to get to the 2nd level?  What could of been ...lol

I think the injuries he suffered...specifically his ankle took some toll on his speed, But it was on full display with Lucks very first td pass

Link to comment
Share on other sites
NewColtsFan Ring of Honor

NewColtsFan

Posted
Posted

Yes.

 

I think a ZBS is easier to teach,  easier to learn,  and easier to perform.   

 

More high schools use them and so do most colleges.     So, there are more players ready to play in a ZBS than there are in a man blocking scheme.

 

I also think a ZBS is better when something doesn't qo quite right....    there are more possible holes for a RB to cut into when the primary doesn't work out....

 

For three years we've been trying man blocking without much success....   it's time for zone blocking.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Gavin Walk On

Gavin

Posted
Posted

So you really believe that McCoy, Charles, Forte and Morris are or were ever better than AP?

 

THEY dont even believe they were ever better than AP.

At the end of the day production trumps all...Not what a player CAN do but what he does do.......McCoy was better then Peterson in 2013....So was Morris, Charles. Peterson is/was a great Back no question and at time the best Back in the league.......He wasn't untouchable

Link to comment
Share on other sites
NewColtsFan Ring of Honor

NewColtsFan

Posted
Posted

I'm down for Zone Blocking, but if I had to offer a counter argument I will say we spent a number of seasons with a ZBS and had a sorry running game as well.

 

As bad as it may have been,  I can't imagine it was as bad as what we've been seeing for the past 3 years.....

 

You've been a Colts fan much longer than me....    So, I'm asking....   was it THIS bad?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Gavin Walk On

Gavin

Posted
Posted

As bad as it may have been,  I can't imagine it was as bad as what we've been seeing for the past 3 years.....

 

You've been a Colts fan much longer than me....    So, I'm asking....   was it THIS bad?

haven't had a 1000 yard rusher since 2007(Joseph Addai was pretty good pre-injuries).......Running game went straight to hell when Guard Jake Scott left and Tarik Glenn retired

Link to comment
Share on other sites
krunk Ring of Honor

krunk

Posted
Posted

As bad as it may have been,  I can't imagine it was as bad as what we've been seeing for the past 3 years.....

 

You've been a Colts fan much longer than me....    So, I'm asking....   was it THIS bad?

 

Honestly I think it was pretty bad then too.  At least under this man blocking scheme we can say Vick Ballard almost went for 1000 yards.  The ZBS was good for most of E. James tenure but it went down hill after him.  Addai had decent year or two, but some of his stay and definitely after him we were pretty terrible on the ground as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Coltivated Walk On

Coltivated

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Trent dominated in Alabama in a zbs.he did ok in Cleveland in a zbs.he did nothing in our scheme. Thier are alot of great zbs backs that would do nothing in a man scheme. And vise versa. I think alot of the backs in college are zbs guys if I'm not mistaken. gordon,Ezekiel Elliott,idk about Gurley or Tevin Coleman

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Coltivated Walk On

Coltivated

Posted
  • Author
Posted

In almost every single way, it seems that the zone-stretch scheme is superior to the man-power when it comes to rushing effectiveness and efficiency. Teams using this rushing offense produce NEP more effectively – likely due to the versatility of the blocking assignments (allowing linemen to assess threats on the fly and adjust) – and the zone-stretch’s per play efficiency is also greater than the man-power, proving that this is not just a volume advantage for accumulating NEP. In fact, 13 of the top 15 Rushing NEP seasons since 2004 have come from zone-stretch run schemes. The only area in which the man-power scheme trumps zone-stretch for running back value is that the former will have a greater propensity for running the ball in play selection ratios.

Some teams have the personnel to run a man-power scheme very effectively, such as Bill Musgrave’s 2013 Minnesota Vikings: with a top five road-grading offensive line and a fantastic running back in Adrian Peterson, the historical limitations of the scheme didn’t hinder them. However, if you are a coordinator looking to spice up your team’s rushing, or a fantasy owner looking for both value and opportunity from your running backs, bet on the zone-stretch teams. Their complexity is all worthwhile when you see the results. https://m.numberfire.com/nfl/news/3065/which-nfl-running-scheme-is-the-most-effective

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Surge89 Walk On

Surge89

Posted
Posted

As bad as it may have been,  I can't imagine it was as bad as what we've been seeing for the past 3 years.....

 

You've been a Colts fan much longer than me....    So, I'm asking....   was it THIS bad?

 

Complicated to answer.  The zone blocking scheme we had during Peyton's time here worked well when the oline had talent.  The oline we have now is probably more talented than the one we had for Manning's last 4 or so years.  A lot of fans are going to remember the line with the loss of Glenn, Lilja, Diem and Scott a declining Saturday and the mistake that was named Ugoh.  But Grigson from what I have seen, looks to be much better at drafting talent for the oline than Polian.  It got rough until the drafting of Costanzo which was the last Polian pick...

 

I like the ZBS because you help your lineman by utilizing angles.  Plus our scheme has a ton of pulls and shifts that really confuse me.  It seems (of course this is just my opinion) to me that it is overly complicated... You weren't around for the Edge years but Manning's mastery of selling the play action with Edge's quickness to the hole on the basic strong side stretch was awesome to watch.  The great thing about it was Manning could throw 3 or 4 different TE route combinations on one stretch or have the TE do an outside right block or cut back sweep all with the exact same formation with a simple call.  Really great stuff.  The ACE formation was so deadly with that line (see the 2004 season).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share
Go to topic listing

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...