Why Is Everyone So Caught Up On Luck?

[Ramblinwreck7]

This isn't the only draft pick we are ever going to have again despite what some people are making it out to be. Irsay is smart enough to know at best you probably have three to four years left of Manning. He's trying to set themselves up so they don't become the Miami Dolphins or Buffalo Bills when their franchise QB leaves where 15 years later you are still trying to replace him. This is a QB driven league if you see a guy who is going to be the next great one and you have a chance to draft him you do it.

Also this roster is not as bad as most people might think yes even with the 0-12 record. They are 0-12 because the whole thing dependent on having a super star QB make the thing go and we don't have anything close to that right now. If they had that this year they are probably at worst 8-4 right now and people aren't gripping about the roster. We fix the QB spot and we are going to fix a lot of these other problems and yes we can keep adding talent in other rounds of the draft and in future drafts. We aren't going to fix three to four years worth of sub par drafts in one draft even if we do trade Luck for probably at most three or four more picks.

I don't think we have a bad roster, we are just very depleted, especially at CB after we let Kelvin Hayden and Justin Tryon go.

I think that we can get the roster back in shape if we trade Luck and draft several good players.

If Peyton Manning comes back next year, we will probably make the playoffs if we draft well after picking Andrew Luck. We will still have big holes though so we probably won't win the Super Bowl. Then the next year, we draft more players, and hopefully we can draft well again with our picks. Because we made the playoffs, we will pick later in each round as usual. That's a whole year wasted though, and maybe 2 if we don't draft well for these next few years. I just find it a lot easier to win a Super Bowl with Manning if we don't draft Andrew Luck. It makes our team less talented except for the addition of a very good backup quarterback who won't be needed for a few years.

[Dustin]

I would say yes, but what is elite?

I'm talking about Favre, Russel, Stafford and Cutler type arm strength. Basically the comparison I was trying to make is that the four guys I mention had (have) some of the NFL's strongest arms, but are no where near the success of Manning and Brady.

[Moncrief]

then he just told me the guy kind of guy he is and it's not one that I want running my team.

Why because what I get from that is the kid has got a swagger about him and huge confidence in himself and his play.

[Balzer40]

Why because what I get from that is the kid has got a swagger about him and huge confidence in himself and his play.

I want a QB that knows he's good without having to tell people that he is. You know, much like Manning and this kid named....Luck!

I absolutely hate arrogance espesially from a college athlete because they are destined to become a prima donna when they get rich and famous being a pro athlete.

[Jason_]

Irsay was quoted earlier this week as saying he wants Manning and Luck here next year. Now granted that didn't come right from his mouth it was reported by someone on ESPN but I highly doubt that person just made it up.

When did he say this? I've been watching ESPN shows all week and haven't seen anything reported about him saying that. Got a link or remember who reported it?

[GoColts8818]

When did he say this? I've been watching ESPN shows all week and haven't seen anything reported about him saying that. Got a link or remember who reported it?

There are plunty of quotes from it on the forum from earlier this week I think it was Clayton who reported it.

http://www.profootballweekly.com/2011/12/09/luck-and-manning-both-will-be-colts-in-2012

That's not from Clayton but it has a quote saying a source says Irsay wants his cake and to eat it too when talking about Manning and Luck.

[ColtsBlueFL]

ESPN and CNN/SI "pundits" claimed Ryan Leaf to be "pro-ready" also... What happened there? http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/events/1998/nfldraft/topplayers/3.html

VVVVV THIS!! VVVVVV

However, there appears to be some minor nagging questions in the area of maturity and his mental approach to the game. He is perceived as not always an easy guy to work with, and he tends to beat to his own drummer...As good as he is, he can have some streaks on the field where he looks like he has forgotten everything he has been taught...There seems to be a nagging question here that something might be missing, but it may be hard to verbalize it...However, Leaf made all the right moves at the end of his season when he declared for the NFL draft...Unless he turns some teams off in individual interviews between now and the draft

^^^^^ ^^^^^

I Don't think you'll find anything like this on Peyton or Andrew.

[Moncrief]

I want a QB that knows he's good without having to tell people that he is. You know, much like Manning and this kid named....Luck!

I absolutely hate arrogance espesially from a college athlete because they are destined to become a prima donna when they get rich and famous being a pro athlete.

So what is the deal with Cam Newton.

[doogansquest]

VVVVV THIS!! VVVVVV

However, there appears to be some minor nagging questions in the area of maturity and his mental approach to the game. He is perceived as not always an easy guy to work with, and he tends to beat to his own drummer...As good as he is, he can have some streaks on the field where he looks like he has forgotten everything he has been taught...There seems to be a nagging question here that something might be missing, but it may be hard to verbalize it...However, Leaf made all the right moves at the end of his season when he declared for the NFL draft...Unless he turns some teams off in individual interviews between now and the draft

^^^^^ ^^^^^

I Don't think you'll find anything like this on Peyton or Andrew.

But you will find stuff like that on Rodgers, Newton, and Brady. None were considered mechanically sound, or even capable of developing into a star. They also stated Manning wouldn't be able to win big games, or under pressure in general.

All the criticisms suggested Leaf was a stellar talent with lots of upside. It was later interviews that started revealing his persona.

[Jay305]

I want a QB that knows he's good without having to tell people that he is. You know, much like Manning and this kid named....Luck!

I absolutely hate arrogance espesially from a college athlete because they are destined to become a prima donna when they get rich and famous being a pro athlete.

First of all this "Prima Donna" comes from a military family as in both his parents served and he will be getting his masters now aswell.

[Jay305]

[Jay305]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMm2qGMGV8Q

[Mameluc]

I want a QB that knows he's good without having to tell people that he is. You know, much like Manning and this kid named....Luck! I absolutely hate arrogance espesially from a college athlete because they are destined to become a prima donna when they get rich and famous being a pro athlete.

why are you labeling him a prima dona?

[Jay305]

why are you labeling him a prima dona?

Not knowing any better

[Balzer40]

why are you labeling him a prima dona?

First of all, Im not labeling him that yet. From what I've seen of him he seems arrogant and that does not usually mix well with fame and fortune.

Not knowing any better

We'll see. But im not jumping on the guys bandwagon just because he had a good season. I'll stick by, nobody knew who the dude was before this season, except the people that live within close proximity of Baylor university.

[Mameluc]

First of all, Im not labeling him that yet. From what I've seen of him he seems arrogant and that does not usually mix well with fame and fortune.

We'll see. But im not jumping on the guys bandwagon just because he had a good season. I'll stick by, nobody knew who the dude was before this season, except the people that live within close proximity of Baylor university.

i wasnt implying or calling you out or something...i live in mexico so there is abosolutely no news of college kids, all ic an read in the internet is all i get. So i was surprised you were calling him like that, cause it was the first time I've heard something like that of him.

[Balzer40]

i wasnt implying or calling you out or something...i live in mexico so there is abosolutely no news of college kids, all ic an read in the internet is all i get. So i was surprised you were calling him like that, cause it was the first time I've heard something like that of him.

Understood. I didn't mean for it to come off as being a jerk.

I have seen RG3 in several interviews and he comes off as arrogant IMO. And when he proclaimed himself the Heisman winner a week before it was announced he just kind of proved it to me. Sure, he wound up winning it and good for him, but Im not sold on him being anything more than Vince Young in the NFL, except RG3 don't even have good size for a QB. He's going to have trouble at the next level IMO.

[Captain Americolt]

Understood. I didn't mean for it to come off as being a jerk.

I have seen RG3 in several interviews and he comes off as arrogant IMO. And when he proclaimed himself the Heisman winner a week before it was announced he just kind of proved it to me. Sure, he wound up winning it and good for him, but Im not sold on him being anything more than Vince Young in the NFL, except RG3 don't even have good size for a QB. He's going to have trouble at the next level IMO.

Well Drew Brees and Michael Vick seem to have no problem with size. Robert Griffin is 6 2'. Guess whos also 6 2'? Aaron Rodgers

[BmoreColt]

Understood. I didn't mean for it to come off as being a jerk.

I have seen RG3 in several interviews and he comes off as arrogant IMO. And when he proclaimed himself the Heisman winner a week before it was announced he just kind of proved it to me. Sure, he wound up winning it and good for him, but Im not sold on him being anything more than Vince Young in the NFL, except RG3 don't even have good size for a QB. He's going to have trouble at the next level IMO.

So the Colts could trade back, acquire picks and players.. and get what your calling a version of the next Steve Young.. and thats a BAD THING?

[Balzer40]

So the Colts could trade back, acquire picks and players.. and get what your calling a version of the next Steve Young.. and thats a BAD THING?

Who said anything about Steve Young?

[BmoreColt]

You know what thats my fault, I miss read what you said. But I wouldn't call RGIII Vince Young by any stretch... They both may be electric and explosive with the ball in their hands, but one of them was/is an actual passer in college, and that is RGIII. Vince did just enough to get by as a QB.

[Ramblinwreck7]

Understood. I didn't mean for it to come off as being a jerk.

I have seen RG3 in several interviews and he comes off as arrogant IMO. And when he proclaimed himself the Heisman winner a week before it was announced he just kind of proved it to me. Sure, he wound up winning it and good for him, but Im not sold on him being anything more than Vince Young in the NFL, except RG3 don't even have good size for a QB. He's going to have trouble at the next level IMO.

You need to work on this part...

[Dan]

RG3 is nothing like Ryan Leaf I dont know why this is even comparable RG3 at worst is Michael Vick at best Aaron Rodgers with track speed

At worst Michael Vick... at best, an improved version of a pretty much perfect player... I think you may be overhyping him slightly.

[Jay305]

At worst Michael Vick... at best, an improved version of a pretty much perfect player... I think you may be overhyping him slightly.

just watch him watch his footwork watch his accuracy he has the best deep ball out of any qb coming out in this draft. I'll be the first to tell you he needs to work on his intermediate stuff and throwing to the middle of the field. He likes the deep and short stuff on the sideline BUT thats nothing that cant be improved on especially if hes behind Manning

[Ramblinwreck7]

At worst Michael Vick... at best, an improved version of a pretty much perfect player... I think you may be overhyping him slightly.

You did not just call Aaron Rodgers a perfect player... that's taking it way too far.

At worst Michael Vick is also taking Robert Griffin III too far as well.

[Jay305]

At worst Michael Vick is also taking Robert Griffin III too far as well.

How so?

[Dan]

You did not just call Aaron Rodgers a perfect player... that's taking it way too far.

It was obvious hyperbole, but come on, he's incredible.

Jay305, it's because Michael Vick is really good. For RG3's worst possible outcome to be as good as Michael Vick he'd have to be incredible, rookies are always a bust risk but to say the worst possible bust for him is Michael Vick is way too much faith.

[Jay305]

I don't consider Michael Vick really good QB IMO athlete sure but not QB

[Ramblinwreck7]

I don't consider Michael Vick really good QB IMO athlete sure but not QB

Michael Vick is pretty good, the Eagles are just having a bad year right now.

[Ramblinwreck7]

It was obvious hyperbole, but come on, he's incredible.

Jay305, it's because Michael Vick is really good. For RG3's worst possible outcome to be as good as Michael Vick he'd have to be incredible, rookies are always a bust risk but to say the worst possible bust for him is Michael Vick is way too much faith.

I'm not the biggest fan of Aaron Rodgers. He acts like a baby. He calls for penalties from the refs for any kind of quarterback collision, even the totally legal ones. He just acts like a huge wimp. He has a great team around him right now, so it's not like he's doing it all on his own. I agree that he is good, but I wouldn't say incredible.

[Dan]

I'm not the biggest fan of Aaron Rodgers. He acts like a baby. He calls for penalties from the refs for any kind of quarterback collision, even the totally legal ones. He just acts like a huge wimp. He has a great team around him right now, so it's not like he's doing it all on his own. I agree that he is good, but I wouldn't say incredible.

Really? 40 TD passes in 14 games with 4300+ yards, 68% completion, QB rating of 120. That's pretty incredible.

[fvantagio]

At worst Michael Vick... at best, an improved version of a pretty much perfect player... I think you may be overhyping him slightly.

Overhyping? Calling Luck the best prospect since Elway or Peyton, 2 of the top 5 greatest Qbs ever is acceptable though right?

[Dan]

Overhyping? Calling Luck the best prospect since Elway or Peyton, 2 of the top 5 greatest Qbs ever is acceptable though right?

Name one person who has been pretty much universally touted as a brighter prospect than Andrew Luck since the 1998 draft. I'll help you out by listing the number one QB in every draft since then.

Tim Couch

Chad Pennington

Michael Vick

David Carr

Carson Palmer

Eli Manning

Alex Smith

Vince Young

JaMarcus Russell

Matt Ryan

Matt Stafford

Sam Bradford

Cam Newton

No, I don't think I'm wrong in saying he's a brighter prospect than any of those were at time of drafting.

[That Guy]

Just imagine if we draft Luck, and he turns out to be as good as Elway or Peyton. Have you noticed the trend that the COLTS drafted Elway, the COLTS drafted Peyton, and (hopefully) the COLTS draft Luck.

[TroilusBlue]

Okay, my take is that we've got Peyton for probably at the very least a few more years, and Luck wouldn't be happy sitting that long.

Anyone else see the flaw in logic anyway? This year proved that they're completely useless without their star QB, so draft another star QB instead of fixing the tons of issues? Trading the pick would be a great choice, I think. Lots of pieces, and maybe a QB later in the same draft.

Kellen Moore and Kirk Cousins pop to mind. I've seen Cousins in a lot of games since I get the games on tv all the time. I may be biased against Luck anyway because I haven't seen him assss much, and the 2 big games I've seen him play, both against Oregon, I wasn't at all impressed.

I just think drafting in the top picks is always a risk, look at all the bust QBs, and I don't believe that Luck is DEFINITELY going to be amazing, I'd have just as much faith in a Moore or Cousins learning under Manning for a few years as I would with Luck.

Name one person who has been pretty much universally touted as a brighter prospect than Andrew Luck since the 1998 draft. I'll help you out by listing the number one QB in every draft since then.

Tim Couch

Chad Pennington

Michael Vick

David Carr

Carson Palmer

Eli Manning

Alex Smith

Vince Young

JaMarcus Russell

Matt Ryan

Matt Stafford

Sam Bradford

Cam Newton

No, I don't think I'm wrong in saying he's a brighter prospect than any of those were at time of drafting.

but everyone has been wrong about sooo many of those. Why would Luck being a bit better of a prospect make him suddenly immune to the same faults that any of the number one busts have?

[Dan]

but everyone has been wrong about sooo many of those. Why would Luck being a bit better of a prospect make him suddenly immune to the same faults that any of the number one busts have?

He's not a bit better a prospect, he's one of the biggest of all time. By no means does this guarantee him success, but it certainly suggests the potential is there easily.

[ColtsBlueFL]

I pulled up the QB's selected #1 since 1970 and are listed here-

QB #1

1970 Terry Bradshaw Quarterback Louisiana Tech Pittsburgh Steelers (HOF) 4SB

1971 Jim Plunkett Quarterback Stanford New England Patriots 2SB

1975 Steve Bartkowski Quarterback California Atlanta Falcons (PB)

1983 John Elway Quarterback Stanford Baltimore Colts (traded to Denver Broncos) (HOF) 2SB

1987 Vinny Testaverde Quarterback Miami (FL) Tampa Bay Buccaneers (PB)

1989 Troy Aikman Quarterback UCLA Dallas Cowboys (HOF) 3SB

1990 Jeff George*** Quarterback Illinois Indianapolis Colts

1993 Drew Bledsoe Quarterback Washington State University New England Patriots (PB) SB backup on Pats, lost one as starter

1998 Peyton Manning Quarterback Tennessee Indianapolis Colts (PB) (2B HOF) SB

1999 Tim Couch Quarterback Kentucky Cleveland Browns

2001 Michael Vick Quarterback Virginia Tech Atlanta Falcons (PB)

2002 David Carr Quarterback Fresno State Houston Texans

2003 Carson Palmer Quarterback USC Cincinnati Bengals (PB)

2004 Eli Manning Quarterback Ole Miss San Diego Chargers (traded to the New York Giants) (PB) SB

2005 Alex Smith Quarterback Utah San Francisco 49ers (nearly ruined him David Carr style)

2007 JaMarcus Russell Quarterback LSU Oakland Raiders BUST!!

2009 Matthew Stafford Quarterback Georgia Detroit Lions too soon to tell

2010 Sam Bradford Quarterback Oklahoma St. Louis Rams too soon to tell

2011 Cam Newton Quarterback Auburn Carolina Panthers too soon to tell

QB Round 1

1st round 1st pick, 19, 3 too early to tell.

4 of 16 HOF (minumum, could go up)

10 of the 16 were/are pro bowl caliber,

1 of the remaining six still won 2 SB (Plunkett)

The rush of QB picks has been because of the change in the game recently to a passing league. But this list shows high success with a QB at #1. I feel only George and Russell to be BUST. Couch was mediocre and got Carr'd by the new Browns horrible O-line before Carr suffered the Texans disaster growth curve. Alex Smith almost suffered the Couch/Carr syndrome. Only Norv Turner (2006) and Jim Harbaugh rescued his confidence.

Interesting is the two Stanford QB's each have won 2 SB's. One a Pro Bowler and HOF. The other is the only eligible QB with 2 SB wins not in the HOF. But Plunkett did usher in wide open pro style passing into the Pac 8, and it continues to this day.

Looks like a lot of attention is paid by teams when one is going QB at #1, and the level of success in return was higher than I thought.

[ColtsBlueFL]

Name one person who has been pretty much universally touted as a brighter prospect than Andrew Luck since the 1998 draft. I'll help you out by listing the number one QB in every draft since then.

Tim Couch

Chad Pennington

Michael Vick

David Carr

Carson Palmer

Eli Manning

Alex Smith

Vince Young

JaMarcus Russell

Matt Ryan

Matt Stafford

Sam Bradford

Cam Newton

No, I don't think I'm wrong in saying he's a brighter prospect than any of those were at time of drafting.

I agree with Luck being brighter prospect than the above. However, Pennington went Rd 1 #18 and Matty Ice was Rd. 1 3rd overall pick. The others were indeed #1. {I've been doing some research on QB's, rounds and success. My first post from my digging is above}

[jskinnz]

I want a QB that knows he's good without having to tell people that he is. You know, much like Manning and this kid named....Luck!

I absolutely hate arrogance espesially from a college athlete because they are destined to become a prima donna when they get rich and famous being a pro athlete.

Did you see his Heisman acceptance speech? He is absolutely the high character guy you want leading your team.

[Dan]

I agree with Luck being brighter prospect than the above. However, Pennington went Rd 1 #18 and Matty Ice was Rd. 1 3rd overall pick. The others were indeed #1. {I've been doing some research on QB's, rounds and success. My first post from my digging is above}

Yeahh I was just pointing out that I didn't think I was overhyping him by saying he was the biggest prospect since Peyton! Your findings are very interesting though - even though it's too soon to tell, Stafford has been under centre for the dramatic turn away from an 0-16 team so clearly has talent, Bradford is doing okay with an awful team around him and Newton has been very very good considering how week his team is, so none of the three are looking like busts.