Pagano's future?

[Dark Superman]

I don't like what I have seen from Pagano this season.We seem unprepared each week. Poor gameplans, failing to make adjustments, putting the wrong players in the game at the wrong time.Also I think the assistant coaches have been bad, but since Pagano is the Head Coach, he oversees all assistants, and ultimately is responsible, and in the end, he should be held accountable.But I will give Pagano credit for getting us this far. To me, the true test for Pagano will come during the playoffs.With the amount of talent this years team has, the Colts should be able to compete with anyone.If we can squeeze out a few wins great! Give the credit to Chuck where it is due.But I feel an embarrassing defeat should be not be well tolerated either.I like Pagano, and hope he does well. I really do.But Coach Pagano has had all the excuses this year for his team and players underachieving...And a large number of posters on this board have all the excuses for Coach Pagano

We need to put together strong drives and come out of the gate swinging to make a statement. If we fall behind early In Denver or New England, it's adios.

[jvan1973]

TY didn't start until about halfway through his rookie year, Ballard was behind Donald Brown i believe. Mewhort was supposed to be a backup to Donald Thomas until he got injured for the year. I'll give you Harrison. Moncrief took 3 months before the coaching staff got their head out of their rear and decided to start him. Kerr and Newsome are still getting limited playing time, which is crap. All of these guys except Harrison have been victims of Pagano's favoritism game toward the Veterans.

do you not understand that rookies may not be ready to play week one? I'm guessing that was the case with Dante. Reggie certainly didn't get all the snaps his first year. This premise that the staff is playing guys out of some sort of loyalty is absurd. Their jobs are on the line. They play the guys they think give them the best opportunity to win. Grigson and pagano have brought all of these guys in. They are all "their" guys.

[jskinnz]

TY didn't start until about halfway through his rookie year, Ballard was behind Donald Brown i believe. Mewhort was supposed to be a backup to Donald Thomas until he got injured for the year. I'll give you Harrison. Moncrief took 3 months before the coaching staff got their head out of their rear and decided to start him. Kerr and Newsome are still getting limited playing time, which is crap. All of these guys except Harrison have been victims of Pagano's favoritism game toward the Veterans.

Complete and total bovine excrement.

[Yoshinator]

And who would you have replace him?

I can answer this, Jim Harbaugh.

[colts8718]

So how many other mediocre coaches have made the playoffs in their first three years? Just out of curiosity how many head coaches have started their careers out 32-9 with a totally rebuilt team? Get real.

If where going to get real do you think he would be 32-9 without Andrew luck 

[Dark Superman]

I can answer this, Jim Harbaugh.

No thank you.

[jskinnz]

We need to put together strong drives and come out of the gate swinging to make a statement. If we fall behind early In Denver or New England, it's adios.

Are you reading straight from the all cliche handbook?

And what statement do you want them to make?

Can only the offense make amaze this statement or can the defense do it as well?

[Yoshinator]

do you not understand that rookies may not be ready to play week one? I'm guessing that was the case with Dante. Reggie certainly didn't get all the snaps his first year. This premise that the staff is playing guys out of some sort of loyalty is absurd. Their jobs are on the line. They play the guys they think give them the best opportunity to win. Grigson and pagano have brought all of these guys in. They are all "their" guys.

What a joke. Our rookies have by far been the best players on the team, thanks to Grigson's drafts. They have been more than ready. All of the guys I mentioned have been more than ready and what's worse is that we are just in year 3 of rebuilding, so we should be trying to build for the future with our rookies that have overperformed instead of using a bunch of average veterans. The loyalty is obviously there with certain guys as you can see it with Satele, Trent Richardson, Johnathan Harrison, and plenty of other below average players that Pagano doesn't want or didn't want to take out. It hurts the team as a whole. 

[Yoshinator]

Complete and total bovine excrement.

You can suck up to Pagano all you want, but it doesn't make it any less fact.

[Yoshinator]

No thank you.

Ok, I guess making 3 NFC Championships and a Super Bowl in 3 years means nothing. Lets be a one and done playoff team though as long as the players love Pagano. We'll lose, but we'll all be happy.

[tfunky14]

Ok, I guess making 3 NFC Championships and a Super Bowl in 3 years means nothing. Lets be a one and done playoff team though as long as the players love Pagano. We'll lose, but we'll all be happy.

Harbaugh is a terrible coach, no way...

[Superman]

TY didn't start until about halfway through his rookie year, Ballard was behind Donald Brown i believe. Mewhort was supposed to be a backup to Donald Thomas until he got injured for the year. I'll give you Harrison. Moncrief took 3 months before the coaching staff got their head out of their rear and decided to start him. Kerr and Newsome are still getting limited playing time, which is crap. All of these guys except Harrison have been victims of Pagano's favoritism game toward the Veterans.

So much of this post is flawed, if not absolutely false. First of all, rookies are generally NOT thrown on the field with no limitations from Day 1. This is typical of every team, with exception for highly capable young players. So you're really not saying anything.

And I don't understand how "he doesn't play rookies!" is a basis for complaint against a head coach with a winning record.

On to some facts... Hilton played 75 snaps as early as the GB game, in addition to serving as a return man. He played about 70% of the offensive snaps that year.

Ballard played nearly 300 more snaps than Brown.

Mewhort is starting. Being nitpicky about the reason why doesn't change the fact that he's been first team forever, ahead of some vets like Louis who have been on the roster all year.

Moncrief is one of the youngest and most raw receivers in the league. He's being asked to convert from an SEC offense that asked him to run four routes from one spot on the field, to playing several spots and running a full route tree. Why is bringing him on gradually a bad thing? The Eagles have done the same thing with Matthews, and he's far more refined than Moncrief.

Kerr was thrust into the fire from jump. He's been playing a reduced role because he started playing sloppy football.

Newsome is another raw player, one who really struggles containing the run, and he's in a time share with a couple of vets who quite frankly are better than he is. And I'm a Newsome fan. And all that said, he gets plenty of playing time when he's playing well.

This favoritism angle is as flimsy as wet toilet paper.

[HtownColt]

Ok, I guess making 3 NFC Championships and a Super Bowl in 3 years means nothing. Lets be a one and done playoff team though as long as the players love Pagano. We'll lose, but we'll all be happy.

Whole organization quit on him for a reason

[Yoshinator]

So much of this post is flawed, if not absolutely false. First of all, rookies are generally NOT thrown on the field with no limitations from Day 1. This is typical of every team, with exception for highly capable young players. So you're really not saying anything.

And I don't understand how "he doesn't play rookies!" is a basis for complaint against a head coach with a winning record.

On to some facts... Hilton played 75 snaps as early as the GB game, in addition to serving as a return man. He played about 70% of the offensive snaps that year.

Ballard played nearly 300 more snaps than Brown.

Mewhort is starting. Being nitpicky about the reason why doesn't change the fact that he's been first team forever, ahead of some vets like Louis who have been on the roster all year.

Moncrief is one of the youngest and most raw receivers in the league. He's being asked to convert from an SEC offense that asked him to run four routes from one spot on the field, to playing several spots and running a full route tree. Why is bringing him on gradually a bad thing? The Eagles have done the same thing with Matthews, and he's far more refined than Moncrief.

Kerr was thrust into the fire from jump. He's been playing a reduced role because he started playing sloppy football.

Newsome is another raw player, one who really struggles containing the run, and he's in a time share with a couple of vets who quite frankly are better than he is. And I'm a Newsome fan. And all that said, he gets plenty of playing time when he's playing well.

This favoritism angle is as flimsy as wet toilet paper.

My point is that if you're better than the person ahead of you, you should start. Unless you don't know the playbook or something there is really no excuses. We are also rebuilding, so if these guys are better than the Veterans, it's a must for them to start and continue to develop. Sitting them only hurts the teams and stunts the rookies growth.

[Cynjin]

You can suck up to Pagano all you want, but it doesn't make it any less fact.

 

Actually, the favoritism is just your opinion, not fact.

[Yoshinator]

Harbaugh is a terrible coach, no way...

I bet Andrew Luck would Disagree.

[Yoshinator]

Actually, the favoritism is just your opinion, not fact.

TY didn't start until about halfway through his rookie year, Ballard was behind Donald Brown i believe. Mewhort was supposed to be a backup to Donald Thomas until he got injured for the year. I'll give you Harrison. Moncrief took 3 months before the coaching staff got their head out of their rear and decided to start him. Kerr and Newsome are still getting limited playing time, which is crap. All of these guys except Harrison have been victims of Pagano's favoritism game toward the Veterans.

 

Tell me where any of this is opinion and not fact.

[Yoshinator]

Whole organization quit on him for a reason

Maybe, but he gets the job done. We'll see on Pagano, but I don't think he can outsmart Belicheck or Fox.

[BOTT]

I don't like what I have seen from Pagano this season.We seem unprepared each week. Poor gameplans, failing to make adjustments, putting the wrong players in the game at the wrong time.Also I think the assistant coaches have been bad, but since Pagano is the Head Coach, he oversees all assistants, and ultimately is responsible, and in the end, he should be held accountable.But I will give Pagano credit for getting us this far. To me, the true test for Pagano will come during the playoffs.With the amount of talent this years team has, the Colts should be able to compete with anyone.If we can squeeze out a few wins great! Give the credit to Chuck where it is due.But I feel an embarrassing defeat should be not be well tolerated either.I like Pagano, and hope he does well. I really do.But Coach Pagano has had all the excuses this year for his team and players underachieving...And a large number of posters on this board have all the excuses for Coach Pagano

With the amount of talent this team has??? I think this is what get some fans into trouble. This team doesn't really have the talent to compete with the very best teams.

[Cynjin]

TY didn't start until about halfway through his rookie year, Ballard was behind Donald Brown i believe. Mewhort was supposed to be a backup to Donald Thomas until he got injured for the year. I'll give you Harrison. Moncrief took 3 months before the coaching staff got their head out of their rear and decided to start him. Kerr and Newsome are still getting limited playing time, which is crap. All of these guys except Harrison have been victims of Pagano's favoritism game toward the Veterans.

 

Tell me where any of this is opinion and not fact.

 

I thought it was fairly evident in my post, however I have bolded the parts that are opinion and not fact.  I hope this helps.

[jvan1973]

What a joke. Our rookies have by far been the best players on the team, thanks to Grigson's drafts. They have been more than ready. All of the guys I mentioned have been more than ready and what's worse is that we are just in year 3 of rebuilding, so we should be trying to build for the future with our rookies that have overperformed instead of using a bunch of average veterans. The loyalty is obviously there with certain guys as you can see it with Satele, Trent Richardson, Johnathan Harrison, and plenty of other below average players that Pagano doesn't want or didn't want to take out. It hurts the team as a whole.

So you've been to practices, film study, position meetings? You know their knowledge of the playbook and their responsibilities on each and every play called? Well why didn't you say so in the first place.

Ps their is more to being ready to play than just physical ability.

[Yoshinator]

I thought it was fairly evident in my post, however I have bolded the parts that are opinion and not fact.  I hope this helps.

Ok, so the important parts are fact that prove my point. Glad to know that.

[Cynjin]

Ok, so the important parts are fact that prove my point. Glad to know that.

 

Uh, not really.  You actually do not have much of a point at all, not unless you are some sort of talent evaluator guru that the teams in the NFL have been waiting for.

[Yoshinator]

So you've been to practices, film study, position meetings? You know their knowledge of the playbook and their responsibilities on each and every play called? Well why didn't you say so in the first place.

Ps their is more to being ready to play than just physical ability.

So you think Satele, Richardson and Harrison should or should of been starting? Or are you to scared to make an opinion one way or another so you just agree with the Coaches to "play it safe". It doesn't take a Chuck Pagano to see he's making bad decisions. It doesn't take even someone as smart as me or you to know that. Even casual Colts fans realize there is something wrong when Trent can't run the ball and the O-Line can't protect Luck.

[Superman]

My point is that if you're better than the person ahead of you, you should start. Unless you don't know the playbook or something there is really no excuses. We are also rebuilding, so if these guys are better than the Veterans, it's a must for them to start and continue to develop. Sitting them only hurts the teams and stunts the rookies growth.

That's a fair point. Your previous diatribe, one that you've repeated several times lately, just isn't accurate.

As for the coach's decisions on who plays, and when, and how much, well, we can argue about that until the cows come home. I don't think guys like Newsome and Moncrief are ready to play a full role yet, because of playbook issues and limitations as players. You might disagree. But we can't know for sure because we're not in the facility. However, doesn't it seem like a reasonable conclusion, given how the staff has been using them? And is it really that hard to believe that third and fifth round guys need some time to develop?

Also, in the four games we lost, having any of those young guys on the field more wasn't likely to change the outcome, so I disagree with the idea that it's hurt the team in the present. And I think it's critical for their development that they're brought on gradually, so I don't think it's hurting the team in the long term. Meanwhile, we have three playoff appearances in a row, as a team that's still plugging holes with former UDFAs and CFL players.

[jvan1973]

So you think Satele, Richardson and Harrison should or should of been starting? Or are you to scared to make an opinion one way or another so you just agree with the Coaches to "play it safe". It doesn't take a Chuck Pagano to see he's making bad decisions. It doesn't take even someone as smart as me or you to know that. Even casual Colts fans realize there is something wrong when Trent can't run the ball and the O-Line can't protect Luck.

no, I'm saying i don't have all of the necessary information to say one way or the other. Harrison didn't play poorly yesterday and its not like aq was headed to a pro bowl

[Yoshinator]

Uh, not really.  You actually do not have much of a point at all, not unless you are some sort of talent evaluator guru that the teams in the NFL have been waiting for.

I've proven my point and anyone that's intelligent has picked it up by now. The amount of times Pagano gets Coddled and protected is unbelievable on this site. People like you are like the Redskins fans who won't admit RGIII is a problem. Guess you'll learn the hard way. Unfortunately, as a Colt fan, I'll have to suffer and so will other fans and more importantly, the team.

[Yoshinator]

That's a fair point. Your previous diatribe, one that you've repeated several times lately, just isn't accurate.

As for the coach's decisions on who plays, and when, and how much, well, we can argue about that until the cows come home. I don't think guys like Newsome and Moncrief are ready to play a full role yet, because of playbook issues and limitations as players. You might disagree. But we can't know for sure because we're not in the facility. However, doesn't it seem like a reasonable conclusion, given how the staff has been using them? And is it really that hard to believe that third and fifth round guys need some time to develop?

Also, in the four games we lost, having any of those young guys on the field more wasn't likely to change the outcome, so I disagree with the idea that it's hurt the team in the present. And I think it's critical for their development that they're brought on gradually, so I don't think it's hurting the team in the long term. Meanwhile, we have three playoff appearances in a row, as a team that's still plugging holes with former UDFAs and CFL players.

I'll give you that. The only thing I can say is that since we were so short on draft picks this year, that it would be a worthwhile gamble to play Moncrief and Newsome, assuming of course, they knew the playbook.

[tfunky14]

Maybe, but he gets the job done. We'll see on Pagano, but I don't think he can outsmart Belicheck or Fox.

Can't get the job done when your players give up...Don't want him in Colts blue for sure.

[Gavin]

That's a fair point. Your previous diatribe, one that you've repeated several times lately, just isn't accurate.

As for the coach's decisions on who plays, and when, and how much, well, we can argue about that until the cows come home. I don't think guys like Newsome and Moncrief are ready to play a full role yet, because of playbook issues and limitations as players. You might disagree. But we can't know for sure because we're not in the facility. However, doesn't it seem like a reasonable conclusion, given how the staff has been using them? And is it really that hard to believe that third and fifth round guys need some time to develop?

Also, in the four games we lost, having any of those young guys on the field more wasn't likely to change the outcome, so I disagree with the idea that it's hurt the team in the present. And I think it's critical for their development that they're brought on gradually, so I don't think it's hurting the team in the long term. Meanwhile, we have three playoff appearances in a row, as a team that's still plugging holes with former UDFAs and CFL players.

"However, doesn't it seem like a reasonable conclusion, given how the staff has been using them?"

 

 

Most important sentence in my opinion in this whole thread. Great post per the usual. If a person wants to see why a player does not start then just watch and see how they are used when they do play, Can they do all that the coach is asking them to do? If the coach is only asking them to do so much then why wont he ask them to do more? Does said player do good when he is asked to do more (such as set the edge)

[Cynjin]

I've proven my point and anyone that's intelligent has picked it up by now. The amount of times Pagano gets Coddled and protected is unbelievable on this site. People like you are like the Redskins fans who won't admit RGIII is a problem. Guess you'll learn the hard way. Unfortunately, as a Colt fan, I'll have to suffer and so will other fans and more importantly, the team.

 

Lol, you haven't proven anything.  As far as the Redskins go, their problems are a lot more than RGIII.  As other posters have tried to point out you do not have anywhere near enough information to determine why the Oline or any other part of the Colts team is doing or not doing as well as they should be.

[tfunky14]

I've proven my point and anyone that's intelligent has picked it up by now. The amount of times Pagano gets Coddled and protected is unbelievable on this site. People like you are like the Redskins fans who won't admit RGIII is a problem. Guess you'll learn the hard way. Unfortunately, as a Colt fan, I'll have to suffer and so will other fans and more importantly, the team.

Suffer what?

[Yoshinator]

Lol, you haven't proven anything.  As far as the Redskins go, their problems are a lot more than RGIII.  As other posters have tried to point out you do not have anywhere near enough information to determine why the Oline or any other part of the Colts team is doing or not doing as well as they should be.

I guess I just expect competence from the head coach, that's all. That seems to be too much to ask on these boards though as Pagano is seen as some great coach.

[Superman]

I'll give you that. The only thing I can say is that since we were so short on draft picks this year, that it would be a worthwhile gamble to play Moncrief and Newsome, assuming of course, they knew the playbook.

And they HAVE played. Been quite promising, but also have shown some issues. There's a reason Moncrief was the 14th receiver taken. There's a reason Newsome was a fifth rounder. There's a reason Kerr was undrafted.

I'm a fan of all those guys, unabashedly. But you don't just throw them on the field and let them fumble around.

Also, to your last line, some of us look at the gradual progression with young players and assume that they need time to learn the playbook and show their readiness in practice. Others look at that gradual progression and despite the fact that we have limited information, assume the coaching staff is wrong and stupid for not doing it our way, and call for them to be fired.

[Yoshinator]

Suffer what?

Underachieving and not getting as far as we could because we are starting the right players and using this team to it's full potential. It's going to be a regular one and done thing in the playoffs with Pagano unless he changes soon. We finally have a defense as well, but it doesn't even matter so much because we can't beat New England, Denver gives us fits, and we have trouble against any team that will make the playoffs. That comes down to game planning and Pagano outsmarting the other team's coach, which I don't have faith he can do.

[Superman]

I've proven my point and anyone that's intelligent has picked it up by now. The amount of times Pagano gets Coddled and protected is unbelievable on this site. People like you are like the Redskins fans who won't admit RGIII is a problem. Guess you'll learn the hard way. Unfortunately, as a Colt fan, I'll have to suffer and so will other fans and more importantly, the team.

You haven't proven your point at all. Most of your argument has been based on factually inaccurate information, flawed assumptions, and specious reasoning.

[Cynjin]

I guess I just expect competence from the head coach, that's all. That seems to be too much to ask on these boards though as Pagano is seen as some great coach.

 

Pagano may be a great coach at the NFL level, he may be a poor coach at the NFL level or somewhere in between, I do not know.  However I do know that you are in no way qualified to make that determination.

[Yoshinator]

And they HAVE played. Been quite promising, but also have shown some issues. There's a reason Moncrief was the 14th receiver taken. There's a reason Newsome was a fifth rounder. There's a reason Kerr was undrafted.

I'm a fan of all those guys, unabashedly. But you don't just throw them on the field and let them fumble around.

Also, to your last line, some of us look at the gradual progression with young players and assume that they need time to learn the playbook and show their readiness in practice. Others look at that gradual progression and despite the fact that we have limited information, assume the coaching staff is wrong and stupid for not doing it our way, and call for them to be fired.

I understand. If I see a rookie that has a solid training camp or has a solid game, then I want to give him another chance. That's just me and I'm a bit impatient, but IMO, it's the best way to see if a rookie is ready and if not, bench him. only reason I had a problem with Moncrief and Newsome, they got reduced playing time after solid performances which didn't make sense (though now they are getting more time).

[Yoshinator]

Pagano may be a great coach at the NFL level, he may be a poor coach at the NFL level or somewhere in between, I do not know.  However I do know that you are in no way qualified to make that determination.

Maybe not, but I have the right to voice my opinion, and at least I have evidence of a lot of things he has done that have been wrong and have hurt the team. The majority of people supporting Pagano have no facts on why he's good. they just blurt out his record or say I'm wrong.

[Happy2BeHere]

Oh my gosh! You NAYSAYERS need to spend time somewhere else...So many good posts on here.

 

Is Chuck Pagano the BEST COACH EVER? No....is he the WORST COACH EVER? No!

 

Someone on here says Chuck is ruining this team with "his loyalty". Whoa WHOA!! Since when is Loyalty a NEGATIVE thing? Seriously come on. Loyalty is one of the best features of ANY human being PERIOD! To me...That's what most of you naysayers lack...LOYALTY.

 

I guarantee you...ABSOLUTELY guarantee you there are TONS of situations in the NFL where the "unpopular" decision was made out of "loyalty" "stupidity" "ignorance" "proof" "best educated decisions" or any other number of things you want to pick there where it turned out to be one of the best decisions for the team down the road. Not everything will work out to be perfect or correct...but for hell sakes people not EVERYTHING will turn out to be the WRONG choice either!

 

I'm willing to support THE TEAM (which includes Coach Pagano) because you know why? We are definitely CONTENDERS! We have ever since Luck AND Pagano AND TY Hilton....AND Dwayne Allen....AND Trent Richardson (Yes, TRENT the underperforming RB)...we still find ways to win even when we shoot ourself in the foot...to me that's what makes a team so much more dangerous than any other team. 

 

Do I hope we get more consistent? Yes. Do I hope we reduce the turnovers? Yes. Do I want Chuck fired? No. Do I want Luck benched because he fumbles the ball and throws picks? No.

 

Thank goodness I have a team I've been a fan of for MANY years...MANY MANY years that I've enjoyed double digit win seasons and MANY playoff appearances with MANY opportunities to win in the playoffs and get to the big game! I'll continue to take that ANY DAY...because the "excitement" of getting there is what keeps the game so much fun.