Lions players raving about Caldwell

[Valpo2004]

He is doing a great job but at this point Arians will get COY if the cards win the West. He will have to go the rest of the way with his back up QB who has already played several games when Palmer injured his shoulder. Of course, Arians was a former Colts coach too so I guess there is something to be said for former Colts coaches doing well.

 

I think a lot is going to depend on how they do now that Palmer is gone for the season.  

 

Also everyone knew that the Lions had talent they just had no discipline.  So that may hurt Caldwell somewhat.  

[BOTT]

Doesn't change the fact that he wasn't a good coach.

Never said he was, but you stated he was out-coached in the SB.

[House]

I don't think Caldwell is a good coach. Come at me Internet.

[SilentHill]

Never said he was, but you stated he was out-coached in the SB.

 

He was, and by that I meant, how much better Sean Peyton was, we were not ready for anything he called.

[Superman]

Never said he was, but you stated he was out-coached in the SB.

 

How about some defensive adjustments? How about playing your DBs a little closer to the line of scrimmage, rather than giving 8 yard cushions all game long? 

[BOTT]

How about some defensive adjustments? How about playing your DBs a little closer to the line of scrimmage, rather than giving 8 yard cushions all game long?

Meh, I had been questioning that for years....long before Caldwell was named HC.

[Superman]

Meh, I had been questioning that for years....long before Caldwell was named HC.

 

So? Does that mean that he deserves no blame for that questionable gameplan in the biggest game of the year?

 

And by the way, this is something that the defense didn't do most of that season. Coyer changed a lot of stuff for the better, but the defense got super conservative in the Super Bowl, at the absolute wrong time.

[BOTT]

So? Does that mean that he deserves no blame for that questionable gameplan in the biggest game of the year?

 

And by the way, this is something that the defense didn't do most of that season. Coyer changed a lot of stuff for the better, but the defense got super conservative in the Super Bowl, at the absolute wrong time.

Sure, but it's not something I reasonably expected to happen...that's almost like asking the sun to be blue. And if they did, they probably would have just beaten Hayden deep...which was one of his specialties and a near certainty with the colts best pass rusher out in the 2nd half. Colts just got outplayed with a lil bad luck thrown in.

[Superman]

Sure, but it's not something I reasonably expected to happen...that's almost like asking the sun to be blue. And if they did, they probably would have just beaten Hayden deep...which was one of his specialties and a near certainty with the colts best pass rusher out in the 2nd half. Colts just got outplayed with a lil bad luck thrown in.

 

The defensive gameplan in the Super Bowl was different than any defensive gameplan we used all season long. I don't know why one should expect us to revert back to a super vanilla zone coverage against one of the best QBs in the league, in the biggest game of the year. 

 

And ironically, that stupid gameplan made it easier for the Saints to nullify our pass rush. Freeney wasn't out in the second half, by the way. He was just a nonfactor, partly because of his ankle, but mostly because of the stupid gameplan, just like the rest of our pass rush. You can't just give receivers underneath releases and expect to get stops.

 

The Colts did get outplayed, but it didn't help that the defensive scheme was atrocious.

 

You asked for specific examples of how Caldwell got outcoached in the Super Bowl. You can't just ignore the biggest one.

[sweetsurrender]

So? Does that mean that he deserves no blame for that questionable gameplan in the biggest game of the year?

 

And by the way, this is something that the defense didn't do most of that season. Coyer changed a lot of stuff for the better, but the defense got super conservative in the Super Bowl, at the absolute wrong time.

I think it was the bend don't break mentality. Give them the underneath to avoid the big play. And it did work really but Freeney being a non-factor in the second half hurt the most and of course the onside kick which was gutsy and brilliant by Payton. And even with all of that our O had the ball at the end to go tie it up and then Manning blew it. I really hated hated the offensive plan in that game more than the defensive.

[Superman]

I think it was the bend don't break mentality. Give them the underneath to avoid the big play. And it did work really but Freeney being a non-factor in the second half hurt the most and of course the onside kick which was gutsy and brilliant by Payton. And even with all of that our O had the ball at the end to go tie it up and then Manning blew it. I really hated hated the offensive plan in that game more than the defensive.

 

It didn't work, not even remotely.

 

It killed any chance of getting to the QB, or even affecting him. And from the second quarter on, they outscored the Colts 31-7. Starting with the final drive of the second quarter, their offense went FG, TD, FG, TD. No stops on defense. "Bend but don't break" implies that you don't let them score every time they touch the ball. Our defense was "bend and bend and bend, and eventually break, anyway." It's the same thing we did practically all of 2011, and we see how that went.

[sweetsurrender]

It didn't work, not even remotely.

 

It killed any chance of getting to the QB, or even affecting him. And from the second quarter on, they outscored the Colts 31-7. Starting with the final drive of the second quarter, their offense went FG, TD, FG, TD. No stops on defense. "Bend but don't break" implies that you don't let them score every time they touch the ball. Our defense was "bend and bend and bend, and eventually break, anyway." It's the same thing we did practically all of 2011, and we see how that went.

2 Fgs and 2 Tds is not break. If they let up four Tds sure but still it was a game in the 4th even after the onsides kick. I do think we squandered the early lead offensively but not going for it more when up 10. I was surprised by some of the offensive play calling more than the defense. I mean we were not going to shut out the Saints that year. Brees was having a great year and he had some great weapons. I really thought the game overall was managed well but the O was too conservative and of course some lousy luck too.

[Superman]

2 Fgs and 2 Tds is not break. If they let up four Tds sure but still it was a game in the 4th even after the onsides kick. I do think we squandered the early lead offensively but not going for it more when up 10. I was surprised by some of the offensive play calling more than the defense. I mean we were not going to shut out the Saints that year. Brees was having a great year and he had some great weapons. I really thought the game overall was managed well but the O was too conservative and of course some lousy luck too.

 

Two FG and 2 TDs in four possessions is the very definition of breaking. I don't know if you understood or not, but those are the only four offensive possessions the Saints had, from the FG at the end of the second half to the end of the game. That's it. And they scored on every one of them. You can't give up 5 points per possession in the NFL. The defense got its butt kicked.

 

Yes, Brees was really good, but he completed over 80% of his passes, never got touched in the second half, and hardly even threw a contested pass. No one is suggesting that we were going to shut them out, but we didn't have to give them scores on every possession. The defensive gameplan was terrible.

[sweetsurrender]

Two FG and 2 TDs in four possessions is the very definition of breaking. I don't know if you understood or not, but those are the only four offensive possessions the Saints had, from the FG at the end of the second half to the end of the game. That's it. And they scored on every one of them. You can't give up 5 points per possession in the NFL. The defense got its butt kicked.

 

Yes, Brees was really good, but he completed over 80% of his passes, never got touched in the second half, and hardly even threw a contested pass. No one is suggesting that we were going to shut them out, but we didn't have to give them scores on every possession. The defensive gameplan was terrible.

Sure. Not good in the second half but I don't know if man up or blitzing would have been better. Saints may have scored quicker and all Tds too....

 

Also 17 points from our Offense was not going to get it done...

[Superman]

Sure. Not good in the second half but I don't know if man up or blitzing would have been better. Saints may have scored quicker and all Tds too....

 

Also 17 points from our Offense was not going to get it done...

 

Don't need to man up or blitz. Cover 2 with deep cushions is a watered down version of an already watered down defensive approach. Just stop playing so far off prior to the snap, and you can disrupt the timing of the receivers, not giving them free releases off the line.

[sweetsurrender]

Don't need to man up or blitz. Cover 2 with deep cushions is a watered down version of an already watered down defensive approach. Just stop playing so far off prior to the snap, and you can disrupt the timing of the receivers, not giving them free releases off the line.

I think our guys would have got beat off the line vs the Saints WRs and TEs.

[southwest1]

Jim Caldwell is flat out a good coach. I read some of the post on the gaffes , and we're they bad, of course. However, you could do the same thing with Harbaugh , or other coaches. They all make blunders. Caldwell was the scapegoat for 2009, but the real culprits were Irsay and Polian, who pulled the plug on the perfect season, and the team lost its swagger and momentum, much like the A's did after they traded Cespedis this year.

You should be thankful to him for the 2-14 year because the Colts had a horrible team that year without Manning , but you got Luck , literally. Any coach would have struggled with that team.

Then he comes to Baltimore, after we suffered a brutal AFCCG loss to the Patriots the previous year, then replaced goofball Cam Cameron with Jim mid-season , and we win it all in 2012. Without Caldwell, trust me, we would have won nothing.

Now he goes to Detroit, and look at the results. I think Jim Caldwell can coach.

That's what still shocks me TOC...How Jim fell into the perfect situation in Maryland  at just the right time. I'm happy for the guy, but seriously the Lions turnaround isn't all that miraculous to me. It would be more dumbfounding if he didn't really. It's not like he transformed the Raiders or the Browns okay. 

 

Having said all that Caldwell does deserve credit by virtue of just being in Detroit I guess as they continue to win. Okay, in the interest of fairness, Jim did help QB Matthew Stafford improve his accuracy, throwing motion, & pass completion percentage. 

[LordHelpOurColts]

meh

[southwest1]

Next to his predecessor Jim Schwartz, almost anybody else would look like a dramatic improvement. Any .that gets carried off the field when he won a regular season game vs the SB is so childish & stupid to me it's not even funny.    :slaphead: 

 

Edited November 15, 2014 by Nadine
skirting the filter

[MJD42]

Two FG and 2 TDs in four possessions is the very definition of breaking. I don't know if you understood or not, but those are the only four offensive possessions the Saints had, from the FG at the end of the second half to the end of the game. That's it. And they scored on every one of them. You can't give up 5 points per possession in the NFL. The defense got its butt kicked.

 

Yes, Brees was really good, but he completed over 80% of his passes, never got touched in the second half, and hardly even threw a contested pass. No one is suggesting that we were going to shut them out, but we didn't have to give them scores on every possession. The defensive gameplan was terrible.

How about the Colts possessions? Only 7 points after getting up early 10-0 ....

 

I remember thinking when they got early that the game was going to be a blow out or at the very least they could put up a lot of points... stunning what happened./

 

The defense only surrendered 24 and 7 of that came on the short field after the on-sides kick. Hard to ask them to do more than that vs that offense and Freeney only being effective for one half. They could not press up with no pass rush.

 

TOP was equal too, just not enough scoring.

[BOTT]

The defensive gameplan in the Super Bowl was different than any defensive gameplan we used all season long. I don't know why one should expect us to revert back to a super vanilla zone coverage against one of the best QBs in the league, in the biggest game of the year. 

 

And ironically, that stupid gameplan made it easier for the Saints to nullify our pass rush. Freeney wasn't out in the second half, by the way. He was just a nonfactor, partly because of his ankle, but mostly because of the stupid gameplan, just like the rest of our pass rush. You can't just give receivers underneath releases and expect to get stops.

 

The Colts did get outplayed, but it didn't help that the defensive scheme was atrocious.

 

You asked for specific examples of how Caldwell got outcoached in the Super Bowl. You can't just ignore the biggest one.

Ok, even if I didn't ignore it it's hardly a compelling argument. Having average at best corners play tighter coverage with a hobbled Freeney vs a high powered offense doesn't convince me of an altered outcome.

[The Old Crow]

That's what still shocks me TOC...How Jim fell into the perfect situation in Maryland at just the right time. I'm happy for the guy, but seriously the Lions turnaround isn't all that miraculous to me. It would be more dumbfounding if he didn't really. It's not like he transformed the Raiders or the Browns okay.

Having said all that Caldwell does deserve credit by virtue of just being in Detroit I guess as they continue to win. Okay, in the interest of fairness, Jim did help QB Matthew Stafford improve his accuracy, throwing motion, & pass completion percentage.

Southwest, the guy does have two Super Bowl rings as an assistant, and a pretty good record as HC . I understand you guys being angry about the 2009 Super Bowl. I still haven't gotten over Super Bowl 3. In Baltimore, Rosenbloom blamed Shula, he left, and won two Super Bowls in Miami. The 2-14 season could have happened to any coach once Manning got injured, but my opinion is the 2009 Super Bowl was lost to Colts when they didn't go for the undefeated season. That team had swagger, and teams were afraid of them until after the last two regular season losses . No one was afraid of the 16-0 Patriots, as everyone in the NFL knew they were beaten in Baltimore, then given the game on a bad call, then were scared by the Giants in the regular season, before they blew the Super Bowl. That 2009 Colts team was excellent, but so were the 13-1 1968 Colts. Sometimes things just happen.

[Superman]

How about the Colts possessions? Only 7 points after getting up early 10-0 ....

 

I remember thinking when they got early that the game was going to be a blow out or at the very least they could put up a lot of points... stunning what happened./

 

The defense only surrendered 24 and 7 of that came on the short field after the on-sides kick. Hard to ask them to do more than that vs that offense and Freeney only being effective for one half. They could not press up with no pass rush.

 

TOP was equal too, just not enough scoring.

 

?

 

The defensive gameplan was terrible. You can grade the defensive effort however you wish, but the gameplan was terrible. 

[Superman]

Southwest, the guy does have two Super Bowl rings as an assistant, and a pretty good record as HC . I understand you guys being angry about the 2009 Super Bowl. I still haven't gotten over Super Bowl 3. In Baltimore, Rosenbloom blamed Shula, he left, and won two Super Bowls in Miami. The 2-14 season could have happened to any coach once Manning got injured, but my opinion is the 2009 Super Bowl was lost to Colts when they didn't go for the undefeated season. That team had swagger, and teams were afraid of them until after the last two regular season losses . No one was afraid of the 16-0 Patriots, as everyone in the NFL knew they were beaten in Baltimore, then given the game on a bad call, then were scared by the Giants in the regular season, before they blew the Super Bowl. That 2009 Colts team was excellent, but so were the 13-1 1968 Colts. Sometimes things just happen.

 

Just speaking for myself, I'm not angry about the Super Bowl, and I was never one calling for his head. I mostly defended him, until 2011. But he didn't coach well in the Super Bowl. That's all my point is. 

[Superman]

Ok, even if I didn't ignore it it's hardly a compelling argument. Having average at best corners play tighter coverage with a hobbled Freeney vs a high powered offense doesn't convince me of an altered outcome.

 

You didn't ask for a pathway to a different outcome. You asked for specifics of why Caldwell's coaching wasn't good in the Super Bowl. The defensive gameplan is a big one.

[Gavin]

You didn't ask for a pathway to a different outcome. You asked for specifics of why Caldwell's coaching wasn't good in the Super Bowl. The defensive gameplan is a big one.

We played our Corners well off of wr's consistently though under Dungy to

[Superman]

We played our Corners well off of wr's consistently though under Dungy to

 

Not really. We gave cushions, but the DBs would usually engage receivers off the line to slow them down and disrupt timing. 

 

In the Super Bowl, we gave deeper cushions than usual, hardly engaged receivers, and got ripped up. And the worst part is that we did it over and over again, despite the fact that it wasn't working.

 

Besides, I was critical of the defensive schemes and adjustments (or lack thereof) under Dungy also. The differences in how we defended the Pats at the end of the game in 2007 vs how we defended them at the end of the game in 2009 are a prime example of why I had a problem with the way we played defense under Dungy. I never liked Ron Meeks. "But Dungy did it, too!" isn't a good defense, IMO.

[southwest1]

Just speaking for myself, I'm not angry about the Super Bowl, and I was never one calling for his head. I mostly defended him, until 2011. But he didn't coach well in the Super Bowl. That's all my point is. 

My main issue with Caldwell was has inability or unwillingness to make sideline or halftime adjustments. Jim took the "stay the course" approach to a whole new level of confusion & bewilderment to me. 

 

Water under the bridge now. If he's have success now, more power to him. 

[Gavin]

Not really. We gave cushions, but the DBs would usually engage receivers off the line to slow them down and disrupt timing. 

 

In the Super Bowl, we gave deeper cushions than usual, hardly engaged receivers, and got ripped up. And the worst part is that we did it over and over again, despite the fact that it wasn't working.

 

Besides, I was critical of the defensive schemes and adjustments (or lack thereof) under Dungy also. The differences in how we defended the Pats at the end of the game in 2007 vs how we defended them at the end of the game in 2009 are a prime example of why I had a problem with the way we played defense under Dungy. I never liked Ron Meeks. "But Dungy did it, too!" isn't a good defense, IMO.

Theres a couple head scratching calls on defense in the game now that I am going back and watching the SB vs Saints.....especially letting them march right down the field to end the 1st half and give them a field goal attempt....Should have played our Corners tighter there in my opinion and a 3rd down and short we gave up do to being 6-7 yards off the receiver  but I really think it was more a case of bad tackling and overpursuit overall throughout the game, Entirely to many players diving at feet and whiffing...Better  tackling and I think it adds up to a much better result even with Brees going 32-39 which were mostly all short passes....At the same time I made my feelings quite clear about Bend But Don't Break strategy on more then a couple instances

[MJD42]

?

 

The defensive gameplan was terrible. You can grade the defensive effort however you wish, but the gameplan was terrible. 

I disagree. The defense was not the issue in that SB. They were severely limited when Freeney was limited to one half of effectiveness. That effected how the secondary could play with no pass rush. AND still, 24 points with a chance for the offense to tie at the end after only scoring 17 points all game. It was a pretty bad game from Manning ...

[The Old Crow]

Just speaking for myself, I'm not angry about the Super Bowl, and I was never one calling for his head. I mostly defended him, until 2011. But he didn't coach well in the Super Bowl. That's all my point is.

He probably didn't coach his best game, and that's unfortunate in a Super Bowl. It happens , though, but you can come back from it like Shula did. He not only blew Super Bowl 3 by not putting Unitas in earlier, but blew the 1964 NFL Championship game. He is now in the HOF. Not saying Caldwell is on that track, but he has got two rings as an assistant , and is rolling with the Lions. You may well say the Lions were up and coming, but Schwartz couldn't get it done for years .

[LordHelpOurColts]

heh

[BOTT]

You didn't ask for a pathway to a different outcome. You asked for specifics of why Caldwell's coaching wasn't good in the Super Bowl. The defensive gameplan is a big one.

Lol ok