All Time Baltimore/Indy Colts Team

[dudeski]

Sure. I probably have more Colts memorabilia then you will ever have. I've probably been to more Colts games then you have been, and I haven't been to one in. 30 years, not counting the two Ravens playoff games with the Colts .

so. You quit on the team

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

I think Bob Irsay had the ultimate gun on his back pocket with the threat to move to four or five cities . As I've already said, I'm not dismissing Baltimore officials from stupidity. Your comment about a drunk and a * hole , is right on track. I'm fine with you guys liking the Colts. It's all good.

 

Is Bob Irsay responsible for the Baltimore Bullets as well  ?   

 

Welcome to the Darkside we got cookies Colts & Pacers  I'll save ya a seat on the bandwagon buddy .

[The Old Crow]

so. You quit on the team

No I didn't. In still a Baltimore Colts fan. I am a Baltimore Colts and Baltimore Ravens fan. All the Championships we won were pre-Irsay , which is why we have the Super Bowl 5 trophy in Baltimore. However, I think the Indy Colts are a good organization , and I even like their uniforms.

[BrentMc11]

Is Bob Irsay responsible for the Baltimore Bullets as well  ?   

 

Welcome to the Darkside we got cookies Colts & Pacers  I'll save ya a seat on the bandwagon buddy .

I am not sure who was responsible for that move, but Baltimore to Landover, Maryland is not much of a drive down 95.

 

Wes Unseld was da man!!    Oh...and Elvin Hayes....

[The Old Crow]

Is Bob Irsay responsible for the Baltimore Bullets as well  ?   

 

Welcome to the Darkside we got cookies Colts & Pacers  I'll save ya a seat on the bandwagon buddy .

I'm not a big NBA guy , but it was a little different with the Bullets. No, Bob Irsay wasn't responsible for that. Abe Pollin moved down to Landover, Maryland originally , and they became the Capitol Bullets for one year, and then the Washington Bullets, and now the Wizards. I think he wanted a more regional team. Since the team was still in Maryland, that move didn't bother me as much. They should have kept the name Bullets, and those cool burnt orange uniforms. I'm more a fan of college basketball with the University of Maryland, but I follow the Wizards from a distance.

I was actually at a Pacers- Golden State game recently in Indy, and had a real good time. I like your arena. I also enjoyed watching Steve Blake play from Maryland. He invoked good memories of the 2002 National Championship.

[BrentMc11]

I'm not a big NBA guy , but it was a little different with the Bullets. No, Bob Irsay wasn't responsible for that. Abe Pollin moved down to Landover, Maryland originally , and they became the Capitol Bullets for one year, and then the Washington Bullets, and now the Wizards. I think he wanted a more regional team. Since the team was still in Maryland, that move didn't bother me as much. They should have kept the name Bullets, and those cool burnt orange uniforms. I'm more a fan of college basketball with the University of Maryland, but I follow the Wizards from a distance.

I was actually at a Pacers- Golden State game recently in Indy, and had a real good time. I like your arena. I also enjoyed watching Steve Blake play from Maryland. He invoked good memories of the 2002 National Championship.

Thanks.  I remember him now!  

[The Old Crow]

I am not sure who was responsible for that move, but Baltimore to Landover, Maryland is not much of a drive down 95.

 

Wes Unseld was da man!!    Oh...and Elvin Hayes....

I don't think Baltimore is a big NBA or NHL town. For a while , we had the minor league Baltimore Clippers and Skipjacks in hockey. Baltimore has always been a great pro football and baseball town, but I think like warm to the NBA and NHL. Pollin used to play a few games in Baltimore for a while , but now that they are in downtown DC, not any more. I occasionally head down to a Wizards or Capitols game. It's fun , but not like football and baseball.

Wes Unseld was great, along with Gus Johnson, Earl the pearl Monroe, Jack Marin, and later Mike Riordan, and the Big E. Good memories .

[jvan1973]

No I didn't. In still a Baltimore Colts fan. I am a Baltimore Colts and Baltimore Ravens fan. All the Championships we won were pre-Irsay , which is why we have the Super Bowl 5 trophy in Baltimore. However, I think the Indy Colts are a good organization , and I even like their uniforms.

There is a copy of the super bowl 5 trophy in Baltimore. There is a copy in Indy as well. Carol Rosenbloom took the original with him when he went to LA

[BrentMc11]

There is a copy of the super bowl 5 trophy in Baltimore. There is a copy in Indy as well. Carol Rosenbloom took the original with him when he went to LA

Freaking traitor

[Coltsince4]

 and I even like their uniforms.

Heee!!Heee!! I bet you do!!!  

[ColtsHappy]

I am actually amazed and delighted at the respect that many of you here are showing for the Old Crow. It's nice to see, and I am always amazed at how he always has to have the last word. It's so funny to me actually, as previously expressed - he has excuse after excuse after excuse for why Baltimore dropped the ball on the Colts. I find it amusing. Do you think our COLTS would have similar excuses after suffering a beating? Of course they wouldn't and they don't - even though it has been stated here quite eloquently that they are one of the youngest teams as well as the most injured team and I believe we are now talking about the team with the highest player turnover since our 2-14 year. Excuses don't count, in case you haven't figured it out. Excuses are lame fodder for the lame. 

 

No butts in the seats is the only thing that counts and our somewhat deluded friend seems to be one of the few that doesn't get it.

 

Excuses don't count, the truth is the truth is the truth and the truth is Baltimore abandoned their beloved Colts and showed it eloquently by not showing up at the stadium. It really is that simple.

 

I know he will try to trump this post as he always has to have the last word. Empty words as far as I am concerned. Hollow excuses.

 

Yes, our Baltimore friend's facts are nothing more than hollow excuses.

 

I would never abandon my team, period - REGARDLESS of the circumstances.

 

His beloved city did.

 

End of story.

 

ColtsHappy

[The Old Crow]

There is a copy of the super bowl 5 trophy in Baltimore. There is a copy in Indy as well. Carol Rosenbloom took the original with him when he went to LA

As far as I know , there are only two Super Bowl 5 trophies. Georgia Frontiere's kids have one , and the NFL awarded the second one to the city of Baltimore. As far as I know , Indy does not have one, and if they did, it is not sanctioned by the NFL.

[The Old Crow]

I am actually amazed and delighted at the respect that many of you here are showing for the Old Crow. It's nice to see, and I am always amazed at how he always has to have the last word. It's so funny to me actually, as previously expressed - he has excuse after excuse after excuse for why Baltimore dropped the ball on the Colts. I find it amusing. Do you think our COLTS would have similar excuses after suffering a beating? Of course they wouldn't and they don't - even though it has been stated here quite eloquently that they are one of the youngest teams as well as the most injured team and I believe we are now talking about the team with the highest player turnover since our 2-14 year. Excuses don't count, in case you haven't figured it out. Excuses are lame fodder for the lame. 

 

No butts in the seats is the only thing that counts and our somewhat deluded friend seems to be one of the few that doesn't get it.

 

Excuses don't count, the truth is the truth is the truth and the truth is Baltimore abandoned their beloved Colts and showed it eloquently by not showing up at the stadium. It really is that simple.

 

I know he will try to trump this post as he always has to have the last word. Empty words as far as I am concerned. Hollow excuses.

 

Yes, our Baltimore friend's facts are nothing more than hollow excuses.

 

I would never abandon my team, period - REGARDLESS of the circumstances.

 

His beloved city did.

 

End of story.

 

ColtsHappy

Of course I will give an explanation , or the other side of the story , as I call it. I think I've already provided a very detailed account of what happened that takes into account both the Indy and Baltimore point of view. That being said, I will agree , for the most part , I've been treated fairly on this forum. In turn, I respect everyone's point of view with absolutely no malice.

[The Old Crow]

Heee!!Heee!! I bet you do!!!  

Especially since we invented them ! Lol

[Coltsince4]

 Especially since we invented them ! Lol

Heeeee!!!!Heeeee!!!!!

[The Old Crow]

I am actually amazed and delighted at the respect that many of you here are showing for the Old Crow. It's nice to see, and I am always amazed at how he always has to have the last word. It's so funny to me actually, as previously expressed - he has excuse after excuse after excuse for why Baltimore dropped the ball on the Colts. I find it amusing. Do you think our COLTS would have similar excuses after suffering a beating? Of course they wouldn't and they don't - even though it has been stated here quite eloquently that they are one of the youngest teams as well as the most injured team and I believe we are now talking about the team with the highest player turnover since our 2-14 year. Excuses don't count, in case you haven't figured it out. Excuses are lame fodder for the lame. 

 

No butts in the seats is the only thing that counts and our somewhat deluded friend seems to be one of the few that doesn't get it.

 

Excuses don't count, the truth is the truth is the truth and the truth is Baltimore abandoned their beloved Colts and showed it eloquently by not showing up at the stadium. It really is that simple.

 

I know he will try to trump this post as he always has to have the last word. Empty words as far as I am concerned. Hollow excuses.

 

Yes, our Baltimore friend's facts are nothing more than hollow excuses.

 

I would never abandon my team, period - REGARDLESS of the circumstances.

 

His beloved city did.

 

End of story.

 

ColtsHappy

Lets examine your theory about butts in the seats. The Indianapolis Colts won only 41 % of their games from 1984-1996. Their average attendance per year was about 446,000 , which comes out to about 55,750, in a stadium (Hoosier Dome) that held over 60,000. Wow, that's a lot of non sellouts , and pretty low attendance. Where are your excuses for this low attendance. Maybe your fans were abandoning the team after all the losing Bob Irsay seasons. Maybe had Bob Irsay lived, Peyton may have pulled an Eli, like how Irsay handled the Elway situation, and odds are the Colts would be in LA.

So the Baltimore Colts had sellouts from 1958- 1971, over 60,000 every game , until an incompetent owner came to town, the same one that apparently caused your fans to abandon the team, based on your theory, and the attendance figures. The Ravens have sold out every game since 1996, hardly a fan base that abandons teams.

Like the pretender before you who had the one-sided blog against Baltimore, keep trying. I'll always report the facts in an even handed manner, for others to decide . And for the record, I never abandoned my team, Irsay abandoned us. Nothing against Indy , but I'm not from there. I follow Baltimore teams. The reason I'm trumping your post, is because it's just too easy to trump. The lesson here, and this goes to all cities, when an owner puts a poor product on the field , attendance drops. It happened with the New York Yankees when CBS owned them in the late 60's and early 70's, and it happened in both Baltimore AND Indy in the Bob Irsay era.

[ColtsHappy]

Lets examine your theory about butts in the seats. The Indianapolis Colts won only 41 % of their games from 1984-1996. Their average attendance per year was about 446,000 , which comes out to about 55,750, in a stadium (Hoosier Dome) that held over 60,000. Wow, that's a lot of non sellouts , and pretty low attendance. Where are your excuses for this low attendance. Maybe your fans were abandoning the team after all the losing Bob Irsay seasons. Maybe had Bob Irsay lived, Peyton may have pulled an Eli, like how Irsay handled the Elway situation, and odds are the Colts would be in LA.

So the Baltimore Colts had sellouts from 1958- 1971, over 60,000 every game , until an incompetent owner came to town, the same one that apparently caused your fans to abandon the team, based on your theory, and the attendance figures. The Ravens have sold out every game since 1996, hardly a fan base that abandons teams.

Like the pretender before you who had the one-sided blog against Baltimore, keep trying. I'll always report the facts in an even handed manner, for others to decide . And for the record, I never abandoned my team, Irsay abandoned us. Nothing against Indy , but I'm not from there. I follow Baltimore teams. The reason I'm trumping your post, is because it's just too easy to trump. The lesson here, and this goes to all cities, when an owner puts a poor product on the field , attendance drops. It happened with the New York Yankees when CBS owned them in the late 60's and early 70's, and it happened in both Baltimore AND Indy in the Bob Irsay era.

There is no theory here - pure unadulterated facts:

 

Memorial Stadium half full. Clearly documented everywhere. Fans fair weather. Baltimore abandons team. Colts have stadium. Colts want team.

 

It's a win-win for everybody. As usual you come back with the same lame excuses, excuses, excuses. That is all they are. There is no defense don't you see that? I found your musings enjoyable to a point - but you are becoming an unflattering caricature of yourself. There is NEVER any defense for abandoning the team, the circumstances are completely irrelevant. Baltimore made their bed and they have made out quite nicely with the Ravens.

 

Real men don't make excuses, they also don't abandon their team - EVER!

 

Case Closed.

 

 

ColtsHappy

[The Old Crow]

There is no theory here - pure unadulterated facts:

 

Memorial Stadium half full. Clearly documented everywhere. Fans fair weather. Baltimore abandons team. Colts have stadium. Colts want team.

 

It's a win-win for everybody. As usual you come back with the same lame excuses, excuses, excuses. That is all they are. There is no defense don't you see that? I found your musings enjoyable to a point - but you are becoming an unflattering caricature of yourself. There is NEVER any defense for abandoning the team, the circumstances are completely irrelevant. Baltimore made their bed and they have made out quite nicely with the Ravens.

 

Real men don't make excuses, they also don't abandon their team - EVER!

 

Case Closed.

 

 

ColtsHappy

Wrong , you lose. The Baltimore Colts averaged at least 43,000 a game even in the last six losing seasons, somewhat comparable to the Indy drop in attendance during the Bob Irsay years, and you guys didn't even have the fourteen years of complete sellouts the Baltimore Colts did. I'm not making any excuses, I'm giving you the cold , hard facts you requested. Now that I've given you those facts, you don't like it. Here is the truth and bottom line about all major league cities. When any city has year after year of losing seasons , attendance will go down. That is a fact. When the team gets better, and fans feel hope, they come back to the stadium. They don't abandon their team, they usually stay home and watch on TV. The fans come back, except for the real diehards that are always there. You are taking a high handed approach that Indy was immune to this phenomena , but they weren't , and attendance dropped . So your case is closed like Hamilton Burger losing every time to Perry Mason.

Do me one favor , please don't play amateur psychiatrist with me about creating unflattering caricatures and real men stuff. First, I really don't have some kind of image where anyone would create a caricature for. I'm just a regular guy trying to give my real opinion on this forum. Secondly, besides being a businessman, I was a military officer for fourteen years and served my country during desert storm and Bosnia. Just because I have an opinion you don't agree with , doesn't make me less of man. No need to get that personal. All I'm doing is defending a position I believe in, and giving you another side of the story you may not have known.

[ColtsHappy]

Wrong , you lose. The Baltimore Colts averaged at least 43,000 a game even in the last six losing seasons, somewhat comparable to the Indy drop in attendance during the Bob Irsay years, and you guys didn't even have the fourteen years of complete sellouts the Baltimore Colts did. I'm not making any excuses, I'm giving you the cold , hard facts you requested. Now that I've given you those facts, you don't like it. Here is the truth and bottom line about all major league cities. When any city has year after year of losing seasons , attendance will go down. That is a fact. When the team gets better, and fans feel hope, they come back to the stadium. They don't abandon their team, they usually stay home and watch on TV. The fans come back, except for the real diehards that are always there. You are taking a high handed approach that Indy was immune to this phenomena , but they weren't , and attendance dropped . So your case is closed like Hamilton Burger losing every time to Perry Mason.

Do me one favor , please don't play amateur psychiatrist with me about creating unflattering caricatures and real men stuff. First, I really don't have some kind of image where anyone would create a caricature for. I'm just a regular guy trying to give my real opinion on this forum. Secondly, besides being a businessman, I was a military officer for fourteen years and served my country during desert storm and Bosnia. Just because I have an opinion you don't agree with , doesn't make me less of man. No need to get that personal. All I'm doing is defending a position I believe in, and giving you another side of the story you may not have known.

Sorry, your time has run out - sorry I hit such a nerve.

 

I don't speak for anyone else, but I for one am tired of hearing your whining and excuses.  Me? Military Police officer Kaiserslautern, Germany.

 

Lesson learned:

 

Don't abandon your team and maybe they won't leave in the middle of the night.

 

ColtsHappy

[The Old Crow]

Lesson learned:

 

Don't abandon your team and maybe they won't leave in the middle of the night.

 

ColtsHappy

I didn't abandon my team ! I was at that last game against the Oilers ! Look, Irsay wanted more money , which is why he really left. It was all about the money , and he felt there was more of it in Indy. . Baltimore had a deal that gave him attendance guarantees, but Irsay's greatest guarantee of good attendance , would be putting a good product on the field. Indy did similar things with Irsay towards the end of his life in 1996, because attendance was dropping, and he wasn't making the money he wanted. Fortunately , you guys got the time to put together another stadium deal because he died , and Jimmy took over. You can say what you want , but it's always been about the money. I'll give you guys one thing, you guys had the history to look back on , that Baltimore did not, and you gave Jim Irsay one of the best stadium deals in the NFL at LOS. There was talk going around at that time about a possible move to LA, and your civic leaders correctly knew what could happen if you didn't play ball. There is a reason why the Irsay's are worth 1.6 billion.

Throw out all the eminent domain and abandonment stuff , Bob Irsay was shopping around the Baltimore Colts as early as 1974 , for more money. Remember, sellouts went until 1971, and attendance was still very good in 1972 and 1973. There was no Eminent Domain or real attendance issues, but he was still shopping the team. What Bob Irsay did was play five cities off each other, to get the best possible deal for himself. He took corporate blackmail to an art. All cities now know you had better give NFL owners what they want , or they will leave.

You think Bob Irsay was sentimental about Indy , no , he was going for the best deal he could get. He was feted. , and had stadium celebrations in Phoenix, Jacksonville, and Nashville, among others . This while denying to Baltimore he would ever move the Colts. The biggest motivation for the midnight ride was greed, over civic goodwill and public trust . I understand how Indy fans feel, you just want a team and NFL football, and I don't blame you. You love the Colts, and rightfully so. Just don't make blanket statements about another city abandoning a team, when you don't know all the facts

[The Old Crow]

Sorry, your time has run out - sorry I hit such a nerve.

 

I don't speak for anyone else, but I for one am tired of hearing your whining and excuses.  Me? Military Police officer Kaiserslautern, Germany.

 

Lesson learned:

 

Don't abandon your team and maybe they won't leave in the middle of the night.

 

ColtsHappy

You haven't hit any nerve, this is just a sports forum. However you are making statements about things you don't have all the facts to, and making assumptions about me. It's no big deal if you don't like me or my views, and you have a right to that opinion , but I don't think I'm that bad of a guy . Thanks for your service in Germany, and for the record I'm not whining , just defending a position I believe in.

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

I didn't abandon my team ! I was at that last game against the Oilers ! Look, Irsay wanted more money , which is why he really left. It was all about the money , and he felt there was more of it in Indy. . Baltimore had a deal that gave him attendance guarantees, but Irsay's greatest guarantee of good attendance , would be putting a good product on the field. Indy did similar things with Irsay towards the end of his life in 1996, because attendance was dropping, and he wasn't making the money he wanted. Fortunately , you guys got the time to put together another stadium deal because he died , and Jimmy took over. You can say what you want , but it's always been about the money. I'll give you guys one thing, you guys had the history to look back on , that Baltimore did not, and you gave Jim Irsay one of the best stadium deals in the NFL at LOS. There was talk going around at that time about a possible move to LA, and your civic leaders correctly knew what could happen if you didn't play ball. There is a reason why the Irsay's are worth 1.6 billion.

Throw out all the eminent domain and abandonment stuff , Bob Irsay was shopping around the Baltimore Colts as early as 1974 , for more money. Remember, sellouts went until 1971, and attendance was still very good in 1972 and 1973. There was no Eminent Domain or real attendance issues, but he was still shopping the team. What Bob Irsay did was play five cities off each other, to get the best possible deal for himself. He took corporate blackmail to an art. All cities now know you had better give NFL owners what they want , or they will leave.

You think Bob Irsay was sentimental about Indy , no , he was going for the best deal he could get. He was feted. , and had stadium celebrations in Phoenix, Jacksonville, and Nashville, among others . This while denying to Baltimore he would ever move the Colts. The biggest motivation for the midnight ride was greed, over civic goodwill and public trust . I understand how Indy fans feel, you just want a team and NFL football, and I don't blame you. You love the Colts, and rightfully so. Just don't make blanket statements about another city abandoning a team, when you don't know all the facts

 

According to Wikipedia Rosenbloom was unhappy with the situation & Bob Irsay bought into a losing situation IMO Rosenbloom was if there is 1 the bad guy that set in motion the Colts relocation now combine that with the legislators & general public voting down much needed repairs with public funds  as well as the threat of imminent domain  .

 

Clearly the is a lot of blame that should go around & it all lies in Baltimore .

 

The Colts issues predate Irsay yet he according to most gets 100 % of the blame . He inherited a antiquated stadium of course its all about the money  for Irsay & Rosenbloom  yet Rosenbloom is a good guy & Irsay is not .

 

Standing here 30 years after the fact I personally believe its asinine to believe any owner would have done anything differently if faced with a similar situation . Both Colts & Ravens fans understand that our teams need a decent & modern stadium to play in & for the fans to enjoy . At the end of the day Baltimore fans & the State pushed there team that so many still claim to love away no its no ones fault here in Indy & we thank those who were so incredibly stupid .

 

Instead of feeling sorry for Baltimore Colts fans who pushed there team away I feel sorry for Browns fans who really deserve a Lombardi for there contributions that lead to a Superbowl Win for Trent Dilfer  .

 

Although the Colts had been successful since arriving in Baltimore for the 1953 NFL season, Memorial Stadium was claimed to be "inadequate" for both them and Major League Baseball's Baltimore Orioles. In May 1969, the city of Baltimore announced it would seek a “substantial” increase in Memorial Stadium rental fees from Colts owner Carroll Rosenbloom and the team itself. Rosenbloom had already called Memorial Stadium “antiquated” and had threatened to move all Colts home games out of the stadium unless improvements were made.^[1] Rosenbloom even considered using $12–20 million of his own money to help fund the building of a new football only stadium on land in adjoining Baltimore County.^[2] By November 1971, Rosenbloom announced that the Colts would not return to Memorial Stadium when their lease ran out following the 1972 season and that he was not interested in negotiating with the city anymore.^[3] He wanted out of Baltimore for a few reasons—team revenue, problems with Baltimore Orioles ownership relating to Memorial Stadium revenues, a running feud with the Baltimore press, and his new wife's desire to move to the West Coast.^[3][4] Real estate investor Will Keland was originally slated to buy the Colts from Rosenbloom. Keland could not generate enough funds necessary to purchase the team, but his golfing buddy Robert Irsay, who originally was only slated to own 1 percent of the team, did possess the necessary funds and moved in to make the purchase. On July 13, 1972, Irsay became owner of the Colts. Under the terms of the arrangement, he bought the Los Angeles Rams for $19 million, then traded them to Rosenbloom for the Colts and $3 million in cash. The players for each team remained in their respective cities.

[ViriLudant]

Adonis, no blame for Irsay who willingly fielded an awful team?

Based on the threads I see on this forum, if Jim followed Bobs model, LOS would be half full at best. Colt fans today rightly want the best team possible.

Bob Irsay refused to do such a thing. THAT'S Why attendance in Baltimore was so low.

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

Baltimore fans love to live in the past its nice its comfortable but the players had there opinions at the time & for me this following statement is something that is all too obvious with some .

 

 

Mark Herrmann (former Purdue quarterback who joined the Colts in 1983): That whole season, we had heard rumblings something was going to happen. Mr. Irsay was not happy. There was not a smooth relationship between he and the city of Baltimore. The fan support was not great by any means. It was not a fun season. I had just come from Denver, where everybody was just so rabid about the Broncos. It was such a shock to me to have to go into a half-empty stadium and not have that support from a tremendously traditional franchise that had been behind that team forever.As players, we put those distractions on the back burner, but it was always being brought up and talked about.

I think a lot of those fans were living back in those Johnny Unitas days, Artie Donovan, Tom Matte, the late-'50s and early-'60s. We were kind of underachievers and those guys still lived there, so it was always there, and there was always that comparison. That gave you an empty feeling. This is our team, but we're not there to support you really. We're kind of living in the past and you guys aren't living up to our view of what the Colts are in our minds."

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

Adonis, no blame for Irsay who willingly fielded an awful team?

Based on the threads I see on this forum, if Jim followed Bobs model, LOS would be half full at best. Colt fans today rightly want the best team possible.

Bob Irsay refused to do such a thing. THAT'S Why attendance in Baltimore was so low.

 

Honestly what happens in baltimore stays in baltimore  like I said there is plenty of blame to go around . 30 years in Indy & I care nothing about baltimore its all about the Indy Colts .

 

A bad business man a jerk so I'v heard & the fans & state legislators voted with there wallets I get it  .  That Colts ownership  was solely responsible ? Well that dog don't hunt & is not bore out by the facts .

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

Over the previous couple of decades, Baltimore’s habit of taking private property—often on the cheap—had taken firm root. Invoking a public interest in seizing a football team (which, after three consecutive last place finishes, was clearly a “blighted” property!) struck few leaders or pundits as outrageous or even an unusual exercise of government power. On March 27, Maryland’s Senate passed the second bill. It was like a gun to Irsay’s head.

  

The Colts were unlike previous targets of eminent domain seizures, however. Owners of bricks-and-mortar properties could only complain and litigate when confronted with condemnation threats; the Colts could get their assets out of town. And so they did. The very next day after the Senate voted, on the evening of March 28—Irsay had worried that if the move began during business hours officials would hurriedly finalize the legislation and obtain a court order to padlock the team’s rented offices—moving vans arrived and staffers packed up contracts, medical files, uniforms and other equipment. Under cover of darkness and with snowflakes swirling among a few somber onlookers, 22 vans rumbled away from the Colts’ rented facilities; by dawn, everything associated with the team was well down the highway to Indianapolis.

 

Baltimore hurriedly played its eminent domain trump card, but it was too late. On March 29, Maryland’s House of Delegates passed and Governor Harry Hughes signed the pending seizure legislation and city officials wired a $40 million purchase “offer” to Irsay. On March 30, the city filed a formal condemnation suit. A year and a half and $500,000 in legal fees later, U.S. District Court Judge Walter E. Black, Jr. ruled that the Colts had moved beyond Baltimore’s legal reach by the time the city had formally begun its seizure proceedings.  Ever since, the Irsay name has been an expletive among Baltimore football fans. A local treasure had been stolen under cover of darkness, and anger was directed almost entirely at the thief. Little thought was given—then or now— to the repulsive power of eminent domain and other threats to the security of private property rights in the city. In the view of most policy- and opinion-makers, the episode was a tragic anomaly. Because the targets of such seizures are almost always immobile, their assets can be taken without much controversy and converted to “better” uses—case closed.

 The Maryland General Assembly does not post roll call votes from sessions prior to 1996. I will put in a request the Department of Legislative Services to get the roll call vote on the condemnation bills, from both the Senate and House of Delegates. Watch the video below, keeping in mind that city and state politicians deserve a large measure of blame for the heartache of Baltimore Colts fans.

[The Old Crow]

According to Wikipedia Rosenbloom was unhappy with the situation & Bob Irsay bought into a losing situation IMO Rosenbloom was if there is 1 the bad guy that set in motion the Colts relocation now combine that with the legislators & general public voting down much needed repairs with public funds  as well as the threat of imminent domain  .

 

Clearly the is a lot of blame that should go around & it all lies in Baltimore .

 

The Colts issues predate Irsay yet he according to most gets 100 % of the blame . He inherited a antiquated stadium of course its all about the money  for Irsay & Rosenbloom  yet Rosenbloom is a good guy & Irsay is not .

 

Standing here 30 years after the fact I personally believe its asinine to believe any owner would have done anything differently if faced with a similar situation . Both Colts & Ravens fans understand that our teams need a decent & modern stadium to play in & for the fans to enjoy . At the end of the day Baltimore fans & the State pushed there team that so many still claim to love away no its no ones fault here in Indy & we thank those who were so incredibly stupid .

 

Instead of feeling sorry for Baltimore Colts fans who pushed there team away I feel sorry for Browns fans who really deserve a Lombardi for there contributions that lead to a Superbowl Win for Trent Dilfer  .

 

Although the Colts had been successful since arriving in Baltimore for the 1953 NFL season, Memorial Stadium was claimed to be "inadequate" for both them and Major League Baseball's Baltimore Orioles. In May 1969, the city of Baltimore announced it would seek a “substantial” increase in Memorial Stadium rental fees from Colts owner Carroll Rosenbloom and the team itself. Rosenbloom had already called Memorial Stadium “antiquated” and had threatened to move all Colts home games out of the stadium unless improvements were made.^[1] Rosenbloom even considered using $12–20 million of his own money to help fund the building of a new football only stadium on land in adjoining Baltimore County.^[2] By November 1971, Rosenbloom announced that the Colts would not return to Memorial Stadium when their lease ran out following the 1972 season and that he was not interested in negotiating with the city anymore.^[3] He wanted out of Baltimore for a few reasons—team revenue, problems with Baltimore Orioles ownership relating to Memorial Stadium revenues, a running feud with the Baltimore press, and his new wife's desire to move to the West Coast.^[3][4] Real estate investor Will Keland was originally slated to buy the Colts from Rosenbloom. Keland could not generate enough funds necessary to purchase the team, but his golfing buddy Robert Irsay, who originally was only slated to own 1 percent of the team, did possess the necessary funds and moved in to make the purchase. On July 13, 1972, Irsay became owner of the Colts. Under the terms of the arrangement, he bought the Los Angeles Rams for $19 million, then traded them to Rosenbloom for the Colts and $3 million in cash. The players for each team remained in their respective cities.

Let's talk about Carroll Rosenbloom. First, I don't think I ever said it was all Bob Irsay's fault. My position is it wasn't all Baltimore's fault . I think I'm on record saying that we should have built a new stadium, and ditched the blue laws. Yes, Rosenbloom wanted a new stadium , but he wanted a bigger market team. He then married his gold digging wife Georgia, who wanted to move to the west coast. The Colts had sold out during most of the Rosenbloom years, so he was doing pretty good on his investment. Unlike Irsay, he was a successful owner , but not the nicest guy. Long after the franchise swap with Irsay, when he passed away in LA , he gave the gold digging wife 70 % of the team, and left his five kids from his first marriage with 6 % each, which totaled out to about 2 million dollars. Rosenbloom also died under mysterious circumstances drowning in a pool. At least Bob Irsay took care of his son Jimmy, and his grand kids. Georgia Frontiere moved to St Louis, fired Carroll' son Steve, and the Frontiere's own the team to this day after Georgia's death. Also, Rosenbloom and his wife stole the original Super Bowl 5 trophy, and should be made to give it back to Baltimore. My point is , Rosenbloom was a successful owner, but a very abrasive owner like Irsay.

[The Old Crow]

Honestly what happens in baltimore stays in baltimore  like I said there is plenty of blame to go around . 30 years in Indy & I care nothing about baltimore its all about the Indy Colts .

 

A bad business man a jerk so I'v heard & the fans & state legislators voted with there wallets I get it  .  That Colts ownership  was solely responsible ? Well that dog don't hunt & is not bore out by the facts .

Who said that Colts ownership was solely responsible. You need to read some of the previous posts where I discuss this in detail.

[jvan1973]

Let's talk about Carroll Rosenbloom. First, I don't think I ever said it was all Bob Irsay's fault. My position is it wasn't all Baltimore's fault . I think I'm on record saying that we should have built a new stadium, and ditched the blue laws. Yes, Rosenbloom wanted a new stadium , but he wanted a bigger market team. He then married his gold digging wife Georgia, who wanted to move to the west coast. The Colts had sold out during most of the Rosenbloom years, so he was doing pretty good on his investment. Unlike Irsay, he was a successful owner , but not the nicest guy. Long after the franchise swap with Irsay, when he passed away in LA , he gave the gold digging wife 70 % of the team, and left his five kids from his first marriage with 6 % each, which totaled out to about 2 million dollars. Rosenbloom also died under mysterious circumstances drowning in a pool. At least Bob Irsay took care of his son Jimmy, and his grand kids. Georgia Frontiere moved to St Louis, fired Carroll' son Steve, and the Frontiere's own the team to this day after Georgia's death. Also, Rosenbloom and his wife stole the original Super Bowl 5 trophy, and should be made to give it back to Baltimore. My point is , Rosenbloom was a successful owner, but a very abrasive owner like Irsay.

i don't think taking something you own is considered theft

[The Old Crow]

Baltimore fans love to live in the past its nice its comfortable but the players had there opinions at the time & for me this following statement is something that is all too obvious with some .

 

 

Mark Herrmann (former Purdue quarterback who joined the Colts in 1983): That whole season, we had heard rumblings something was going to happen. Mr. Irsay was not happy. There was not a smooth relationship between he and the city of Baltimore. The fan support was not great by any means. It was not a fun season. I had just come from Denver, where everybody was just so rabid about the Broncos. It was such a shock to me to have to go into a half-empty stadium and not have that support from a tremendously traditional franchise that had been behind that team forever.As players, we put those distractions on the back burner, but it was always being brought up and talked about.

I think a lot of those fans were living back in those Johnny Unitas days, Artie Donovan, Tom Matte, the late-'50s and early-'60s. We were kind of underachievers and those guys still lived there, so it was always there, and there was always that comparison. That gave you an empty feeling. This is our team, but we're not there to support you really. We're kind of living in the past and you guys aren't living up to our view of what the Colts are in our minds."

Nobody in Baltimore cares what an Indiana( Purdue) bum of a quarterback thinks of Baltimore. He is known as one of the bums Irsay traded for after a drinking binge, by trading John Elway for virtually nothing. This guy is a butt of a joke in one of the worst trades in NFL history ! If he wonders why fan support was that bad in Baltimore, it's because Irsay made us watch this sorry excuse for a quarterback instead of Elway ! Maybe you guys would have been happy if Irsay would have traded Peyton Manning for Mark Hermann. If you were, then you would be nuts.

[The Old Crow]

i don't think taking something you own is considered theft

I don't think I mentioned theft in this thread. I was explaining the dynamics of the move .

[jvan1973]

I don't think I mentioned theft in this thread. I was explaining the dynamics of the move .

you didn't say rosenbloom stole the superbowl 5 trophy?

[The Old Crow]

you didn't say rosenbloom stole the superbowl 5 trophy?

Rosenbloom did steal the Super Bowl 5 trophy. In 1972 , with Super Bowl 7 in LA, Rosenbloom concocted a story that he was all the Super Bowl trophies displayed. A Baltimore Colts employee brought it out , but it never was returned. It was supposed to stay with the Baltimore Colts, not Rosenbloom, after he had swapped the Colts for the Rams, so this was outright theft. Bob Irsay tried to get it back, but failed. Jellyfish Rozelle didn't want to fight Rosenbloom, so he ordered a replica made for the Colts. Around this time, the Colts moved to Indy, and as part of the settlement between Irsay and Baltimore, the Super Bowl 5 replica trophy, and the original one go to Baltimore. The second one is in Baltimore at the Sports Legends museum near Camden Yards. The original was last seen at the home of Georgia Frontiere, and I would like to see Baltimore move to get the original back.

You may wonder about the 58, 59, and 68 NFL Championship trophies the Baltimore Colts won . This was a perpetual trophy called the Ed Thorp trophy I think, and was lost by the Minnesota Vikings after the 1969 season, which was the last of the NFL Championships. Legend has it that the Vikings are cursed for losing this trophy. It has never been found.

[The Old Crow]

you didn't say rosenbloom stole the superbowl 5 trophy?

I thought you were talking about the move.

[jvan1973]

Rosenbloom did steal the Super Bowl 5 trophy. In 1972 , with Super Bowl 7 in LA, Rosenbloom concocted a story that he was all the Super Bowl trophies displayed. A Baltimore Colts employee brought it out , but it never was returned. It was supposed to stay with the Baltimore Colts, not Rosenbloom, after he had swapped the Colts for the Rams, so this was outright theft. Bob Irsay tried to get it back, but failed. Jellyfish Rozelle didn't want to fight Rosenbloom, so he ordered a replica made for the Colts. Around this time, the Colts moved to Indy, and as part of the settlement between Irsay and Baltimore, the Super Bowl 5 replica trophy, and the original one go to Baltimore. The second one is in Baltimore at the Sports Legends museum near Camden Yards. The original was last seen at the home of Georgia Frontiere, and I would like to see Baltimore move to get the original back.

You may wonder about the 58, 59, and 68 NFL Championship trophies the Baltimore Colts won . This was a perpetual trophy called the Ed Thorp trophy I think, and was lost by the Minnesota Vikings after the 1969 season, which was the last of the NFL Championships. Legend has it that the Vikings are cursed for losing this trophy. It has never been found.

the trophy belongs to the team, not the city. The trophy won in LA with the raiders is in Oakland

[The Old Crow]

the trophy belongs to the team, not the city. The trophy won in LA with the raiders is in Oakland

You are dead wrong on this one. This isn't my opinion , this was the settlement worked out between Bob Irsay and the City of Baltimore, after the move . The Super Bowl 5 trophy is the property of Baltimore. This is a stone, cold fact whether you choose to believe it or not. As the Baltimore Colts are no longer in the city, it does belong to the City of Baltimore. You can personally see the Super Bowl trophy if you ever come to Baltimore, if you don't believe me. Remember, Al Davis owned the Raiders when they were in Oakland and LA, Rosenbloom owned the Colts when they won. Irsay got mostly everything, but we still have that trophy.

[jvan1973]

You are dead wrong on this one. This isn't my opinion , this was the settlement worked out between Bob Irsay and the City of Baltimore, after the move . The Super Bowl 5 trophy is the property of Baltimore. This is a stone, cold fact whether you choose to believe it or not. As the Baltimore Colts are no longer in the city, it does belong to the City of Baltimore. You can personally see the Super Bowl trophy if you ever come to Baltimore, if you don't believe me. Remember, Al Davis owned the Raiders when they were in Oakland and LA, Rosenbloom owned the Colts when they won. Irsay got mostly everything, but we still have that trophy.

Yeah, there is a replica in baltimore

Also, thanks for proving my point about Davis. He took the sb trophy from la with him back to Oakland

[The Old Crow]

Yeah, there is a replica in baltimore

Also, thanks for proving my point about Davis. He took the sb trophy from la with him back to Oakland

 

In most cases, as with Davis, the trophy would have gone with the franchise. However, in the Colts case there was a settlement between the city and Irsay. Another trivia fact about the Super Bowl 5 trophy is George Young's name was added to the replica, but is not featured on the original pilfered by Rosenbloom and Frontiere. George Young , who many of you may remember him as a GM with the Giants later, was added late in the season as an offensive line coach. That is why he wasn't on the original. This is a historic trophy. It was the first Lomardi trophy , as Vince had died months earlier. His widow had presented the trophy to Rosenbloom, and the Colts. Make no mistake about it, this was outright theft from Rosenbloom. 

 

Rosenbloom was a great owner in terms of wins and losses, but he engineered the tax exempt swap of the Colts and Rams, set up the Rams move to Anaheim Stadium because of similar complaints that the LA Coliseum wasn't making him enough money, and then his seven times married widow Georgia, moved the Rams to St. Louis. Three moves, tons of money. Irsay was a rank amateur businessman compared to Rosenbloom. This guy put 70 % of the team in Georgia's name to get a break with the widow's tax, but she screwed his kids ! Another beautiful legacy, but the guy did win in Baltimore and LA , I'll say that for him. 

[Blueblazes]

Both of those guys Laird and White are on Raven's shows on MASN and WBAL respectively. You are dead right about Chuck Thompson. I grew up listening to him on a transister radio on WBAL in Baltimore. You are right , he did the local Colts games, and the regional games in those days. He also did the Orioles games with Bill O'Donnell. After wins, you were treated to his famous saying, ' Ain't the beer cold," which to me invoked memories of Natty Boh beer, that has made a comeback today. The late 60's and early 70's were very good times in Baltimore, with the Orioles in four World Series winning two, and the Colts in two Super Bowls, winning one. We even had great pro basketball then with the Baltimore Bullets, who were a great team, and had epic battles with the New York Knicks. Great memories.

All of the Baltimore teams were my favorite. I didn't live there but they were the closest major sports city and I was a diehard Colts, Orioles and Bullets fan. Back in '68, the Braves came into my radar but I still love the Orioles as well. Bullets teams with Wes Unseld and Earl Monroe were the first Bullets teams I liked. Good times.

[The Old Crow]

All of the Baltimore teams were my favorite. I didn't live there but they were the closest major sports city and I was a diehard Colts, Orioles and Bullets fan. Back in '68, the Braves came into my radar but I still love the Orioles as well. Bullets teams with Wes Unseld and Earl Monroe were the first Bullets teams I liked. Good times.

I don't know if you ever get to Baltimore, but if you are at a Orioles or Ravens game, check out the Sports Legends Museum that has displays on the Colts, Ravens, Orioles, and Bullets, among other great stuff. Johnny Unitas's high tops are there , along with much of his personal memorabilia.