All Time Baltimore/Indy Colts Team

[Blueblazes]

I don't know if you ever get to Baltimore, but if you are at a Orioles or Ravens game, check out the Sports Legends Museum that has displays on the Colts, Ravens, Orioles, and Bullets, among other great stuff. Johnny Unitas's high tops are there , along with much of his personal memorabilia.

That's awesome. I plan on doing that now.

[horseshoepower]

This list is subjective but, how can anyone pick Mike V for kicker over Adam V? Vanderjagt while a great kicker in the regular season was not money in the post season,2000 against the Dolphins & 2005 against the Steelers. I think the best way to solve the all-time teams is to check out which Colts were dominant over others during the time they played. 

[azcolt]

Average athletes of today would dominate the athletes of yesteryear. Bigger, stronger, faster

if he read this comment, Jim Brown would have a stroke.

[Blueblazes]

if he read this comment, Jim Brown would have a stroke.

As would Paul Warfield that ran a 4.5 40 with shoulder pads and helmet on grass (that translates to about 4.35-4.4 on turf in shorts at the combine) or Dave Robinson at 6-3-245 whom ran a 4.6 (by the way he was an outside linebacker) with no year round training or supplements or Bob Hayes that ran a 4.1 40 (he claims it was a 4.0 actually). The average players of yesteryear would not be able to compete today, but who knows, with year round training and suplements? But one thing is for sure, the above average and very good athletes in the past could have competed at a high level today (especialy if you add in supplements and year round training). 

[horseshoepower]

 

So I would love to see what you guys and gals would put down for the all time Colts team.  And I mean Colts, no matter what city they called home.  here is mine:

 

QB: John Unitas - Doesn't have Peytons records, but probably did more for his team and titles given the time he played in.  Toughest position to pick on this team

RB: Edgerran James -  Hard to argue with the yards he put up.

FB: Alan Ameche - Didn't play that long in the NFL but what a fullback

WR: Raymond Berry - Made himself a great receive despite physical limitations

WR: Marvin Harrison - Probably the greatest Colt receiver of all time

TE: John Mackey - What a freight train coming at you with speed!

T: Bob Vogel - Great offensive tackle.  Doesn't get the respect.

T: Jim Parker - As dominant as a tackle as you will see

G: Chris Hinton - He could play tackle or guard, so I'll start him at guard

G: 

C: Ray Donaldson - Considered one of the best centers in the NFL for a long time.  Very strong and quick footed

 

DE: Dwight Freeney - Relentless on every play

DE: Gino Marchetti - Considered by many the best DE of his era.  Deacons Jones looked up to him

DT: Tony Siragusa - You simply couldn't move the man.  Great run stuffer.

DT: BillY Ray Smith - Very good lineman who could play end or tackle

LB: Ted Hendricks - Didn't play too long with Baltimore but was very good his entire career.

MLB: Mike Curtis - Easy pick.  Very, very good MLB.

LB:  Duane Bickett - Forgetton Colt who could play run and rush the QB very well.

CB: Ray Buchanon - Size, speed, and playmaking ability

CB: Bobby Boyd - Long time Colts standout

S: Antoine Bethea - Sanders was flashier, but Bethea was better for a longer time.

S: Jerry Logan - 10 year starter who stood out

P: Rohn Stark - One of the NFLs best during his career.  Great athlete

K: Mike Vanderjagt - Gets flack but one of the best kickers in NFL history.

KR - Joe Washington - Could do it all.

Coach: Don Shula - Never lead Colts to a title but had them good every year.

 

I went back to research pro football reference.com and looked at all pro-team year by year 1953-2013 this list is almost spot on except remove Edgerrin James for Lenny Moore.

most all pro selections

# Name *. times selected (years)

1. Jim Parker RT 10 (57-66)

2. Gino Marchetti LDE 10 (55-64)

3. Johnny Unitas QB 9 (57-60, 63-65, 67,70)

4. Peyton Manning QB 8 (99-00, 03-06, 08-09)

5. Marvin Harrison WR 8 (99-06)

6. Bob Vogel LT 8 (64-71)

7. Rohn Stark P  7 (82-86, 90,92)

8. Lenny Moore HB 7 (56-61,64)

9. Chris Hinton LG 6 (83,85-89)

10. Raymond Berry WR 6 (57-60,65)

11. Art Donovan LDT 6 (54-58,60)

12. Mike Curtis MLB 5 (68-71,74)

13. Bobby Boyd LCB 5  (64-68)

14. Jeff Saturday C 4 (05-07,09)

15. Dwight Freeney RDE 4 (03-05,09)

16. Edgerrin James RB 4 (99-00, 04-05)

17. Ray Donaldson C 4 (86-89)

18. Rick Volk FS 4 (68-71)

19. Ordell Braase RDE 4 (60,65-67)

20. Bill Pellington MLB 4 (58,60,62,64)

21. Alan Ameche FB 4 (55-56,58-59)

22. Reggie Wayne WR 3 (07,09-10)

23. Marshall Faulk RB 3 (94-95,98)

24. Clarence Verdin KR/PR 3 (89-90,92)

25. Lydell Mitchell RB 3 (75-77)

 

 

 

 

[Blueblazes]

 

 

So I would love to see what you guys and gals would put down for the all time Colts team.  And I mean Colts, no matter what city they called home.  here is mine:

 

QB: John Unitas - Doesn't have Peytons records, but probably did more for his team and titles given the time he played in.  Toughest position to pick on this team

RB: Edgerran James -  Hard to argue with the yards he put up.

FB: Alan Ameche - Didn't play that long in the NFL but what a fullback

WR: Raymond Berry - Made himself a great receive despite physical limitations

WR: Marvin Harrison - Probably the greatest Colt receiver of all time

TE: John Mackey - What a freight train coming at you with speed!

T: Bob Vogel - Great offensive tackle.  Doesn't get the respect.

T: Jim Parker - As dominant as a tackle as you will see

G: Chris Hinton - He could play tackle or guard, so I'll start him at guard

G: 

C: Ray Donaldson - Considered one of the best centers in the NFL for a long time.  Very strong and quick footed

 

DE: Dwight Freeney - Relentless on every play

DE: Gino Marchetti - Considered by many the best DE of his era.  Deacons Jones looked up to him

DT: Tony Siragusa - You simply couldn't move the man.  Great run stuffer.

DT: BillY Ray Smith - Very good lineman who could play end or tackle

LB: Ted Hendricks - Didn't play too long with Baltimore but was very good his entire career.

MLB: Mike Curtis - Easy pick.  Very, very good MLB.

LB:  Duane Bickett - Forgetton Colt who could play run and rush the QB very well.

CB: Ray Buchanon - Size, speed, and playmaking ability

CB: Bobby Boyd - Long time Colts standout

S: Antoine Bethea - Sanders was flashier, but Bethea was better for a longer time.

S: Jerry Logan - 10 year starter who stood out

P: Rohn Stark - One of the NFLs best during his career.  Great athlete

K: Mike Vanderjagt - Gets flack but one of the best kickers in NFL history.

KR - Joe Washington - Could do it all.

Coach: Don Shula - Never lead Colts to a title but had them good every year.

 

I went back to research pro football reference.com and looked at all pro-team year by year 1953-2013 this list is almost spot on except remove Edgerrin James for Lenny Moore.

most all pro selections

# Name *. times selected (years)

1. Jim Parker RT 10 (57-66)

2. Gino Marchetti LDE 10 (55-64)

3. Johnny Unitas QB 9 (57-60, 63-65, 67,70)

4. Peyton Manning QB 8 (99-00, 03-06, 08-09)

5. Marvin Harrison WR 8 (99-06)

6. Bob Vogel LT 8 (64-71)

7. Rohn Stark P  7 (82-86, 90,92)

8. Lenny Moore HB 7 (56-61,64)

9. Chris Hinton LG 6 (83,85-89)

10. Raymond Berry WR 6 (57-60,65)

11. Art Donovan LDT 6 (54-58,60)

12. Mike Curtis MLB 5 (68-71,74)

13. Bobby Boyd LCB 5  (64-68)

14. Jeff Saturday C 4 (05-07,09)

15. Dwight Freeney RDE 4 (03-05,09)

16. Edgerrin James RB 4 (99-00, 04-05)

17. Ray Donaldson C 4 (86-89)

18. Rick Volk FS 4 (68-71)

19. Ordell Braase RDE 4 (60,65-67)

20. Bill Pellington MLB 4 (58,60,62,64)

21. Alan Ameche FB 4 (55-56,58-59)

22. Reggie Wayne WR 3 (07,09-10)

23. Marshall Faulk RB 3 (94-95,98)

24. Clarence Verdin KR/PR 3 (89-90,92)

25. Lydell Mitchell RB 3 (75-77)

 

 

 

 

 

I had that change as well, plus Art Donovan for Billy Ray (even though I liked Billy Ray).

[Hammer]

I don't know if you ever get to Baltimore, but if you are at a Orioles or Ravens game, check out the Sports Legends Museum that has displays on the Colts, Ravens, Orioles, and Bullets, among other great stuff. Johnny Unitas's high tops are there , along with much of his personal memorabilia.

 

  I've been a Colts fan since 1958 and I still am. (Yup, I was a bandwagon jumper) Finally made it to Baltimore last summer and visited the Sports Legends Museum. The whole complex at Camden Yards is cool. My daughter took my pic standing next to Unitas' statue. She asked me if I was going to rub his shoe. I said, not a chance!

    After this, we went to Fort McHenry and the Naval Academy and Museum. It was a great day!

[BrentMc11]

I had that change as well, plus Art Donovan for Billy Ray (even though I liked Billy Ray).

Billy Ray Cyrus?  

 

My achey....breaky heart cannot take anymore....

[The Old Crow]

I've been a Colts fan since 1958 and I still am. (Yup, I was a bandwagon jumper) Finally made it to Baltimore last summer and visited the Sports Legends Museum. The whole complex at Camden Yards is cool. My daughter took my pic standing next to Unitas' statue. She asked me if I was going to rub his shoe. I said, not a chance!

    After this, we went to Fort McHenry and the Naval Academy and Museum. It was a great day!

You can still rub the shoe for old times sake. Lol. I would highly recommend the Sports legends Museum at Camden Yards to all. It is next to Camden Yards , so if you take in an Orioles game, it is right next door. Ravens stadium sits adjacent to Camden Yards, so it is all right there. I thinks it's only about 6 bucks to get in, and they have a cool autograph shop there also. You can also visit the Babe Ruth museum and birthplace within walking distance, and can even walk to the Inner Harbor from there. Good move going to Ft McHenry and Annapolis. You don't have to be a Ravens or Orioles fan to enjoy the museum. For an Indy Colts fan it's a bonus because they do have Colt 's history on display. It's alright you jumped on the bandwagon. At least you got to watch a team you liked for 12 years. I stopped watching the NFL, except sporadically from 1984-1996, that's how bad the move broke me up. When we got a team back in 1996, it was like being reborn, except I hated how we got the Browns. I didn't like that at all.

If it was up to me, the Irsay's would have moved to Indy and named the team something different , the logos and records would have stayed in Baltimore, we would have gotten a new expansion team in Baltimore called the Colts, and Modell would have stayed in Cleveland. They have great fans in Cleveland, and that scenario should never have happened. I can't say that it has worked out bad for Baltimore and Indy. We have the Ravens , you have the Colts, we have 2 Super Bowls, you have 1. Part of me, if the Ravens are out of it , hopes the Browns win. I feel bad for the fans out there .

[Hammer]

There is no theory here - pure unadulterated facts:

 

Memorial Stadium half full. Clearly documented everywhere. Fans fair weather. Baltimore abandons team. Colts have stadium. Colts want team.

 

It's a win-win for everybody. As usual you come back with the same lame excuses, excuses, excuses. That is all they are. There is no defense don't you see that? I found your musings enjoyable to a point - but you are becoming an unflattering caricature of yourself. There is NEVER any defense for abandoning the team, the circumstances are completely irrelevant. Baltimore made their bed and they have made out quite nicely with the Ravens.

 

Real men don't make excuses, they also don't abandon their team - EVER!

 

Case Closed.

 

 

ColtsHappy

 

 

     A few years ago, the Indy fans may not have abandoned the Colts, but a great many abandoned LOS after just one losing season during the Peyton era. (Thank you Mr. Painter ) Didn't we go from a waiting list for season tickets to a great many available? Even though we live a thousand miles from Indy, my brother, nephew, son, and I seriously considered buying season tickets, banking on the hope that we were going to draft Luck! If I recall, wasn't there a near blackout in Indy last year for the playoff game against KC? I don't believe any city is immune to empty seats in their stadium. It's happened before and it will most certainly happen again.....even in Indianapolis.

[The Old Crow]

A few years ago, the Indy fans may not have abandoned the Colts, but a great many abandoned LOS after just one losing season during the Peyton era. (Thank you Mr. Painter ) Didn't we go from a waiting list for season tickets to a great many available? Even though we live a thousand miles from Indy, my brother, nephew, son, and I seriously considered buying season tickets, banking on the hope that we were going to draft Luck! If I recall, wasn't there a near blackout in Indy last year for the playoff game against KC? I don't believe any city is immune to empty seats in their stadium. It's happened before and it will most certainly happen again.....even in Indianapolis.

Excellent points, attendance does fall off in all cities when poor team performance reigns. You have to love the abandonment argument which is ridiculous as you point out, or the guy who actually had the nerve to bring up Mark Hermann. Can you imagine being in Baltimore after an 0-8-1 season , thinking John Elway is going to show up, and here comes Mark Hermann , because your owner makes one of the worst trades in league history. I didn't even think of the abandonment during the Painter year. Baltimore sucked for Elway, but we never got a chance to cheer him on like you did for Luck, because the elder Irsay traded him, then pulled the plug on Baltimore. If it was a stadium or blue law issue for moving, you can cite that , but the Baltimore fan abandonment issue is totally bogus. Like any fan base, they come back to the stadium in droves, when you put a competent product on the field.

[ColtsHappy]

Excellent points, attendance does fall off in all cities when poor team performance reigns. You have to love the abandonment argument which is ridiculous as you point out, or the guy who actually had the nerve to bring up Mark Hermann. Can you imagine being in Baltimore after an 0-8-1 season , thinking John Elway is going to show up, and here comes Mark Hermann , because your owner makes one of the worst trades in league history. I didn't even think of the abandonment during the Painter year. Baltimore sucked for Elway, but we never got a chance to cheer him on like you did for Luck, because the elder Irsay traded him, then pulled the plug on Baltimore. If it was a stadium or blue law issue for moving, you can cite that , but the Baltimore fan abandonment issue is totally bogus. Like any fan base, they come back to the stadium in droves, when you put a competent product on the field.

This is hiliarious. I know this will make me the most unpopular person on the board - but here it is.

 

If the Colts ever abandoned the team at the stadium for several consecutive years,like Baltimore did - REGARDLESS OF ANY AND ALL EXTERNAL CIRCUMSTANCES WHICH ULTIMATELY DON'T MATTER - I would be the first one to recommend getting out of dodge. I would GLADLY make the call to Mayflower myself.

 

Having an NFL team in your city is a privilege and not a right, and if you don't do the right thing you deserve to lose your team.

 

It is really that simple

 

Bash away, bashers - I know, I know - spoken like a true non-indy resident.

 

But the truth is still the truth and no owner in his right mind is going to keep his team in a stadium that is chronically half full. Regardless of anything else he will be out of business.

 

ColtsHappy

[The Old Crow]

This is hiliarious. I know this will make me the most unpopular person on the board - but here it is.

 

If the Colts ever abandoned the team at the stadium for several consecutive years,like Baltimore did - REGARDLESS OF ANY AND ALL EXTERNAL CIRCUMSTANCES WHICH ULTIMATELY DON'T MATTER - I would be the first one to recommend getting out of dodge. I would GLADLY make the call to Mayflower myself.

 

Having an NFL team in your city is a privilege and not a right, and if you don't do the right thing you deserve to lose your team.

 

It is really that simple

 

Bash away, bashers - I know, I know - spoken like a true non-indy resident.

 

But the truth is still the truth and no owner in his right mind is going to keep his team in a stadium that is chronically half full. Regardless of anything else he will be out of business.

 

ColtsHappy

Yet as I already pointed out , your attendance got worse during the years 1984-1996, so using your thinking of fan abandonment, they should have left for LA. Had Jim Irsay traded away Andrew Luck for a bum back up quarterback , an offensive tackle , and two pre season games , and you had to watch Curtis Painter for a few years, Lucas Oil would be empty like it was that one year. You did abandon them during the Bob Irsay years in Indy, and attendance would have totally dropped had the younger Irsay made the same mistake as the father. Baltimore's attendance mirrored Indy in the down Irsay years, but you always ignore the sell out Baltimore years, when we set the standard for attendance in a fledging NFL

[ColtsHappy]

Yet as I already pointed out , your attendance got worse during the years 1984-1996, so using your thinking of fan abandonment, they should have left for LA. Had Jim Irsay traded away Andrew Luck for a bum back up quarterback , an offensive tackle , and two pre season games , and you had to watch Curtis Painter for a few years, Lucas Oil would be empty like it was that one year. You did abandon them during the Bob Irsay years in Indy, and attendance would have totally dropped had the younger Irsay made the same mistake as the father. Baltimore's attendance mirrored Indy in the down Irsay years, but you always ignore the sell out Baltimore years, when we set the standard for attendance in a fledging NFL

Might I point out that it is a completely different issue when moving to a new city. Football is a business. Every city needs a number of years to grow and get acclimated to the situation and the team. It was obviously growing pains with the Colts in their new Indy home.

 

Apples and oranges being in the same city for years and years and years and then being abandoned by the fans. Totally apples and oranges.

 

Football is a business, if the fans are not coming to the stadium the owner BETTER be smart enough to find a fresh start somewhere else or he is dead in the water.

 

ColtsHappy

[The Old Crow]

Might I point out that it is a completely different issue when moving to a new city. Football is a business. Every city needs a number of years to grow and get acclimated to the situation and the team. It was obviously growing pains with the Colts in their new Indy home.

 

Apples and oranges being in the same city for years and years and years and then being abandoned by the fans. Totally apples and oranges.

 

Football is a business, if the fans are not coming to the stadium the owner BETTER be smart enough to find a fresh start somewhere else or he is dead in the water.

 

ColtsHappy

That is why your argument is dead in the water. When a city like Indy gets a new team like the Colts, you expect a Honeymoon period, and attendance to be better, even if the team is bad. Baltimore had one of the best records in the NFL in terms of both wins and losses , and attendance from 58-71. Even the last six incompetent years of Bob Irsay, they still averaged 43,000, and had they gotten Elway and gave the fans some hope, rather than drunken gambler Art Schlitchter, fans would have filled the stadium again like you guys did with Manning and Luck.

Now your business argument is much stronger. You guys rightly surmised you had better build the Irsay's LOS, or bye bye to LA. You learned that from Baltimore.

[jvan1973]

That is why your argument is dead in the water. When a city like Indy gets a new team like the Colts, you expect a Honeymoon period, and attendance to be better, even if the team is bad. Baltimore had one of the best records in the NFL in terms of both wins and losses , and attendance from 58-71. Even the last six incompetent years of Bob Irsay, they still averaged 43,000, and had they gotten Elway and gave the fans some hope, rather than drunken gambler Art Schlitchter, fans would have filled the stadium again like you guys did with Manning and Luck.

Now your business argument is much stronger. You guys rightly surmised you had better build the Irsay's LOS, or bye bye to LA. You learned that from Baltimore.

They didn't learn it from Baltimore. It was common sense. The colts weren't the first team to leave a city due to stadium issues.

[The Old Crow]

They didn't learn it from Baltimore. It was common sense. The colts weren't the first team to leave a city due to stadium issues.

Well let's just say it was another example, but it did involve the Irsay's , so you didn't have to read much into it as to what they could possibly do if they had to deal with an antiquated Hoosier Dome. Hats off to you guys for giving the Irsay's probably the most lucrative stadium , naming rights, and merchandizing deals in the NFL. They took an air conditioning business , and turned it into 1.6 billion dollars with hardball business tactics. No one can accuse Indianapolis political leaders of not doing what it takes to either get a team , or retain a team.