Eagles fielding offers for Desean Jackson. Pats and 49ers interested. Looking for a 3rd round pick.

[IndyTrav]

TY does more then DJax

 

 

hence the 2.0

 

No he doesnt......

 

Deseans 1st 2 years annihilate TY in every way. And he did it with McNabb/Kolb/Vick....

 

TY had 182 total touches for 2,438yds and 13TDs

DJ had 231 total touches for 3,182yds and 16TDs

[Dustin]

No he doesnt......

Deseans 1st 2 years annihilate TY in every way. And he did it with McNabb/Kolb/Vick....

TY had 182 total touches for 2,438yds and 13TDs

DJ had 231 total touches for 3,182yds and 16TDs

He said that TY does more, not that he produced more.

[jvan1973]

He said that TY does more, not that he produced more.

ty hasnt been the feature guy yet either. I take TY al day over Jackson and his attitude

[amfootball]

He said that TY does more, not that he produced more.

I like TY a lot. Do you guys use him as a punt or kick returner at all? I like Jackson's STs play as well as his speed as a receiver.

[Dustin]

I like TY a lot. Do you guys use him as a punt or kick returner at all? I like Jackson's STs play as well as his speed as a receiver.

 

He was our PR last year and about half-way through this year, but once Reggie got hurt we took him off because we couldn't risk our only other receiver getting injured. Not sure what the plans are this season. 

[Danfish98]

I like TY a lot. Do you guys use him as a punt or kick returner at all? I like Jackson's STs play as well as his speed as a receiver.

Since this question has been answered seriously already I'll give the real answer.  We're the Colts.  What's a returner?

[Fx Stryker]

The defense is set. They already spent on that. They have 9 but another 4 will come if they either restructure or cut Wilfork which will happen at some point soon. And their top need besides corner was outside WR so they have to spend there. I would think a trade would be contingent on Jackson restructuring to make his cap hit more friendly.

 

The only way the Patriots get DeSean is cutting Wilfork. They need at least an extra $8M in space. Which would put them at $17M, but the  Edleman deal isn't accounted for in the $9M space I seen yesterday. So it would be less that $17M. Using $13M on DeSean. So you have less than $4M for draft picks and emergency cap space.

 

It's just not logical, but the front seven could use improvement first instead of a one dimensional WR. And let's be honest Brady's deep ball is on the decline, and that is all DJax is useful for.

[amfootball]

The only way the Patriots get DeSean is cutting Wilfork. They need at least an extra $8M in space. Which would put them at $17M, but the  Edleman deal isn't accounted for in the $9M space I seen yesterday. So it would be less that $17M. Using $13M on DeSean. So you have less than $4M for draft picks and emergency cap space.

 

It's just not logical, but the front seven could use improvement first instead of a one dimensional WR. And let's be honest Brady's deep ball is on the decline, and that is all DJax is useful for.

If they cut Wilfork they still take a 4mil dead cap hit. Better to restructure and help the cap that way if Wilfork is amenable. I agree that DeSean's contract is an issue but his talent is not. It is his type of speed on the outside that the Pats have been missing. In terms of Brady's long ball, he has not had a chance to throw it much the last couple of years given the Pats have had no deep threat on the outside. I would expect him to get back in the groove with a legit threat out there but also that type of talent on the outside will also open the underneath more not to mention Gronk. I really don't see the deal happening unless Jackson agrees to restructure. I can see the Pats wanting to add a couple of years on as an extension to spread the money out but not sure Jackson would agree to that. He fought really hard to get his money from the Eagles.

 

I would rather see the Pats pay big for a receiver on the outside then to try to get another TE to replace Hernandez. I am done with this TE approach. I want the outside guy. Have been saying this since Moss left.

[IndyTrav]

He said that TY does more, not that he produced more.

 

Please enlighten me as to how TY 'does more'.......Oh thats right, he's a Colt, that means he's just more important....

 

 

TY didn't "do more" in there comparative years....Desean did based on amount of touches received in 3 different offensive scenarios (rec/rush/st), touching the ball 49 more times...... 

 

How about this year? Looks like TY saw 803 offensive snaps, 71% of the teams offense...Desean was in on 987 offensive snaps, or 89% of the teams offense..... 

[Dustin]

Please enlighten me as to how TY 'does more'.

 

TY lines up at X, Y, and Z receiver about equally. Desean basically stays on one side of the field and goes in motion rarely. TY goes in motion about 33% of the time in the field. 

 

TY lines up in the slot more which requires him to work the middle of the field where there is very little space. Where as Jackson pretty much exclusively lines up out wide (Jackson probably played ~15% of the time in the slot; TY close to 30%)

 

He was also asked to run the entire route-tree when Reggie went down, no route was off limits for him, and Jackson has never been as good a route-runner as TY and as a result has has basically only been allowed to run a few routes his entire career (tho he was better at it this year, so let's give him credit where it's due. 

 

So yeah TY was asked to do more than Jackson does. Those are nice numbers you have tho. 

[Shane Bond]

Since this question has been answered seriously already I'll give the real answer.  We're the Colts.  What's a returner?

Thats funny, bro.

[IndyTrav]

TY lines up at X, Y, and Z receiver about equally. Desean basically stays on one side of the field and goes in motion rarely. TY goes in motion about 33% of the time in the field. 

 

TY lines up in the slot more which requires him to work the middle of the field where there is very little space. Where as Jackson pretty much exclusively lines up out wide (Jackson probably played ~15% of the time in the slot; TY close to 30%)

 

He was also asked to run the entire route-tree when Reggie went down, no route was off limits for him, and Jackson has never been as good a route-runner as TY and as a result has has basically only been allowed to run a few routes his entire career (tho he was better at it this year, so let's give him credit where it's due. 

 

So yeah TY was asked to do more than Jackson does. Those are nice numbers you have tho. 

 

Really? I'd like to see where your getting your numbers from. 

 

I wouldn't disagree that Desean, in the past, wasn't a world class WR, but he has flourished in the option routes of the Chip Kelly offense....Then again, perhaps hes not asked to do much, considering PHI has had terrible QB play, and seem to throw to RBs 250+x a season.... 

 

The fact of the matter is Desean does more, because he is on the field more, and plays different positions more. Pretty simple....Saying TY runs a better route tree, and making up #'s about WR positioning, while completely ignoring Deseans very real impact of playing no less than 4 positions with somewhat regularity is a bit of a stretch. 

 

But go ahead, keep ignoring all those things in order to prop up a Colt player....

[Dustin]

Really? I'd like to see where your getting your numbers from. 

 

Watching the games. Rough estimations. Feel free to count them up if you wish and report back to me how accurate I was. 

 

 

 

The fact of the matter is Desean does more

 

But that's not true. 

[Jay Kirk]

No Thanks

[Dustin]

lol wait 4 positions?

 

WR, PR, ?,?

 

He's not a KR and not a runner. Have you actually ever seen DJax play? I know you're not suggesting that him taking a couple end arounds a few times a year qualifies him to play RB right? 

[IndyTrav]

 

Watching the games. Rough estimations. Feel free to count them up if you wish and report back to me how accurate I was. 

 

 

 

 

But that's not true. 

 

 

Seriously....You get hard facts, and counter with "Well I watch the games" and "rough estimates" as your counter argument....Makes sense....

 

Heres some more facts for you, and since this year isn't up yet, we will use 2012.

 

Desean: 21% short passes 42% mid passes

TY: 26% short passes  43%mid passes

 

Doesn't seem that TY runs underneath as much as you thought you saw, or you're just ignoring when Desean does it because it doesn't fit your argument. 

[IndyTrav]

lol wait 4 positions?

 

WR, PR, ?,?

 

He's not a KR and not a runner. Have you actually ever seen DJax play? I know you're not suggesting that him taking a couple end arounds a few times a year qualifies him to play RB right? 

 

Really? Because he has lined up at all 4 of those positions, several times a year, for his entire career.... Im not suggesting he is a RB, Im saying he is used as one, and lines up as one.....Like Sproles isn't a WR, but he is used as one, same concept....Desean isnt a RB, but he is used as one.   

[Dustin]

Seriously....You get hard facts, and counter with "Well I watch the games" and "rough estimates" as your counter argument....Makes sense....

 

 

"Cold hard facts." You didn't give me any facts that have any bearing in this discussion. Him "playing more snaps" and "having x amount more yards" doesn't mean he was asked to do more. He has more yards because he's a better player and he played more snaps because the coaching staff knows not to play inferior receivers (looking at you DHB) above him. 

 

The facts is his ability to move all over the field and run the entire route-tree can't be shown in numbers so therefore you dismissed it out of hand an chalked it up to me just "making stuff up." Just because things can't be expressed in numbers doesn't mean that they don't happen.

 

 

Desean: 21% short passes 42% mid passes

TY: 26% short passes  43%mid passes

 

Doesn't seem that TY runs underneath as much as you thought you saw, or you're just ignoring when Desean does it because it doesn't fit your argument. 

 

This doesn't mean anything. Not all "short passes" and "mid passes" are created the same and this doesn't account for plays where they don't catch a pass or aren't targeted (not sure if your stat is for just target or just catches, but the point remains the same) To classify a type of route as just "short" or "mid" is a very watered down understanding. I know you know this so I'm not accusing you of being naive and understand that you are trying to find metrics that express your points, but there just isn't one. 

[Dustin]

Really? Because he has lined up at all 4 of those positions, several times a year, for his entire career.... Im not suggesting he is a RB, Im saying he is used as one, and lines up as one.....Like Sproles isn't a WR, but he is used as one, same concept....Desean isnt a RB, but he is used as one.   

 

DJax has 4 KRs in his career and he is never used as a RB. 90% of those are reverses and the other 10% are screen passes that went backwards. 

[GoPats]

Eh, Jackson is supremely talented and has great speed but I'm not sure he's worth the baggage. Very high-maintenance guy. Belichick is buddies with Chip, so... it stands to reason if the Eagles are sick of putting up with him, then Bill's not going to make a move for him unless it was an absolute give-away. And either way you've got to pony up a bunch of cash.

 

I'd pass on this one.

[IndyTrav]

"Cold hard facts." You didn't give me any facts that have any bearing in this discussion. Him "playing more snaps" and "having x amount more yards" doesn't mean he was asked to do more. He has more yards because he's a better player and he played more snaps because the coaching staff knows not to play inferior receivers (looking at you DHB) above him. 

 

The facts is his ability to move all over the field and run the entire route-tree can't be shown in numbers so therefore you dismissed it out of hand an chalked it up to me just "making stuff up." Just because things can't be expressed in numbers doesn't mean that they don't happen.

 

 

 

This doesn't mean anything. Not all "short passes" and "mid passes" are created the same and this doesn't account for plays where they don't catch a pass or aren't targeted (not sure if your stat is for just target or just catches, but the point remains the same) To classify a type of route as just "short" or "mid" is a very watered down understanding. I know you know this so I'm not accusing you of being naive and understand that you are trying to find metrics that express your points, but there just isn't one. 

 

No, I dismissed it because your familiarity with TY far exceeds your familiarity with Desean....The only way to truly and accurately portray "does more" is by watching them both equally... Can you honestly say you watch a fraction of what Desean does, in comparison to the probable 99.9% of TY that you witness?

 

You and I would be what I consider bias. The only thing we can truly do to compare the 2, is by numbers. If we watched both players equally, our assessment would be more valid. However, we dont, therefore I presented the only solid, concrete evidence available. And it shows that Desean does more everything, rec, yards, tds, rushs,pr, kr etc. 

 

Your argument was based on "well TY does more switching between X,Y,Z, and runs more routes".....With that logic Havili "does more" than Brown, because Havili in the 300 less plays ran 2 more different types of routes, and lined up at FB AND RB, and also blocked.....but no one would reasonably say that Havili did more for this team than what Brown did last year. 

 

 

Maybe we are simply in disagreement with the term "does more" and the semantics it implies....But I think we both agree that Desean had a better first 2 years, and is currently a better player than TY?

[dgambill]

Patriots have $9M in cap space, and DeSean has 3 years left on his contract with a $13M hit this year. If they want to spend the money on offense go ahead. But your defense will greatly suffer.

I imagine they cut Amendola if they were to try to get this deal to go through...I still think Oakland would be a likely scenerio because they have the money and the need.

[jvan1973]

Really? Because he has lined up at all 4 of those positions, several times a year, for his entire career.... Im not suggesting he is a RB, Im saying he is used as one, and lines up as one.....Like Sproles isn't a WR, but he is used as one, same concept....Desean isnt a RB, but he is used as one.

he has returned five kickoffs in his career. He returned 14 punts last year, and ran the ball 3 times

[IndyTrav]

he has returned five kickoffs in his career. He returned 14 punts last year, and ran the ball 3 times

 

Indeed he did. Thats what happen as players of his nature get older, they receive less opportunities. Which is precisley what is going to happen to TY. Same way it happened to Steve Smith.

 

And even then, Desean was apart of 8% of ST plays, while TY was apart of 9%....All while being the #1 option at WR, where as TY wasn't until after the Den game. 

[SLILLINGTON10]

No he doesnt......

 

Deseans 1st 2 years annihilate TY in every way. And he did it with McNabb/Kolb/Vick....

 

TY had 182 total touches for 2,438yds and 13TDs

DJ had 231 total touches for 3,182yds and 16TDs

DJax was also pretty much the number one option were as TY has been the number two option until week 8 of last season.

[wig]

DeSean is far too much of a headcase.

No, thanks.

I read that he's too small for Chip Kelly's offense.

I can confidently say that it's because he won't do what is asked if him, not size.

[amfootball]

I imagine they cut Amendola if they were to try to get this deal to go through...I still think Oakland would be a likely scenerio because they have the money and the need.

It will cost the Pats more against the cap to cut Amendola then to keep him.

[TAPLOOK]

Hello Desean good bye Vince.

[dgambill]

It will cost the Pats more against the cap to cut Amendola then to keep him.

Your right...if they cut him before March 11th there would have been some savings but he is now fully guaranteed. Perhaps they make a trade...or do a 3 team trade. At this point the WR core is pretty set..DJAX really would over crowd it. All in all I don't know why Philly would trade him to a contender or an NFC team...why face him or make your competition better....send him out to Oakland. No way he ends up in SF.