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Colts Free Agency thread

TKnight24

By TKnight24
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Superman Ring of Honor

Superman

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On a six year deal?  Sure.

 

Year 1 - $5M P5 Salary - $15M Roster Bonus

Year 2 - $5M P5 Salary - $5M Roster Bonus

Year 3 - $5M P5 Salary

Year 4 - $5M P5 Salary

Year 5 - $5M P5 Salary

Year 6 - $5M P5 Salary

 

Guarantee the first year of salary and the two roster bonuses.  That's $25M guaranteed.  This is a 6 year, $50M contract with an APY of $8.3M.  You can cut him after the first year and save $5M in cap space.  The guaranteed money sunsets after 2015, which is in time for Luck's big extension to kick in.  It puts him as the highest paid Center in the league in multiple important categories and depending on how much Cleveland's spent already, it makes it difficult for them to match.

 

Guaranteed Money - $25M

Guaranteed Money per Year - $4.166M

APY - $8.3M

 

Current High for Guaranteed Money - Ryan Kalil ($19M);

Current High for Guaranteed Money Per Year - Eric Wood ($3.637M);

Current High for Highest APY - Ryan Kalil ($8.186M).

 

That's my pitch.

 

You can't guarantee that Year 2 roster bonus. But you can guarantee the Year 2 and Year 3 salary, which all but guarantees the Year 2 roster bonus, for all intents and purposes. If you do that, it's technically $35m guaranteed.

 

But I don't know if you'd get away with that. If Mack and his agent grab the money upfront, which I guess they probably would, he'd probably come looking for a raise in Year 3.

 

Personally, I don't think I'd do that deal anyways. Too much money in the first two years, for a center. Yes, it would fix our hole in the middle of the line, but it's way overboard, financially. I'd sooner give EDS the $8m/year on a more balanced deal.

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bavanlan Walk On

bavanlan

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You can't guarantee that Year 2 roster bonus. But you can guarantee the Year 2 and Year 3 salary, which all but guarantees the Year 2 roster bonus, for all intents and purposes. If you do that, it's technically $35m guaranteed.

 

But I don't know if you'd get away with that. If Mack and his agent grab the money upfront, which I guess they probably would, he'd probably come looking for a raise in Year 3.

 

Personally, I don't think I'd do that deal anyways. Too much money in the first two years, for a center. Yes, it would fix our hole in the middle of the line, but it's way overboard, financially. I'd sooner give EDS the $8m/year on a more balanced deal.

 

He can look all he wants, but he and his agent would clearly understand that those roster bonuses are simply signing bonuses accounted for in a single year.  With the right player and agent, I don't think there would be much of an issue there.

 

I'd rather pay for talent early rather than trying to pay $8M per year for a center AND Luck's $18-$20M APY extension at the same time.

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Superman Ring of Honor

Superman

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He can look all he wants, but he and his agent would clearly understand that those roster bonuses are simply signing bonuses accounted for in a single year.  With the right player and agent, I don't think there would be much of an issue there.

 

I'd rather pay for talent early rather than trying to pay $8M per year for a center AND Luck's $18-$20M APY extension at the same time.

 

As the cap goes up, I don't think $8m/year for a center will be a problem. 

 

The frontloaded nature of that proposal is preferable, but it's very risky if the player gets hurt, if his performance declines, etc. If you work no-holdout provisions in (in the form of future reporting bonuses and so on), then maybe you can keep the player in check. But it's still an extreme option, when there are other more reasonable options available still. 

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bavanlan Walk On

bavanlan

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As the cap goes up, I don't think $8m/year for a center will be a problem. 

 

The frontloaded nature of that proposal is preferable, but it's very risky if the player gets hurt, if his performance declines, etc. If you work no-holdout provisions in (in the form of future reporting bonuses and so on), then maybe you can keep the player in check. But it's still an extreme option, when there are other more reasonable options available still. 

 

The frontloaded contract is no different than a signing bonus in terms of risk.

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Superman

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The frontloaded contract is no different than a signing bonus in terms of risk.

 

Technically, no. But you don't usually do a $20-30m signing bonus for a $50m player. When it does happen, it's usually not a great deal for the team, unless it's a quarterback or a great pass rusher.

 

I agree with you on the structure, just think it's a bit extreme. Maybe if it were $15m in Year 1, and $7.5m in Year 2. But $20m and $10m is tough.

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bavanlan Walk On

bavanlan

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Technically, no. But you don't usually do a $20-30m signing bonus for a $50m player. When it does happen, it's usually not a great deal for the team, unless it's a quarterback or a great pass rusher.

 

I agree with you on the structure, just think it's a bit extreme. Maybe if it were $15m in Year 1, and $7.5m in Year 2. But $20m and $10m is tough.

 

It's $20M on a $50M contract.  The agent can brag about the guaranteed first year salary, but really, every first year salary on a contract like this is guaranteed (you're not cutting the guy, lol.)  A 40% SB is perfectly reasonable, which is basically what this is.

 

I also want to take the position that the $15M roster bonus couldn't be converted and renegotiated into a signing bonus after the Browns have turned down the offer sheet, but I can't find anything in the CBA to support that.

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Superman

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It's $20M on a $50M contract.  The agent can brag about the guaranteed first year salary, but really, every first year salary on a contract like this is guaranteed (you're not cutting the guy, lol.)  A 40% SB is perfectly reasonable, which is basically what this is.

 

I also want to take the position that the $15M roster bonus couldn't be converted and renegotiated into a signing bonus after the Browns have turned down the offer sheet, but I can't find anything in the CBA to support that.

 

I think it could be, and that's a good point. I just looked at that part of the CBA the other day, and I believe you can do the first renegotiation whenever you want. But you have to wait 12 months to do a second renegotiation.

 

So you could convert the structure to a more practical format later in the offseason. Still would have a lot of guaranteed money, but wouldn't have to be sooo frontloaded.

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bavanlan Walk On

bavanlan

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I think it could be, and that's a good point. I just looked at that part of the CBA the other day, and I believe you can do the first renegotiation whenever you want. But you have to wait 12 months to do a second renegotiation.

 

So you could convert the structure to a more practical format later in the offseason. Still would have a lot of guaranteed money, but wouldn't have to be sooo frontloaded.

 

Yeah, we were having that conversation the other day.

 

Here's the relevant section:

 

Section 8. Renegotiations and Extensions:

(a) Provided that all Salary Cap requirements are met, Player Contracts for current and future years may be renegotiated and/ or extended except as follows:

(i) The contract of a Veteran Player may not be renegotiated to increase the Salary to be paid to the player during the original terms of the contract for a period of twelve months after the player's most recent contract renegotiation. The first renegotiation of a Veteran Player Contract, however, may take place at any time.

 

You're not increasing the salary over the original terms (it's the same amount over the same years).  It's also the first renegotiation.

 

If both of those bonuses get converted, you'd have yearly salaries like:

 

Year 1 - $8M

Year 2 - $9M

Year 3 - $9M

Year 4 - $9M

Year 5 - $9M

Year 6 - $6M

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Superman

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Yeah, we were having that conversation the other day.

 

Here's the relevant section:

 

Section 8. Renegotiations and Extensions:

(a) Provided that all Salary Cap requirements are met, Player Contracts for current and future years may be renegotiated and/ or extended except as follows:

(i) The contract of a Veteran Player may not be renegotiated to increase the Salary to be paid to the player during the original terms of the contract for a period of twelve months after the player's most recent contract renegotiation. The first renegotiation of a Veteran Player Contract, however, may take place at any time.

 

You're not increasing the salary over the original terms (it's the same amount over the same years).  It's also the first renegotiation.

 

If both of those bonuses get converted, you'd have yearly salaries like:

 

Year 1 - $8M

Year 2 - $9M

Year 3 - $9M

Year 4 - $9M

Year 5 - $9M

Year 6 - $6M

 

Yeah, I'm with you there.

 

In the same vein, though, the Browns could match any offer sheet, presumably, and restructure the deal in the same way.

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bavanlan Walk On

bavanlan

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Yeah, I'm with you there.

 

In the same vein, though, the Browns could match any offer sheet, presumably, and restructure the deal in the same way.

 

Mack would have to agree to it for the Browns to restructure.  If he doesn't want to be there, he'd have all the leverage in the world to force them to refuse to match.

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Mack would have to agree to it for the Browns to restructure.  If he doesn't want to be there, he'd have all the leverage in the world to force them to refuse to match.

 

True. Assuming he doesn't want to be there. He seemed ... diplomatic, at least, in his most recent interview. But hearing his agent suggest they could draft a contract the Browns wouldn't want to match gets the wheels turning. Could just be trying to convince teams to come take a seat at the table, but it could also be an indication that Mack would prefer to leave. And that's what everyone thought before they made front office changes anyways.

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bavanlan Walk On

bavanlan

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True. Assuming he doesn't want to be there. He seemed ... diplomatic, at least, in his most recent interview. But hearing his agent suggest they could draft a contract the Browns wouldn't want to match gets the wheels turning. Could just be trying to convince teams to come take a seat at the table, but it could also be an indication that Mack would prefer to leave. And that's what everyone thought before they made front office changes anyways.

 

Welp, solved that problem.

 

You want to talk to Grigson in the morning or shall I do it?

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bababooey

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Does anyone have some good twitter feeds to follow all the latest goings on for when things get up and running today?

 

@AdamSchefter

@ProFootballTalk

@incarceratedbob

 

There are several other ESPN beat writers that cover specific teams - does anyone have the twitter for the Colts?

 

Saw Decker is visiting the Jets today - I saw on twitter he had a better year with Tim Tebow as his QB than any Jet receiver had this year with Geno last year. Does anyone else think we should try to make a deal with Edelman? Would also love a "prove it" contract for Nicks.

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BrentMc11

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@AdamSchefter

@ProFootballTalk

@incarceratedbob

 

There are several other ESPN beat writers that cover specific teams - does anyone have the twitter for the Colts?

 

Saw Decker is visiting the Jets today - I saw on twitter he had a better year with Tim Tebow as his QB than any Jet receiver had this year with Geno last year. Does anyone else think we should try to make a deal with Edelman? Would also love a "prove it" contract for Nicks.

I feel that Nicks will sign with Carolina.  they are thin at WR

 

I like Edelman...I just do not see him here.

 

Decker is insane if he goes to the Jets....Just an old Linebacker's opinion!

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CopenhagenColt

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What type of input does Pagano and the rest of the coaching staff have in Grigson's decisions?

 

Hard to tell for sure, but it would be a surprise to me if they didn't work closely together. After all Pagano and the coaching staff see the players on a daily basis, plot their progress and work and they probably have strong feelings about what they feel the team needs and what they expect some from some of the younger players.

If we imagine that Pagano and the coaching staff think that our current crop of WRs is up to the task, it would surprise me if Grigson went out and threw big $$ after a player like Nicks or Decker. On the other hand, if they're not convinced that the current selection of WRs will cut it, and need a proven player, I'm sure that Grigson will have known this for some tme and take their concerns and opinions into consideration.

It would be a big surprise to me if Pagano wasn't in on the signing of Arthur Jones.

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bababooey

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Edelman meeting with Cleveland, Decker signed with the Jets, and heard Nicks may go to Carolina. Wish we would grab one veteran receiver. Also heard Steve Smith may meet with Denver but the same source also said Denver was eyeing Sproles as well.

 

Any updates on center?

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NewColtsFan

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Technically, no. But you don't usually do a $20-30m signing bonus for a $50m player. When it does happen, it's usually not a great deal for the team, unless it's a quarterback or a great pass rusher.

 

I agree with you on the structure, just think it's a bit extreme. Maybe if it were $15m in Year 1, and $7.5m in Year 2. But $20m and $10m is tough.

 

You don't?     Really?

 

We just did a $39 Mill deal with Davis and $20 Mill was guaranteed.

 

I've heard Ware's deal with Denver is $30 Mill with $20 Mill guaranteed.

 

If we did a $50 Mill deal with Mack,  I'd actually expect the signing bonus to be in the range of $25 Mill. 

 

Where it could get weird is guaranteeing more than that.     That's where you comments about Mack being a center and the potential for getting hurt come sharply into focus.

 

Good discussion.....

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Superman

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You don't?     Really?

 

We just did a $39 Mill deal with Davis and $20 Mill was guaranteed.

 

I've heard Ware's deal with Denver is $30 Mill with $20 Mill guaranteed.

 

If we did a $50 Mill deal with Mack,  I'd actually expect the signing bonus to be in the range of $25 Mill. 

 

Where it could get weird is guaranteeing more than that.     That's where you comments about Mack being a center and the potential for getting hurt come sharply into focus.

 

Good discussion.....

 

I haven't seen details on Davis' contract, but I'm pretty sure it's not a $20m signing bonus. There's a difference between guaranteed money, which can take multiple forms, and a signing bonus.

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