Brady = MJ according to Skip Bayless

[21isSuperman]

Yep. And that's why I think BB should win coach of the year.

You could make a strong case for him, but Brady deserves his fair share of the credit

[BOTT]

I made it nearly 40% through that before stopping because of feeling physically ill.

 

Just complete and utter :cuss: .

 

By the way, I think that "clutchness" in basketball is vastly over-appreciated. Jordon spent his entire career making crazy one-on-one moves and heaving the ball at the basket. He did it at the end of games, but he also did it at the beginning of games and at every point in the middle of games. Jordan was just better at creating his own shots regardless of the time on the clock . That doesn't make him more "clutch", it's just indicative of the fact that he was an incredibly consistent scorer who was allowed an incredible number of opportunities. I doubt very much that his shooting percentage was higher on the final shot than any other, and even if it was then the logical statement should be "why doesn't he shoot that way the rest of the game", not "wow, he really comes through in the clutch".

 

One of the things that makes modern basketball FAR and away the most tedious of off the five major sports, is that there is NO shortage of people willing to heave up the ball at every opportunity. There is little in the way of team play, and comparing Jordan heaving a little ball at a basket to anything that ANY quarterback does is largely nonsensical.

The ability to shoot the ball in the closing minutes of a tight game like he shot in the 1st quarter is exactly what made Jordan clutch.

[supremecoltsfan300]

Brady's been good but Skip said today this was Brady's greatest season ever, which is ridiculous. Every team deals with their own share of issues. He's played well of late, but early on he was just awful. To excuse it by saying he was working with guys who drop the ball, has a bad defense, and doesn't have gronk...both the pats and broncos have the same number of drops, Brady's D was great early on and it has tailed off a bit but it's still a top 12 D, and most teams have O weapons go down. Rodgers lost some of his wrs, and peyton has had Julius and welker miss time too (as well in game injuries for Demaryius). Brady has the luxary of having the best coach in the NFL. The last few years have been great by Brady but this year has been far from outstanding. The pats still might not make the playoffs.

[amfootball]

Brady's been good but Skip said today this was Brady's greatest season ever, which is ridiculous. Every team deals with their own share of issues. He's played well of late, but early on he was just awful. To excuse it by saying he was working with guys who drop the ball, has a bad defense, and doesn't have gronk...both the pats and broncos have the same number of drops, Brady's D was great early on and it has tailed off a bit but it's still a top 12 D, and most teams have O weapons go down. Rodgers lost some of his wrs, and peyton has had Julius and welker miss time too (as well in game injuries for Demaryius). Brady has the luxary of having the best coach in the NFL. The last few years have been great by Brady but this year has been far from outstanding. The pats still might not make the playoffs.

Skip was focusing on the 5 comebacks which leads the league and the most of his career in any one season and the other potential comebacks that fell just short.

[GoPats]

I don't agree 100% with everything Bayless wrote, but I do think he's correct in that the disdain toward Brady and the Patriots in general is indeed at an all time high. People don't like seeing the same teams win for 13 years. They've gone from the consummate underdog in the SB against the Rams to the juggernaut that everyone wants to see taken down. 

 

Belichick's warm and fuzzy personality probably doesn't help matters either.  ;)

 

Got me thinking... would the 49ers of the 80s or the Cowboys of the early 90s have been this hated if Internet message boards existed back in those days? I know I personally didn't really have anything against SF, but I couldn't stand those Dallas teams. I think New England has been the target of a lot of animosity in part because they're the closest thing we've seen to an NFL dynasty in the Internet era. 

[Shane Bond]

Not only did the Cowboys of 90s and SFs of 80s didn't have internet, they didn't have video cameras too. Perhaps that latter part could very well explain one of the reasons of disdain.

[BOTT]

I don't agree 100% with everything Bayless wrote, but I do think he's correct in that the disdain toward Brady and the Patriots in general is indeed at an all time high. People don't like seeing the same teams win for 13 years. They've gone from the consummate underdog in the SB against the Rams to the juggernaut that everyone wants to see taken down. 

 

Belichick's warm and fuzzy personality probably doesn't help matters either.  ;)

 

Got me thinking... would the 49ers of the 80s or the Cowboys of the early 90s have been this hated if Internet message boards existed back in those days? I know I personally didn't really have anything against SF, but I couldn't stand those Dallas teams. I think New England has been the target of a lot of animosity in part because they're the closest thing we've seen to an NFL dynasty in the Internet era.

I dunno, the Cowboys were pretty hated...I couldn't imagine if that team existed today.

[Gavin]

I almost read it....then I realized who wrote it

[buffalo34]

I don't agree 100% with everything Bayless wrote, but I do think he's correct in that the disdain toward Brady and the Patriots in general is indeed at an all time high. People don't like seeing the same teams win for 13 years. They've gone from the consummate underdog in the SB against the Rams to the juggernaut that everyone wants to see taken down. 

 

Belichick's warm and fuzzy personality probably doesn't help matters either.  ;)

 

Got me thinking... would the 49ers of the 80s or the Cowboys of the early 90s have been this hated if Internet message boards existed back in those days? I know I personally didn't really have anything against SF, but I couldn't stand those Dallas teams. I think New England has been the target of a lot of animosity in part because they're the closest thing we've seen to an NFL dynasty in the Internet era. 

 

I don't know, how did the media treat the 49ers of the 80s? With the Cowboys, even to this day, you have to put up with that "AMERICA'S TEAM" and "HOW BOUT DEM COWBOYS" crap. Gives you that "you're either with us or against us" attitude. That and we still need to hear how awesome the Cowboys are when they haven't been relevant in the playoffs for almost two decades. I imagine if these boards existed during the Dallas dynasty, you'd likely see a ton of hate towards them (me especially).

 

That and having a *bleep*-ton of bandwagon fans probably didn't help Dallas's cause.

 

I've kind of warmed up to Belichick in a mutual way though. He's like me in the sense that I give out 1 word answers constantly.

[GoPats]

I dunno, the Cowboys were pretty hated...I couldn't imagine if that team existed today.

 

I agree, they had a special brand of overconfidence. I don't remember anyone really having any issues with the 49ers. Back in those days the Patriots were awful so I half-rooted for Elway and the Broncos... I wasn't too fond of the 49ers after the beat-down in the SB that one year.

 

As a New Englander I'm also a Sox fan, and would compare the hatred of the Patriots more closely to the hatred of the Yankees. Of course the Pats haven't won 26 (or is it 27?) Super Bowls, but... same kind of thing, I think.

[GoPats]

I don't know, how did the media treat the 49ers of the 80s? With the Cowboys, even to this day, you have to put up with that "AMERICA'S TEAM" and "HOW BOUT DEM COWBOYS" crap. Gives you that "you're either with us or against us" attitude. That and we still need to hear how awesome the Cowboys are when they haven't been relevant in the playoffs for almost two decades. I imagine if these boards existed during the Dallas dynasty, you'd likely see a ton of hate towards them (me especially).

 

That and having a *bleep*-ton of bandwagon fans probably didn't help Dallas's cause.

 

I've kind of warmed up to Belichick in a mutual way though. He's like me in the sense that I give out 1 word answers constantly.

 

You know, it's kind of funny... most people from other NFL fan bases complain all the time about the media. But then they hate on Belichick for how he treats reporters, lol...

 

I'm not even sure what the media perception was when it came to the 49ers. Even the four-letter-network was pretty unknown back in those days. I think, for the most part, they weren't really detested by other fan bases. Maybe just the ones whose teams lost to them, I don't really know. The Patriots were pretty irrelevant back then.

[buffalo34]

I agree, they had a special brand of overconfidence. I don't remember anyone really having any issues with the 49ers. Back in those days the Patriots were awful so I half-rooted for Elway and the Broncos... I wasn't too fond of the 49ers after the beat-down in the SB that one year.

 

As a New Englander I'm also a Sox fan, and would compare the hatred of the Patriots more closely to the hatred of the Yankees. Of course the Pats haven't won 26 (or is it 27?) Super Bowls, but... same kind of thing, I think.

 

It's 27 now, thanks to 2009. Really wish the Yankees didn't win that WS in particular, because A-Rod has a ring now because of it.

[buffalo34]

You know, it's kind of funny... most people from other NFL fan bases complain all the time about the media. But then they hate on Belichick for how he treats reporters, lol...

 

I'm not even sure what the media perception was when it came to the 49ers. Even the four-letter-network was pretty unknown back in those days. I think, for the most part, they weren't really detested by other fan bases. Maybe just the ones whose teams lost to them, I don't really know. The Patriots were pretty irrelevant back then.

 

And I also remember reading on Twitter once how awesome it would be if Belichick ever became a White House Press Secretary....it'd be very entertaining, to say the least.

 

Believe me, if I had to play 20 questions with the media about what Tom Brady eats for a morning routine (and how many bites it takes on average to eat said food) and why he hit the snooze button 3 years, 20 days, 4 hours, 1 minute, and 17 seconds ago and why he had his shoes in the wrong order on the floor beneath him (so he can't instantly put the shoes on when rolling out of bed), I'd start hating the media too.

[House]

There is only one MJ.

[amfootball]

And there is only one Brady. :thmsup:

[jvan1973]

And there is only one Brady. :thmsup:

Nobody in the nfl, now or in the history, has ever been on MJ's level.

[southwest1]

My biggest pet peeve with so many ESPN anchors/TV hosts is that they love to combine sports genres that have nothing to do with 1 another. Clutchness in basketball is not the same thing as clutchness in football. What's next? Dale Earnhardt, Jr.'s competitiveness is going to be weighed against that of Andre Agassi's? LOL! 

 

I agree with Jvan1973, BOTT, & Mac. How does anyone make similar comparisons to athletes in vastly different sports with no parallels whatsoever? It ludicrous and the dumbest thing Skip Bayless has ever said & coming from Skip that speak volumes IMO. 

[amfootball]

Nobody in the nfl, now or in the history, has ever been on MJ's level.

Really. Um, Russell? I think he is ahead of MJ in his own sport. Minus the gambling of course.

 

Brady is the closest football version of MJ.

[jvan1973]

Really. Um, Russell? I think he is ahead of MJ in his own sport. Minus the gambling of course.

Brady is the closest football version of MJ.

If you're basing it on championships, then Joe Cool and Bradshaw are the closest.

I'm talking about off the field of play. Jordan is his own brand. Nobody in the nfl can claim that

[jvan1973]

My biggest pet peeve with so many ESPN anchors/TV hosts is that they love to combine sports genres that have nothing to do with 1 another. Clutchness in basketball is not the same thing as clutchness in football. What's next? Dale Earnhardt, Jr.'s competitiveness is going to be weighed against that of Andre Agassi's? LOL!

I agree with Jvan1973, BOTT, & Mac. How does anyone make similar comparisons to athletes in vastly different sports with no parallels whatsoever? It ludicrous and the dumbest thing Skip Bayless has ever said & coming from Skip that speak volumes IMO.

I hear dale jr has a mean backhand

[amfootball]

If you're basing it on championships, then Joe Cool and Bradshaw are the closest.

I'm talking about off the field of play. Jordan is his own brand. Nobody in the nfl can claim that

Championships? Hardly. Go wiki Russell and tell me all he has is his rings on his resume. And MJ did not have anyone close to Chamberlain as a rival.

 

I will give you Jordan as a brand but that is more of factor of the era he played where athletes could be a brand. But Brady is the closest in terms of rings, stats, winning, clutch performance, competitiveness to MJ. Pretty much what Skip said in his article.

[jvan1973]

Championships? Hardly. Go wiki Russell and tell me all he has is his rings on his resume. And MJ did not have anyone close to Chamberlain as a rival.

I will give you Jordan as a brand but that is more of factor of the era he played where athletes could be a brand. But Brady is the closest in terms of rings, stats, winning, clutch performance, competitiveness to MJ. Pretty much what Skip said in his article.

Who else in jordans era had branding anywhere near Jordan? That branding is still strong now, and he hasn't played in over a decade.

[amfootball]

Who else in jordans era had branding anywhere near Jordan? That branding is still strong now, and he hasn't played in over a decade.

I gave you brand but that was not the crux of the debate.

[amfootball]

My biggest pet peeve with so many ESPN anchors/TV hosts is that they love to combine sports genres that have nothing to do with 1 another. Clutchness in basketball is not the same thing as clutchness in football. What's next? Dale Earnhardt, Jr.'s competitiveness is going to be weighed against that of Andre Agassi's? LOL! 

 

I agree with Jvan1973, BOTT, & Mac. How does anyone make similar comparisons to athletes in vastly different sports with no parallels whatsoever? It ludicrous and the dumbest thing Skip Bayless has ever said & coming from Skip that speak volumes IMO. 

You lost me on this one SW1 and that is rare. ;)  Athletes across all sports get compared all the time. Not sure why that irks you. There is a commonality of competition, playing your best in the big moments, being a leader, and winning. Bayless didn't say hitting a jump shot was the same as throwing a TD pass but what he is saying is coming up big in the moment is a trait of the two players and their fierce competitiveness drove their careers and success that they enjoyed.

[Superman]

are you serious? . . . come on now Supes you are better than this . . . come on now . . .

 

it is the SAME fact pattern . . .  a ball thrown to a WR in his hands and it is stripped by the defender, it was not a drop by either player  . . . what is the difference other than the color of the jerseys?  . . . please . . .

 

Do better. I don't care what color jerseys they have on. Amendola's play, he had a defender draped all over him, he tried to make the grab over his head, and the defender knocked it away before he had a chance to secure it.

 

Lee Evans had the ball in his chest, cradled, and while the defender also made a good play, I think Evans' had a much greater chance of finishing the play than Amendola did.

 

This has nothing to do with Brady's throw. He found a window and gave his guy a chance to make the play. That's his job. Good on him. But the play wasn't made. He doesn't get credit for it just because the play was almost made.

 

Flacco did not have to worry about throwing an additional pass on fourth down as all he needed was a FG and Brady needed a TD so he needed to throw it on 4th down . . . they both preformed, or lack of preformed depending on your opinion, on the first three downs and Flacco was able to sit down on 4th down without being required to throw a ball on fourth down . . . and if you did not give credit for what Flacco did, fine that is your opinion, fair enough, but there were many who said Flacco did what he could to win and the D stepped up . . .

 

None of that is really relevant. What's relevant is that Brady doesn't get credit for an almost comeback, especially not when he threw the game-ending interception. Again, I'm not trying to take Brady to task over it; it happens, even to the best. But it takes a major homerific twist to take a game in which Brady throws an interception at the end of the game and spin it into something to praise him over. The article should have left that game out, seriously. There are other examples from this year, like New Orleans, that speak to Brady's ability to make big plays with the game on the line. That's not one of them. 

 

and many said Flacco did what he needed to do to win but for the play be Evans/Moore . . .which is fine too . . . and this is all this guy is talking about . . . and again and again, my constant theme in this forum, is one of consistency, that we have to ask . . . and if some reporters want to say Flacco did what he needed to do to win, so can't others say Brady did want he needed to do to win. . .

 

 

Brady didn't do what he needed to win. With the game on the line, he threw a pick. Flacco, with the game on the line, got his team into field goal range. Set aside the Evans drop, the 32 yarder should have been made. It's two separate situations, and giving Flacco credit has nothing to do with Brady's recent game. You're asking for a consistent standard to be applied when the situations are entirely different. Brady doesn't get credit just because Flacco's team only needed three points. 

 

You do not have to agree with the reasoning behind what these writers, but just understand there are some who will opine on someone given a level credit to making a play (i.e. a game winning pass to the hands of a WR which was subsequently stripped by a defender) and coming to a conclusion . . . you don't have to agree with this thinking, fair enough, but please do not say the same are different so that one is justified and the other is not . . . bottom line both QBs made plays in regulation for a game winning TD, period . . . and what ever level, or non level, you want to attach it is fine . . . but please treat them the same and any media opinion of them . . .

 

 

They're not the same.

[jvan1973]

I gave you brand but that was not the crux of the debate.

Clutchness goes to Montana over any other qb in nfl history.

They didn't call him Joe cool for nothing

[amfootball]

Clutchness goes to Montana over any other qb in nfl history.

Wasn't just clutch that he was comparing. Again, read the article. And Brady is most often compared to Montana for his coolness under pressure.

[jvan1973]

Wasn't just clutch that he was comparing. Again, read the article.

I will never read a skip bayless article. The guy thinks Tim Tebow is great and Lebron is over rated

[amfootball]

I will never read a skip bayless article. The guy thinks Tim Tebow is great and Lebron is over rated

If you have not read it then why on earth are you responding like you have? The thread is about the article.

[southwest1]

You lost me on this one SW1 and that is rare. ;)  Athletes across all sports get compared all the time. Not sure why that irks you. There is a commonality of competition, playing your best in the big moments, being a leader, and winning. Bayless didn't say hitting a jump shot was the same as throwing a TD pass but what he is saying is coming up big in the moment is a trait of the two players and their fierce competitiveness drove their careers and success that they enjoyed.

Let's see: The formations & schemes used in basketball vs football are different, the rules referees  typically enforce  in basketball vs football are different, the penalties called in basketball vs football are different, the strategies executed to win in basketball vs football are different...The fundamentals of each sport are different as well as the court vs field they play on. 

 

Competition loses any validity when a person ignores the fact that a multitude of differences makes any legitimate comparison between the 2 sports genres completely null & void to me. When your differences outweigh your similarities  by a wide margin...A person's central thesis: A MJ/TB comparison becomes completely demolished & systematically annihilated. 

 

I am condemning Skip Bayless for a severely flawed argument not you or Tom Brady amfootball. 

[jvan1973]

If you have not read it then why on earth are you responding like you have? The thread is about the article.

I can gather from the responses. Here are the facts Jordan>Brady on every level.

[bayone]

There is only one MJ.

 

 

And there is only one Brady. :thmsup:

 

and there is only 1 other QB that i have read few years back when was a colt also said top be  MJ of football at the time, wish still had story & link , sorry , but know i read it

 

I am not at all saying Brady aint clutch , of course he is

 

and today Wade Philips also called that ex Colt QB as having

 

"Just the best year ever of any quarterback," Phillips said.

 

 http://www.denverpost.com/lunchspecial/ci_24766883/peyton-manning-2013-leads-top-10-seasons-colorado-sports-history-missy-franklin-terrell-davis

 

All are Just opinions, Wade Phillips today is as good as skip, and probably not as good as mine , yours , ours, Colt &   Pat fans  

[amfootball]

Let's see: The formations & schemes used in basketball vs football are different, the rules referees use in basketball vs football typically enforce are different, the penalties called in basketball vs football are different, the strategies executed to win in basketball vs football are different...The fundamentals of each sport are different as well as the court vs field they play on. 

 

Competition loses any validity when a person ignores the fact that a multitude of differences that makes any legitimate comparison completely null & void to me. 

Sure but he wasn't comparing the games. Certainly there is comparison between the performance of professional athletes among sports. That has existed as long as sports have been around. He was comparing personalities, competitiveness, the way the two approach the game, etc. He wasn't saying the NBA and NFL are the same, he was comparing two great champions of the modern era at their respective crafts.

[Flying Elvis]

I don't get the bolded. Brady is great in the clutch; that's well established. But how should the Miami game have ended any differently? Brady is the one that threw the game-ending interception. 

Game-ending interception? It was 4th down with 7 seconds left. What was he supposed to do, throw it away?

[amfootball]

I can gather from the responses. Here are the facts Jordan>Brady on every level.

lol. ok, don't bother to formulate your opinion then just post like you have one when you don't.

[bayone]

Game-ending interception? It was 4th down with 7 seconds left. What was he supposed to do, throw it away?

 

the little  Child Colt fan in the stands was hoping he would and towards him for s souveniier, ( LOL ), sorry end of day couldnt resist

 

Catch cha all Monday

[Superman]

Game-ending interception? It was 4th down with 7 seconds left. What was he supposed to do, throw it away?

 

Was it or was it not a game ending interception?

 

I'm not trying to use that game as evidence that Brady doesn't come through in the clutch. He does, quite often. Brady is great. The Saints game, etc., there are plenty of examples of that.

 

The Miami game isn't one of them. You'd be better off going back to the Panthers game and talking about the uncalled PI (which I think should have been called). But not this Miami game. You don't get credit for almost comebacks. Sorry. Especially not when the game ends with you throwing a pick.

[jvan1973]

lol. ok, don't bother to formulate your opinion then just post like you have one when you don't.

Jordan>any nfl player ever

[amfootball]

Jordan>any nfl player ever

Who is arguing that? The comparison is that Brady is most like Jordan not better than.

[southwest1]

Let's see: The formations & schemes used in basketball vs football are different, the rules referees  typically enforce  in basketball vs football are different, the penalties called in basketball vs football are different, the strategies executed to win in basketball vs football are different...The fundamentals of each sport are different as well as the court vs field they play on. 

 

Competition loses any validity when a person ignores the fact that a multitude of differences makes any legitimate comparison between the 2 sports genres completely null & void to me. When your differences outweigh your similarities  by a wide margin...A person's central thesis: A MJ/TB comparison becomes completely demolished & systematically annihilated. 

 

I am condemning Skip Bayless for a severely flawed argument not you or Tom Brady amfootball. 

If you forced me to encapsulate my biggest complaint here, it is simply this: Football & basketball are not on a level playing field primarily because of the different rules different sports superstars must rise above to thrive & flourish as leaders.

 

Success & how it is achieved is seldom an identical path in either sport. That's the key here. One that Skip seems to be  glossing over.