Report: Some young Dolphins player feel like they're being shaken down for money by veterans.

[ruksak]

Congratulations Rambo. 

 

Ugh....

Dude weighs in excess of 300 pounds. I'll say what every ex-player I've heard speak on the matter so far has said about the apparent extortion for money..."Just say no". 

 

I'm no tough guy. I'm only advocating for standing up for yourself. As well as teaching your kids where the line is for them to do them same. Violence is often only going to make things worse. However, if someone brings that violence to you, you better defend yourself or you're in for a lifetime of bullying. 

[AntonMcG]

Dude weighs in excess of 300 pounds. I'll say what every ex-player I've heard speak on the matter so far has said about the apparent extortion for money..."Just say no". 

 

I'm no tough guy. I'm only advocating for standing up for yourself. As well as teaching your kids where the line is for them to do them same. Violence is often only going to make things worse. However, if someone brings that violence to you, you better defend yourself or you're in for a lifetime of bullying. 

 

You are the one reverting it back to violence all the time. Martin is a LT in the NFL, a find it hard to believe he is overly intimidated by violence given that violence is his job.

 

You have no idea what sort of blackmail or emotional/mental elements are at play here, so to act like there is some quick fix like 'just say no' is a bit simplistic.

[ColtsBlueFL]

To be clear, I blame the aggressors and the Dolphins staff more-so than I would blame the victim.

 

As well, I don't want to make it sound like every problem of this nature can be solved with violence. There's just a certain way an adult should carry themselves in this predatory, every-man/woman for himself/herself society. Running away only makes you more of a mark. Think about it...this will follow Martin through his whole career. 

 

Martin's father was a Harvard grad, Martin himself went to Stanford.  His background, upbringing and education might indicate Martin may no longer want or even need an NFL career, or the need to 'man up' and to pick a fight with Incognito and his posse either.  He exposed Incognito for violating the NFL Personal Conduct Policy without getting his nosed smashed in. He has allowed Incognito to ruin his career.

 

I am not opposed to some hazing.  Carrying shoulder pads, buying donuts for the film room, chicken for the flight home... etc yes.  I might even had to participate in some rites of passage a few times myself in my career.  But I must say, that I always took it as a means to build camaraderie, not as a method of of fleecing and/or permanent will crushing.  Because you could tell that once 'through' that you were in and an equal.  A trusted and relied upon member.   And it wasn't something that lasted too very long or was intolerable physically and/or financially.  I see what some folks in the NFL are doing as resentment builders.  Oh a player may get through a rookie years worth of financial fleecing without going bankrupt and endure derogatory treatment, but that player may seethe deeply with disrespect and revenge for what should be a close knit group of teammates.

 

Now peeps are coming out and saying it is rampant in the NFL, and has been for years.  That's why there are so many football insiders that are mad!  This isn't limited to Incognito and the Dolphins.  Here's Rich Gannon-

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/raiders/2013/11/04/rich-gannon-oakland-raiders-hazing/3433515/

 

I wonder if contracts have anything to do with it as well?  NFL vets are fighting to keep their jobs, no reason to help out a rookie!  Many contracts have large portions not guaranteed. They have to retain their jobs and their status. You think LeBron James  tries to get a 15k meal out of a rookie on the Miami Heat?  I think in sports where contracts are more written in stone there is more incentive to help the youngsters so the team benefits.  All but SuperStar vets in the NFL are looking to take care of number 1 and his next flimsy contract.  Not the new guy on the roster.

[GoPats]

I think new people who sign up on this board should have to send us donuts. 

 

There is some value in "rookie hazing..." the haircuts, making them carry pads, etc-etc. That's harmless, team-building stuff. But from the sounds of it, this goes way too far down on South Beach. Bankrupting guys and making them shell out tens of thousands of dollars is not right. 

 

I also wonder how much of this is tied to Miami's inability to turn the corner as a team. If they have animosity in their own locker room, what kind of team are they building? Rookies are rookies, but ultimately those guys are there to help veterans toward the same common goal. They're part of the team. The Dolphins' offensive line is not better without Martin, and it's also not better without Incognito. So congrats, Phins... you dummies. 

[ruksak]

 

 

You have no idea what sort of blackmail or emotional/mental elements are at play here, so to act like there is some quick fix like 'just say no' is a bit simplistic.

It's the mental and emotional aspects that I'm leaning on. When a man comes to you and asks you to pay $30,000 for a trip you aren't invited on, what mental state must you be in to comply? Just say "no". It really is that simple. 

 

I can tell you one thing. Anyone calls my house and leaves a message like that, I'm calling the cops within seconds. 

[ColtsBlueFL]

It's the mental and emotional aspects that I'm leaning on. When a man comes to you and asks you to pay $30,000 for a trip you aren't invited on, what mental state must you be in to comply? Just say "no". It really is that simple. 

 

No, I believe You Are a tough guy.  You don't just say NO to someone who has already said this to you (and likely a lot more!) -

 

"  Quote Incognito: "Hey, wassup, you half - piece of -. I saw you on Twitter, you been training 10 weeks. [i want to] - in your - mouth. [i'm going to] slap your - mouth."

"[i'm going to] slap your real mother across the face [laughter]."

"blank you, you're still a rookie. I'll kill you."

 

That tells him you're ready to bring it, and he better be ready to back it up.  Martin was smart, violence as a last resort.  He got Incognito out of the league forever (explicitly or implicitly, I believe this will happen) without having to make or take a single punch.  And when Goodell is done, other teams will be self policing their lockerooms more from here on out.

 

Joking around with talk like that between dudes that are (at least somewhat) friends is one thing.  This is totally another.  No friendship or kidding attitude anywhere near. If this wasn't such an egregious violation of the NFL personal conduct policy, it would blow over.  Instead, I feel this thing (and more) has yet to even blow up when Goodell and the league are finished investigating!  Time will tell.

[ruksak]

 

No, I believe You Are a tough guy.  You don't just say NO to someone who has already said this to you (and likely a lot more!) -

 

What I'm saying is...it got to that point because Martin didn't react properly from the start. Once a bully gets your lunch money, it arouses the bully's contempt. 

 

Oh....and this is a family board. We all know the message by now, thanks to the thoughtless media reading it aloud 1,001 times yesterday. I would edit it out if I were you. 

[ColtsBlueFL]

What I'm saying is...it got to that point because Martin didn't react properly from the start. Once a bully gets your lunch money, it arouses the bully's contempt. 

 

Oh....and this is a family board. We all know the message by now, thanks to the thoughtless media reading it aloud 1,001 times yesterday. I would edit it out if I were you.

 

 It was a direct quote form a source already edited. I cleaned it up further, but the point is This is happening still as a second year player. There is no place for a rookie or sophomore player to stand up and fight with nasty intent on causing physical harm (otherwise why even fight?) to veteran player for off field stuff! Nothing good can come to Martin in doing so.  We'll see the story, but evidently he complied with all of the rookie rites of passage, including the financial items. I hear that they almost all do.  But when the the racially laced threats of physical harm came in, game over. It was clear Incognito had it out for him no matter what Martin did. There was no proper way to act/react to what Incognito was doing.  So it is either fight him (and get kicked off team for starting stuff with vet team leaders) or quit and get him back another way.  Just because a bully's contempt is aroused by any means doesn't mean it has to be allowed unless you stand up with fists clenched ready to brawl and end it.  Incognito is dirty on the field with players he might like and refs watching.  What he does behind closed doors... I shudder to think.  Stanford guy outsmarted dumb football guy. Stanford guy might get well paying job in the public sector or maybe even return to football.  What will Incognito do? 

 

Link to NFL Personal Conduct Policy-

 

http://nflcommunications.com/2013/06/28/nfl-personal-conduct/

 

It keeps leaking out more and more-

 

"ESPN's Adam Schefter reports that officials from the NFL and from the Dolphins have heard the message and also seen texts from Incognito to Martin that include derogatory terms referring to the female anatomy and sexual orientation."

[ruksak]

It is entirely possible that Martin wasn't aware he was being bullied at first. Possibly he thought the money he gave up, as well as some other incidents, were customary? 

 

In the end, Martin comes out on top. Even better, his unpleasant experience will now lead to real change so that others aren't suckered into dancing like a marionette for bully vets. 

 

I feel that learning to deal with bullies as a child is a valuable life skill, as evidenced by this issue. Perhaps Martin never learned this skill, thus he wasn't aware that he was even being bullied at first and didn't know how to stop it on his own. 

 

I certainly don't feel sorry for poor Richie. 

[Valpo2004]

It is entirely possible that Martin wasn't aware he was being bullied at first. Possibly he thought the money he gave up, as well as some other incidents, were customary? 

 

In the end, Martin comes out on top. Even better, his unpleasant experience will now lead to real change so that others aren't suckered into dancing like a marionette for bully vets. 

 

I feel that learning to deal with bullies as a child is a valuable life skill, as evidenced by this issue. Perhaps Martin never learned this skill, thus he wasn't aware that he was even being bullied at first and didn't know how to stop it on his own. 

 

I certainly don't feel sorry for poor Richie. 

 

I have suggested that Martin perhaps for a while thought he was just putting up with customary rookie hazing.  

[Yehoodi]

I can't call it, dude. A grown man fleeing from his workplace due to bullying? This is exactly why people need to stop raising their kids to be soft, padding every corner along the way.  

 

well would you rather have him solve it the Aaron Hernandez way? . . .

 

There is no real right answer in the middle of the road events, like the one that has to go out and get the chicken for the flight to the next city . . . there is certain hierarchy in the workplace with some having seniority privileges . . . right of passage if you will . . . the new recruit at the firehouse has to wash the captain's truck, get the coffee and so on . . . so long as there are consistent, relatively harmless and for the most part everyone has to do it . . . then all you are doing is what everyone in front of you had done in years past . . .

 

however shaking down rookies for shelling out money is too much for me . . . that is over the line in my book . . . so is verbal harassment . . . but it does not bother me to send the rookies out to get the chicken, so long as it is done with a tongue and check joke, its laughed about and they know is only a one year deal . . .  and even if it is done semi-seriously . . .

 

as to your point about stopping the bullying, that is a tough call . . . I have read most of your posts and I am not so sure your experiences are the same as the football players . . . first they are adults, second, this is a work place, and if you want to classify it as a job description, like low man on the todem pole starts off with the lowest job in the post office or wherever, you can view it differently (i.e. its part of their job) as opposed to being singled out . . . and third and perhaps most critically, this is their livelihood . . . and I am not so sure an athlete wants to give up a one or two million dollar job over 4 to 5 years just because he does not want to get the chicken like the last rookies . . . to go from 500k/year to 12 dollars an hour is a big drop . . .

 

telling your coworkers at middle level entry level job to "shove it or fire me . . . I ain't getting your coffee" might be aright as you might find another job similarly situation . . . but telling your 500K/year company to shove it and end up flipping hamburgers as a career at $12/hr all because you are too principal to go get coffee for 12 straight days might be a tough sell to go home to you spouse and kids letting them know we have to sell our house, cancel Disneyworld, and so on cause daddy/mommy didn't want to go out and get some coffees . . . now remember kids what I told you about not being bullying, it is a valuable lesson . . . I will leave the loss of your 2 mil dollars in salary to the decision/advice/feedback from your spouse, kids, and financial advisor . . .    

 

bottom line when you are surrounded by many veterans and you are the new kid on the block trying to start a multi million dollar career it is not too much to ask, and be submissive too, the pressure of them around you, your obligation to make a living, and the fact that others before you have done the same . . .

[Yehoodi]

It is entirely possible that Martin wasn't aware he was being bullied at first. Possibly he thought the money he gave up, as well as some other incidents, were customary? 

 

In the end, Martin comes out on top. Even better, his unpleasant experience will now lead to real change so that others aren't suckered into dancing like a marionette for bully vets. 

 

I feel that learning to deal with bullies as a child is a valuable life skill, as evidenced by this issue. Perhaps Martin never learned this skill, thus he wasn't aware that he was even being bullied at first and didn't know how to stop it on his own. 

 

I certainly don't feel sorry for poor Richie. 

 

yes it is good that he walked out . . .because, as you indicated, it might be a good conduit for the NFL to step in and rout out some of the more offensive practices of bullying and extortion . . .

[ruksak]

well would you rather have him solve it the Aaron Hernandez way? . . .

 

There is no real right answer in the middle of the road events, like the one that has to go out and get the chicken for the flight to the next city . . . there is certain hierarchy in the workplace with some having seniority privileges . . . right of passage if you will . . . the new recruit at the firehouse has to wash the captain's truck, get the coffee and so on . . . so long as there are consistent, relatively harmless and for the most part everyone has to do it . . . then all you are doing is what everyone in front of you had done in years past . . .

 

however shaking down rookies for shelling out money is too much for me . . . that is over the line in my book . . . so is verbal harassment . . . but it does not bother me to send the rookies out to get the chicken, so long as it is done with a tongue and check joke, its laughed about and they know is only a one year deal . . .  and even if it is done semi-seriously . . .

 

as to your point about stopping the bullying, that is a tough call . . . I have read most of your posts and I am not so sure your experiences are the same as the football players . . . first they are adults, second, this is a work place, and if you want to classify it as a job description, like low man on the todem pole starts off with the lowest job in the post office or wherever, you can view it differently (i.e. its part of their job) as opposed to being singled out . . . and third and perhaps most critically, this is their livelihood . . . and I am not so sure an athlete wants to give up a one or two million dollar job over 4 to 5 years just because he does not want to get the chicken like the last rookies . . . to go from 500k/year to 12 dollars an hour is a big drop . . .

 

telling your coworkers at middle level entry level job to "shove it or fire me . . . I ain't getting your coffee" might be aright as you might find another job similarly situation . . . but telling your 500K/year company to shove it and end up flipping hamburgers as a career at $12/hr all because you are too principal to go get coffee for 12 straight days might be a tough sell to go home to you spouse and kids letting them know we have to sell our house, cancel Disneyworld, and so on cause daddy/mommy didn't want to go out and get some coffees . . . now remember kids what I told you about not being bullying, it is a valuable lesson . . . I will leave the loss of your 2 mil dollars in salary to the decision/advice/feedback from your spouse, kids, and financial advisor . . .    

 

bottom line when you are surrounded by many veterans and you are the new kid on the block trying to start a multi million dollar career it is not too much to ask, and be submissive too, the pressure of them around you, your obligation to make a living, and the fact that others before you have done the same . . .

A good post. Well written. Credit for that. 

 

I would be remiss if I did not point out; Veteran players aren't anyone's boss when that game clock isn't running. They're no more or less a member of that team than the day 1 rookie. They are ALL eligible to be traded like a commodity immediately after practice. 

 

A player is only a member of this "family" until the family see's more value in kicking you out. This aspect alone would have me walking into training camp incapable of taking requests from vets seriously. Probably just the way I'm wired. I don't follow the pack. 

[Buck Showalter]

Something just doesn't really add up in this story....

Martin after all is an offensive lineman who literally gets paid millions of dollars to NOT get pushed around, he is supposed to do the pushing... Incognito just seems like a cartoon character, a racist, obscene roid-raging cartoon character....

[Buck Showalter]

No, I believe You Are a tough guy.  You don't just say NO to someone who has already said this to you (and likely a lot more!) -

 

"  Quote Incognito: "Hey, wassup, you half - piece of -. I saw you on Twitter, you been training 10 weeks. [i want to] - in your - mouth. [i'm going to] slap your - mouth."

"[i'm going to] slap your real mother across the face [laughter]."

"blank you, you're still a rookie. I'll kill you."

 

That tells him you're ready to bring it, and he better be ready to back it up.  Martin was smart, violence as a last resort.  He got Incognito out of the league forever (explicitly or implicitly, I believe this will happen) without having to make or take a single punch.  And when Goodell is done, other teams will be self policing their lockerooms more from here on out.

 

Joking around with talk like that between dudes that are (at least somewhat) friends is one thing.  This is totally another.  No friendship or kidding attitude anywhere near. If this wasn't such an egregious violation of the NFL personal conduct policy, it would blow over.  Instead, I feel this thing (and more) has yet to even blow up when Goodell and the league are finished investigating!  Time will tell.

I'd like to see Dicky Ninja get snubbed by NFL GM's but I got a feeling if Ron Mexico can kill a bunch of cuddly pound puppies in the name of sport, do hard time, & get a second chance in the NFL Cogneeto will too....

[SkyBane]

I'd like to see Dicky Ninja get snubbed by NFL GM's but I got a feeling if Ron Mexico can kill a bunch of cuddly pound puppies in the name of sport, do hard time, & get a second chance in the NFL Cogneeto will too....

This was Incognito's second chance. He already got bounced from the Rams for yelling at his head coach for pulling him after he commited 2 personal fouls in a row.

[Buck Showalter]

This was Incognito's second chance. He already got bounced from the Rams for yelling at his head coach for pulling him after he commited 2 personal fouls in a row.

Meh...

He's had trouble following him around everywhere he's gone, all I am saying is Vick killed puppies...

[SkyBane]

Meh...

He's had trouble following him around everywhere he's gone, all I am saying is Vick killed puppies...

The NFL is an entertainment buisness. It gives no craps at all about off the field shenanigans if the results are good. Good results means both high production on the field, and not disrupting the production of other members of the organization.

Incognito has been a major disturbance and thorn in his head coach's side twice now. His career is over.

[Buck Showalter]

The NFL is an entertainment buisness. It gives no craps at all about off the field shenanigans if the results are good. Good results means both high production on the field, and not disrupting the production of other members of the organization.

Incognito has been a major disturbance and thorn in his head coach's side twice now. His career is over.

I hope you are right, but I hope it doesn't comedown from Goodell, it woul be nice if GM's just said, " this guy is a locker room wrecker, no thanks"...

Time will tell...

[southwest1]

When it comes to kids, NO...it should never be allowed. Much worse when I was a kid. The school admin wanted NOTHING to do with any issues you were having out of school. I remember pleading with the principal that a large group of Mexican kids were calling me a "gringo" and they were gonna jump me after school. 

 

They didn't care that the problem started in school. I got beaten so bad, just for being white. My mom called the police, horrified at the sight of her 8 year old son with two black eyes and a split lip. The police refused to talk to school officials about failing to report it. 

 

The bullying continued, so I caught the defacto leader by himself and beat his bad butt so bad, I got kicked out of school for a week. I told his little buddy he'd be next if it kept up. It did not continue. 

 

Humans are animals. Predaceous animals. 

Sorry, you had to endure that ruksak. My how times have changed in school now. I don't normally condone violence,but there is something to be said for standing your ground even if you get your butt kicked. It just depends on what a person's options are, how committed the tormented party is to their principles/self preservation, & whether or not you can live with yourself for doing nothing. I often use humor as an ice breaker & defense mechanism. Some people appreciate that & some people don't. If you are gonna say no to someone, just make sure it is worthy of whatever backlash ensues...My only stipulation. 

[GoColts8818]

Stories like this make me like and respect Tony Dungy that much more

[AntonMcG]

It's the mental and emotional aspects that I'm leaning on. When a man comes to you and asks you to pay $30,000 for a trip you aren't invited on, what mental state must you be in to comply? Just say "no". It really is that simple. 

 

I can tell you one thing. Anyone calls my house and leaves a message like that, I'm calling the cops within seconds. 

 

Didn't you just lambast Martin for snitching several posts back?

[ColtsBlueFL]

Meh...

He's had trouble following him around everywhere he's gone, all I am saying is Vick killed puppies...

 

The difference?  One of them was at least able to serve his debt to society, and in the process become reformed.  The other continues to add to the carnage. 

[ColtsBlueFL]

Something just doesn't really add up in this story....

Martin after all is an offensive lineman who literally gets paid millions of dollars to NOT get pushed around, he is supposed to do the pushing... Incognito just seems like a cartoon character, a racist, obscene roid-raging cartoon character....

 

On the field, yes. And Jonathan Martin was an all pro left tackle at Stanford and protected our Andrew Luck's blind side while they were there.  Off the field he doesn't have to have an animal mentality, and didn't as portrayed in this article.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/05/sports/football/for-the-nfl-a-question-of-hazing-or-abuse.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1

 

Reggie White was one of the most disruptive DE of all time, but his off the field demeanor was totally opposite.  And he was one of the most loved players ever. Players briefly mention White's play, but are extremely verbose about the person he is and how he interacted with folks and touched them deeply and permanently.

 

Another example? Merlin Olsen - member of the L.A. Rams fearsome foursome.  But super nice guy and later Little House on the Prairie actor. (and Father Murphy).

 

I heard Larry Foote stick up for Martin, and mentioned that Martin had no place trying to start anything with Incognito.  And it has now been suggested Dolphin coaches actually told Incognito to "toughen him up".

 

http://www.fantasysp.com/player/nfl/Jonathan_Martin/3157484/dolphins-coaches-asked-incognito-to-toughen-up-martin-sources-say

[Yehoodi]

A good post. Well written. Credit for that. 

 

I would be remiss if I did not point out; Veteran players aren't anyone's boss when that game clock isn't running. They're no more or less a member of that team than the day 1 rookie. They are ALL eligible to be traded like a commodity immediately after practice. 

 

A player is only a member of this "family" until the family see's more value in kicking you out. This aspect alone would have me walking into training camp incapable of taking requests from vets seriously. Probably just the way I'm wired. I don't follow the pack. 

 

I hear yah and thanks for the response, my guess is that we are pretty much in agreement . . . I think it might just come down to whether or not the treatment of the rookies is innocent or with malice . . . speaking of coffees, I remember when I would work for my dad in the trades over the summers, and the low guy would have to make the coffee run . . .I kind of enjoyed it as it got me off the job site, we were brick masons, so it was nice, and too it probably better to have the less skilled guy go get the coffees so the more skilled guys stay on the job to work . . . but either way I was the newest/newer guy and it did not bother me to make the coffee runs, I was getting paid either way . . . so when I see rookies have to run out and get coffees/chicken, and only have to do it their first year then its over to the next class, it does not bother me . . . it did not bother me as a mason laborer and I did not feel slighted or used . . . similarly I can see why most rookies would not mind it . . . regardless if they are all on equal pay/status . . .

 

but again, the stuff in the Miami locker room went over board . . .

[Buck Showalter]

On the field, yes. And Jonathan Martin was an all pro left tackle at Stanford and protected our Andrew Luck's blind side while they were there.  Off the field he doesn't have to have an animal mentality, and didn't as portrayed in this article.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/05/sports/football/for-the-nfl-a-question-of-hazing-or-abuse.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1

 

Reggie White was one of the most disruptive DE of all time, but his off the field demeanor was totally opposite.  And he was one of the most loved players ever. Players briefly mention White's play, but are extremely verbose about the person he is and how he interacted with folks and touched them deeply and permanently.

 

Another example? Merlin Olsen - member of the L.A. Rams fearsome foursome.  But super nice guy and later Little House on the Prairie actor. (and Father Murphy).

 

I heard Larry Foote stick up for Martin, and mentioned that Martin had no place trying to start anything with Incognito.  And it has now been suggested Dolphin coaches actually told Incognito to "toughen him up".

 

http://www.fantasysp.com/player/nfl/Jonathan_Martin/3157484/dolphins-coaches-asked-incognito-to-toughen-up-martin-sources-say

Good points on White & Olsen, I realize that there are plenty of great guys in the league who handle themselves respectfully off the field...

It just seems weird, like I said something just doesn't add up in the story, at least to me...

[ColtsBlueFL]

Good points on White & Olsen, I realize that there are plenty of great guys in the league who handle themselves respectfully off the field...

It just seems weird, like I said something just doesn't add up in the story, at least to me...

 

I think ruksak hit upon it.  Incognito found a 'weak spot' in Martin's off field demeanor, and pounced on it and would let go.  At this point the more Martin gives in the worse Incognito becomes and ratchets it up another notch.  Then he gets coaches clearance to wreak havoc (in Incognito's mind) to toughen him up and goes way overboard.  So either this was out of the locker room (where someone with sense ans sensibility could intervene) or there are no sensible people in an NFL locker room; or at least that one.

[Buck Showalter]

I think ruksak hit upon it.  Incognito found a 'weak spot' in Martin's off field demeanor, and pounced on it and would let go.  At this point the more Martin gives in the worse Incognito becomes and ratchets it up another notch.  Then he gets coaches clearance to wreak havoc (in Incognito's mind) to toughen him up and goes way overboard.  So either this was out of the locker room (where someone with sense ans sensibility could intervene) or there are no sensible people in an NFL locker room; or at least that one.

Yeah, that's why some parts of this whole story don't really add up, hard to believe that Incognito's beratement of Martin got to the point it did, without someone on the team/coaching staff stepping in, or why Martin (a Stanford Grad. & Ivy educated parents) didn't do something like go to his agent & try to  force a trade prior to the trade deadline & before the ordeal got blown out of proportion & getting to the point it did...

Either way, I don't really feel sorry for Martin or Incognito, they are grown men who get payed serious duckets to play a game...

I am just glad it is another team's locker room that is in the spotlight with a serious black cloud over it...

[oldunclemark]

It's the mental and emotional aspects that I'm leaning on. When a man comes to you and asks you to pay $30,000 for a trip you aren't invited on, what mental state must you be in to comply? Just say "no". It really is that simple. 

 

I can tell you one thing. Anyone calls my house and leaves a message like that, I'm calling the cops within seconds.

..and that's because you are civilized...Ruk...

...If someone threatens my life, demands money and starts talking about my family...and I'm scared..

...I call up some people who might know some people who have talks with people ... I'm not giving up my money

[ruksak]

Didn't you just lambast Martin for snitching several posts back?

No.