Chuck loves Donald Brown...a little

[crazycolt1]

take into account that PFF is at times very useless

 

anyone using them to prove a point is wasting their time

Especially when it could throw doubt in your opinion.

[crazycolt1]

Jeez- His 50 yard run fired our run game up this last game. Every week it's pick a Colts and run them into the ground. 3 weeks ago it was Fleener. 2 weeks ago there was a thread to cut Vinatieri. Now it's Browns turn again, he has already been through this a couple of times before. Who will it be next week? 

[YOUR GM]

I re-watched the last game and counted how many times he was hit behind the line. On the plays where he had some blocking he made progress.

I'm not trying to make an excuse for him. But I'm not expecting him to work miracles.

I'm not asking him to work miracles either. I just expect a top 3 pick to at least be able to keep the offense on schedule. 4 ypc is not asking a miracle. Bradshaw, Ballard and Brown seem to run just fine behind the very same line.

[Dustin]

Richardson: 2.69 YPC with a FB

 

4.5 YPC without one.

 

Take that for what you will. 

[Smonroe]

Richardson: 2.69 YPC with a FB

 

4.5 YPC without one.

 

Take that for what you will. 

 

That tells me that when we have a FB in the lineup, they mostly play for the run.  (We pass as much or more with a FB, so it helps our passing game).

 

Without a FB, they're probably playing S deep against the pass.  When DB got his long run, they were selling out for the pass.

 

We'll debate TRich all season, and it's going to take that long to make a good evaluation.

[Truckin Sanders]

Brown has carved out a nice little niche. Been a huge critic of him and Jerry Hughes(rightfully so on both). I like the way they are using him now. 

[oldunclemark]

The people complaining about TRich only averaging 3 ypc should listen to coach.  They're loading the box against him, thinking he's going to run.

 

Now, they might have to start respecting DB with what he's shown in the last couple games.  This only improves our passing game.

T Rich has averaged 3.9 yard a carry in the NFL.....with 2 teams

No amount of 'stacking the box' explains that....He's got to be more productive. He doenst run that hard.

They'll work with him

But Brown isn't doing well because Richardson is here....that's nonsense

Brown has played well before

[oldunclemark]

That tells me that when we have a FB in the lineup, they mostly play for the run.  (We pass as much or more with a FB, so it helps our passing game).

 

Without a FB, they're probably playing S deep against the pass.  When DB got his long run, they were selling out for the pass.

 

We'll debate TRich all season, and it's going to take that long to make a good evaluation.

He will get plenty of carries....He's the starter......and I like the fact that he's never fumbled and catches the ball well

But its ironic that Brown is trashed for not living up to a No,.1 when Richardson, the 3rd overall choice in the 2012 draft, averages 3.9 for his career

[jvan1973]

You gotta understand Pagano...he talks up ALL his players and picks like they are all-pro.

You need to take EVERYTHING Pagano says with a grain of salt, maybe a whole shaker full of salt.

Pagano hyperbolizes so much you never know where the truth lies.

not any different than most coaches

[dudeski]

Especially when it could throw doubt in your opinion.

 

yeah

 

you keep taking them at face value.  good luck with that.  

[Smonroe]

T Rich has averaged 3.9 yard a carry in the NFL.....with 2 teams

No amount of 'stacking the box' explains that....He's got to be more productive. He doenst run that hard.

They'll work with him

But Brown isn't doing well because Richardson is here....that's nonsense

Brown has played well before

 

Sigh, you completely missed my point.  I guess I wasn't very clear.  What I was trying to get across was that Brown did great on a couple of those runs because the D was playing the pass.  They had their S's back.  If you don't believe me, read Coach Pagano's comments on it.

 

IMHO, you haven't watched Richardson if you think he doesn't 'run hard'.  That is nonsense.

[Le Neon]

Sigh, you completely missed my point.  I guess I wasn't very clear.  What I was trying to get across was that Brown did great on a couple of those runs because the D was playing the pass.  They had their S's back.  If you don't believe me, read Coach Pagano's comments on it.

 

IMHO, you haven't watched Richardson if you think he doesn't 'run hard'.  That is nonsense.

 

46 of his 60 yards came after initial contact.  That's some hard running.

[Gavin]

I'd like to know if by "initial contact" they mean contact by defenders or contact by O Lineman and defenders

[OffensivelyPC]

brown is never gonna put fear into a defense. trich may not be putting wow worthy number granted hes only been here not even two weeks and hes still learning the playbook, defenses respect him and will put the extra guy in the box to stop him, your not getting that with brown and when you do have the extra guy in the box, thats a birthday present for luck.

He keeps ripping off one 10+ yard run per game as he has the past 3 games he will.  Considering that he doesn't run the ball very often, he's the kind of guy that can strike fear in opposing teams by catching them off guard, which is why he is averaging 9.2 yards per carry, even without the 50 yard run he's averaging 5.8 YPC.  That's enough to keep more guys in teh box when he's in and open up the passing game.  Any criticisms I've ever had against the guy was that he's not a 3 down back and an average blocker.  But when it comes to being a runner, he's a great change of pace back. 

[OffensivelyPC]

Sigh, you completely missed my point.  I guess I wasn't very clear.  What I was trying to get across was that Brown did great on a couple of those runs because the D was playing the pass.  They had their S's back.  If you don't believe me, read Coach Pagano's comments on it.

 

IMHO, you haven't watched Richardson if you think he doesn't 'run hard'.  That is nonsense.

This is the best part about Richardson.  He's not goign to be a guy that leaves defenses in teh dust.  he can do it, but not like LeSean McCoy or Chris Johnson can.  Richardson always runs hard and even when you think he will be stopped for a 2 yard loss, he turns it into a 2 yard gain.  In fact, since he has been on the Colts, he has zero rushing attempts that resulted in negative yardage.  Now obviously I don't expect that trend to continue indefinitely, but that's exactly what this offense is predicated on.  Because even though you aren't always going to get 4 and 5 yard rushes, you're never going backwards.  It still sets up the pass, and can put us in position for manageable 2nd and 3rd downs. 

[ColtsFanMikeC]

T Rich has averaged 3.9 yard a carry in the NFL.....with 2 teams

No amount of 'stacking the box' explains that....He's got to be more productive. He doenst run that hard.

They'll work with him

But Brown isn't doing well because Richardson is here....that's nonsense

Brown has played well before

I agree, Brown has done well before -- but the presence of a true "Thunder" back (in reference to Ron Dayne/Brandon Jacobs and Tiki Barber -- 'thunder and lightning') definitely helps Brown a little bit.

 

It didn't necessarily have to be T-Rich, I think that a healthy Ballard or Bradshaw would have helped Donnie this year, too -- and maybe it is more of our new offense where we are focusing on the run and throwing a lot more screens/short/efficient passes this year.  If teams were stacking the box on Brown like they are when T-Rich is in, and if Brown was the full-time back -- I think #1) he would not be averaging over 9 yards a carry, and #2) he very well might not be healthy right now.

 

Donald is not a big, physical back and I think part of his injury problem in the past is due to us over-using him, a poor o-line, and improperly using him (i.e., I don't think he can hold up well when he is asked to be a power or short-yardage runner).

 

With this new offense, and a legitimate back to run the hard-nose, short-yard, ground-and-pound plays, we are able to see Donald come in and take advantage of the opportunity to run with some space and open-room.  If he gets hit in the backfield or at the line (like was the case most of his career prior to the past couple of weeks), he (like just about any other runner in the league) has a hard time being effective.  However, give him the opportunity to get through the line untouched, and he is extremely dangerous.  He is also a very good pass-catching RB, and this new offense allows for him to see some opportunity for screen plays and more open-space running.

 

Finally, for all of those who say he is a bad blocker, he is really not that bad.  Obviously that "GD Donald" video with Peyton makes him look stupid, and so does the play on 4th down vs. Miami.  A lot of people, however, forget that Luck was going to get hit by the guy that blew through the right side of our line (presumably McGlynn) as well.  Granted, that was poor blocking on Donald's part, that is a pretty isolated incident (along with the GD Donald Peyton video), and he really has been a pretty solid blocker for most of his career.

[CR91]

He keeps ripping off one 10+ yard run per game as he has the past 3 games he will.  Considering that he doesn't run the ball very often, he's the kind of guy that can strike fear in opposing teams by catching them off guard, which is why he is averaging 9.2 yards per carry, even without the 50 yard run he's averaging 5.8 YPC.  That's enough to keep more guys in teh box when he's in and open up the passing game.  Any criticisms I've ever had against the guy was that he's not a 3 down back and an average blocker.  But when it comes to being a runner, he's a great change of pace back. 

 

my statement is about him being a featured back

[OffensivelyPC]

my statement is about him being a featured back

On that front, we agree.

[Malakai432]

Richardson: 2.69 YPC with a FB

4.5 YPC without one.

Take that for what you will.

Hmm that's an interesting stat. Especially since our starting FB is out

[husker61]

T Rich has averaged 3.9 yard a carry in the NFL.....with 2 teams

No amount of 'stacking the box' explains that....He's got to be more productive.

Brown has played well before

 

 

But its ironic that Brown is trashed for not living up to a No,.1 when Richardson, the 3rd overall choice in the 2012 draft, averages 3.9 for his career

 

i completely agree with this, especially the 2nd post, but where are you getting the 3.9 ypc from? it is 3.5 ypc.

[braveheartcolt]

He keeps ripping off one 10+ yard run per game as he has the past 3 games he will.  Considering that he doesn't run the ball very often, he's the kind of guy that can strike fear in opposing teams by catching them off guard, which is why he is averaging 9.2 yards per carry, even without the 50 yard run he's averaging 5.8 YPC.  That's enough to keep more guys in teh box when he's in and open up the passing game.  Any criticisms I've ever had against the guy was that he's not a 3 down back and an average blocker.  But when it comes to being a runner, he's a great change of pace back. 

Well said. People are in denial. His 9.2 ypc doesn't count though, because he had a one long run. Skews the stats apparently. Scientists will tell you that. We blame the bad o-line for not blocking well enough for Addai, Ballard and now Richardson etc, but we can't use the same excuse for Donnie. If we get good blocking, he is our best back, as he can (and already does) bang out the big runs. Give him more carries is the answer...and he has never lost a fumble I believe, so safe has they come. He's missed a few blocks? Tell me a player who hasn't?

[OffensivelyPC]

Well said. People are in denial. His 9.2 ypc doesn't count though, because he had a one long run. Skews the stats apparently. Scientists will tell you that. We blame the bad o-line for not blocking well enough for Addai, Ballard and now Richardson etc, but we can't use the same excuse for Donnie. If we get good blocking, he is our best back, as he can (and already does) bang out the big runs. Give him more carries is the answer...and he has never lost a fumble I believe, so safe has they come. He's missed a few blocks? Tell me a player who hasn't?

Amazingly enough, that's true.  He did have one fumble, but yeah, we recovered it.  Pretty amazing for a guy with 462 carries and 58 receptions.

[husker61]

Well said. People are in denial. His 9.2 ypc doesn't count though, because he had a one long run. Skews the stats apparently. Scientists will tell you that. We blame the bad o-line for not blocking well enough for Addai, Ballard and now Richardson etc, but we can't use the same excuse for Donnie. If we get good blocking, he is our best back, as he can (and already does) bang out the big runs. Give him more carries is the answer...and he has never lost a fumble I believe, so safe has they come. He's missed a few blocks? Tell me a player who hasn't?

 

exactly! the long runs are all a part of the top backs stats so why not browns? if you took them out, their averages wouldn't be very good. people talk about stacked boxes, but how many time does a back break through the line on short yardage and go untouched for a td. people will search for things to try and back up their reasoning.

[Goodtimes]

No. I just think and a lot of other people think he is a bust.

Edited October 2, 2013 by Superman

[Goodtimes]

I am. Are you still here?

[Goodtimes]

I wouldn't know, I don't drink at all.

[oldunclemark]

46 of his 60 yards came after initial contact.  That's some hard running.

You're living in stat world..he'd not gaining big yards yet..

say what you see

[oldunclemark]

This is the best part about Richardson.  He's not goign to be a guy that leaves defenses in teh dust.  he can do it, but not like LeSean McCoy or Chris Johnson can.  Richardson always runs hard and even when you think he will be stopped for a 2 yard loss, he turns it into a 2 yard gain.  In fact, since he has been on the Colts, he has zero rushing attempts that resulted in negative yardage.  Now obviously I don't expect that trend to continue indefinitely, but that's exactly what this offense is predicated on.  Because even though you aren't always going to get 4 and 5 yard rushes, you're never going backwards.  It still sets up the pass, and can put us in position for manageable 2nd and 3rd downs.

But PC...

Is what he's done in 20 games worthy of a No.1 yet?

[oldunclemark]

Sigh, you completely missed my point.  I guess I wasn't very clear.  What I was trying to get across was that Brown did great on a couple of those runs because the D was playing the pass.  They had their S's back.  If you don't believe me, read Coach Pagano's comments on it.

 

IMHO, you haven't watched Richardson if you think he doesn't 'run hard'.  That is nonsense.

I've watched every play the last 2 weeks...Trent tip toes into the line...you have to notice that.

He does not run like Bradshaw...I know you know that

Sometimes we fall in love with college players....Richardson looked great at Alabama and was drafted high and let go because Cleveland felt he didnt justify where he was drafted.....He's ours now and I hope he runs harder..

Brown has been criticized here for 5 years for tip toeing into the line looking for a hole.

..and for not gaining the yards that justify where he was drafted

The exact same thing. I'm only saying what I'm seeing

[dudeski]

Well said. People are in denial. His 9.2 ypc doesn't count though, because he had a one long run. Skews the stats apparently. Scientists will tell you that. We blame the bad o-line for not blocking well enough for Addai, Ballard and now Richardson etc, but we can't use the same excuse for Donnie. If we get good blocking, he is our best back, as he can (and already does) bang out the big runs. Give him more carries is the answer...and he has never lost a fumble I believe, so safe has they come. He's missed a few blocks? Tell me a player who hasn't?

that is absolutely  not the answer

[Malakai432]

He keeps ripping off one 10+ yard run per game as he has the past 3 games he will. Considering that he doesn't run the ball very often, he's the kind of guy that can strike fear in opposing teams by catching them off guard, which is why he is averaging 9.2 yards per carry, even without the 50 yard run he's averaging 5.8 YPC. That's enough to keep more guys in teh box when he's in and open up the passing game. Any criticisms I've ever had against the guy was that he's not a 3 down back and an average blocker. But when it comes to being a runner, he's a great change of pace back.

I agree, I think he's a great change of pace back also. Colts got a battering ram who can wear defenses down in Trent (who I personally think will be very good) along wth a possible home run hitting speedster in Brown. We are going to have too many backs next year, will be some very tough decisions to make for the staff.

[hawkeyes]

BAH .... trent wasnt doing anything - Brown was a beast every run he made - WHY was he not given more opportunities?

[OffensivelyPC]

But PC...

Is what he's done in 20 games worthy of a No.1 yet?

If you mean first round, no of course not.  But what he did in Cleveland is irrelevant to a large extent.  They sucked, his team sucked, and this is a different team.  All that matters what he did at Cleveland is what's on film and how the coaches thought that in our system, he would be much better.  But it's still a premature question and judgment.  We won't know if this trade works in our favor until bare minimum, after the superbowl.

[OffensivelyPC]

I agree, I think he's a great change of pace back also. Colts got a battering ram who can wear defenses down in Trent (who I personally think will be very good) along wth a possible home run hitting speedster in Brown. We are going to have too many backs next year, will be some very tough decisions to make for the staff.

I know.  Someone posted an article not too long ago about what we do in the offseason as far as RBs go.  I wish we could keep all 4 guys (not to mention Kerwynn), but I just don't think it's feasible.