Kraft Hopes Tebow makes roster

[AntonMcG]

I think what separates Tebow is we saw him do it. Take a 1-4 putrid team and win 7 of 8 and the division and a playoff game. Imagine if he had an AP type RB with him and a good TE and a couple of decent WRs that can get open deep? I don't think his skillset is that far off from any other run first QB.

 

Wow, there is quite a bit wrong with this post...

 

It was not a putrid team, not even close. It was a team with a bad QB going through a bad spell. Their running game was superb, so you are just incorrect there, in fact they were the best running team in football, McGahee ran for 1200 yards.

 

Their defense had playmakers like Dumervil, Bailey and Miller. And he had a great receiving core... Thomas and Decker can't run deep? Are you serious? Tebow cannot throw deep accurately, and it takes him about 3 seconds to wind up a deep throw, that is why he relied on screens.

 

You don't think his skillset is far off any other run first QB... okay, what run-first QB starts in the NFL? Vick was a run-first QB but hasn't been for the last 4 years. RG3 is not, nor is Wilson or Kaepernick... they have designed runs, but a primarily passers, and very good passers at that.

 

Then again he probably would succeed if he had a great defense, a great o-line, Adrian Peterson, a great TE and two great deep threat receivers.... just like anyone else that ever played QB in the NFL.

[amfootball]

Wow, there is quite a bit wrong with this post...

 

It was not a putrid team, not even close. It was a team with a bad QB going through a bad spell. Their running game was superb, so you are just incorrect there, in fact they were the best running team in football, McGahee ran for 1200 yards.

 

Their defense had playmakers like Dumervil, Bailey and Miller. And he had a great receiving core... Thomas and Decker can't run deep? Are you serious? Tebow cannot throw deep accurately, and it takes him about 3 seconds to wind up a deep throw, that is why he relied on screens.

 

You don't think his skillset is far off any other run first QB... okay, what run-first QB starts in the NFL? Vick was a run-first QB but hasn't been for the last 4 years. RG3 is not, nor is Wilson or Kaepernick... they have designed runs, but a primarily passers, and very good passers at that.

 

Then again he probably would succeed if he had a great defense, a great o-line, Adrian Peterson, a great TE and two great deep threat receivers.... just like anyone else that ever played QB in the NFL.

The Broncos were the very definition of putrid prior to Tebow. In 2010 they were 4-12 and began 2011 at 1-4 which is the worst stretch of any team in the NFL during that time. They had just fired the McDaniels regime at the end of the 2010 and began with Fox so the team was in a state of flux going from one coaching staff to another.   

 

The defense that you just touted was ranked 24 in points allowed. They were in a word – awful.

The run game? In 2010, Moreno rushed for 700+ yards and 5 TDs. In 2011, with Tebow running the read option, McGahee ran for 1,200 and 4 TDs; Tebow had 660 yards and 6 TDs rushing. Tebow is the one that led the #1 rushing attack. Of course, one last detail, the Broncos traded their best receiver when they gave the starting job to Tebow – Brandon Lloyd to the Rams. So Tebow was working with Decker who no one had heard of prior and a second year guy Demarius Thomas who only started two games the previous season.

 

There have been countless run first Qbs in the NFL over the years, e.g. Randall Cunningham, Vince Young, Vick, etc. I think what separates Tebow is his ability to run the read option.

 

I am not sure why every QB in the league gets to have an offense built around them but when I suggest the same for Tebow everyone is up and arms. Like I said, give him a couple of stout RBs and decent TE and WRs and he will succeed. He had success with much less than that in 2011.

[Narcosys]

Any. If he washes out of the league, for a year or so, it would be significantly harder for him to get back in.

So how are the pats helping him with that if he washes out with them?

[AntonMcG]

The Broncos were the very definition of putrid prior to Tebow. In 2010 they were 4-12 and began 2011 at 1-4 which is the worst stretch of any team in the NFL during that time. They had just fired the McDaniels regime at the end of the 2010 and began with Fox so the team was in a state of flux going from one coaching staff to another.   

 

It was well known entering the 2011 season that the Broncos were a massively upgraded team, with the only issue remaining at QB.

 

The defense that you just touted was ranked 24 in points allowed. They were in a word – awful.

 

Not even close to the real story. Nearly every game the team won, the defense allowed 7 points, 10 points etc. They were the catalysts for those wins... they got blown out several times which inflates theier average over the season.

 

The run game? In 2010, Moreno rushed for 700+ yards and 5 TDs. In 2011, with Tebow running the read option, McGahee ran for 1,200 and 4 TDs; Tebow had 660 yards and 6 TDs rushing. Tebow is the one that led the #1 rushing attack.

 

McGahee's stats in the two games before Tebow took over? 103YDS/6.9AVG and 125YDS/7.8AVG. Tebow did contribute quite a bit to the running game... as should all run-first QBs, that not enough to be a good NFL QB though.

 

Of course, one last detail, the Broncos traded their best receiver when they gave the starting job to Tebow – Brandon Lloyd to the Rams. So Tebow was working with Decker who no one had heard of prior and a second year guy Demarius Thomas who only started two games the previous season.

 

 

Decker was very highly rated and produced before Tebow came in. Thomas was always going to be a star and was the reason they won their playoff game against the Steelers. Plus both a deep threat ability.

 

 

There have been countless run first Qbs in the NFL over the years, e.g. Randall Cunningham, Vince Young, Vick, etc. I think what separates Tebow is his ability to run the read option.

 

Young was a massive bust... great example. Cunningham played in a time when it was a different game. Vick was horrible when he was run-first.

 

I am not sure why every QB in the league gets to have an offense built around them but when I suggest the same for Tebow everyone is up and arms.Like I said, give him a couple of stout RBs and decent TE and WRs and he will succeed. He had success with much less than that in 2011.

 

So would any decent QB. The difference is a great QB makes everyone around him better.

[amfootball]

 

The Broncos were the very definition of putrid prior to Tebow. In 2010 they were 4-12 and began 2011 at 1-4 which is the worst stretch of any team in the NFL during that time. They had just fired the McDaniels regime at the end of the 2010 and began with Fox so the team was in a state of flux going from one coaching staff to another.   

 

It was well known entering the 2011 season that the Broncos were a massively upgraded team, with the only issue remaining at QB.

 

The defense that you just touted was ranked 24 in points allowed. They were in a word – awful.

 

Not even close to the real story. Nearly every game the team won, the defense allowed 7 points, 10 points etc. They were the catalysts for those wins... they got blown out several times which inflates theier average over the season.

 

The run game? In 2010, Moreno rushed for 700+ yards and 5 TDs. In 2011, with Tebow running the read option, McGahee ran for 1,200 and 4 TDs; Tebow had 660 yards and 6 TDs rushing. Tebow is the one that led the #1 rushing attack.

 

McGahee's stats in the two games before Tebow took over? 103YDS/6.9AVG and 125YDS/7.8AVG. Tebow did contribute quite a bit to the running game... as should all run-first QBs, that not enough to be a good NFL QB though.

 

Of course, one last detail, the Broncos traded their best receiver when they gave the starting job to Tebow – Brandon Lloyd to the Rams. So Tebow was working with Decker who no one had heard of prior and a second year guy Demarius Thomas who only started two games the previous season.

 

 

Decker was very highly rated and produced before Tebow came in. Thomas was always going to be a star and was the reason they won their playoff game against the Steelers. Plus both a deep threat ability.

 

 

There have been countless run first Qbs in the NFL over the years, e.g. Randall Cunningham, Vince Young, Vick, etc. I think what separates Tebow is his ability to run the read option.

 

Young was a massive bust... great example. Cunningham played in a time when it was a different game. Vick was horrible when he was run-first.

 

I am not sure why every QB in the league gets to have an offense built around them but when I suggest the same for Tebow everyone is up and arms.Like I said, give him a couple of stout RBs and decent TE and WRs and he will succeed. He had success with much less than that in 2011.

 

So would any decent QB. The difference is a great QB makes everyone around him better.

 

Do you have any links to the Denver Broncos being picked to do well in 2011? There were changes when Fox came but I don’t remember seeing anything where they were picked to be this massively better team than 2010. And whatever the analysts were saying the fact is they began 2011 at 1-4 and did not start winning until Tebow took the helm.

 

In terms of the defense, here are the points they allowed – 23, 22, 17, 49, 29, 15, 45, 24, 10, 13, 13, 32, 10, 41, 40, 7, 23, 45.  Their lowest points allowed came against theTitans (17); Dolphins (15); Jets (13); Chargers (13); Bears (10 – without Cutler or Forte playing); KC (7). They had FIVE games where they let up 40 points or more and one where they let up 32 that Tebow won. They were a terrible defense especially when facing a decent to very good offense.

 

Again, please provide links were Decker was highly rated.

 

Vince Young was 31-19 as a starter – hardly a bust.

 

Tebow did make everyone around him better. That is the point you are missing. He was the one when inserted transformed the Denver rushing attack into the best in the league and led comeback after comeback to win 7 of his first 8 games and the division. He is the one that made Decker a house hold name and jump started Thomas’ career. And maybe most of all, he is the one that made Manning even consider Denver as if they had continued with Orton he would have passed over them like he did with the Jets, Skins, etc…

[Le Neon]

As soon as they got a qb the team became an obvious super bowl favorite. Thomas and Decker met their potential and they won 13 games.

Denver was 8-8 against a cupcake schedule. Tebow hasn't sniffed a starting job since. Elway sent him packing for a box of peanuts because he knew qb was the weak link. Same goes for Orton. Two sides of the same mediocre coin.

[House]

So how are the pats helping him with that if he washes out with them?

I already stated my belief that he isn't going to. At least not this season.

[AntonMcG]

I have come to the conclusion that you do not watch football... you just read about it... it is the only possible explanation

 

Do you have any links to the Denver Broncos being picked to do well in 2011? There were changes when Fox came but I don’t remember seeing anything where they were picked to be this massively better team than 2010. And whatever the analysts were saying the fact is they began 2011 at 1-4 and did not start winning until Tebow took the helm.

 

No I don't have links, I am not going through articles to prove a point that was talked about at length at the time. Tebow vs. Orton was the biggest story of the off-season, and consensus was this was a very good team that would suffer because of it's QB problems. It was on NFL Network every day!

 

In terms of the defense, here are the points they allowed – 23, 22, 17, 49, 29, 15, 45, 24, 10, 13, 13, 32, 10, 41, 40, 7, 23, 45.  Their lowest points allowed came against theTitans (17); Dolphins (15); Jets (13); Chargers (13); Bears (10 – without Cutler or Forte playing); KC (7). They had FIVE games where they let up 40 points or more and one where they let up 32 that Tebow won. They were a terrible defense especially when facing a decent to very good offense.

 

Do you have amnesia? That defense won more games than Tebow did. Chiefs, Chargers,  Jets... they barely scrapped by despite the defense allowing at most 1 TD. Yes they were blown away quite a few times... they were an opportunistic defense. They conceded one TD and no field goals against the Chiefs in what should have been a season-defining game, and the offense gets 3 points. I give him credit for a couple of the wins. He was very good against Minnesota.

 

 

Vince Young was 31-19 as a starter – hardly a bust.

 

There he goes again... equating QB talent to wins... Young is a bust, he can't throw a ball accurately more than 5 yards, everyone knows this. Your clutching at straws with this argument.

 

Tebow did make everyone around him better. That is the point you are missing. He was the one when inserted transformed the Denver rushing attack into the best in the league and led comeback after comeback to win 7 of his first 8 games and the division. He is the one that made Decker a house hold name and jump started Thomas’ career. And maybe most of all, he is the one that made Manning even consider Denver as if they had continued with Orton he would have passed over them like he did with the Jets, Skins, etc…

 

Again, please provide links were Decker was highly rated.

 

Good lord your arguments are incredible. Decker had his only 100 yard receiving game ( and 2 TDs) before Tebow was the QB... anyone who followed football knew who highly rated him and Thomas were, they were considered one of the best young duos in the league. It was highly publicized that Tebow starting was ruining Decker and Thomas... they came out and said as much. How in God's name can you claim Tebow made Decker? It is absolutely absurd. An 8-8 team going to the play-offs is unheard off... it was a great story, but that does not make Tebow a good QB. He has loads of character, and is tough as nails, but he would never have a winning record again unless he had an elite defense and offense around him to win in spite of him.

 

You are doing the same thing you are doing in the Luck vs. Manning thread... using generic stats to try to prove your points that a simple eye test can disprove. You seem to think that if you give Tebow elite players in every position he would succeed... but so would anyone... this is the NFL, you need to win with less. Tebow makes players around him worse, not better... ask Thomas.

[amfootball]

I have come to the conclusion that you do not watch football... you just read about it... it is the only possible explanation

 

 

You are doing the same thing you are doing in the Luck vs. Manning thread... using generic stats to try to prove your points that a simple eye test can disprove. You seem to think that if you give Tebow elite players in every position he would succeed... but so would anyone... this is the NFL, you need to win with less. Tebow makes players around him worse, not better... ask Thomas.

Why the insults? I have not insulted you in this debate. But I suppose you have to resort to insults when you can't debate any of my points or provide any evidence to support your claims.

 

I never said to give Tebow elite players. I just said imagine what he could do IF he had the likes of an AP behind him. I said give him a stout run game given his strength is the read option and quality TEs and WRs that can get open deep. My point being that he did not have a good team at all in Denver and won with them. It is silly to think he could not only win again but win more with a better team around him same as any other QB. I mean haven't Colts fans been belly aching all season for a better line, better run game and better D for Luck? And every time I see Schaub's name come up you all run to the fact that he has a better team around him then Luck which is why he is ranked ahead of him on everyone's QB list.

[Le Neon]

The difference is Luck still looks like an nfl qb, even behind a poor line or with an average to poor defense. I bet the Jets would've been a much better team with Luck at the helm.

Reggie Wayne, TY Hilton, Donnie Avery, DHB all look good when they play with Luck. Players around Tebow generally look worse. Guys like Thomas or Sims occasionally get the ball in space and make Tebow look good. That's a key difference.

Why the insults? I have not insulted you in this debate.

I never said to give Tebow elite players. I just said imagine what he could do IF he had the likes of an AP behind him. I said give him a stout run game given his strength is the read option and quality TEs and WRs that can get open deep. My point being that he did not have a good team at all in Denver and won with them. It is silly to think he could not only win again but win more with a better team around him same as any other QB. I mean haven't Colts fans been belly aching all season for a better line, better run game and better D for Luck? And every time I see Schaub's name come up you all run to the fact that he has a better team around him then Luck which is why he is ranked ahead of him on everyone's QB list?

[amfootball]

The difference is Luck still looks like an nfl qb, even behind a poor line or with an average to poor defense. I bet the Jets would've been a much better team with Luck at the helm.

Reggie Wayne, TY Hilton, Donnie Avery, DHB all look good when they play with Luck. Players around Tebow generally look worse. Guys like Thomas or Sims occasionally get the ball in space and make Tebow look good. That's a key difference.

 

Sorry don't see it. Denver's run game was transformed to the #1 in the league behind Tebow. Once he and Thomas got used to each other they had some good chemistry. Same with Decker.

 

But here is the rub - Luck has yet to win a playoff game. Tebow beat the #1 defense with his arm and watched his defense surrender the lead he built in the fourth only to come back and win in OT.

[Le Neon]

Sorry don't see it. Denver's run game was transformed to the #1 in the league behind Tebow. Once he and Thomas got used to each other they had some good chemistry. Same with Decker.

 

But here is the rub - Luck has yet to win a playoff game. Tebow beat the #1 defense with his arm and watched his defense surrender the lead he built in the fourth only to come back and win in OT.

Sanchez went to 2 straight afc championship games. By your logic Mark Sanchez is one of the best qbs in the league. While few would argue he's not better than Tebow, that sets the bar pretty low.

Tebow may not be the worst qb to ever win a playoff game, but I honestly can't think of anyone worse off the top of my head. From playoff winner to emergency qb and punt protector in one season. That's actually remarkable when you think about it.

[amfootball]

Sanchez went to 2 straight afc championship games. By your logic Mark Sanchez is one of the best qbs in the league. While few would argue he's not better than Tebow, that sets the bar pretty low.

Tebow may not be the worst qb to ever win a playoff game, but I honestly can't think of anyone worse off the top of my head. From playoff winner to emergency qb and punt protector in one season. That's actually remarkable when you think about it.

I am not sure why every discussion regarding Tebow digresses to other Qbs. Someone else asked about Dalton too. All I can do is look at what Tebow has done. He has a completely different skillset than Sanchez or Dalton and has played in a different system in Denver. We have 16 games to go on, a bunch of comeback wins, a division title, a playoff win. He also seems to have a penchant for playing his best ball in the fourth quarter. I dunno, I think that is pretty darn good for a guy that was asked to take over a 1-4 team for a GM who didn't believe in him from day one.

[AntonMcG]

Why the insults? I have not insulted you in this debate. But I suppose you have to resort to insults when you can't debate any of my points or provide any evidence to support your claims.

 

 Not insults, just conclusions I draw from interaction with you. I do not believe you know what you're talking about. I think you may be delusional. Genuinely. I can certainly debate your baseless arguments, and have done so. I benefit from watching a lot of football, and knowing the game well enough to make determinations... what do you do... read ESPN?

 

 

I never said to give Tebow elite players. I just said imagine what he could do IF he had the likes of an AP behind him. I said give him a stout run game given his strength is the read option and quality TEs and WRs that can get open deep.

 Oh, that's all he needs.

 

 

My point being that he did not have a good team at all in Denver and won with them.

 

Yes he did, but continue to make this silly argument if you wish.

 

 

It is silly to think he could not only win again but win more with a better team around him same as any other QB. I mean haven't Colts fans been belly aching all season for a better line, better run game and better D for Luck? And every time I see Schaub's name come up you all run to the fact that he has a better team around him then Luck which is why he is ranked ahead of him on everyone's QB list.

 

Of course Shaub has a better team around him, how is that relevant to this argument? Think before you type. Shaub is a fairly accomplished QB but is still holding the Texans back somewhat... which is exactly what Tebow would do.

 

Every QB wants a better team around them... teams are not defined by their QB alone... you would do well to realize that.

[amfootball]

 Not insults, just conclusions I draw from interaction with you. I do not believe you know what you're talking about. I think you may be delusional. Genuinely. I can certainly debate your baseless arguments, and have done so. I benefit from watching a lot of football, and knowing the game well enough to make determinations... what do you do... read ESPN?

 

 Oh, that's all he needs.

 

 

Yes he did, but continue to make this silly argument if you wish.

 

 

Of course Shaub has a better team around him, how is that relevant to this argument? Think before you type. Shaub is a fairly accomplished QB but is still holding the Texans back somewhat... which is exactly what Tebow would do.

 

Every QB wants a better team around them... teams are not defined by their QB alone... you would do well to realize that.

Still waiting for any evidence at all you got to debate any of my points. Besides saying "yes, he did."

[AntonMcG]

Still waiting for any evidence at all you got to debate any of my points. Besides saying "yes, he did."

lol... my God, you are too much. Evidence of what? McGahee thriving before Tebow came? Lloyd being traded because they were that high on Decker? Him having a breakout game before Tebow started? The defense winning them games?

 

The facts are there, I watched every game in it's entirity that year, it was a great story especially with the Colts being so terrible, I took an interest and always liked the Broncos. I can promise you Tebow was not good, some late-game heroics yes, a lot of it the work of his teammates and not him. I suppose you give him credit for the screen pass that led to Thomas breaking tackle after tackle of his way to the end-zone in the playoff win? Tebows touchdown... what a player. Delusional.

[DILLIGAFER]

he wants Tebow around huh.. says the guy that claims 'Hernendez dooped him'... holy jeesus.

[amfootball]

lol... my God, you are too much. Evidence of what? McGahee thriving before Tebow came? Lloyd being traded because they were that high on Decker? Him having a breakout game before Tebow started? The defense winning them games?

 

The facts are there, I watched every game in it's entirity that year, it was a great story especially with the Colts being so terrible, I took an interest and always liked the Broncos. I can promise you Tebow was not good, some late-game heroics yes, a lot of it the work of his teammates and not him. I suppose you give him credit for the screen pass that led to Thomas breaking tackle after tackle of his way to the end-zone in the playoff win? Tebows touchdown... what a player. Delusional.

Gotcha. You are one of those people who give Tebow little to no credit for a turn around of a putrid team. Again, give me one article, one link that says Denver traded Lloyd because they were high on Decker.

 

I hate to do this but your McGahee comment is comical. In Baltimore, McGahee ran for 671, 540, 380 the three years prior to Denver. When he got to Denver and Tebow he had 1,199. Last year he had 731.

 

Your argments hold no merit. I am not sure what to tell you. You can trust your eyeballs all you want but they are lying to you.

[amfootball]

he wants Tebow around huh.. says the guy that claims 'Hernendez dooped him'... holy jeesus.

I was quoting Kraft who said Hernandez had duped him.

[DILLIGAFER]

I was quoting Kraft who said Hernandez had duped him.

Good grief. Yesss.. I knowwww. seriously rolling my eyes right now. Swoosh!

[DILLIGAFER]

Gotcha. You are one of those people who give Tebow little to no credit for a turn around of a putrid team. Again, give me one article, one link that says Denver traded Lloyd because they were high on Decker.

I hate to do this but your McGahee comment is comical. In Baltimore, McGahee ran for 671, 540, 380 the three years prior to Denver. When he got to Denver and Tebow he had 1,199. Last year he had 731.

Your argments hold no merit. I am not sure what to tell you. You can trust your eyeballs all you want but they are lying to you.

, omg.. Putrid?? Not hardly. Not even close. Take your love for Tebow and hit that black hole with him. Please.

[amfootball]

Good grief. Yesss.. I knowwww. seriously rolling my eyes right now. Swoosh!

:slaphead:

[GoPats]

I thought the 2011 Broncos' defense was vastly overrated. (And I think they still are, with or without Miller.) 

 

During the 6-game win streak behind Tebow, they didn't play a lot of teams with offenses that could move the ball and score. Oakland (finished 9th in total offense that year) and San Diego (6th) were the highest, and to some extent, you have to toss statistics aside with divisional games (meaning, they're always closer than expected). The other four teams were KC (27th), the Jets (25th), Minnesota (18th), and Chicago (24th). 

 

So for those games, the facts would tend to tell you that they managed to keep it close against mostly teams from the bottom half of the league's offenses, while Tebow and the offense would do just enough to pull out the victory. Obviously the whole house of cards came down when they got dookie stomped by the Patriots. Twice. 

 

Denver had a really easy schedule in 2012 as well, and I think their defense is going to fall far short of expectations in 2013. 

[Qwiz]

I thought the 2011 Broncos' defense was vastly overrated. (And I think they still are, with or without Miller.)

During the 6-game win streak behind Tebow, they didn't play a lot of teams with offenses that could move the ball and score. Oakland (finished 9th in total offense that year) and San Diego (6th) were the highest, and to some extent, you have to toss statistics aside with divisional games (meaning, they're always closer than expected). The other four teams were KC (27th), the Jets (25th), Minnesota (18th), and Chicago (24th).

So for those games, the facts would tend to tell you that they managed to keep it close against mostly teams from the bottom half of the league's offenses, while Tebow and the offense would do just enough to pull out the victory. Obviously the whole house of cards came down when they got dookie stomped by the Patriots. Twice.

Denver had a really easy schedule in 2012 as well, and I think their defense is going to fall far short of expectations in 2013.

Yep. We will see just how good they are without Miller and Dumervil this year. I'm not sold on the Broncos either, but everyone is hyping them like SB champions already lol.

[GoPats]

Yep. We will see just how good they are without Miller and Dumervil this year. I'm not sold on the Broncos either, but everyone is hyping them like SB champions already lol.

 

They're very much a match-up defense, IMO. If you can contain their outside guys, which the better offenses tend to do, you can neutralize the pass rush and exploit their secondary. 

[AntonMcG]

Gotcha. You are one of those people who give Tebow little to no credit for a turn around of a putrid team. Again, give me one article, one link that says Denver traded Lloyd because they were high on Decker.

 

I hate to do this but your McGahee comment is comical. In Baltimore, McGahee ran for 671, 540, 380 the three years prior to Denver. When he got to Denver and Tebow he had 1,199. Last year he had 731.

 

Your argments hold no merit. I am not sure what to tell you. You can trust your eyeballs all you want but they are lying to you.

 

 

Lol, you are such a child. Of course they traded Lloyd because they were high on Decker, why else would they have? A quick Google search and you can see yourself, but to humor you, here are the first couple of search results I found.

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/daniel_mcquade/10/18/fantasy-football-waivers/index.html

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/33926/brandon-lloyd-trade-was-necessary

 

To the point about McGahee, he had nearly 100 less carries, of course his yards were going down, they became a pass first team. His rushing was necessary the year before because Tebow couldn't throw. He was running well before Tebow started, I posted the numbers... or does your selective reading filter such information?

 

My argument holds much more merit than yours, and most agree. Blind yourself to the truth all you want... I know what I am talking about, you don't... I am done with this pointless discussion.

[amfootball]

Lol, you are such a child. Of course they traded Lloyd because they were high on Decker, why else would they have? A quick Google search and you can see yourself, but to humor you, here are the first couple of search results I found.

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/daniel_mcquade/10/18/fantasy-football-waivers/index.html

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/33926/brandon-lloyd-trade-was-necessary

 

To the point about McGahee, he had nearly 100 less carries, of course his yards were going down, they became a pass first team. His rushing was necessary the year before because Tebow couldn't throw. He was running well before Tebow started, I posted the numbers... or does your selective reading filter such information?

 

My argument holds much more merit than yours, and most agree. Blind yourself to the truth all you want... I know what I am talking about, you don't... I am done with this pointless discussion.

What is up with the insults? "Child?" "Delusional?" This is football man. Opinions vary. Get a grip. I am done.

[House]

What is up with the insults? "Child?" "Delusional?" This is football man. Opinions vary. Get a grip. I am done.

Lol yeah you never resort to insults when people vary with your opinion. "Hater?"

[amfootball]

Lol yeah you never resort to insults when people vary with your opinion. "Hater?"

lol. "Hater' is a fan description not an insult. I put it in the same vien as homer. Do you consider homer an insult too?

[House]

lol. "Hater' is a fan description not an insult. I put it in the same vien as homer. Do you consider homer an insult too?

A child is not a fan description? There's no such descriptions of fans as delusional?

When trying to degrade a reasonable argument without actually combating points. Yes, homer and hater are insults. Especially in the context you were just referring to, about varying opinions. It's a cheap way of discrediting someone. Without actually discrediting them.

[amfootball]

A child is not a fan description? There's no such descriptions of fans as delusional?

When trying to degrade a reasonable argument without actually combating points. Yes, homer and hater are insults. Especially in the context you were just referring to, about varying opinions. It's a cheap way of discrediting someone. Without actually discrediting them.

Maybe a matter of opinion. I don't mind being called a homer or a hater especially if the context fits which it did when I referred to your position regarding Tebow and my position being a homer regarding Brady.

 

Child and Delusional are personal insults and against board rules I believe. I don't think anyone ever got a warning point for homer or hater but I will leave that to the MODs to answer.

[House]

Maybe a matter of opinion. I don't mind being called a homer or a hater especially if the context fits which it did when I referred to your position regarding Tebow and my position being a homer regarding Brady.

Child and Delusional are personal insults and against board rules I believe. I don't think anyone ever got a warning point for homer or hater but I will leave that to the MODs to answer.

anyone with a different opinion of Tebow is a hater. Noted.

Child and Delusional, are accurate descriptions of someone who may in fact be childish or delusional about something. Matter of opinion.

[amfootball]

anyone with a different opinion of Tebow is a hater. Noted.

Child and Delusional, are accurate descriptions of someone who may in fact be childish or delusional about something. Matter of opinion.

Not different just delusional.

 

Now admit it that hurt more then being called a hater.

[House]

Not different just delusional.

Now admit it that hurt more then being called a hater.

They're basically the same thing you get that right? You're saying my opinions about "hating" Tebow, which I don't, are for reason that are invalid or don't exists.

"A delusion is a belief held with strong conviction despite superior evidence to the contrary."

In calling me a hater you're calling me delusional because you believe you have superior evidence that I am too blind or naive to see.

Now admit that you're putting you're foot in you're mouth more than a few times today

[amfootball]

They're basically the same thing you get that right? You're saying my opinions about "hating" Tebow, which I don't, are for reason that are invalid or don't exists.

"A delusion is a belief held with strong conviction despite superior evidence to the contrary."

In calling me a hater you're calling me delusional because you believe you have superior evidence that I am too blind or naive to see.

Now admit that you're putting you're foot in you're mouth more than a few times today

What superior evidence? Who has that? This is a football chat board.

[House]

What superior evidence? Who has that? This is a football chat board.

Apparently you, who has designated me a "hater." Because you know, without question, my critiques of Timmy come from some dark place, of hatred.

Or ya know, just my honest assessment of a QB. Like I would give for any QB. But I totally deserve to be labeled a hater for that. All because our assessments differ

[amfootball]

Apparently you, who has designated me a "hater." Because you know, without question, my critiques of Timmy come from some dark place, of hatred.

Or ya know, just my honest assessment of a QB. Like I would give for any QB. But I totally deserve to be labeled a hater for that. All because our assessments differ

An opinion. Nothing more. And I take it back and apologize.

[House]

An opinion. Nothing more. And I take it back and apologize.

Excellent. Time to move on anyways. Too many notifications from Amfootball for one day........