ESPN , top 20 coaches all time , # 20 Tony Dungy

[bayone]

No. 20 - Tony Dungy

Peyton Manning, Mike Tomlin, Lovie Smith, Herm Edwards and Doug Williams discuss why Tony Dungy is one of the greatest coaches in NFL history.

 

 

Video

 

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=espn:9297197

 

ARTICLE

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/page/greatestcoach20/greatest-coaches-nfl-history-tony-dungy

[21isSuperman]

I might be in the minority here, but I always thought Dungy was overrated as a coach.  He's an incredible man, but he wasn't able to take that very talented team in Tampa to the Super Bowl when Gruden did it in year 1.  And he underachieved with all the talent we had here in Indy during his reign.  I feel like he is far too conservative and I don't like the "bend but don't break" approach of the Tampa 2.

[bayone]

I might be in the minority here, but I always thought Dungy was overrated as a coach.  He's an incredible man, but he wasn't able to take that very talented team in Tampa to the Super Bowl when Gruden did it in year 1.  And he underachieved with all the talent we had here in Indy during his reign.  I feel like he is far too conservative and I don't like the "bend but don't break" approach of the Tampa 2.

 

while i love the man , and can see  any player playing their hearts out for him I also think he was overrated & conservative  but also as far as Indy I think as well Polian could of provided him with more of a well rounded team, I really hated the bend dont break, 

 

took forever to get them off the field and Peyton back on, why every year Indy coudnt draft a run stopper was as tirering as bend dont break as u knew it would just  happen again from the years start

[CR91]

I might be in the minority here, but I always thought Dungy was overrated as a coach.  He's an incredible man, but he wasn't able to take that very talented team in Tampa to the Super Bowl when Gruden did it in year 1.  And he underachieved with all the talent we had here in Indy during his reign.  I feel like he is far too conservative and I don't like the "bend but don't break" approach of the Tampa 2.

 

wow I was gonna say the same thing, but I didnt want people chasing me

[Yehoodi]

I might be in the minority here, but I always thought Dungy was overrated as a coach.  He's an incredible man, but he wasn't able to take that very talented team in Tampa to the Super Bowl when Gruden did it in year 1.  And he underachieved with all the talent we had here in Indy during his reign.  I feel like he is far too conservative and I don't like the "bend but don't break" approach of the Tampa 2.

 

I guess it depends on what we define as the coach . . . sometimes coaches get to shop for the groceries and that can be added to their resume . . .Dungy helped built up Tampa Bay so that Gruden was able too walk into a great situation . . . in indy he helped them take off after he arrived with some additions and they went on a rocket pace and one SB . . . so although he did not get the rings he did help built two different franchises . . .  

[21isSuperman]

I guess it depends on what we define as the coach . . . sometimes coaches get to shop for the groceries and that can be added to their resume . . .Dungy helped built up Tampa Bay so that Gruden was able too walk into a great situation . . . in indy he helped them take off after he arrived with some additions and they went on a rocket pace and one SB . . . so although he did not get the rings he did help built two different franchises . . .  

I think more of the credit should go to Peyton.  When you have Peyton running your offense, your defense can play more aggressively and take more risks since they are confident the offense will put up more points.  He also covers up poor offensive line play with a quick release and good audibles.  Dungy did build Tampa, but he didn't win with them.  Gruden won with them.  As for Indy, I don't think Dungy really built the Colts.  Polian built them and Peyton did a lot.  The defense wasn't consistently stout (especially against the run), but the team relied on Peyton to help get wins.  I could have been on the coaching staff and the team would have still gotten a number of wins simply because of Peyton being Peyton.  I'm not trying to say I'm anywhere near Dungy's level as a coach, but I think most of the credit for Indy's success under Dungy should be credited to Peyton

[21isSuperman]

And if you notice in the video, very little is said about how Dungy is a great strategist or a good evaluator of talent or anything like that.  It's all about how he is a great, classy man.  And I fully agree.  Dungy treats others well and he is a very classy, well-respected man.  But he isn't one of the greatest coaches of all time, in my opinion.

[The Fish]

Tony is a great man and a good coach, but top 50 even?

[southwest1]

wow I was gonna say the same thing, but I didnt want people chasing me

No one is gonna chase ya CR91 not after what I'm about to say anyway. I just wish people could separate the coach from the religious man & father figure Tony Dungy & when I say people I primary mean the media & fellow NFL coaches & GMs. When the subject of Tony Dungy comes up, they always mention his family, his work with incarcerated individuals, the tragic death of his son, the 1st black man to win a SB, & then analysts in the NFL eventually get to his tenure in Minnesota, Tampa Bay, & Indianapolis. You start with his football tenure you don't finish with it when you write a story on Tony Dungy. You can end with a heat warming image of the family man off the field. The order is backwards IMO.

My point is if the subject in question is a candidate's success as a HC, I don't care if the candidate himself is a nice guy who is a wonderful husband & community leader with integrity & honor. How is he being evaluated as a coach in the NFL? How many games did he win? How many comeback victories was he part of? What was his preferred method of motivation & discipline among players & coordinators under his jurisdiction? How well did he adapt on the fly & make game day adjustments? What was he like breaking down film? How did he point out mistakes & fix glitches, problems, & lapses in concentration & focus? Did Dungy teach technique or did he leave that responsibility to a coordinator or unit coach?

It's ironic really...Journalists never give an enormous backstory to coaches that are colossal jerks...They never say man this HC is such an expletive hole, but he's got such a nice family & he raises so much money for Cancer. Now, let's look at his stats, wins & loses, & coaching style shall we...

Why are journalists so reluctant to just evaluate Tony strictly from an X's & O's perspective? I don't blame Dungy here, just how the press always chooses to cover him even in that video. Kindness is a personality trait not a football skill. There, I feel better now. I've cleared the air & said my peace on the media & Tony Dungy.

[southwest1]

Tony is a great man and a good coach

Case in point right there too. That's exactly what the media does too. I want an in depth examination of Tony's coaching record in the NFL not just he's a swell guy. Tony Dungy gets a pass that no other coach in this league ever really receives IMO.

 

Tell me about Coach Dungy not biblical Dungy. Thank you. [Again, my issue is with how the media covers Dungy not how individual bloggers decide to view or remember him.]

[southwest1]

And if you notice in the video, very little is said about how Dungy is a great strategist or a good evaluator of talent or anything like that.  It's all about how he is a great, classy man.  And I fully agree.  Dungy treats others well and he is a very classy, well-respected man.  But he isn't one of the greatest coaches of all time, in my opinion.

Bingo 21isSuperman! This is the 1st attempt I have ever seen to separate the coach from the deeply devout husband & father. A person's class should never be used as a shield to protect a person from an honest, independent evaluation.

 

Your boss might think you are a swell guy, but if you're not meeting deadlines or pulling you're own weight, he/she is still going to fire you for an inability to do your job effectively in a timely fashion. I'm not saying that Tony was ineffective as a coach, but kindness & politeness doesn't guarantee a job or protect you in that job just because you are revered by your co-workers & make them roar with laughter. 

 

Peyton did save Dungy's bacon a lot. There's no denying that either & if Tony was such a defensive guru, how come other than Bob Sanders in 2006 the high powered Colts offense won all those AFC titles as opposed to a lynchpin stout defense? I'm just being honest here..

[southwest1]

 

 

Tell me about Coach Dungy not biblical Dungy. 

Herein lies the challenge: How does a journalist indicate a way in which Dungy's religious beliefs demonstrate how Tony exercises patience on the field at a critical juncture in a game situation? The easy way out would be chapter & verse quotes from the Bible & how those quotes allowed players to learn from their mistakes in a calm manner so as to not duplicate the same mistakes. I really dislike this approach myself because any specific mention of a religious doctrine takes away from the clinical, non emotional evaluation as a NFL coach exclusively.

 

Personally, I want no mention of a person's religious beliefs at all. It has no bearing on whether you can perform your football duties on the field or not. Sure, an athlete or coach can sincerely think that their faith guides them on & off the field. I'm perfectly fine with that notion, but evaluating a skill set is contingent on physical talent, mental toughness, the ability to adapt & avoid distractions, intelligence, & properly dissecting what you see in front of you consistently. Religion in my view is not responsible for genuine talent & hardwork anymore that a person's sexual preferences or orientation determine a player or coaches success on the field. JMO. 

[GoColts8818]

Dungy is the second best coach of his Generation.  Yes he got Peyton Manning in Indianapolis but you know what Peyton had zero post season success at all till Dungy got here and he also took a joke of a franchise in Tampa Bay and built them into a legit team for really the only time in their franchise history.  Make no mistake Tony Dungy was a DARN good coach. 

[southwest1]

Even reading that article indicates nothing of Tony Dungy's coaching style, sigh...There is a Tony Dungy coaching tree with Mike Tomlin, Lovie Smith, & Herm Edwards. How would they describe Tony's coaching principles? What are they & why are they so successful?

 

What 1 key lesson did Dungy teach them as a coach? Not life lesson, but game management lesson on the field, in the film room, or interacting with players, trainers, referees, or other coaches? That's what I wanna know...

[GoColts8818]

Even reading that article indicates nothing of Tony Dungy's coaching style, sigh...There is a Tony Dungy coaching tree with Mike Tomlin, Lovie Smith, & Herm Edwards. How would they describe Tony's coaching principles? What are they & why are they so successful?

 

What 1 key lesson did Dungy teach them as a coach? Not life lesson, but game management lesson on the field, in the film room, or interacting with players, trainers, referees, or other coaches? That's what I wanna know...

You would have to ask the players who played for him to get that answer.  You are asking loaded questions designed to get an answer you want.  Listen to the many former Dungy players who have nothing but good thing to say about him and talk about how much he did teach them. 

 

Also Dungy does have a defense named after what they ran in Tampa.  Not many other coaches today have a system that is named after their team because of what they did. 

 

Also one could argue being a good head coach at the NFL is less about teaching and more about being a good leader to get your team to give your guys to give you everything they have week in and week out.  If you want to question that watch the Colts America's Game video and listen to what Saturday had to say about Dungy and the AFC Title game that year. 

[southwest1]

You would have to ask the players who played for him to get that answer.  You are asking loaded questions designed to get an answer you want.  Listen to the many former Dungy players who have nothing but good thing to say about him and talk about how much he did teach them. 

 

Also Dungy does have a defense named after what they ran in Tampa.  Not many other coaches today have a system that is named after their team because of what they did. 

 

Also one could argue being a good head coach at the NFL is less about teaching and more about being a good leader to get your team to give your guys to give you everything they have week in and week out.  If you want to question that watch the Colts America's Game video and listen to what Saturday had to say about Dungy and the AFC Title game that year. 

Thank you for your replyGC8818. I disagree with you on both counts [bold sentences].

 

I am not asking a loaded question. How is what specifically are Tony Dungy's principles an attempt to manipulate the question to a biased conclusion? Where in the world did you pull that unfounded assertion from? Coaches under Dungy's guidance & supervision can't tell me what Dungy's fundamental principles were? Are you serious? Lovie Smith, Mike Tomlin, & Herm Edwards spend countless hours in meetings with Dungy at Tampa Bay, but they cannot state what his core coaching principles were? Sorry, I don't buy that nonsense for 1 minute. Tampa 2 is a formation; it doesn't alone reveal a coaching style of core principles. Tendencies yes, but a comprehensive pattern showing fundamental tenets of a coaching tree absolutely not. Not even close. 

 

 

I have seen the Colts "America's Game" video narrated by Tony, Peyton, & Jeff several times. Trust me, there's nothing about coaching styles in there. In contrast, I have read "The Education Of A Coach" by David Halberstram about Patriots Head Coach Bill Belichick & how core principles of his father Steve & his early years spent growing up at Annapolis Naval Academy & scouting trips with his dad molded how Bill evaluated football talent to this day. Would you like me to list them? 

 

I apologize if I seem short or snippy with you in my reply GC8818, but I don't take baseless accusations lying down. I like you GC8818, but please refrain from using unfounded assertions that I did not commit as you falsely infer or suggest. Thank you. Have a pleasant evening. 

[jvan1973]

Even reading that article indicates nothing of Tony Dungy's coaching style, sigh...There is a Tony Dungy coaching tree with Mike Tomlin, Lovie Smith, & Herm Edwards. How would they describe Tony's coaching principles? What are they & why are they so successful?

What 1 key lesson did Dungy teach them as a coach? Not life lesson, but game management lesson on the field, in the film room, or interacting with players, trainers, referees, or other coaches? That's what I wanna know...

all you need to know is he has a 69% winning percentage. he took the buccs to the playoffs 4 times. If that rams bucs nfc championship game were played today, the bucs would have been in the super bowl.

it's pretty safe to say, there is more to his coaching ability than his faith..

[jvan1973]

Even reading that article indicates nothing of Tony Dungy's coaching style, sigh...There is a Tony Dungy coaching tree with Mike Tomlin, Lovie Smith, & Herm Edwards. How would they describe Tony's coaching principles? What are they & why are they so successful?

What 1 key lesson did Dungy teach them as a coach? Not life lesson, but game management lesson on the field, in the film room, or interacting with players, trainers, referees, or other coaches? That's what I wanna know...

google is your friend... do a little research. I'm sure you can dig up something

[southwest1]

all you need to know is he has a 69% winning percentage. he took the buccs to the playoffs 4 times. If that rams bucs nfc championship game were played today, the bucs would have been in the super bowl.

it's pretty safe to say, there is more to his coaching ability than his faith..

I am not criticizing Tony Dungy for his religious beliefs. He can follow whatever pious doctrine he so desires. Nor am I claiming that his religious beliefs got him the head coaching job in INDY. I am merely questioning why reporters, who routinely cover coaches on a daily basis, cannot remove religion entirely from the evaluation process especially when they don't do that for any other NFL HC since Dungy's retirement? It's a legitimate question.

 

I do agree that Jon Gruden thanking Tony Dungy after winning the SB against the Raiders in 2002 indicates high praise for the defensive prowess that Tony built in Tampa jvan. Well stated! 

[GoColts8818]

Thank you for your replyGC8818. I disagree with you on both counts [bold sentences].

 

I am not asking a loaded question. How is what specifically are Tony Dungy's principles an attempt to manipulate the question to a biased conclusion? Where in the world did you pull that unfounded assertion from? Coaches under Dungy's guidance & supervision can't tell me what Dungy's fundamental principles were? Are you serious? Lovie Smith, Mike Tomlin, & Herm Edwards spend countless hours in meetings with Dungy at Tampa Bay, but they cannot state what his core coaching principles were? Sorry, I don't buy that nonsense for 1 minute. Tampa 2 is a formation; it doesn't alone reveal a coaching style of core principles. Tendencies yes, but a comprehensive pattern showing fundamental tenets of a coaching tree absolutely not. Not even close. 

 

 

I have seen the Colts "America's Game" video narrated by Tony, Peyton, & Jeff several times. Trust me, there's nothing about coaching styles in there. In contrast, I have read "The Education Of A Coach" by David Halberstram about Patriots Head Coach Bill Belichick & how core principles of his father Steve & his early years spent growing up at Annapolis Naval Academy & scouting trips with his dad molded how Bill evaluated football talent to this day. Would you like me to list them? 

 

I apologize if I seem short or snippy with you in my reply GC8818, but I don't take baseless accusations lying down. I like you GC8818, but please refrain from using unfounded assertions that I did not commit as you falsely infer or suggest. Thank you. Have a pleasant evening. 

It's not an unfound assertion it's what you are doing at least to me.  If you don't agree with it fine.  You are clearly entitled to your opinion but so am I.  The only difference I am not asking you to not post yours on the forum. 

 

My issue is that you are telling people what they can't answer with.  That's trying to twist what answers you'll get.  It's like asking how did Peyton always seem to get the best of other defense but don't tell me about all the stuff he did before plays.  Well you are discounting part of the answer.  Part of what made Dungy good at what he did was the life lessons he taught his players.  A lot of those players saw him as a father figure that they didn't want to disappoint and that played in a factor in coaching philosophy.

 

Honestly if you want to know what Dungy's core coaching philosophy was it's extremely simple and Peyton tells you it in the video in this thread.  It was do what we do and do it well.  In other words if we go out there and out execute the other team we are going to be successful and it worked.  The other part of that was treat people like men and hold them accountable.  If you want specific examples of it you will need to ask the people who were coached by Dungy, and if you want to nitpick and say coaches and players fine, my main point is that people on this forum aren't going to have the specific examples because we weren't there to get them.  They are the ones who know none of us know because we weren't there being coached by Dungy to find out.  Just because they aren't in a book though doesn't mean they don't exist.

 

If you want know what Dungy based what he coached on though read his book he'll tell you in there.  It was more or less treat people the right way, the lord's way (paraphrasing from Dungy) and out execute the other team.  It's really simple but if you think about really effective.  He more or less took the approach of let's not beat our selves and take advantage of other teams mistakes.  I would say based on his fast defenses he was also a believer in speed kills. 

 

Like I said before though, at the NFL level I am not sure how much of what makes a good Head Coach is about coaching.  It's more about leadership.  Frankly by the time a player is in the NFL you aren't going to be coaching major skills.  If those players didn't have those skills they wouldn't be there.  The coaching of skills that is done though is done more by position coaches that's why you have them.  The Head Coach's job is being able to get 53 men to believe in one goal and go out there and preform at their best week in and week out.  All you have to do is listen to any player or coach that worked for Dungy to know that he was extremely good at that.  Frankly I think that's I think separated him from Caldwell.  Dungy's players would have ran threw a wall for him if they asked and not blinked a eye.  I think Caldwell's players would have liked throw him threw a wall at times.  It's that leadership skill that he had that I don't think Mora and Caldwell had and it's what I see in Pagano that reminds me of Dungy and I think by listening to the players they feel similar about Pagano as they did Dungy in terms of being willing to do anything he asks of them. 

 

You really do seem to be going out of your way to discount anything Dungy did though and trying to trap people in a very specific argument where you can go see I told you he wasn't so great.  If that's not what you are trying to do then fine, however it's how you are coming across at least to me.  Frankly I've never understood why Colts fans feel the need to discount what Dungy did.  We are the ones who should be making the case for Dungy as a good coach.  Yet when it comes to Dungy there seems to be a theme of people trying to under cut him.  Maybe it's because Dungy choose to walk away I don't know but I know it gets old at least to me.  However, if people want to discount him fine so be it but the numbers don't back up the argument. 

[-JJ-]

I might be in the minority here, but I always thought Dungy was overrated as a coach.  He's an incredible man, but he wasn't able to take that very talented team in Tampa to the Super Bowl when Gruden did it in year 1.  And he underachieved with all the talent we had here in Indy during his reign.  I feel like he is far too conservative and I don't like the "bend but don't break" approach of the Tampa 2.

This is true and I agree but then I'm sure stats come into play and he did have the wins

[southwest1]

google is your friend... do a little research. I'm sure you can dig up something

Okay, sure why not.   I'll be back [Terminator voice] in 1 minute. A figure of speech. No need to pull out a stop watch BTW. Just kidding! A lame joke I know. Here's what I found: 

 

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2007/02/prweb502637.htm

 

 

--Tony keeps an even keel at all times & doesn't panic, get angry, or fly off at the handle. He avoids yelling. 

 

That makes sense when you are being yelled at you feel ashamed, embarrassed, & do anything to block further humiliation. I'll buy that.

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/post/_/id/50292/on-tony-dungy-changing-player-habits

 

--Doing ordinary things consistently without thinking. Sounds like basic training in the military. Repetition of tasks regularly makes them automatic. I'll buy that too.

 

--I've heard Warren Sapp say: "Stay away from women you barely know or women you know too well." A Tony Dungy saying. Avoid distractions or women who view you as a winning lottery ticket only. 

 

 

http://www.today.com/id/38525737/ns/today-books/#.UZ7sDuAvTKM

 

 

"Put people with character & integrity ahead of profit." Good idea. Money or throwing a ton of it at a vacancy or problem seldom leads to winning ways.

[southwest1]

It's not an unfound assertion it's what you are doing at least to me. If you don't agree with it fine. You are clearly entitled to your opinion but so am I. The only difference I am not asking you to not post yours on the forum.

My issue is that you are telling people what they can't answer with. That's trying to twist what answers you'll get. It's like asking how did Peyton always seem to get the best of other defense but don't tell me about all the stuff he did before plays. Well you are discounting part of the answer. Part of what made Dungy good at what he did was the life lessons he taught his players. A lot of those players saw him as a father figure that they didn't want to disappoint and that played in a factor in coaching philosophy.

Honestly if you want to know what Dungy's core coaching philosophy was it's extremely simple and Peyton tells you it in the video in this thread. It was do what we do and do it well. In other words if we go out there and out execute the other team we are going to be successful and it worked. The other part of that was treat people like men and hold them accountable. If you want specific examples of it you will need to ask the people who were coached by Dungy, and if you want to nitpick and say coaches and players fine, my main point is that people on this forum aren't going to have the specific examples because we weren't there to get them. They are the ones who know none of us know because we weren't there being coached by Dungy to find out. Just because they aren't in a book though doesn't mean they don't exist.

If you want know what Dungy based what he coached on though read his book he'll tell you in there. It was more or less treat people the right way, the lord's way (paraphrasing from Dungy) and out execute the other team. It's really simple but if you think about really effective. He more or less took the approach of let's not beat our selves and take advantage of other teams mistakes. I would say based on his fast defenses he was also a believer in speed kills.

Like I said before though, at the NFL level I am not sure how much of what makes a good Head Coach is about coaching. It's more about leadership. Frankly by the time a player is in the NFL you aren't going to be coaching major skills. If those players didn't have those skills they wouldn't be there. The coaching of skills that is done though is done more by position coaches that's why you have them. The Head Coach's job is being able to get 53 men to believe in one goal and go out there and preform at their best week in and week out. All you have to do is listen to any player or coach that worked for Dungy to know that he was extremely good at that. Frankly I think that's I think separated him from Caldwell. Dungy's players would have ran threw a wall for him if they asked and not blinked a eye. I think Caldwell's players would have liked throw him threw a wall at times. It's that leadership skill that he had that I don't think Mora and Caldwell had and it's what I see in Pagano that reminds me of Dungy and I think by listening to the players they feel similar about Pagano as they did Dungy in terms of being willing to do anything he asks of them.

You really do seem to be going out of your way to discount anything Dungy did though and trying to trap people in a very specific argument where you can go see I told you he wasn't so great. If that's not what you are trying to do then fine, however it's how you are coming across at least to me. Frankly I've never understood why Colts fans feel the need to discount what Dungy did. We are the ones who should be making the case for Dungy as a good coach. Yet when it comes to Dungy there seems to be a theme of people trying to under cut him. Maybe it's because Dungy choose to walk away I don't know but I know it gets old at least to me. However, if people want to discount him fine so be it but the numbers don't back up the argument.

First of all, there is so leaps to judgment in your response I don't know where to even begin. I am not telling people what they cannot answer with sir. When coaches tutored under Dungy cannot tell you what made them successful, why is that so hard to do? yes leadership places a vital role, but what about technique, leverage, gap control, foot placement, hand placement, & alignment responsibilities particularly on the offensive & defensive lines where games are really won in the trenches?

You act like a player can just read a quote from some random leadership book & execute a play perfectly with no time spent on core fundamentals among their respective lines. Sorry, an inspirational quote alone isn't going alleviate flawed fundamentals on either line. Plus, there is a huge difference between a fundamental technique & leadership theories; they are not the same thing. The 2 can merge over time eventually, but they are entities independent of 1 another & mutually exclusive. A player with no understanding of how to use their athleticism to their advantage isn't going beat the man across from him simply because he read an awe inspiring verse about leadership.

I am not discounting everything Tony Dungy did. I know that he is a SB Champion head coach & I have even acknowledged that Jon Gruden correctly gave Tony credit for assembling the Tampa defense/team that won the SB. How is it my problem if some individuals on here seem to think that Tony is a defensive genius that walks on water & can do no wrong? Just because I don't subscribe to that belief, it doesn't make me a Tony Dungy hater or the anti-christ sir. Please give me a break...I would speculate that you hold Tony in very high regard & perhaps even put him on a pedestal & you really dislike anyone that refuses to blindly carry his water & not accept his high caliber status hook, line, & sinker. Again, I will admit I have no definite proof of this assertion. JMO.

Lastly, life lessons are not the same thing as coaching lessons. Don't confuse the 2 principles please. Again, coaching lessons & life lessons can merge together, but it's like the difference between literal application & symbolic theory. Leadership lessons don't show you the swim move, the bull rush, the flee flicker, or gap containment. Yes, good leadership is needed for a good locker room, but with bad technique chemistry means absolutely nothing.

Feel free to disagree, but this is what I truly believe. I apologize if I offended you in any way, shape, or form GC8818.

[GoColts8818]

First of all, there is so leaps to judgment in your response I don't know where to even begin. I am not telling people what they cannot answer with sir. When coaches tutored under Dungy cannot tell you what made them successful, why is that so hard to do? yes leadership places a vital role, but what about technique, leverage, gap control, foot placement, hand placement, & alignment responsibilities particularly on the offensive & defensive lines where games are really won in the trenches?

You act like a player can just read a quote from some random leadership book & execute a play perfectly with no time spent on core fundamentals among their respective lines. Sorry, an inspirational quote alone isn't going alleviate flawed fundamentals on either line. Plus, there is a huge difference between a fundamental technique & leadership theories; they are not the same thing. The 2 can merge over time eventually, but they are entities independent of 1 another & mutually exclusive. A player with no understanding of how to use their athleticism to their advantage isn't going beat the man across from him simply because he read an awe inspiring verse about leadership.

I am not discounting everything Tony Dungy did. I know that he is a SB Champion head coach & I have even acknowledged that Jon Gruden correctly gave Tony credit for assembling the Tampa defense/team that won the SB. How is it my problem if some individuals on here seem to think that Tony is a defensive genius that walks on water & can do no wrong? Just because I don't subscribe to that belief, it doesn't make me a Tony Dungy hater or the anti-christ sir. Please give me a break...I would speculate that you hold Tony in very high regard & perhaps even put him on a pedestal & you really dislike anyone that refuses to blindly carry his water & not accept his high caliber status hook, line, & sinker. Again, I will admit I have no definite proof of this assertion. JMO.

Lastly, life lessons are not the same thing as coaching lessons. Don't confuse the 2 principles please. Again, coaching lessons & life lessons can merge together, but it's like the difference between literal application & symbolic theory. Leadership lessons don't show you the swim move, the bull rush, the flee flicker, or gap containment. Yes, good leadership is needed for a good locker room, but with bad technique chemistry means absolutely nothing.

Feel free to disagree, but this is what I truly believe. I apologize if I offended you in any way, shape, or form GC8818.

I didn't say he could do no wrong clearly Dungy has his faults ALL coaches have them.  With that said Dungy's were far fewer than most coaches that he coached against it's reflected in his record as a Head Coach and the respect that his former players have for him.  With that said, some, and I am not saying you in this case, like to try to discredit Dungy by saying well he had Peyton Manning anyone could win with Peyton Manning.  That just completely ignores what he did in Tampa Bay without Peyton Manning and many of those same people turn around and say Jim Caldwell wasn't qualified to be the Colts Head Coach.  People can't have it both ways.  They can't sit here and say well anyone can win with Peyton Manning to take away from Dungy's success and then say Jim Caldwell should have never been the Head Coach because he wasn't qualified for the job.  Also, people need to look at the fact that Peyton Manning and the Colts had the most successful years of their run under Tony Dungy.  I don't think that's just a happy accident.  Also, when people make it out to seem like Peyton Manning was the only factor we won chew on this, with Dungy as his Head Coach Manning is 7-6 in the playoffs, not a great record but a winning one none the less.  Without Dungy as his Coach Manning is 2-5 in the playoffs going one and done four times.  Anyways, you aren't really playing the well Dungy had Manning card so that has nothing to do with you.

 

Here's the thing, you asked what's the one key lesson that Dungy taught the team and then said you didn't want a life lesson you wanted a game management lesson.  Who are we to give you that answer?  We weren't in the lockerroom to hear that answer.  Only the players and coach who were around Dungy know the answer to that.  So you are pretty much asking a question you know we can't answer.  I will say this if you watch how his teams seemed to always adjust at halftime and play better in the second half he did something.  I don't think he just sat there and did nothing.  However, if you are wanting a specific answer to that you are asking the wrong people to give you that answer.  With that said though, I am not sure how much many Head Coaches sit there and teach game management lessons to players once they are at the NFL level.  Most of that is going to be taught by position coaches but again most players know most of those skills before they get to the NFL.  That's why GMs get paid big bucks to find players who have the skills you need to fit your Head Coach's system, really at the NFL level you are more or less polishing those skills up and maybe teaching tricks to help a little here or there but again by the time most players get to the NFL level they are there because they already have the skills you want them to have.  Dungy's system was more or less make as few mistakes as we can while forcing the other team to make mistakes and taking advantage of them.  He focused on making sure you didn't commit penalties and didn't turn the ball over while focusing on getting take a ways from the other team.  That goes back to the life lessons part because what he was teaching these young kids coming into the NFL was how to be mature men so they would make fewer mistakes.  So those life lessons you didn't want people to say he taught people goes back to his coaching philosophy.  Like I said before trying to explain how Dungy coached and not including life lessons is like trying to explain how Peyton Manning took advantage of other team's defenses and not talking about all the stuff Peyton does before the snap of the ball.  It's not painting the full picture. 

 

I'll say this Dungy doesn't have a defensive system named after his system in Tampa Bay and isn't called a Defensive mastermind because the man didn't teach players things.  With that said if you want me to sit here and tell you that worked with Dwight Freeney and taught him his spin move for example none of us are the people to do that.  Frankly Freeney had that when he got here, I am sure Dungy probably pointed things out to him to make it more effective but the basic skill set Freeney already had which is why the Colts brought him here in the first place. 

 

Honestly your whole part about core fundamentals goes to what Dungy was about.  He was all about doing the little things well and better than the other guy.  It's like when everyone was calling for major changes to the defense after the Jags game in 2006 and he said no we probably need to do less in practice not more and focus back in on the fundamentals and clean those up and the defense will take care of it's self.  A few months later they were World Champions thanks in large part to that defense.  Again, Dungy's core belief is beyond simple, it's do what we do and out execute the other guy.  He believed that if you did that more times than not you would be successful and he was very successful as a coach and if you look back at the games the Colts lost under Dungy it was normally do to mistakes or not out executing the other team. 

 

Also please tell me where I said you were the anti-Christ.  I don't think I said that at all.  Also, yeah I do like Dungy because he was a great coach.  That's not putting him on a pedestal it's looking at what he did here and saying never missing the playoffs in seven years, five division titles two AFC Title games, only one year fewer than 12 wins and that year had 10 and it was his first year here and a Super Bowl Championship (which is one more than any other Indianapolis Colts coach has) and saying man he did a really good job.  Like I said before Dungy had his faults I am not saying he didn't, he was clearly slow to make changes and that was maybe his biggest one.  With that said, his faults were far fewer than the good things about him and far fewer than anyone else who has been the Colts Head Coach in Indianapolis to this point. 

 

Other than win more playoff games what would you have liked him to do better? Also before people get too harsh on Dungy for his record his seven playoff wins as Colts coach is three more than the franchise has total since they moved to Indianapolis without him.  So while he could have won more playoff games when compared to other coaches of the Colts he's the leader in the club house.  If people can come up with a logical argument for why Dungy was overrated as a Head Coach I'll listen but most of the arguments seem to go back to "well he had Peyton Manning" and I explained that one before or like you are doing here asking a question that no one here on the forum can answer because we weren't there to get the answer. 

 

Like I said before, I don't get why people chop Dungy down so much, and again clearly you aren't the only one or frankly the biggest one to take a shot at him.  I just don't get it.  I wouldn't get it if people tried to do the samething to Peyton Manning either.  I don't get it when people do it to Marvin or Wayne in the past either.  The only one I get is Bill Polian and then it frankly goes back to people just don't like Polian which I don't think is the best argument in the world but at least then I can understand why people try to under cut him.  I guess I think if you look at what Dungy did other than maybe win a couple more playoff games it's hard to honestly look back what he did as a Head Coach and ask for more.  I can understand saying they wished he won more playoff games but honestly the Colts lack of winning in the playoffs seems to go beyond Dungy and frankly they won more in the playoffs under him than they did any other coach they have had in Indianapolis. 

 

All this is without even factoring what he did in Tampa Bay which IMO was a more impressive stop than he had here.  There he built a franchise from the ground up and he did it with a franchise that maybe the worst franchise in the history of sports when he got there.  When you add that to what he did in Indianapolis it's extremely hard to come up with a case for why he wasn't a good coach at least IMO. 

[amfootball]

I would not have Dungy on this list at all. Too many failures with great teams. He should have won more. He was not called Tony "one and done" Dungy for nothing....

[bayone]

I would not have Dungy on this list at all. Too many failures with great teams. He should have won more. He was not called Tony "one and done" Dungy for nothing....

 

 

me neither, he had 1 great quality to me , he was a great man that got players respect and where willing to play hard for him

 

just dont think he was the wisest of coaches in   decisions as a whole  and game planning and just never seemed to care if a team could run all day on u keeping your offense off the field

 

why he never could get polian to get a run stopper and more balanced team each & every draft year is beyond me, just never tried to draft run stoppers always hoping Sander would stay healthy when he couldnt

 

also sometimes u do need some emotion, though he could get his point across without it but still , sometimes  players need to be woken up loudly to me

[jvan1973]

I would not have Dungy on this list at all. Too many failures with great teams. He should have won more. He was not called Tony "one and done" Dungy for nothing....

please name 20 better coaches than dungy

[amfootball]

please name 20 better coaches than dungy

In no particular order:

Bill Walsh

Don Shula

Dan Reeves

Bill Parcells

Tom Coughlin

John Madden

Joe Gibbs

Vince Lombardi

Marv Levy

Hank Stram

George Allen  

Jimmy Johnson

Sid Gillman

Curly Lambeau

Bud Grant

Chuck Noll

Tom Landry

George Halas

Bill Belichick

Paul Brown

 

I could go on....Dungy would not be in my top 50....

 

I think he made the list because he was the first black HC to win a SB and for his humanitarian efforts. But really he does not belong.

[jvan1973]

In no particular order:

Bill Walsh

Don Shula

Dan Reeves

Bill Parcells

Tom Coughlin

John Madden

Joe Gibbs

Vince Lombardi

Marv Levy

Hank Stram

George Allen

Jimmy Johnson

Sid Gillman

Curly Lambeau

Bud Grant

Chuck Noll

Tom Landry

George Halas

Bill Belichick

Paul Brown

I could go on....Dungy would not be in my top 50....

I think he made the list because he was the first black HC to win a SB and for his humanitarian efforts. But really he does not belong.

as soon as i saw Dan Reeves on your list, it lost all credibility.

[amfootball]

as soon as i saw Dan Reeves on your list, it lost all credibility.

ok, I think he is better. But take him off if you like and put in his place Bill Cowher or Mike Shanahan. All better than Dungy.

[jvan1973]

ok, I think he is better. But take him off if you like and put in his place Bill Cowher or Mike Shanahan. All better than Dungy.

dungy has the ninth highest winning percentage in the history of the NFL

[amfootball]

dungy has the ninth highest winning percentage in the history of the NFL

That is not the only measuring stick. Parcells only has a .570 winning percentage which I guarantee will be either the lowest or among the lowest of the coaches listed yet he will be in the top 10...

[jvan1973]

That is not the only measuring stick. Parcells only has a .570 winning percentage which I guarantee will be either the lowest or among the lowest of the coaches listed yet he will be in the top 10...

so, what are you basing your opinion on?

[amfootball]

dungy has the ninth highest winning percentage in the history of the NFL

I think what hurts Dungy is the fact that as soon as he left Tampa, Gruden stepped in and won the SB. Then he had all those years with Peyton and all those one and done's and as soon as he leaves, Caldwell steps in and goes 14-0 which should have been 16-0. Then you have Coughlin who won not one but two SBs with Eli!  I think most view Dungy as coming up short when he had teams that should have been winning championships...At least that is the way I view him.

[jvan1973]

I think what hurts Dungy is the fact that as soon as he left Tampa, Gruden stepped in and won the SB. Then he had all those years with Peyton and all those one and done's and as soon as he leaves, Caldwell steps in and goes 14-0 which should have been 16-0. Then you have Coughlin who won not one but two SBs with Eli! I think most view Dungy as coming up short when he had teams that should have been winning championships...At least that is the way I view him.

how many rings did Reeves win with Elway?

[chad72]

Well, where do I start?

 

Dungy's credit as a coach came more from what Caldwell could not do. Dungy did make half time adjustments which led to his era Colts doing real well after the half. With the same Peyton Manning, Caldwell's post half adjustments were not quite the same.

 

A lot of games were won in the 3rd qtr. under Dungy's era. In Caldwell's era, we dug a lot of holes to get out of the 4th qtr. caused in the 3rd qtr. and while we won all those games in the 4th qtr. (6, I think) with Peyton in 2009, we lost 4 out of 5 in terms of 4th qtr. deficits in 2010.

 

Dungy's background was defensive backs, our pass D with our pass rush and even with Ron Meeks, was pretty good. However, it came at the cost of run D. Either Dungy or Polian had to bear fault there for not shopping for the right groceries there. Peyton's INTs went down in the regular season with Dungy as head coach and Caldwell as QB coach, and if it were Dungy, I felt we would have gone for the perfect season and not laid down during the Jets game. He went for it till the Chargers game in 2005 and did not rest till we lost.

 

But I do agree that when compared to other coaches like Belichick, Sean Payton, Mike McCarthy, Tom Coughlin etc., the ability to outfox someone on game day was not high on Dungy's list of strengths.

 

Because of his calm demeanor and ability to treat his players as grown up men, when he had enough talent in the team, he was able to keep his teams focused and generate a lot of wins. However, the same calm demeanor suggesting "do the same thing you do" more often did not work when all the marbles were on the line in the playoffs.

 

Besides, the Dungy coaching tree with Lovie Smith and Mike Tomlin definitely has produced more results than the Bill Belichick coaching tree. I think he deserves where he is ranked.

[amfootball]

how many rings did Reeves win with Elway?

• I do not base the greatest coaches of all time just on SB wins. Perhaps you don’t know Reeves history too well. Here are some of his highlights that clearly put him in the top 20 and ahead of Dungy:

  • After acquiring quarterback John Elway in a trade, Reeves guided the Broncos to six post-season appearances, five divisional titles, three AFC championships and three Super Bowl appearances (Super Bowl XXI, XXII and XXIV) during his 12-year tenure.
  • He was the only AFC coach in the decade of the 1980s to lead his team to consecutive Super Bowl berths and his Broncos appeared in the Super Bowl three times during a span of four years.
  • Reeves served as New York Giants head coach from 1993-1996. In his first season he led the Giants to an 11–5 record and a berth in the playoffs. Reeves' 1993 season record is the best ever for a first-year Giants coach. Reeves was named the 1993 Associated Press Coach of the Year after helping the Giants improve from a 6-10 record in 1992.
  • In 1997 Reeves was named the head coach of the Atlanta Falcons. Under his command the team, which had finished the 1996 campaign with a 3–13 record, steadily improved. After going 7-9 his first season, Reeves took Atlanta to the greatest season in franchise history.
  • The Falcons went 14–2 in 1998, going on to capture their first NFC championship. Reeves coached the Falcons to a 12–2 record before being hospitalized for the final two regular season games to undergo quadruple-bypass heart surgery in December. Reeves managed to return to the sidelines just three weeks later to lead the Falcons to victory in their first NFC Championship. Reeves' Falcons were pitched against the Denver Broncos and lost Super Bowl XXXIII 34-19. In the process, Reeves earned the NFL's top coaching awards as he was named the 1998 NFL Coach of the Year.

[Yehoodi]

I think more of the credit should go to Peyton.  When you have Peyton running your offense, your defense can play more aggressively and take more risks since they are confident the offense will put up more points.  He also covers up poor offensive line play with a quick release and good audibles.  Dungy did build Tampa, but he didn't win with them.  Gruden won with them.  As for Indy, I don't think Dungy really built the Colts.  Polian built them and Peyton did a lot.  The defense wasn't consistently stout (especially against the run), but the team relied on Peyton to help get wins.  I could have been on the coaching staff and the team would have still gotten a number of wins simply because of Peyton being Peyton.  I'm not trying to say I'm anywhere near Dungy's level as a coach, but I think most of the credit for Indy's success under Dungy should be credited to Peyton

 

Yes, Peyton did help the team and yes having a great QB like Peyton helps out the rest of the team and allows the D to get frisky . . . but Peyton was with the colts for 4 seasons prior to Dungy coming to the team and were coached by Coach Mora . . .

 

Here are the win totals for Mora and Dungy

 

Mora 3, 13, 10, 6 . . .

 

Dungy 10, 12, 12, 14, 12, 13, 12 . . .

 

So Dungy never had a losing season and you can see that before he arrived the Colts had two losing seasons and Peyton was on the team for those two losing season.  Every great QB needs a great coach and vice versa . . . so yes Peyton did help a lot, but I gotta give some credit to the coaching for the some of the wins . . . also during Dungy's tenure the colts had a top 10/11 D in points and yards for 4 of his 7 years as a coach . . . So Dungy helped the team on D and Peyton helped on offense . . .

 

So for me, just as any great QB/Coach tandem they each help each other and also helped the team to success . . .

 

I can't say for 100% sure about the drafting, you may be correct, but I thought that Dungy had some input on many of the draft picks after he came to the team . . .

 

Interestingly Coach Dungy success is not much that different than Coach Madden . .  .had great success, had a great team (70s Raiders) and star QB (Stabler), one SB victory, many divisional titles and a few CG losses . . .

 

my guess is that Madden might be on this list and if he is, then one can see Dungy being there too . . .

[jvan1973]

• I do not base the greatest coaches of all time just on SB wins. Perhaps you don’t know Reeves history too well. Here are some of his highlights that clearly put him in the top 20 and ahead of Dungy:

• After acquiring quarterback John Elway in a trade, Reeves guided the Broncos to six post-season appearances, five divisional titles, three AFC championships and three Super Bowl appearances (Super Bowl XXI, XXII and XXIV) during his 12-year tenure.
• He was the only AFC coach in the decade of the 1980s to lead his team to consecutive Super Bowl berths and his Broncos appeared in the Super Bowl three times during a span of four years.
• Reeves served as New York Giants head coach from 1993-1996. In his first season he led the Giants to an 11–5 record and a berth in the playoffs. Reeves' 1993 season record is the best ever for a first-year Giants coach. Reeves was named the 1993 Associated Press Coach of the Year after helping the Giants improve from a 6-10 record in 1992.
• In 1997 Reeves was named the head coach of the Atlanta Falcons. Under his command the team, which had finished the 1996 campaign with a 3–13 record, steadily improved. After going 7-9 his first season, Reeves took Atlanta to the greatest season in franchise history.
• The Falcons went 14–2 in 1998, going on to capture their first NFC championship. Reeves coached the Falcons to a 12–2 record before being hospitalized for the final two regular season games to undergo quadruple-bypass heart surgery in December. Reeves managed to return to the sidelines just three weeks later to lead the Falcons to victory in their first NFC Championship. Reeves' Falcons were pitched against the Denver Broncos and lost Super Bowl XXXIII 34-19. In the process, Reeves earned the NFL's top coaching awards as he was named the 1998 NFL Coach of the Year.

would you like me to copy and paste all of dungys accomplishments

[amfootball]

would you like me to copy and paste all of dungys accomplishments

Sure if you would like. If he has FOUR SB appearances with two different teams in two different conferences than we can debate....he doesn't.