Details on RJF's contract -- FINALLY

[Superman]

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/5122/ricky-jean-francois

 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/indianapolis-colts/ricky-jean-francois/

 

We knew it was four years, $22m already. The signing bonus is $5.5m, and 2013 base salary is guaranteed.

 

Here's the structure:

Cap hit comes in lower than I expected. Puts our total active contracts + cap penalties - 2012 rollover at $115.6m, and our actual cap number (top 51 contracts + cap penalties - 2012 rollover) at $106.1m. Leaves us with approximately $17m in cap space.

Year     Base salary       Bonus        Cap Hit2013     $1m               $1.375m      $2.375m2014     $4.5m             $1.375m      $5.875m2015     $5.5m             $1.375m      $6.875m2016     $5.5m             $1.375m      $6.875m 

 

Edit: There's new information from two different outlets that alters this contract structure, so here goes:

 

Contract is still four years, $22m. But the signing bonus is only $2.5m, plus a 2013 roster bonus of $3m, plus a guaranteed 2013 base salary of $1m. Cash in Year 1 is still the same, but less of that bonus gets prorated to future years. In exchange the Year 1 cap hit is a little higher than we previously thought.

 

Here's the structure:

 

Year     Base salary   Signing Bonus    Misc Bonus    Cap Hit2013     $1m           $0.625m          $3m           $4.625m2014     $4.5m         $0.625m                        $5.125m2015     $5.5m         $0.625m                        $6.125m2016     $5.5m         $0.625m                        $6.125m 

Puts our total active contracts + cap penalties - 2012 rollover at $117.85m, and our actual cap number (top 51 contracts + cap penalties - 2012 rollover) at $108.35m. Leaves us with approximately $14.65m in cap space.

 

*** Disclaimer: Spotrac is the primary source for these numbers and totals, but they don't account for AQ Shipley's contract, so the totals are probably off by about $500k.

 

 

[Derakynn]

Sweet so we have more than a previously reported.

[Tark The Shark]

17 million roughly?

 

Better than I originally thought.

[Bulldog2012]

Superman....any idea why most of the FA contracts were signed at 4 years?  Does it give the Colts an opportunity to cut the player after a couple years without having to take a cap hit? I have know idea how all that works.  Thanks!

[lollygagger8]

Unreported bonus:

 

Free pizza buffet for life, which roughly equates to probably 8 million against the belt.

[Luck_Is_Skilled]

17 million roughly?

Better than I originally thought.

Yeah, that would make it all the more damning if we don't end up with a splashy reciever after all this speculation.

And by splashy, I hope its not a Miami Dolphin.

[Superman]

Superman....any idea why most of the FA contracts were signed at 4 years?  Does it give the Colts an opportunity to cut the player after a couple years without having to take a cap hit? I have know idea how all that works.  Thanks!

 

The length of the contract has little effect on what the potential cap penalty is in the event of a release, but it does affect the way the signing bonus is divided. If you have a $5m signing bonus on a three year contract, the bonus counts for $1.67m against the cap each year. But if you have the same bonus on a four year contract, it counts for $1.25m each year.

 

I'm not sure exactly why they settled on four years for most of these contracts (Cherilus got five, Toler got three, Sidbury got one; I think everyone else got four). But in terms of flexibility moving forward, all of these contracts are somewhat team friendly if someone gets released or traded at some point.

[throwing BBZ]

From Spotrac Gosder Cherlios

 

Contract:5 yr(s) / $34,500,000 Signing Bonus $10,000,000 Average Salary $6,900,000

End Year:2017

 

$15.5 million guaranteed (signing bonus + 2013 base)

 

  Year    Base       S. Bonus Misc.      Cap Hit      Dead $$

  2013  5,500,000    2,000,000 -    7,500,000   15,500,000

  2014  1,000,000    2,000,000 -    3,000,000   8,000,000

  2015  4,000,000    2,000,000 -    6,000,000     6,000,000

  2016  7,000,000    2,000,000 -    9,000,000     4,000,000

  2017  7,000,000    2,000,000      9,000,000     2,000,000

 

We can cut him after year 3.
But we would lose $4M of Cap space that year to get the last two years of his $2M per pro-rated signing bonus off the books.
Cut him after 4 years and a $2M Cap hit.

Here is the link to look at other player contracts.
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/indianapolis-colts/

 

A link explaining dead $$$
http://www.steelersdepot.com/2012/03/explaining-salary-cap-dead-money/

[Tark The Shark]

Yeah, that would make it all the more darning if we don't end up with a splashy reciever after all this speculation.

And by splashy, I hope its not a Miami Dolphin.

 

I wouldn't expect a splashy receiver if I were you.

 

I would expect a guy who isn't well known around the league but is a hard worker, fits the offensive scheme, and doesn't cost a whole lot.

[Balzer40]

I wouldn't expect a splashy receiver if I were you.

 

I would expect a guy who isn't well known around the league but is a hard worker, fits the offensive scheme, and doesn't cost a whole lot.

 

 

With the exception of Cruz and Fitzgerald, who were never options to begin with IMO, I would take Ramses Barden over any other receiver that has been suggested over the last few days. He's big, young, and cheap.

[SLILLINGTON10]

17 million seems like so much until you think Luck will be making about 4 million more than that a year in a few year.

[throwing BBZ]

Actually, if you cut the person after June 1 and before the season starts you can take a $2m Cap hit when u cut and a $2M Cap hit the next year.

[throwing BBZ]

With the exception of Cruz and Fitzgerald, who were never options to begin with IMO, I would take Ramses Barden over any other receiver that has been suggested over the last few days. He's big, young, and cheap.

 

 One serious man crush on Ramses. We do need a 10 TD receiver. Not named Hilton.

[Icelandic_Colt]

Kuharsky's reporting it's actually a 2.5 million signing bonus and a 3 million roster bonus. If true, cap hits are as follows:

2013: $1M Base, $3M RB, $625.000 SB = $4.625.000

2014: $4.5 Base, $625.000 SB = $5.125.000

2015: $5.5 Base, $625.000 SB = $6.125.000

2016: $5.5 Base, $625.000 SB = $6.125.000

Total: $22M

Just like Walden's deal, we have very little fallout after year 1 in terms of dead money, in case he gets cut, because only the bonus money is guaranteed.

Let's see if Spotrac update their version or if Kuharsky got it wrong.

[Fx Stryker]

Finally. I'll be adding his contract, and sending you the updated chart for the FA thread Superman.

[Superman]

Kuharsky's reporting it's actually a 2.5 million signing bonus and a 3 million roster bonus. If true, cap hits are as follows:

2013: $1M Base, $3M RB, $625.000 SB = $4.625.000

2014: $4.5 Base, $625.000 SB = $5.125.000

2015: $5.5 Base, $625.000 SB = $6.125.000

2016: $5.5 Base, $625.000 SB = $6.125.000

Total: $22M

Just like Walden's deal, we have very little fallout after year 1 in terms of dead money, in case he gets cut, because only the bonus money is guaranteed.

Let's see if Spotrac update their version or if Kuharsky got it wrong.

 

I hope Kuharsky is right. And it would be awesome if they did something like that with Cherilus contract as well.

[Superman]

Finally. I'll be adding his contract, and sending you the updated chart for the FA thread Superman.

 

Hold off for a bit. There's conflicting information on the details now.

[Balzer40]

 One serious man crush on Ramses. We do need a 10 TD receiver. Not named Hilton.

 

 

 

Yep, I do like Barden's size and I salivate at the possibilities of having a huge WR to play opposite of Reggie with Hilton in the slot. I don't think WR is a big priority and if we don't get one, I think we'll be fine, but if were going to get one, why not get a guy that's taller than 6'0" and bring something different instead of another tiny WR that were loaded with already?

[Icelandic_Colt]

From Spotrac Gosder Cherlios

 

Contract:5 yr(s) / $34,500,000 Signing Bonus $10,000,000 Average Salary $6,900,000

End Year:2017

 

$15.5 million guaranteed (signing bonus + 2013 base)

 

  Year    Base       S. Bonus Misc.      Cap Hit      Dead $$

  2013  5,500,000    2,000,000 -    7,500,000   15,500,000

  2014  1,000,000    2,000,000 -    3,000,000   8,000,000

  2015  4,000,000    2,000,000 -    6,000,000     6,000,000

  2016  7,000,000    2,000,000 -    9,000,000     4,000,000

  2017  7,000,000    2,000,000      9,000,000     2,000,000

 

We can cut him after year 3.

But we would lose $4M of Cap space that year to get the last two years of his $2M per pro-rated signing bonus off the books.

Cut him after 4 years and a $2M Cap hit.

Here is the link to look at other player contracts.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/indianapolis-colts/

 

A link explaining dead $$$

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2012/03/explaining-salary-cap-dead-money/

We could also cut him after June 1 in 2016 and spread the cap hit over the remaning two years of his deal - $2M in 2016 and and $2M in 2017 in dead money, whilst getting rid of his rather large base salary at the same time.

[Andy]

Much better than I thought.

 

This has turned into a very solid signing overall.

[Fx Stryker]

So these are the definite numbers?

[Superman]

So these are the definite numbers?

 

I don't know. Spotrac says one thing (that's what this breakdown is based on), Kuharsky and Rotoworld says another. I'll go with the two sources over the one for now. I'm going to change my post and then you can base your chart off of that.

[Fx Stryker]

I don't know. Spotrac says one thing (that's what this breakdown is based on), Kuharsky and Rotoworld says another. I'll go with the two sources over the one for now. I'm going to change my post and then you can base your chart off of that.

 

I wonder why RJF's contract has been so secretive. 

[BlueShoe]

I like how we are front-loading contracts.

From Spotrac Gosder Cherlios

 

Contract:5 yr(s) / $34,500,000 Signing Bonus $10,000,000 Average Salary $6,900,000

End Year:2017

 

$15.5 million guaranteed (signing bonus + 2013 base)

 

  Year    Base       S. Bonus Misc.      Cap Hit      Dead $$

  2013  5,500,000    2,000,000 -    7,500,000   15,500,000

  2014  1,000,000    2,000,000 -    3,000,000   8,000,000

  2015  4,000,000    2,000,000 -    6,000,000     6,000,000

  2016  7,000,000    2,000,000 -    9,000,000     4,000,000

  2017  7,000,000    2,000,000      9,000,000     2,000,000

 

We can cut him after year 3.
But we would lose $4M of Cap space that year to get the last two years of his $2M per pro-rated signing bonus off the books.
Cut him after 4 years and a $2M Cap hit.

Here is the link to look at other player contracts.
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/indianapolis-colts/

 

A link explaining dead $$$
http://www.steelersdepot.com/2012/03/explaining-salary-cap-dead-money/

[Mameluc]

sweet jesus why didnt we frontloaded the RFJ contract? considering the amount of cap space we have this year + future signings of davis castonzo bethea and eventually luck and TY it might have been a better idea to get most of the hit now and not in 3 years...

 

there is a probably a reason, grigs and company know better but at first impression i think it would make sense

[Superman]

I wonder why RJF's contract has been so secretive. 

 

It's usually the agents leaking details on contracts, and the money hasn't been as high this free agent period as most expected. So a lot of details have been slow to be fully reported. But this contract actually works out pretty nicely for the player. Maybe expectations were higher than this. That also explains why Walden's details were released so fast.

 

Anyways, the OP has been updated to reflect the change. I actually like the new breakdown better, but it uses about $2.25m more cap space in 2013.

[BlueShoe]

My guess is because after 4 years we are going to have to pay Luck about 20 million a year. I believe our thought process is to surround Luck with everything we can and then in year 6, he is going to have to carry the team just as Peyton did.

The length of the contract has little effect on what the potential cap penalty is in the event of a release, but it does affect the way the signing bonus is divided. If you have a $5m signing bonus on a three year contract, the bonus counts for $1.67m against the cap each year. But if you have the same bonus on a four year contract, it counts for $1.25m each year.

 

I'm not sure exactly why they settled on four years for most of these contracts (Cherilus got five, Toler got three, Sidbury got one; I think everyone else got four). But in terms of flexibility moving forward, all of these contracts are somewhat team friendly if someone gets released or traded at some point.

[Superman]

sweet jesus why didnt we frontloaded the RFJ contract? considering the amount of cap space we have this year + future signings of davis castonzo bethea and eventually luck and TY it might have been a better idea to get most of the hit now and not in 3 years...

 

there is a probably a reason, grigs and company know better but at first impression i think it would make sense

 

According to Kuharsky, we did, somewhat.

[Superman]

My guess is because after 4 years we are going to have to pay Luck about 20 million a year. I believe our thought process is to surround Luck with everything we can and then in year 6, he is going to have to carry the team just as Peyton did.

 

Luck's deal expires after 2015. We have a team option for a fifth year, which will be a pretty high cap hit if we carry it in 2016.

 

But you still have to put a team around your quarterback. I understand why people are concerned about paying one player a lot of money, but that's the nature of the business. There are a lot of teams in the NFL paying premium money for their quarterback who are still able to pay other players good money. We had several players who were "the highest paid at their position" around Manning.

 

The kind of contracts we've given out this offseason aren't the kind that would preclude us from being able to pay the quarterback $20m/year.

[BlueShoe]

I am sure we will not see the fifth year of Lucks deal, as they will want to lock him up, and not let him enter a contract year. I don’t disagree with anything you’re saying. It is how the NFL works. I never said it wasn’t. My point was that I believe we are setting these contracts up the way we are right now, because the front office knows that a big payday for Luck is coming, and they are preparing for it. We don’t want to be in the Ravens cap troubles.

Luck's deal expires after 2015. We have a team option for a fifth year, which will be a pretty high cap hit if we carry it in 2016.

 

But you still have to put a team around your quarterback. I understand why people are concerned about paying one player a lot of money, but that's the nature of the business. There are a lot of teams in the NFL paying premium money for their quarterback who are still able to pay other players good money. We had several players who were "the highest paid at their position" around Manning.

 

The kind of contracts we've given out this offseason aren't the kind that would preclude us from being able to pay the quarterback $20m/year.

[Superman]

I am sure we will not see the fifth year of Lucks deal, as they will want to lock him up, and not let him enter a contract year. I don’t disagree with anything you’re saying. It is how the NFL works. I never said it wasn’t. My point was that I believe we are setting these contracts up the way we are right now, because the front office knows that a big payday for Luck is coming, and they are preparing for it. We don’t want to be in the Ravens cap troubles.

 

I got your point. Was just pointing out that you can pay a quarterback $20m a year and still be okay. Especially as the cap goes up in coming years.

 

Also, a lot is being made of the Ravens not being able to keep their guys because of Flacco's contract. As much as I don't think he should be paid what he's being paid, his contract is very team friendly in 2013 ($6.8m). Suggs has a cap hit nearly twice as high. Haloti Ngata is hitting for $11.5m in 2013. The Ravens can make some moves to free up cap space if they want. But the reason they are letting players walk and getting rid of others is because they had a tight situation to contend with, even before Flacco's contract was done. Has very little to do with what they're paying him.

[BlueShoe]

I got your point. Was just pointing out that you can pay a quarterback $20m a year and still be okay. Especially as the cap goes up in coming years.

 

Also, a lot is being made of the Ravens not being able to keep their guys because of Flacco's contract. As much as I don't think he should be paid what he's being paid, his contract is very team friendly in 2013 ($6.8m). Suggs has a cap hit nearly twice as high. Haloti Ngata is hitting for $11.5m in 2013. The Ravens can make some moves to free up cap space if they want. But the reason they are letting players walk and getting rid of others is because they had a tight situation to contend with, even before Flacco's contract was done. Has very little to do with what they're paying him.

 

I am not signing checks so it is not my money, but this is a league where you either pay an elite quarterback (when you’re lucky to grab one) a handsome ransom or you have money and no quarterback. Obviously this league is quarterback driven. Some situations just are what they are, and elite quarterbacks have to carry their teams, after their first deal ends, and that is because of the money they are making. Right now 20 million dollars is 6th of a team’s salary cap. It is just the way it is. We have an opportunity to take advantage of Lucks cap friendly deal right now, and I believe that is what we are doing.

 

Flacco’s contract is going to hit the Ravens soon and they will feel it. We were able to keep paying Peyton big money because he was talented enough to be successful as we brought in draft picks and undrafted free agents. I believe Luck is made of the same mold. I am not sure Flacco is.

[Superman]

I am not signing checks so it is not my money, but this is a league where you either pay an elite quarterback (when you’re lucky to grab one) a handsome ransom or you have money and no quarterback. Obviously this league is quarterback driven. Some situations just are what they are, and elite quarterbacks have to carry their teams, after their first deal ends, and that is because of the money they are making. Right now 20 million dollars is 6th of a team’s salary cap. It is just the way it is. We have an opportunity to take advantage of Lucks cap friendly deal right now, and I believe that is what we are doing.

 

Flacco’s contract is going to hit the Ravens soon and they will feel it. We were able to keep paying Peyton big money because he was talented enough to be successful as we brought in draft picks and undrafted free agents. I believe Luck is made of the same mold. I am not sure Flacco is.

 

I'd bet $120.6m that he's not (wish I had it).

 

I agree wholeheartedly; you have to pay your quarterback, especially when he's worth it. Manning always was and still is, Brady is, Brees is, Rodgers is, etc.

 

My only point is that I don't agree with the general consensus that you can't have other good players if you have a top tier quarterback. I agree that you can't be major players in free agency, and you have a smaller margin for error in the draft, and you can't afford to make mistakes with your own free agents. But there's still plenty of room to field a strong team around a top tier quarterback.

 

What's going to suck for the Ravens is when this talent bleed catches up to them, and they miss on a couple of draft picks, and Flacco is exposed as being a pretty good quarterback who can't carry a mediocre team, and then they're stuck in the doldrums. But the talent bleed isn't because of Flacco. Not yet.

[Fx Stryker]

Superman is cap space the league room, $123M, plus our carry over, $3.5M, minus dead money, $5,657,004, minus our total contracts, $113,370,047, our minus or top 51 contracts, $103,979,547?

[dgambill]

The raven's situation is just like the Steelers. It isn't Flacco...its the aging defense that all matured together. All got big contracts together...and finally like any team they have to let talent go. That defense was packed to the gills with big contracts...they knew they had to wait on Flacco because they couldn't afford him any sooner without cutting it. They got that last cheap year out of him and he and they both cashed in. They got the SB they probably were in contention for the last 3 years and he got his big contract. Either part ways with a franchise qb or hold over a bunch of aging defensive vets. Its a no brainer. In a couple years we will have to choose who to pay...and it will be Luck. The difference is we hope to have a lot of young relative inexpensive talent surrounding him and not expensive vets. That Ravens defense was coming to an end one way or another....at least they got a SB out of it....Pittsburg didn't even sniff the playoffs.

[BlueShoe]

I'd bet $120.6m that he's not (wish I had it).

 

I agree wholeheartedly; you have to pay your quarterback, especially when he's worth it. Manning always was and still is, Brady is, Brees is, Rodgers is, etc.

 

My only point is that I don't agree with the general consensus that you can't have other good players if you have a top tier quarterback. I agree that you can't be major players in free agency, and you have a smaller margin for error in the draft, and you can't afford to make mistakes with your own free agents. But there's still plenty of room to field a strong team around a top tier quarterback.

 

What's going to suck for the Ravens is when this talent bleed catches up to them, and they miss on a couple of draft picks, and Flacco is exposed as being a pretty good quarterback who can't carry a mediocre team, and then they're stuck in the doldrums. But the talent bleed isn't because of Flacco. Not yet.

 

Ah there it is. I never said, a team couldn’t have good players and have an elite quarterback. That said, I don’t believe there is “plenty” of cap room when you have an elite quarterback; not if a team is playing for a Super Bowl. I believe that a team paying big money to an elite quarterback has to lean heavy on the draft and pick up value in free agency. No big splashes. Holding onto your own becomes harder. Right now we have about 16 million extra on the cap that we won’t have after Lucks rookie deal. We are not going to severely backload a contract on a player like Luck while he is in his mid-twenties so he is going to get the money just like Peyton did, and that will show on the cap.

[Superman]

Superman is cap space the league room, $123M, plus our carry over, $3.5M, minus dead money, $5,657,004, minus our total contracts, $113,370,047, our minus or top 51 contracts, $103,979,547?

 

Don't know if I follow that.

 

We have total active contracts + dead money of $119m. Subtract $3.5m for 2012 rollover = $115.5m in net active contracts.

 

The actual cap figure is top 51 contracts ($104m) + dead money = $109.6m, subtract $3.5m for 2012 rollover = $106.1m cap figure.

[Superman]

Ah there it is. I never said, a team couldn’t have good players and have an elite quarterback. That said, I don’t believe there is “plenty” of cap room when you have an elite quarterback; not if a team is playing for a Super Bowl. I believe that a team paying big money to an elite quarterback has to lean heavy on the draft and pick up value in free agency. No big splashes. Holding onto your own becomes harder. Right now we have about 16 million extra on the cap that we won’t have after Lucks rookie deal. We are not going to severely backload a contract on a player like Luck while he is in his mid-twenties so he is going to get the money just like Peyton did, and that will show on the cap.

 

We're on the same page. I think I'm reading right to left, and you're reading left to right. But we are in agreement.

[Fx Stryker]

Don't know if I follow that.

 

We have total active contracts + dead money of $119m. Subtract $3.5m for 2012 rollover = $115.5m in net active contracts.

 

The actual cap figure is top 51 contracts ($104m) + dead money = $109.6m, subtract $3.5m for 2012 rollover = $106.1m cap figure.

 

Yea, I could have broken that down a lot better.

 

With the new RJF hit of $4.265M thetop 51 should be at $106.2M.

 

Also check the message I sent you a couple days ago in about 15 minutes, I just edited the message for the new OP.

[BlueShoe]

We're on the same page. I think I'm reading right to left, and you're reading left to right. But we are in agreement.

 

I was wondering where you were heading with all of this, and had a feeling we would end up in the same spot.