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Peyton & Stem Cell Therapy [Merge]

Malakai432

By Malakai432
in Colts Football

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21isSuperman Walk On

21isSuperman

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http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/18/before-surgery-peyton-manning-flew-to-europe-for-stem-cell-therapy/

Apparently he went for a treatment that is not approved in the States so he could prevent having the 3rd surgery, but the treatment didn't work and he had the surgery. I don't think this is a major story; he tried a treatment that didn't work and he had the surgery.

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doogansquest Walk On

doogansquest

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As far as I know, there isn't any solid scientific basis that it works... which is why it isn't available in the States.

Which is exactly why we shouldn't rush to spend billions of taxpayer dollars to fund it's use.

America's government may be struggling, but it's one bounced check compared to the financial hemorrhage that is EU governing dynamics.

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HGRekks Walk On

HGRekks

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I love the way some threads turn into politics, which I'm pretty sure is against the forum rules.

Regardless, it's an experimental treatment in the first place. It's a relatively young science and we're a good deal away from being finished with it. Being such, it's not entirely surprising it hasn't worked. It's good to know Peyton wants to get back as quickly as he can.

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bayone Walk On

bayone

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My layman's understanding of it is the idea is the stem cells will regenerate and replace damaged cells.

Basically yes, idea is that a stem cell is universal, and once placed where supposed to be ( being very simplistic here ) it can differentiate, that is change & mature into a working new cell of the type needed where implanted into injured tissue

Picture a universal building part that can fit anywhere , ( again being simplistic here )

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IndyLady Walk On

IndyLady

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This does not impress me and frankly i don't care if he ever plays again. Maybe he could eat a steady diet of fetus as well

This is a conservative state. I was wondering if anyone would actually understand what he did (if in fact he did). Most people don't know (or care) about where the cells come from. It's one thing to get cadaver parts from someone who has lived their life; it's another to get live cells. God help us.

:blueshoe: IndyLady :blueshoe:

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Peyton and Eli fan Walk On

Peyton and Eli fan

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This is a conservative state. I was wondering if anyone would actually understand what he did (if in fact he did). Most people don't know (or care) about where the cells come from. It's one thing to get cadaver parts from someone who has lived their life; it's another to get live cells. God help us.

:blueshoe: IndyLady :blueshoe:

They can take stem cells from Peyton's own bone marrow. We really don't know what it involved and it's not our business anyway.

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NM_Colts Walk On

NM_Colts

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This is a conservative state. I was wondering if anyone would actually understand what he did (if in fact he did). Most people don't know (or care) about where the cells come from. It's one thing to get cadaver parts from someone who has lived their life; it's another to get live cells. God help us.

:blueshoe: IndyLady :blueshoe:

The following info came from this article: "The stem-cell treatment does not use embryonic stem cells, which have caused so much consternation in the U.S., but rather cells from Manning's own body. Doctors harvest the cells, expand them and then put them into the body.

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nsurg Practice Squad

nsurg

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As correctly stated earlier, stem cells can be derived from multiple sources. If they are not from one's own body the immune system is more likely to reject them, and I think it's a safe assumption that manning would not have tried a therapy that would have required immunosuppressants!

While it's true that europe can be more innovative than the US for human clinical trials, that's not always a good thing. Our FDA and medical system is so paralyzed by a need for perfection relative to billions of wasted money in litigation that it is very tedious to provide innovation unless somebody else proves it works in a different country.

For what it's worth, I do have a pretty solid background in neurophysiology as part of my training, and I have published animal studies for brain and spinal cord injury. While I would love to adopt a therapy for allowing nerve recovery (which is probably easier obtained than spinal cord let alone brain recovery), stem cells will not be the answer for a very long time. The hope for the next 20 years will be preventing, minimizing, and partially reversing acute injury; chronic injury requires healing which requires restoration of complex systems. I sometimes joke that treating brain disease by placing stem cells in the brain is a lot like treating your slow computer by opening it up and dropping a bunch of random wires or microchips inside. It's one thing obtaining the cells and implanting them, but it says nothing about how those cells will connect. Outside of the brain, a single neuron can basically be thought of as a complex wire; the function of the wire is important, but the connections (sometimes literally several feet away) are the elegance and complexity. Reproducing this is rather difficult. You can't really cut your HDMI cable in half and then solder it together with one lump of metal, and a nerve is much more complex still than that.

Regenerating a nerve would require hundreds of individual axons recovering and traveling a distance of over a foot or more (manning has pretty long arms) to reach individual muscle fibers; and that's assuming the fibers are still going to work weeks or months after having had no innervation. Sometimes they simply don't recover. Other portions of muscle can hypertrophy to compensate to allow good strength, but sometimes the fine movement can be lacking.

If it's true that he went for "stem cell" therapy, it means only a few things that I can think of:

--He may be desperate?

--There may be some real concern that he is nowhere close to good enough for triceps strength?

--He may be overwhelmed with "advice" from all angles?

Honestly, I'm a bit depressed to hear this story. If after 3 months from his May surgery he was trying things like this (which I can nearly promise is not at the advice of any of his or the team's doctors), the arm must have been bad. The honest truth is, I don't see patients who have significant weakness 3 months after surgery show much additional recovery after that, even when their nerves are perfectly decompressed. More surgery simply allows for further decompression. Nobody can fix a nerve, one simply addresses physical compression.

While I have no doubt that manning will be allowed to play eventually, I am pretty concerned that it may not be at the level of arm strength he was used to. I agree that younger, healthier patients can have better recovery; but that must be balanced against the very fine differences in arm velocity between a high school QB and an elite pro QB. Hope I'm wrong.

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