Eye opening stats about Mannings postseason career

[tonychen]

The Volek Chargers game they had 4 chances inside the 10 to take the lead and ran the ball 3 times and never scored.

The one in SD Manning got sacked when we could have iced the game. I think a TE blew a block so it's fair to give him a pass there.

The Pittsburg game he took a couple deep shots in short yardage when they could have just tried to get closer for a FG. Vandy missed the kick. Really though they played awful on offense in that game and never should have been it. The overturned INT was a horrible call and a huge gift.

The Jets game above of course. A first down seals that game as long as Vinny makes the kick.

Some of these games should have never came to this though. There were opportunities missed throughout the game. This past weekends game i go back to the 3rd qtr after the Flacco fumble gave them great field position with a 7 point lead. Manning did nothing with it. The next possession, he fumbled. He could have put the game away early.

 

Leading by 7pts manning fumbled and gave Ravens a gift. They scored a TD right away. I just have no idea why he couldn't be a little careful since it was not like they were trailing.

[GoPats]

“Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are pliable.”
― Mark Twain

 

 

Pretty much any argument can be made by taking statistics and kind of cherry-picking what supports one's case and what doesn't. But it's hard to explain 9-11 as "bad luck," like the Bleacher Report article did.

[tonychen]

“Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are pliable.”

― Mark Twain

 

 

Pretty much any argument can be made by taking statistics and kind of cherry-picking what supports one's case and what doesn't. But it's hard to explain 9-11 as "bad luck," like the Bleacher Report article did.

 

any coincidence if happens yr after yr for so many time can no longer be called coincidence

[dw49]

I still believe the old saying "live by the sword, die by the sword".  It's Manning's total control of the offense that makes him great and it's his total control that bites him.  Irsay realized that and that's why you see him building a better team around Luck.    

 

 

 

Your saying that Irsay didn't try to build the best team possible in the PM years ? 

[tonychen]

Your saying that Irsay didn't try to build the best team possible in the PM years ? 

 

When they had Manning they did several things: 1.Building a pass-rush-based defense assuming Manning can give them a lead 2.Selecting RBs and OL assuming pass protection is the priority. They also kinda failed to add enough talent 05-11 since almost all 1st rounders never panned out are mostly gone by now. Always drafting in 25-32 also played a role. The team was 2-14 in 2011 without Manning for some reasons, and a lack of talent was a major one.

 

As Luck cannot mask the problems as good as Manning and will need more help, they will have to build a better team, which will be a very nice thing after Luck gains more experience and improves.

[ADayWithoutRain]

He absolutely cost us the superbowl(the aint's).We were marchin' down the field by running,but noooooooooooooooo that just wasn't good enough for p-money.He also wanted to be the MVP(HE REALIZED ADDAI WOULD GET THE GLORY) of that game too,so what does he do?He throws a pick six to porter in double coverage.The truth is...he's a stathog...always was,and he isn't happy with winning...only happy if he's the main reason behind the winning.

[Warhorse]

I have no issue for the OP as a comment, but I raise an eyebrow at it being it's own thread. It was a list of stats (facts). However, because the OP appears to be a Pats fan, there is a difference between posting those stats on a Pats board.....or on a Colts board or a Broncos board for that matter. To each his or her own, I guess. I have a hard time seeing that filling a need for fans here who simply are searching for proper stats on Manning's accomplishments in his career.

 

For the record, this board is trying to come back together and heal over losing a great player. Perhaps threads like this will help bring clarification, perhaps they will cause more division. Personally, I heal faster by pointing out positives, not negatives. But...life is great because of the vast diversity that exists and this forum reflects that at times.

[ADayWithoutRain]

But i'll tell all the patriot drones this much,if brady happens to make it to the superbowl and losses again,then the whole 0-3 in the superbowl since *spygate* will only get louder.Tommy has been chokin' lately as well,and with another superbowl loss and his image is tainted.

[tonychen]

He absolutely cost us the superbowl(the aint's).We were marchin' down the field by running,but noooooooooooooooo that just wasn't good enough for p-money.He also wanted to be the MVP(HE REALIZED ADDAI WOULD GET THE GLORY) of that game too,so what does he do?He throws a pick six to porter in double coverage.The truth is...he's a stathog...always was,and he isn't happy with winning...only happy if he's the main reason behind the winning.

 

dont think he did that intentionally for his stats, and i think he'd take the win in that game more than anything else. but generally he does like to prove to people he can do a lot of things people don't think he can do.

[tonychen]

But i'll tell all the patriot drones this much,if brady happens to make it to the superbowl and losses again,then the whole 0-3 in the superbowl since *spygate* will only get louder.Tommy has been chokin' lately as well,and with another superbowl loss and his image is tainted.

 

hope ravens can beat them to save them from this kind of issues.

[throwing BBZ]

Some of these made me go "wow".

----------

Manning has more home playoff losses than any other starting quarterback in playoff history: five.

Manning has a 1-8 record in playoff games that were one score games in the 4th quarter.

Manning's playoff record is 6-6 when his D gives up 21 or less in regulation. No other QB has more than 3 losses in that same senario.

Manning has 38 regular season 4th quarter comebacks, most of any QB since 1998. But only 1 in the playoffs.

Manning is the only SB winning QB to carry a losing record overall in post-season play. Jim McMahon is the next closest at 3-3.

Manning is the only QB to throw more INTs than TDs in playoff run and still win the Super Bowl (3Tds and 7INTs in 2006 playoffs)

Manning's QB rating during his 06 playoff run is the lowest of any SB winning QB

Manning has had a top 10 scoring defense in 6 of his 12 playoff seasons

----

Here's one.....

The thing is Indy's defense has them in position to win playoff games. They have allowed 21 points or less in regulation of 12 of their 19 playoff games under Peyton Manning. They lost 6 of those 12 games. That's the most prolific waste of defensive effort in the history of the NFL. 6 losses when the D allows 21 or less in regulation? No other QB has more than 3. Mannings winning % in those 11 games is .500; No other QB who has started more than 10 playoff games has a winning % below .600 when their D allows 21 or less in regulation. Most are well above .800.

For reference:

Marino 7-1

Elway 10-1

Brady 12-2

Montana 12-2

Young 4-1

Favre 11-1

Bart Starr 8-1

John Unitas 6-2

Terry Bradshaw 13-2

Bob Griese 6-2

Roger Staubach 11-3

Fran Tarkenton 6-2

Jim Kelly 6-2

Troy Aikman 10-1

Kerry Collins 3-1

Len Dawson 5-1

Jim Plunkett 7-2

Phil Simms 6-3

Donavan McNabb 9-2

Snowglobe, I posted on here a year or so ago this list about 21 points...

I was looking for it again the elast few days and couldn`t find it.

Would appreciate it if you could share the link.

[chad72]

dont think he did that intentionally for his stats, and i think he'd take the win in that game more than anything else. but generally he does like to prove to people he can do a lot of things people don't think he can do.

 

I agree on that part.

 

Even after that pick six drive ended, Brees still had thrown more passes than Peyton once he realized the Colts' run D was more stout (4th down stop before the half) that year than the pass D. Peyton ended up trailing on the scoreboard, and with the way Brees was marching down the field vs the Colts that day, he probably wanted to score quickly so that he may have to answer another future score of Brees, just guessing there. The Colts did run to go ahead 17-13 in that game, even after the onside kick.

 

The Saints going ahead by a TD had more to do with Addai becoming less of a factor than anything else, and the balance with the Colts offense up until that point prove it, numbers wise. Just goes to show you that once people have a negative opinion on Peyton on the whole, they will broadbrush every single thing he has done and second guess it thus losing objectivitiy. Here are drive stats in quarter 4 (Peyton threw 16 passes out of his 45 passes on those last 2 drives after he was down 17-24, Brees had already thrown 39 passes before Peyton started the drive down 17-24, so the Colts had 29 passes and 19 runs up until that point, which is balanced enough from a Colts point of view especially for a 32nd ranked rushing O that year)

 

http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=300207011&period=4

[JerodMayo51]

I found these equally as interesting.

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1484410-why-does-peyton-manning-always-come-up-short-in-the-playoffs

 

Sounds like a list of excuses for losing when it matters. 

[JerodMayo51]

yes the safety was a good distance from welker . . . if i remember the post game talk, the safety said he was confused as to what to do at that time, which in turn made him a little out of sorts with the rest of his 10 teammates as to where he was supposed to be positioned in that given defense, and thus made it tough on Brady to figure what he is doing as he is out of position . . . and Brady was injured too in the 4th qtr . . .

but regardless, Brady did not have to throw it to welker back shoulder, much less over compenstate . . . indeed a throw to his hands/leading him would of been a easy catch, first down surely, and maybe even a TD, with the later sealing the game . . .

Brady does well, but that throw is a bad memory for me . . . . . .

 

 

If Welker wants to be paid like Calvin Johnson, he needs to catch that period.  They always say if the receivers hands touch the ball, its catchable.  That was a very catchable ball...  perfect? Absolutely not, but it was still very catchable.  Welker's size makes it difficult to throw "perfect" balls to him, especially down the field splitting coverages and trying to protect him at the same time.

[Mameluc]

since we are just throwing up stats withouth context im gonna throw some more:

Manning has high-quality playoff stats, but they have not led to wins.

• In the regular season Manning wins 82.6 percent of his games when he has a passer rating of at least 85.0 (it is 77.8 percent in the 85.0-110.0 range).

• In the playoffs Manning is 5-6 (.455) with a passer rating of at least 85.0. He has been at least 88.3 in each of his last five playoff losses.

The six losses are as many as Joe Montana (12-3), Tom Brady (10-2) and Brett Favre (11-1) have combined. The only other quarterbacks with a losing record (min. four games) are Warren Moon (2-4) and Ken Anderson (2-3).

If that is not bizarre enough, there is the fact that even when Manning and his entire offense avoids turnovers, he still loses at a most historic rate.

• In the regular season Manning’s teams are 40-2 (.952) when they have zero giveaways on offense. That is the best record in the league since 1998.

• In the playoffs Manning’s Colts were 1-5 (.167) when they had zero giveaways on offense. The rest of the league is 50-5 (.909), and that even includes two games where neither team had a giveaway.

When your defense allows a fourth-quarter comeback 60 percent of the time (6-4), you have a real problem. It is one thing to let Drew Brees do it, but when it’s Jay Fiedler, Billy Volek, Mark Sanchez and Joe Flacco? That is completely unacceptable.

Manning’s had a lead in the final 0:40 of the fourth quarter and lost four playoff games.

The only four times Manning’s teams have held off comeback attempts, they led to three straight wins and a Super Bowl in 2006, and a Super Bowl appearance in 2009 after holding off the Jets.

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/content/peyton-mannings-9-11-playoff-record-is-call-for-help/20868/ --> i already posted this on another topic but its the same theme so its worth a read

[Mameluc]

i guesss that is also eye opening

[JerodMayo51]

I don't know how Manning is somehow responsible for a 70 yard TD with 30 seconds left, but I guess if you think he is then I will respect your opinion.

 

No hes not responsible for giving up a 70 yard touchdown with 30 seconds left, hes responsible for throwing a horrible interception in double overtime that lead to the Ravens kicking a field goal and advancing to the AFCCG.  Don't want to forget that little fact.

[Mameluc]

No hes not responsible for giving up a 70 yard touchdown with 30 seconds left, hes responsible for throwing a horrible interception in double overtime that lead to the Ravens kicking a field goal and advancing to the AFCCG.  Don't want to forget that little fact.

brady had a terrible game a year ago that included a pick on the 4th quarter  and no TD. yet his team won. 

yet nobody mentiosn brady as choker or a bad post season qb...why?

because his team won.

 

 

this is what is all about, his team won. 

so yea blaming the loss on him would be stupid

[braveheartcolt]

BTW Did you even watch the play above? Any receiver on the team other than White would have caught that.

 

How so you explain his 36 catches that year (355 yards), five in the end zone? I understand your chagrin at what has happened, but it would be better if you used fair debate to support your guy, rather than this sort of crap.

[Dustin]

How so you explain his 36 catches that year (355 yards), five in the end zone? I understand your chagrin at what has happened, but it would be better if you used fair debate to support your guy, rather than this sort of crap.

Did you watch the play?

[Dustin]

How so you explain his 36 catches that year (355 yards), five in the end zone? I understand your chagrin at what has happened, but it would be better if you used fair debate to support your guy, rather than this sort of crap.

And what a great argument you have here. "He has 300 yards so its obvious he can catch anything that goes his way."

[GoPats]

But i'll tell all the patriot drones this much,if brady happens to make it to the superbowl and losses again,then the whole 0-3 in the superbowl since *spygate* will only get louder.Tommy has been chokin' lately as well,and with another superbowl loss and his image is tainted.

 

I'm not sure about the Spygate part (because that would mean they got to three SBs before it and three after it), but I agree that another SB loss, bringing his personal record to 3-3, would be a tough thing to overlook.

But...

 

I think that's only the case because of how it would have gone down. Three wins in three tries, then three losses in three tries.

 

Elway was 2-3 but the "2" came at the end, and that absolutely alters opinions of him. I remember when Elway was viewed as a guy who could not get it done.

[GoPats]

brady had a terrible game a year ago that included a pick on the 4th quarter  and no TD. yet his team won. 

yet nobody mentiosn brady as choker or a bad post season qb...why?

because his team won.

 

Spot on. If you remember, his postgame on-the-field comments started with, "Well I really sucked today." Then he credited the defense with holding off Baltimore.

[Mameluc]

Spot on. If you remember, his postgame on-the-field comments started with, "Well I really sucked today." Then he credited the defense with holding off Baltimore.

Yea I remember...and im no way trying to imply Brady sucks...he is a HOF for a reason.

Im just trying to say that saying manning sucks because of his record is not accurate. Every game deservers its own examination and it is its own universe; I thought of bringing that Brady game because people will remember the outcome and nobody will say he choked/had a bad game..however analyzing that game you can tell that Brady wasnt the reason they won that particular game, was probably the D, just like Saying Manning costed the broncos the game last saturday would be shortsighted

[amfootball]

Yea I remember...and im no way trying to imply Brady sucks...he is a HOF for a reason.

Im just trying to say that saying manning sucks because of his record is not accurate. Every game deservers its own examination and it is its own universe; I thought of bringing that Brady game because people will remember the outcome and nobody will say he choked/had a bad game..however analyzing that game you can tell that Brady wasnt the reason they won that particular game, was probably the D, just like Saying Manning costed the broncos the game last saturday would be shortsighted

Not sure where to begin with this. The pats were down 20-16 in the 4th quarter of the AFC champ last year when Brady led the game winning drive losing Gronk on the first play after Pollard took out his ankle. Not only did Brady lead the drive, he scored the go ahead TD himself on a QB sneak on 4th down from the one yard line. That is classic Brady. He has had sub-par playoff games but more often than not makes the plays to win. His first SB win was very similar. Not an eye popping game by any means but he made all the plays at the end to win.

 

Manning's TO's on Saturday led to 17 points with one being a pick six. I can't even remember Brady ever throwing a pick six in any playoff game ever and yet Manning has a bunch with the most crucial coming against the Saints in the SB in '09 that sealed the win. If you "examine" both Manning's and Brady's playoff losses you will see more often than not that Manning's inability to make the plays to win cost his team while Brady often made the plays and was let down by his defense at the end.

[jvan1973]

Not sure where to begin with this. The pats were down 20-16 in the 4th quarter of the AFC champ last year when Brady led the game winning drive losing Gronk on the first play after Pollard took out his ankle. Not only did Brady lead the drive, he scored the go ahead TD himself on a QB sneak on 4th down from the one yard line. That is classic Brady. He has had sub-par playoff games but more often than not makes the plays to win. His first SB win was very similar. Not an eye popping game by any means but he made all the plays at the end to win.

Manning's TO's on Saturday led to 17 points with one being a pick six. I can't even remember Brady ever throwing a pick six in any playoff game ever and yet Manning has a bunch with the most crucial coming against the Saints in the SB in '09 that sealed the win. If you "examine" both Manning's and Brady's playoff losses you will see more often than not that Manning's inability to make the plays to win cost his team while Brady often made the plays and was let down by his defense at the end.

Yeah, because the broncos d didnt let them down the other night..

[amfootball]

Yeah, because the broncos d didnt let them down the other night..

You're kidding, right? Manning got not one but TWO special teams scores and still did not put the game away. Even with the last TD at the end of regulation, Manning had not one but TWO possessions in OT to win the game and failed on both ultimately throwing the pick that led to the Ravens win. Not to mention running on third and seven by his own admission at the end of the game instead of throwing for the first down which would have never allowed the 70 yard bomb to begin with.

[jvan1973]

You're kidding, right? Manning got not one but TWO special teams scores and still did not put the game away. Even with the last TD at the end of regulation, Manning had not one but TWO possessions in OT to win the game and failed on both ultimately throwing the pick that led to the Ravens win. Not to mention running on third and seven by his own admission at the end of the game instead of throwing for the first down which would have never allowed the 70 yard bomb to being with.

You're right, the broncos d played great

[amfootball]

You're right, the broncos d played great

If Brady gets TWO special teams scores on Sunday, the pats will win by four scores...won't matter what the D does...

[Yehoodi]

You're right, the broncos d played great

they did not play lights out, but they weren' that awful either . . . they only gave up 28 points in regulation and 7 of which were on a short field after the Manning fumble . . . and lastly kept the Ravens to a long FG attempt after the INT in OT . . . is 21 points plus 7 from a short field lights out, no, but its not like they gave up 35 points on 5 long sustained drives . . . 14 points were on long prayers at the end of the halfs, 7 points on a long pass in the 1st qtr, and 7 points on a short field . . . so if you only yeilds points on prayers, then they are not playing that bad . . .

[Dustin]

Not sure where to begin with this. The pats were down 20-16 in the 4th quarter of the AFC champ last year when Brady led the game winning drive losing Gronk on the first play after Pollard took out his ankle. Not only did Brady lead the drive, he scored the go ahead TD himself on a QB sneak on 4th down from the one yard line. That is classic Brady. He has had sub-par playoff games but more often than not makes the plays to win. His first SB win was very similar. Not an eye popping game by any means but he made all the plays at the end to win.

Scoring a TD with 12 minutes left in the 4th quarter and not being able to actually close out the win don't constitute "making all the plays at the end to win" to me. He threw 0 TDs and 2 picks. You can be assured that if Manning played like that, his team would lose by 4 scores, not squeak out a win because a TE dropped a TD in the endzone.

[Mameluc]

Not sure where to begin with this. The pats were down 20-16 in the 4th quarter of the AFC champ last year when Brady led the game winning drive losing Gronk on the first play after Pollard took out his ankle. Not only did Brady lead the drive, he scored the go ahead TD himself on a QB sneak on 4th down from the one yard line. That is classic Brady. He has had sub-par playoff games but more often than not makes the plays to win. His first SB win was very similar. Not an eye popping game by any means but he made all the plays at the end to win.

 

Manning's TO's on Saturday led to 17 points with one being a pick six. I can't even remember Brady ever throwing a pick six in any playoff game ever and yet Manning has a bunch with the most crucial coming against the Saints in the SB in '09 that sealed the win. If you "examine" both Manning's and Brady's playoff losses you will see more often than not that Manning's inability to make the plays to win cost his team while Brady often made the plays and was let down by his defense at the end.

The first pick was a clear interference so take out 7 points...you can argue that the tacklet got beat but lets just go ahead and count that as his fault as well as the last pick...

 

brady has never had a playoff game like that? what about 09 divisional los vss  Ravens: Passing: T. Brady (NE) - 154 YDS, 2 TD, 3 INT... 154 YARDS 3 INT! just because the other team didnt capitalize on the interceptions does not make it any better...its still 3 picks

 

had Manning had a game like that people would be screaming CHOKER! thats when perception takes place. brady aint no choker so its a bad game nothing more. 

 

Brady Lost Gronk? So what? Manning lost Mcgahhee AND Moreno...  i dont see what the difference is?

 

 

 

Also, AGAIN, Manning did deliver a 4th quarter go ahead postseason TD...it wasnt his last posession, thats correct, but he couldnt know that it wouldnt be. When he threw that Pass to DT, there was no way in knowing he would get the ball back...so when in pressure he delivered a TD. Then his S blew the coverage and the rest is history... a pick that shouldnt have happened because of bad Safety play  is all that people talk about. 

 

 

of course that is his fault, no denying in that, but when i say each game should be examined in particular not as a whole, is for example because people could just look at those stats of the game you mention and will say he sucked!...but in reality he delivered the game winning 1 yard sneak, which is all you can ask for(of course people dont say that because he ended up winning but you get my point)...hence people just went with stats and not with how he bounced back.

 

also, i have mentioned this article before but you should take a look at it: http://www.coldhardf...for-help/20868/

 

brady was let down by his defense? im sorry but thats laughable compared to manning, the reason he got his first 2 superbowls if because of defense what are you talking about... if anything it has been Manning's defense that has let him down...most recently last saturday on a hail mary on third down with 30 seconds left...

 

 

"if that is not bizarre enough, there is the fact that even when Manning and his entire offense avoids turnovers, he still loses at a most historic rate.

• In the regular season Manning’s teams are 40-2 (.952) when they have zero giveaways on offense. That is the best record in the league since 1998.
• In the playoffs Manning’s Colts were 1-5 (.167) when they had zero giveaways on offense. The rest of the league is 50-5 (.909), and that even includes two games where neither team had a giveaway."

[Mameluc]

heck even in the game you mention, where he you say "made enough plays to win the game" he went  0 TD's and 1 INT isnt that a drop of production from regular season? regardless if he scored a 1 yard run to win the game...he had a drop of similar to manning...

[Yehoodi]

Scoring a TD with 12 minutes left in the 4th quarter and not being able to actually close out the win don't constitute "making all the plays at the end to win" to me. He threw 0 TDs and 2 picks. You can be assured that if Manning played like that, his team would lose by 4 scores, not squeak out a win because a TE dropped a TD in the endzone.

Rushing TD, passing TD, you say tomato i say tomato . . . whats the difference . . . bottom line on the first TD the pats had the ball 1st and goal on the 7 and whether they go empty backfield and throw it three times into the endzone or hand it to Lawfirm and he gets TD, Brady help led them to the 7 yard line . . . and on the second TD they were 1st and goal from the 5, woodhead could not punch it in and Brady sneaks it in for a TD . . . a TD is a TD, what is more important is the drive down the field to set up the TD, its not like Brady couldn't get the ball in the redzone and Lawfirm ripped off two 30 yard runs for two TDs . . .

no scoring early in the 4th is not the do or die possession under two minutes with no TOs, but it is still the 4th qtr of the AFCCG where most fans and players you know whats are tightenig up like a drum . . .

also for getting ball back, they did get it on one TO, but per the pats play calling, they threw a bomb into the endzone which was just slightly underthrown to a back up WR and the safety got his finger tips on it and it was a pick, too bad they did not hold on to it more to kill some clock .

the next possession was the dreaded "leadng by less than a score under 3 mins lets do run plays to try to get a first down" that we see so many teams do this, like the pats have done many times and Den on Sat night, and we did not get the first down and punted . ..

so its not like we had many more opportunities to score again after the TD . . .

[Yehoodi]

   

brady was let down by his defense?  

you can take this point however you wish . . . but in the followig games Brady was on the sideline with a lead watching his defense go up against the opponents last drive of the game and each opponent scored the game winning TD in the final minute of the game . . .

The three games in question are:

2006 AFFCG

SB 42

SB 46

All three games would of resulted in three rings for the pats (if one wants to assume that we beat Dabeers in SB 41) . . . but either way at least two rings (not to mention 19-0) and another SB appearence . . .

has Brady gotten help from the D, yes; from a back up QB, yes; from ST, yes; has he gagged, yes; has he been smoked in the *, yes - 09; had bad games, yes . . .

but on the other hand,like Manning Sat night, had to sit and watch the lead go away and walk off the field a loser . . . sometime you get help some times you dont . . . we need to recognize both . . . just at other parts of the team came and helped in certain games, they did not other times . . .

but no matter how slice it, Brady helped the pats to be within a play of a SB in the following years: 2001, 2003, 2004, 2006, 2007 and 2011 . . . that is not less that six times the pats where at the table of lady luck hoping the coin would come up their way each time . . . but given that luck is just chance, and not to mention a QB for the colts, its no surprise that we went 3 out of 6 . . .

its not like the D step up 2001-2004 and then the pats fell off the planet . . . indeed, had Brady had both hands securely on the ball and made move in oakland, had Wilson not broken up the pass to Bennet in the Tenn, had Troy brown not run an in route in indy, had Harrison broken up the Tyree play, and had Welker caught the ball last year - the pats SB victories would of gone from '01, '03, '04 to '04, '07 and '11 (and '06 too) . . . so if we just switch just one play the other way in those years (01, 03, 06, 07, 11), history might be different, we would be going from "a guy that wins with a championship D and HOF kicker" to a guy "that had tough times earlier in his career to one that when given offense weapons took an aging D to a 19-0 season and a rag tag team in to a win in '11"

see how a few plays make a difference? but they really don't the body of work is just the same . . . brady was helpful in all 6 years and as fate would have it, it shine on the pats when they had a good D and AV and not when they had a okay D and good offense . . . so i look to the body of work as much as i do when the coin come up pats . . .

[Mameluc]

long post

first of all im not sayng Brady sucks...IN no way... im not here to bash Brady, and most certainly not hereto diminish his accomplishments... what i wanted to point out, is exactly what you just mentioned... a break here and there and he might have another champsionship or 2 or whatever...

of course he helped his team win each sb, heck he might be one of the most obvius reason why they were on the SB to begin with, but the same can be said of Manning .. and that happenss thats all im trying to say its a freaking team game and i dont agree when people just say "he threw an INT he sucks he is a choker regular season QB"etc etc etc... I do agree he has thrown some crazy stupid INT but at the same time he has also had lights out play off game or when he bounces back just like Brady has(probably the most glaring example the multiple INT game on SD).

maybe people don tremember, but the year we won the SB the game ended up on a brady INT, so whats the freaking difference? its the fact that his team has won...that doesnt make him a choker does it?

[amfootball]

first of all im not sayng Brady sucks...IN no way... im not here to bash Brady, and most certainly not hereto diminish his accomplishments... what i wanted to point out, is exactly what you just mentioned... a break here and there and he might have another champsionship or 2 or whatever...

of course he helped his team win each sb, heck he might be one of the most obvius reason why they were on the SB to begin with, but the same can be said of Manning .. and that happenss thats all im trying to say its a freaking team game and i dont agree when people just say "he threw an INT he sucks he is a choker regular season QB"etc etc etc... I do agree he has thrown some crazy stupid INT but at the same time he has also had lights out play off game or when he bounces back just like Brady has(probably the most glaring example the multiple INT game on SD).

maybe people don tremember, but the year we won the SB the game ended up on a brady INT, so whats the freaking difference? its the fact that his team has won...that doesnt make him a choker does it?

Fair points but I think the reality is this, Brady been far more consistent and clutch than Manning in the post-season. Remember we are talking about a rather large sampling size here. Manning has played in 20 games, Brady 23 soon to be 24. It is interesting that you bring up the AFC champ game in 2006. Sure the game ended on a Brady pick but that was by far the least talented team that patriots ever fielded. Street walk-ons Gaffney and Caldwell were Brady's main targets and he had no run game. He had a 21-6 lead at half only to see his Lbs wilt in the second half. Now credit here has to go to Manning for taking advantage but Brady was there. In fact late in the fourth quarter, he had a wide open Caldwell with no one covering him and he flat out dropped it. That would have been a TD instead of a FG which would have thwarted the comeback by Manning. Brady did far more to win that game than anything to lose it. At the end, I believe he had like 35 seconds to try to lead the winning drive. That really is the difference. Time and again you see Manning's mistakes cost his team the game whereas Brady generally overcomes his or his INTs come early in the game or not in the opponents side of the field. All three of Manning's TOs on Saturday came on his side of the field and led to 17 points with 7 coming on a pick six. I may be wrong about this, but I don't believe Brady has ever thrown a pick six in a playoff game which is mind boggling over a 23 game stretch soon to be 24.