The Sheriff vs. Shady Tom Brady - 10-7-12 - 4:25 EST

[ruksak]

Man, it's funny how only Colt/Bronco fans seem to think that Peyton's arm strength isn't that good.

What makes it even more hilarious is that Peyton himself says that his arm strength isn't that good.

But hey, Colt fans know more than Peyton Manning himself.

Manning hasn't claimed his arm strength "isn't that good". He eluded that it has a ways to go, whatever that means. I know one thing, he couldn't be throwing for 300-400 yards and completing at such a high rate if his arm was seriously flawed. There's no way, not in this league bub...

[DILLIGAFER]

u mean the same Genius coach & now a powerful running game and McDaniels again doing the play calling as on the 07 point run up season

Nope.. Billy Boy.

[bayone]

Nope.. Billy Boy.

when I say

the same Genius coach & now a powerful running game and McDaniels again doing the play calling as on the 07 point run up season , I meant BB as the Genius coach & McDaniels as the return OC under him

sorry if not specific, thought was implied

[southwest1]

Another thing that bothers me: When some bloggers on here act like Manning is a shell of his former self. Just because I believe in the work ethic and human computer to process pre and post snaps that is Peyton, it doesn't mean I am delusional or living in the past glory days of 2006 and 2009. He will return next year with a vengeance. Locker room chemistry takes time. Learning where to be exactly where Peyton wants you to be takes time. Moving as a fluid unit on offense and defense usually takes 1 full season to master.

Manning's skill set is still intact, his durability confirmed, and his ability to get all his weapons on the same page as himself is methodical, scientific, and inevitable. The Broncos are losing close games and the gap between a defeat and a victory are beginning to close and seal for the better IMO. Peyton is fine and his NFL career is alive and well. Next year, the Broncos will thrive and flourish not now. Denver is still learning what real accountability looks like and what Championship Greatness really requires--the sacrifice it truly entails. Patience...I'm not jumping #18 leadership not by a longshot; You don't abandon the submarine just because she takes a minor loss or torpedo hit.

[bayone]

Hi all,

Thanks, all, for your comments/observations. Some of them are painful for me to read but it's okay. Congrats to the NE fans here. You guys have a great team.

I didn't watch the game, and could only listen to Denver radio. It didn't feel like the outcome was much in doubt. The breakneck speed of NE offense really had our defense gassed. I was tired just listening. What I got from this game is that we need a new mike. Joe Mays has been exploited for his lack of coverage skills. We cannot deal with diverse and elite offense like NE and Houston. Sadly, I don't know if there is anything we can do to fix it this season. We don't have an option really. Keith Brookings got concussed yesterday, and DJ Williams is a will even if he is allowed to come back, which I highly doubt.

I don't know what's up with Demaryius Thomas's fumbilitis. Other than that, he had a great game. He might not have passed your eye test but 11-13, 188 yards is impressive at least number-wise. I hope he can further develop. He is still relatively new to pro offense, and missed a lot of games last two seasons. I'm not ready to give up the hope he can one day turn into a great receiver.

How did Dan Koppen do? I gasped when Orlando Franklin went out. I was relieved he came back. Sounded like Von Miller had another good game. At the very least, we have a few great pieces to build around. We better do it really fast.

Kopenn did fine

Maning can go at that speed, he did with colts when felt like it & was called tthe blaze no huddle by reporters who never saw anything like it,

Issue is Rest of broncos can't & he hasnt a true # 1 with hands like Reggie wayne , that is a go to guy he can throw to with conviction & confidennce every time, if u watched the colt game over 200 receiving yards and grabbing balls off balance with hands outstretched and even 1 handed tipping to himself while falling down plus can line up anywhere

and why decker doesnt cut across the mid deep middle is beyond me, his quick cuts there are all that was talked about in preseason

[Vance]

i dont follow the Broncos as a team. SMH Thanks Grammar police.

Says the guy with the user name 'Broncolt' and always posts in the Bronco threads... see I can do stupid smileys too.

[chad72]

and why decker doesnt cut across the mid deep middle is beyond me, his quick cuts there are all that was talked about in preseason

Problem is Decker's skill set fits that of a slot wideout. He does better with soft spots in zones, low balls, crossing routes than high balls and double moves that you expect from an outside wideout his size. He is a bigger Collie, IMO, without the concussions. If Stokely hangs up his boots, Decker in the SLOT would fit seamlessly because he can beat the nickel CBs better than keep up with the speedy outside CBs. DT is the only prototypical Z wideout they have.

[bayone]

the Patriots are looking to be well-rounded in all facets.

Passing game, running game, defense, etc. They have lost two Super Bowls trying to win them with an air show, no running game, and a leaky defense. Brady is clearly not going to be putting up surrealistic numbers this season. And that, for NE fans, is a good thing. I'd rather see them win it all, or at least be able to compete in games whereT the passing game is held in check.

I have said in various posts Great run game & Jones & Ingram ( sp ) are great rookies showing immediate impact

Peyton doesnt have the cast around him he needed, wish he went to 49'r's when had a chance , evewn arizona, then at least u have a good D & he has the great fitgerald who will hold onto the ball and not fumble 3 weeks in a row nor lead league in Drop % , at least a couple of weeks back as DT has anf Decker was suprisingly right behind him at the time, If as said elwhere if he only had wayne it would help greatly

I just dont think this is the team / coaching stff for him, him may have lost some control with Harbourough as a 49'r but at least he a real good coach, Del Rio is 7th D coach in 7 years , thats not consistency and fox is conservative and not letting Peyton be peyton apparently , at least not early

Nothing against Pats they deserved the victory

[bayone]

Problem is Decker's skill set fits that of a slot wideout. He does better with soft spots in zones, low balls, crossing routes than high balls and double moves that you expect from an outside wideout his size. He is a bigger Collie, IMO, without the concussions. If Stokely hangs up his boots, Decker in the SLOT would fit seamlessly because he can beat the nickel CBs better than keep up with the speedy outside CBs. DT is the only prototypical Z wideout they have.

agree

[bayone]

Broncos' John Fox gets worked by Pats' Bill Belichick

FOXBOROUGH, Mass. — In the brave, new 4G world of pro football, Broncos coach John Fox is wobbling along like a warped vinyl recording of "The Times They Are A-Changin'."

Speed, to say nothing of Tom Brady and the Patriots, killed Denver 31-21 on Sunday.

"They move at NASCAR speed," Denver linebacker Joe Mays said.

And the Broncos got run over.

In this NFL era of no huddle, where every strategic change seems to be done on the fly and in 140 characters or fewer, if you're not thinking three plays ahead, you're already three steps behind.

These don't-blink-to-think new rules extend beyond the white lines. On the sideline, the Broncos were too slow for the Patriots.

In an exchange of wits with New England mastermind Bill Belichick, Fox was George Costanza. For Denver, the whole game played out like everyone's worst "Jeopardy!" nightmare, where you know the answer, but can never buzz in fast enough.

What happened?

"It was probably not great communication on the down and distance, as we probably could have done," Fox said. "You know, anytime it doesn't work, it's no good."

( some statement , not reassuring at all )

When an immediate response is demanded, it's as if their foes are using Twitter, while the Broncos are still trying to get by with carrier pigeons.

As his 345 passing yards and three touchdowns against New England would attest, Manning has not only been better than any quarterback coming off the injury shelf should expect, his statistics have been the stuff of John Elway's dreams.

It's the personnel Elway and Fox have placed around Manning that isn't up to snuff.

Read more:Mark Kiszla: Broncos' John Fox gets worked by Pats' Bill Belichick - The Denver Posthttp://www.denverpos...y#ixzz28k8euZF9

[southwest1]

Clearly, NE was the team that executed more plays than Denver did yesterday. But, a 10 point difference doesn't exactly indicate a colossal beat down either. The Patriots were the better team on Sunday. But, if I were NE, the Texans would scare the bleep out of me personally. 2 words: controlled chaos. I have my reservations about NE withstanding that defensive line.

Sure, I suppose Brady can throw screens and run the ball, but that front 4 is darn good. What I will be watching tonight vs the Jets is safety and corner coverage by the Texans. The Texans pass rush is very solid and their gap control is right on the money, but "the front and the back end of the defense needs to work together" as NFL Network's Warren Sapp always says.

Bring on a tight secondary Houston and don't let any WR's or TE's get behind you. That will be fun to watch tonight Vance87 and QuizBoy.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Problem is Decker's skill set fits that of a slot wideout. He does better with soft spots in zones, low balls, crossing routes than high balls and double moves that you expect from an outside wideout his size. He is a bigger Collie, IMO, without the concussions. If Stokely hangs up his boots, Decker in the SLOT would fit seamlessly because he can beat the nickel CBs better than keep up with the speedy outside CBs. DT is the only prototypical Z wideout they have.

If 87 would have followed 18 to Denver as many expected, then that offense would be crazy scary. It's good as it is and will only improve as they get more reps together but Thomas/Wayne outside and Stokley/Decker inside with Tamme/Dressen at TE and the collection of backs, it would have been scary. I'm still surprised that after Wayne resigned in Indy that Denver didn't try to move up to grab on of the top WRs in the draft.

[chad72]

If 87 would have followed 18 to Denver as many expected, then that offense would be crazy scary. It's good as it is and will only improve as they get more reps together but Thomas/Wayne outside and Stokley/Decker inside with Tamme/Dressen at TE and the collection of backs, it would have been scary. I'm still surprised that after Wayne resigned in Indy that Denver didn't try to move up to grab on of the top WRs in the draft.

Yep, it was a deep WR draft, and the Broncos missed out on it, IMO. Besides, Osweiler on the pretext of Peyton getting hurt and going down??? Not sure if that was worth a round 2 pick. Could have addressed D.

They have little speed on their WR front, much needed in this passing league now. Grigson on the other hand did a better job on the offensive front.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Yep, it was a deep WR draft, and the Broncos missed out on it, IMO. Besides, Osweiler on the pretext of Peyton getting hurt and going down??? Not sure if that was worth a round 2 pick. Could have addressed D.

They have little speed on their WR front, much needed in this passing league now. Grigson on the other hand did a better job on the offensive front.

I agree. I'd say Osweiler would have been there in the 3rd/4th. I can't remember when Tamme/Dressen were signed in context with the draft but for some reason I want to say it was after the draft but I was a bit surprised they didn't take Fleener/Allen.

I think the guy Denver had that went to SD signed a few days before Manning, that would have also been a help if they could have retained him.

[bayone]

Yep, it was a deep WR draft, and the Broncos missed out on it, IMO. Besides, Osweiler on the pretext of Peyton getting hurt and going down??? Not sure if that was worth a round 2 pick. Could have addressed D.

They have little speed on their WR front, much needed in this passing league now. Grigson on the other hand did a better job on the offensive front.

I'm sure ,m was crazy stupid to me, If Peyton went down he wouldnt get any learning anyway

Denver said they were in a win now mode but didnt show it draft day , they moved back to get an extra pick and then lost thev extra pick to move down a bit forgot who they got with it , maybe was Hillman in round 3 or maybe it was a round 4 pick

I like wolfe but then they went wrong in the draft in execution

[southwest1]

If 87 would have followed 18 to Denver as many expected, then that offense would be crazy scary. I'm still surprised that after Wayne resigned in Indy that Denver didn't try to move up to grab on of the top WRs in the draft.

You know FJC, that is a great point: What prompted Wayne to stay in INDY? His familiarity with Chuck Pagano at Miami? Enjoying the community of Indianapolis and her citizens immensely as a place to live, work, and play? Given his age, most WR's don't wanna hit the reset button with a rookie QB...How hard was the sales pitch from Manning for #87 to relocate to Mile High? Don't get me wrong, I'm glad he stayed put. I just love hearing about famous people and their true motivations I guess.

[southwest1]

Yep, it was a deep WR draft, and the Broncos missed out on it, IMO. Besides, Osweiler on the pretext of Peyton getting hurt and going down??? Not sure if that was worth a round 2 pick. Could have addressed D.

They have little speed on their WR front, much needed in this passing league now. Grigson, on the other hand,did a better job on the offensive front.

Well stated Chad72! A bit surprising that Executive VP of Football Operations John Elway, a HOF QB himself didn't see the need for a #1 WR veteran/security blanket for #18. :???:

[FireJimCaldwell]

You know FJC, that is a great point: What prompted Wayne to stay in INDY? His familiarity with Chuck Pagano at Miami? Enjoying the community of Indianapolis and her citizens immensely as a place to live, work, and play? Given his age, most WR's don't wanna hit the reset button with a rookie QB...How hard was the sales pitch from Manning for #87 to relocate to Mile High? Don't get me wrong, I'm glad he stayed put. I just love hearing about famous people and their true motivations I guess.

I'm not sure.. Who is to say he was even offered a contract. I know Saturday is on record saying he felt Peyton wanted him in Denver more than it seemed like the Broncos front office wanted him in Denver. Maybe it was the same way with Wayne. I do believe that Wayne would have found Manning & Miami more attractive than Manning & Denver.

Personally, I don't think Wayne had offers that exceeded what the Colts offered him and it was clear they went after Garcon first so who knows.

I'm sure the years spent in Indy contributed to it. The Pagano connection didn't hurt.

[ViriLudant]

Leave it to Viri to try and quote something that was never said. Trying quoting or posting an actual quote by Manning next time. Here let me help..

"I am what I am. It is what is. Whatever expression you want to use."

John Fox: "There's nothing wrong with his arm strength," Foxsaid. "He was throwing the deep ball well in the second half. He just made some bad decisions. I don't even want to say they were bad decisions. There were some throws we would like to have back.

"People will talk about all kinds of things,but I'm telling you,there's nothing wrong with his arm strength."

Brandon Stokley: "Ya'll look for something negative after every loss," said Brandon Stokley,the Broncos' slot receiver who had three catches Monday. "No one talked about arm strength after the Pittsburgh game. It's just like a couple weeks ago,they were talking about how he couldn't throw to his right. And then the next game (against San Francisco) all he did was hit passes to his right. I'm telling you,in here,it's not even a topic of discussion. It's the last thing on our minds."

But you as a pats fan i'm sure know more than they do about it..

:clap: :clap: :clap: at using BRONCOS' players/coaches spinning things as proof.

Sorry, I'll use my eyes, as have many others who have watched Peyton lose arm strength.

That doesn't mean that it's gone forever, but it's clearly not where it was 2 years ago.

[bayone]

I agree. I'd say Osweiler would have been there in the 3rd/4th. I can't remember when Tamme/Dressen were signed in context with the draft but for some reason I want to say it was after the draft but I was a bit surprised they didn't take Fleener/Allen.

I think the guy Denver had that went to SD signed a few days before Manning, that would have also been a help if they could have retained him.

Eddie Royal signed On March 15, 2012 with chargers , he was also a returner as well

Manning reached an agreement with the Broncos on March 20, 2012

They also allowed best run DT , Broderick Bunkley to leave in free agency

and on On October 17, 2011, let Brandon Lloyd ( now a Patriot ) go in a trade for a conditional 6th round pick, to Rams after a probowl year and a concussion by new Bronco Jim Leonard

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

DENVER DEFENSE Failed NOT PEYTON

New England totalled a franchise-record 35 first downs, went 11-of-17 on third down, racked up 251 yards rushing and held the ball for over 35 minutes.

Offense ran 89 total plays Sunday, were as efficient offensively as any unit could ask for. He completed 6-of-8 passes for 87 yards on third downs. , & the crazy runs for 3rd downs were totally embarrasing

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1363353-is-peyton-manning-or-defense-more-to-blame-for-denver-broncos-big-loss

[bayone]

I'm not sure.. Who is to say he was even offered a contract. I know Saturday is on record saying he felt Peyton wanted him in Denver more than it seemed like the Broncos front office wanted him in Denver. Maybe it was the same way with Wayne. I do believe that Wayne would have found Manning & Miami more attractive than Manning & Denver.

Personally, I don't think Wayne had offers that exceeded what the Colts offered him and it was clear they went after Garcon first so who knows.

I'm sure the years spent in Indy contributed to it. The Pagano connection didn't hurt.

absolutely correct , know one knows what denver really offered or pursued others in ways to make them comfortable like they went out for peyton & if remember right Wayne signed back with colts before peyton signed with broncos as he said he wasnt just going to wait Peytons decision out as he needed a contract so Denver should have got him as a lure for peyton too, but guess they didnt need ithat in the end , but Peyton sure did

& of course glad he is a colt but wish Broncos had more consistent weapons & true stud TE

[southwest1]

I'm not sure.. Who is to say he was even offered a contract. I know Saturday is on record saying he felt Peyton wanted him in Denver more than it seemed like the Broncos front office wanted him in Denver. Maybe it was the same way with Wayne. I do believe that Wayne would have found Manning & Miami more attractive than Manning & Denver.

Personally, I don't think Wayne had offers that exceeded what the Colts offered him and it was clear they went after Garcon first so who knows.

I'm sure the years spent in Indy contributed to it. The Pagano connection didn't hurt.

Yeah, you're probably right. Offer sheets from other NFL squads weren't exactly flying off the shelf. Dumb really, age to me means experience not time to reduce a player's contract or diminish their role like Marvin Harrison or NE's WR Wes Welker right now. Provided you aren't constantly on IR, who cares if you lost a fraction of a step? Speed has it's place of course, but so does mental toughness too IMO. I still don't know how WR Pierre Garcon got all that money from Redskins owner Daniel Synder he didn't deserve it. Wayne or Welker yes...Garcon? Child Please who are we kidding?

[bayone]

Yep, it was a deep WR draft, and the Broncos missed out on it, IMO. Besides, Osweiler on the pretext of Peyton getting hurt and going down??? Not sure if that was worth a round 2 pick. Could have addressed D.

They have little speed on their WR front, much needed in this passing league now. Grigson on the other hand did a better job on the offensive front.

Read my comment 2nd one above this Re Wayne , was to late in editing to add u as quoted

Have a good night all

[southwest1]

Hey everybody FYI, for those people who didn't get to see the NE/Denver game this Sunday on TV, NFL Network will re-air this game Tuesday night on NFL Reply around 7 or 7:30 P.M. CST.

VL, GoPats, Flying Elvis & all concerned: I will be adding more to my analysis of this game later this week so be sure to check in here later this week.

[DILLIGAFER]

Says the guy with the user name 'Broncolt' and always posts in the Bronco threads... see I can do stupid smileys too.

If half a brain was present within you or you paid any attention at ALL.. you would know the meaning behind it, but you know everything right?? Get real. Pay attention.

[DILLIGAFER]

:clap: :clap: :clap: at using BRONCOS' players/coaches spinning things as proof.

Sorry, I'll use my eyes, as have many others who have watched Peyton lose arm strength.

That doesn't mean that it's gone forever, but it's clearly not where it was 2 years ago.

Spin what exactly. I quoted Manning, Stokley, and Fox. You roll off saying Peyton said something he didnt. Who's spinning what as you watch through those patriots colored glasses. I gave specific quotes.

[Denver 1973]

He dropped a 4th and 1 when he was wide open on top of the fumble.

Thomas finds ways to fumble with nobody even touching him. This week at least he was stripped.

Good effort by the Patriots, but these two on top of poor running and no consistent pass rush/D = dead horses. Manning fumbled as well when he got pancaked by 3 guys.

Thank God you're a Colts fan. Complain, complain, complain, and complain some more. Thanks for Manning btw, he looks pretty darn good in Orange.

[Moose Of Woe]

At least I can admit when my team has faults. The only way you get better is by realizing your team's faults and improving upon them. The Colts failed to do it for Manning's entire span here. 2006 onward we got worse EVERY season, and the only reason we won the SB In 2006 is because the D decided to actually show up for a four game span. For once. (Mind you, the special teams still blew, but having 2/3 of a team got the job done.)

You seem to be under the impression I want the Colts and Broncos to suck? I don't. I want them to get better, and I'd like to see Manning lead Denver to a ring or two before he retires almost as much as I want the Colts to win the SB.

You're welcome for Manning. Irsay handled that situation poorly. Now do him justice and do what we couldn't for all but the 2006 playoffs. Give the guy some help instead of shooting yourselves in the foot with boneheaded fumbles and dropped passes. A defense that doesn't set a record for first downs against them while giving up third and 17 ON THE GROUND would help, too.

Edited October 9, 2012 by Nadine
personal shot

[ruksak]

Complaints? Those are facts. At least I can admit when my team has faults. The only way you get better is by realizing and improving upon them. The Colts failed to do it for Manning's entire span here. 2006 onward we got worse EVERY season, and the only reason we won the SB In 2006 is because the D decided to actually show up for a four game span. For once. (Mind you, the special teams still blew, but having 2/3 of a team got the job done.)

You seem to be under the impression I want the Colts and Broncos to suck? I don't. I want them to get better, and I'd like to see Manning lead Denver to a ring or two before he retires almost as much as I want the Colts to win the SB.

You're welcome for Manning. Irsay handled that situation poorly. Now do him justice and do what we couldn't for all but the 2006 playoffs. Give the guy some help instead of shooting yourselves in the foot with boneheaded fumbles and dropped passes. A defense that doesn't set a record for first downs against them while giving up third and 17 ON THE GROUND would help, too.

You tell 'em Moose.

This fella seems to try and upset people with every post. I wouldn't even give him/her/ the pleasure.

[chad72]

Read my comment 2nd one above this Re Wayne , was to late in editing to add u as quoted

Have a good night all

Man, I totally forgot about Eddie Royal and Brandon Lloyd. There went the speed factor for the Broncos with both of those. I bet the Broncos wish they could have had some ST play now with Eddie Royal.

[Denver 1973]

Complaints? Those are facts. You can pretend none of what I said happened, but it all did. Stop being butthurt and grow up.

At least I can admit when my team has faults. The only way you get better is by realizing your team's faults and improving upon them. The Colts failed to do it for Manning's entire span here. 2006 onward we got worse EVERY season, and the only reason we won the SB In 2006 is because the D decided to actually show up for a four game span. For once. (Mind you, the special teams still blew, but having 2/3 of a team got the job done.)

You seem to be under the impression I want the Colts and Broncos to suck? I don't. I want them to get better, and I'd like to see Manning lead Denver to a ring or two before he retires almost as much as I want the Colts to win the SB.

You're welcome for Manning. Irsay handled that situation poorly. Now do him justice and do what we couldn't for all but the 2006 playoffs. Give the guy some help instead of shooting yourselves in the foot with boneheaded fumbles and dropped passes. A defense that doesn't set a record for first downs against them while giving up third and 17 ON THE GROUND would help, too.

Denver has plenty of talent, Thomas is a stud. Being that you can't see all that well, Thomas was the victim of a pretty darn good strip. I don't think any receiver could of hung on to that. The week before yes he had a boneheaded move and dropped the ball while trying to setup for a stuff arm. He is human, mistakes and boneheaded moves happen to everyone. I'll give you the defense, they played horrid except Von Miller. Even Bailey was victimized a couple times. There is no quick fix to defense, especially when we once again start the year with another new defensive coordinator. Stability is a good start, but until we can get some stability at the top, i expect the defense to not be so good.

McGahee had a bad game, he cost the team big time. But once again he's human bad games will happen even if you get paid millions of dollars to play it. But he's had plenty of good games and he is realiable most the time.

There, I do see the faults in this Denver team. I just don't complain about them all the time like you do. I actually came to this board because MOST Colts fans are level headed and I actually liked to see what they are saying about Manning. It seems the majority would like to see him succeed unless it's against the Colts. To me thats a pretty cool thing to read about and I highly respect those that feel that way. I'm sure it felt like a knife to the heart for a lot of fans to lose Manning just like I am sure it would of been pretty painful to lose Elway had he left. Now I will leave you so you can go back to complaining, because you have perfected that. Apparently you think im pretending and im blinded because I don't complain. Im a cup-half-full person and still see this team has a good chance of making a good run this season.

[Moose Of Woe]

Fair enough.

I do think Denver win will their division, starting with a convincing win over SD in week 6. Denver really, really needs to work on fundamentals if they want to win a playoff game, though. Too many self inflicted wounds. They're already like -8 in turnovers.

Regarding Thomas, three fumbles in three weeks. He's a fast receiver, but my god......he just needs to hold on. One you can look the other way, it happens. Two, with one being a strip but one being just dropped switching hands causes for an eyebrow raise to say the least. THREE? That's a big problem.

It's not all complaints with me, you know. I throw out compliments to the players who do well, but there really hasn't been a whole lot of that going on lately. Stokes and Tamme had a nice little game and have been consistent. Stokely, at age 40 coming out of retirement, shouldn't be the star receiver but he's put on the best show. Decker and Thomas need to step it up. The O-line pass blocking is good enough with Manning, but needs to run block better to give McGahee some holes.

There is no positive to take away from the defensive side of the ball. There is just no way to spin that.

I'd love to throw all the praise in the world to the Broncos players, just as much as I wished I could do it to the Colts past and present. Though the team as a whole here was terrible, certain names like Freeney, Mathis, Sanders when he actually played, Harrison, Wayne were commonly thrown around as helping share the load winning games against quality teams.

Against the likes of the Texans, Falcons, and Patriots...it's been Manning, Stokely and....... that's all I've got.

[ruksak]

Thanks for Manning btw, he looks pretty darn good in Orange.

Comments like this are really uncalled for. Most Indy fans are happy for both Manning and Denver and we support your team. So making pithy comments like this just to get under our skin only serves to make you look little.

[Vance]

If half a brain was present within you or you paid any attention at ALL.. you would know the meaning behind it, but you know everything right?? Get real. Pay attention.

Are you saying I lack intelligence, sir? :ref:

[Yehoodi]

At least I can admit when my team has faults. The only way you get better is by realizing your team's faults and improving upon them. The Colts failed to do it for Manning's entire span here. 2006 onward we got worse EVERY season, and the only reason we won the SB In 2006 is because the D decided to actually show up for a four game span. For once. (Mind you, the special teams still blew, but having 2/3 of a team got the job done.)

You seem to be under the impression I want the Colts and Broncos to suck? I don't. I want them to get better, and I'd like to see Manning lead Denver to a ring or two before he retires almost as much as I want the Colts to win the SB.

You're welcome for Manning. Irsay handled that situation poorly. Now do him justice and do what we couldn't for all but the 2006 playoffs. Give the guy some help instead of shooting yourselves in the foot with boneheaded fumbles and dropped passes. A defense that doesn't set a record for first downs against them while giving up third and 17 ON THE GROUND would help, too.

hmm . . . the last time I checked my America's Game: the 2006 Colts, the colts beat the Ravens 15-6 in the divisional game, all on FGs, which if my football knowledge serves me correctly, means Mr. Peyton "please irsay give him some help" Manning failed to get the ball into the endzone . . .

But maybe I mixing the the shows up in my head and am thinking of an earlier team . . .

Edited October 9, 2012 by Nadine
quoted personal shot

[Moose Of Woe]

hmm . . . the last time I checked my America's Game: the 2006 Colts, the colts beat the Ravens 15-6 in the divisional game, all on FGs, which if my football knowledge serves me correctly, means Mr. Peyton "please irsay give him some help" Manning failed to get the ball into the endzone . . .

Manning did need help. THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. I've said numerous times he got it in the 2006 playoffs and that's why Indy even won a SB.

Manning and the likes of his receivers and guys like Freeney/Mathis were enough to get to the playoffs every season. However, all but once EVERY time they'd ultimately come up short. Why? No D. No special teams. And usually winding up going against eventual SB champion caliber defenses.

In Baltimore's case, as well as all of the 2006 playoffs, the D was up to the challenge. In Baltimore's case it was a game of ball control against the best defense in football. Manning turned the ball over twice, but the D and special teams (Adam V.) won the day while the O managed the clock. Balt's D was great, Manning had a hard time against it. WHO WOULDN'T?

The Colts beat the top 3 defensive teams on their way to a SB win. And lit up something like 38 on the Pats in the process. The D gave up 34, but buckled down a bit in the second half and sealed the win with a game ending INT.

Manning got help in the playoffs ONCE from this team in the playoffs - and the Colts won the Superbowl. Who dragged the god awful:

Special teams

D

and from 2007 onward

No O-line (Pass blocking OR Run blocking)

AND no run game to the playoffs to BEGIN with? 18 with guys like Wayne, Freeney, Harrison, Mathis. (Among others) That's not a team effort. Those are a handful of people at certain positions with mediocre to flat out BAD players filling out most of the roster. That's not nearly enough to do any good against championship caliber teams.

[Yehoodi]

Fair enough.

I do think Denver win will their division, starting with a convincing win over SD in week 6. Denver really, really needs to work on fundamentals if they want to win a playoff game, though. Too many self inflicted wounds. They're already like -8 in turnovers.

Regarding Thomas, three fumbles in three weeks. He's a fast receiver, but my god......he just needs to hold on. One you can look the other way, it happens. Two, with one being a strip but one being just dropped switching hands causes for an eyebrow raise to say the least. THREE? That's a big problem.

It's not all complaints with me, you know. I throw out compliments to the players who do well, but there really hasn't been a whole lot of that going on lately. Stokes and Tamme had a nice little game and have been consistent. Stokely, at age 40 coming out of retirement, shouldn't be the star receiver but he's put on the best show. Decker and Thomas need to step it up. The O-line pass blocking is good enough with Manning, but needs to run block better to give McGahee some holes.

There is no positive to take away from the defensive side of the ball. There is just no way to spin that.

I'd love to throw all the praise in the world to the Broncos players, just as much as I wished I could do it to the Colts past and present. Though the team as a whole here was terrible, certain names like Freeney, Mathis, Sanders when he actually played, Harrison, Wayne were commonly thrown around as helping share the load winning games against quality teams.

Against the likes of the Texans, Falcons, and Patriots...it's been Manning, Stokely and....... that's all I've got.

Surely, the supporting cast did not play perfect and had some mistakes, surely, but the Denver Broncos supporting cast is solid . . . maybe not top 5 in the league but solid (btw Mark Sanchez's backup Tebow went 7-4 with that same supporting cast last year, just a little point of fact seeing that we all are concerned about facts) . . .

Your posts on this thread Moose do have a classic "Peyton does it all with no help from his friends" aspect, and flavored with the "Peyton should be credited with just about everything" spice . . . fiar enough whatever floats your boat . . . but appears that you seemed to be of the opinion that things are centered outwardly from Manning and that he is a reason that for Denver's offensive success, as opposed to maybe, just a thought here, the failings of the opposing team's defense . . .

Now I got no problem with how you want to frame the discussion, be it PM greatness or the failing of the opposing D's . .. but if you are going to place the credit in the lap of QB . . . then you might just want to place the success of your opponent's offenses in the first 5 games in the laps of the QB's and not the failing of your defense . . . afterall if one one QB can be the reason for success so can't the opponents QBs . ..

and you guys have faced the following (PPG ranking)

Big Ben and the Pitt off. (#16)

Matt Ryan and the Falcon offense (some are saying he might be a MVP canidate this year) (#6)

Matt Shaubb and the Houston offense (#2)

Oakland (#29 - one of the games you won btw)

Mr. Tom Brady and the pats offense (#1)

so the three games you lost was to the #1, #2, and #6 ranked scoring teams with three of the top say 8 or 10 QBs in the league, and the two games you won were against the middle of the road Steelers and animic Raiders

So before you start going all off on the D as failing, you might want to give some credit to the three opposing teams who seem to have had put up some good scores against the rest of the league . . . just a thought . . .

[Yehoodi]

Manning did need help. THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. I've said numerous times he got it in the 2006 playoffs and that's why Indy even won a SB.

Manning and the likes of his receivers and guys like Freeney/Mathis were enough to get to the playoffs every season. However, all but once EVERY time they'd ultimately come up short. Why? No D. No special teams. And usually winding up going against eventual SB champion caliber defenses.

In Baltimore's case, as well as all of the 2006 playoffs, the D was up to the challenge. In Baltimore's case it was a game of ball control against the best defense in football. Manning turned the ball over twice, but the D and special teams (Adam V.) won the day while the O managed the clock. Balt's D was great, Manning had a hard time against it. WHO WOULDN'T?

The Colts beat the top 3 defensive teams on their way to a SB win. And lit up something like 38 on the Pats in the process. The D gave up 34, but buckled down a bit in the second half and sealed the win with a game ending INT.

Manning got help in the playoffs ONCE from this team in the playoffs - and the Colts won the Superbowl. Who dragged the god awful special teams, D, and from 2007 onward no O-line and no run game to the playoffs to BEGIN with? 18. Guys like Freeney, Wayne, Harrison, Clark to name a few helped along the way. That's not a team helping. Those are a handful of people at certain positions with mediocre to flat out BAD players in between.

I hear yah . . . but you can't always have a top team each year . . . and i boo poo people who want to add players around their star QB . . . i get it here in NE . . . surely one could argue a player here and a player there, perhaps letting denion Branch go the first time or AV to leave NE . . .but with the salary cap its tough to keep everyone, well everyone the fans want . . . we plenty of guys up here that say "your wasting Brady's best years" "win now when you can" etc etc . .. so hear it from the NE end . . . we have had our shares of bust too . . . and i think for the most part both NE and Indy front office have done a solid job helping surround their respective QB . . .

And yes everyone chipped in 2006 and PM chipped in key points too when needed and it wasnt totally a SP or Def show . . . but i dont know when here some of the people up here on the radio at times, fans, or some of my friends, who seemed to want everything ( i got one guy that is always whining about the drafts and play calling) , it just gets my ire up . .

the way I look at it is to look at the negative . . . what if our front offices surrounded our beloved QBs with the talent on the Oakland Raiders, where do you think we'll all be . . .probably somewhat competitive a division title here and there maybe . . . but not the annual divisional title and SB contender we both have enjoyed since at least 2003 for both teams . . .

my two cents moose . . .

[Moose Of Woe]

I give all the credit to the world to the Texans, Falcons, Patriots' offenses. They're fantastic.

That doesn't excuse Denver's failure to generate turnovers and not showing up until the fourth quarter against quality teams. 3rd and 17? On the ground?

I expect Denver's D to do just fine against mediocre-poor QB's, They're a mediocre-poor squad. When matched up against GOOD QB's, though, they get absolutely ruined. Until the fourth quarter, at least.

I don't believe Denver's D is any worse than what Indy had all those years. I don't think it is the worst in the NFL. I think it is poor-mediocre, but not flat out beyond atrocious. I just don't think they're _good enough_ to help make a legitimate push for a championship run. Not enough to help, not enough to make a difference, not enough to win or close games.

A championship should be the goal for every NFL team. If you don't win the SB, 31 teams tie for second place and fail. They need to be better, and how they're playing is not how a championship defense plays. Let alone the fumbulitis offense.

And no, I certainly would NOT want the Raider's squad lol... Even if I were unfortunate enough to be a Raiders fan , though, I would expect my team to go out there and win the SB every season. If they looked lackluster (which we know is an annual occurance) I'd rip in to the facets of the team that didn't make it happen. (In their case, all of them)

Some might SETTLE or strive just to be mediocre. I don't. I want to see teams (and players) I enjoy following be the best in the world.

To me, a true fan settles for nothing BUT the best for their team. If it comes across as whining or crying to some, so be it. Complacency leads to nothing. Criticism, DRIVE, change, adaptability etc. leads to championships.

[Moose Of Woe]

Regarding the offense, and Tebow's record, he didn't play the top 3 teams in the NFL. Not that Tebow could actually throw, but he had Brandon Lloyd and the D played at a much different level than it is now. Unless it's the Patriots, where they gave up like 100 points in two games last season.

I expect the O, much like the D, to be "good enough" to win their division. When push comes to shove against GOOD teams, though, they'll lose. Especially with butterfingers.

It's not all Manning doing the work - guys like Stokely and Tamme do their share. The fact that Manning can have 0 ints, throw for 350 yards, 75% completion and still somehow the team loses leads me to believe Manning is a big reason it's even a football game and not a pounding. (Patriots/Broncos last year x2) Somewhere along the line, a lot of players aren't making plays and winning that football game.

Against weak defenses, I expect Denver to have no issues winning games. Even with stupid blunders along the way.

Does Denver have offensive talent? Sure. Is there enough? Nope. Not at the level they're playing against good defenses. All the talent in the world doesn't matter when you constantly find ways to lose the football on the opponent's 11 yard line. Same with the D finding ways not to get off the field on third and long.

Manning does need more help. He needs more than a mediocre overall squad if Denver wants to be a contender. A handful of good/great players with a crapton of poor ones (Indy) doesn't make a great team. it makes it mediocre.

In Denver's case, it's mediocre all around as is. There aren't as many individuals like Wayne, Clark, Harrison, Freeney to bring the team up. HOWEVER, all the talent in between the skill players is better.