Basham Deserves Some Praise

[Coltfreak]

1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Because he showed in 2013 and 14 that he could win just as much even without Arians.

 

So if Pagano had not gotten sick in 12 nothing would've been different.    Arians would have been standing next to Pagano making all the same play calls.    There's no reason to think we would have won fewer games.    

 

If Pagano had not done as well in 13 and 14, THEN I think you'd have an argument.    But since he did just as well,  I think any argument is moot.

 

 

 

You do realize there was a huge difference in how the offense ran before and after Pagano left right?

 

Pagano didn't earn anything in 2012 except for a clean bill of health. 2012 was all Arians.  

 

Keep faling back back to the 11-5 seasons.    Guess what McAdoo had an 11-5 season last yr too.  He must be a good coach too because of that one season 

 

 

[NewColtsFan]

19 minutes ago, Coltfreak said:

You do realize there was a huge difference in how the offense ran before and after Pagano left right?

 

Pagano didn't earn anything in 2012 except for a clean bill of health. 2012 was all Arians.  

 

Keep faling back back to the 11-5 seasons.    Guess what McAdoo had an 11-5 season last yr too.  He must be a good coach too because of that one season 

 

 

 

Pagano was the HC for all of three games.    So it's way too small a sample size to know anything.

 

But more to the point, Arians was the OC the entire time.   He had free reign to do whatever he wanted.    You think Pagano was influencing Bruce Arians?    Seriously?     I don't think there's any reason to think that.

 

And for whatever it's worth, in my five and a half years here, this us the holiest time I've seen any poster make that claim.  Now THAT doesn't make you wrong,  I just think it's way out of left field.

 

Plus, if you're going to ding Pagano for his alleged influence on Arians, are you going to give Chuck credit for his time with Pep?   Luck cut his interceptions in half in 13 from 18 to 9...   then in 14, Luck upped his TDs from 23 to 40.   Was that Pagano doing good?    I don't think you can have it both ways...   that he can do bad but can't do any good.

 

By the way,  your view of Arians in 2012,  that it was ALL HIM,  is just your opinion.   You have zero facts to back that up.      And that's been my beef for many of the Pagano haters.

 

All opinion....     almost no facts.

 

 

[Coltfreak]

2 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Pagano was the HC for all of three games.    So it's way too small a sample size to know anything.

 

But more to the point, Arians was the OC the entire time.   He had free reign to do whatever he wanted.    You think Pagano was influencing Bruce Arians?    Seriously?     I don't think there's any reason to think that.

 

And for whatever it's worth, in my five and a half years here, this us the holiest time I've seen any poster make that claim.  Now THAT doesn't make you wrong,  I just think it's way out of left field.

 

Plus, if you're going to ding Pagano for his alleged influence on Arians, are you going to give Chuck credit for his time with Pep?   Luck cut his interceptions in half in 13 from 18 to 9...   then in 14, Luck upped his TDs from 23 to 40.   Was that Pagano doing good?    I don't think you can have it both ways...   that he can do bad but can't do any good.

 

 

 

Are you saying I am the only one you have heard give Arians credit for 2012?

[NewColtsFan]

28 minutes ago, Coltfreak said:

Are you saying I am the only one you have heard give Arians credit for 2012?

 

No.     There are plenty of those people.

 

But you're the first that I've seen say that the offense looked different in the first three games than it did the rest of the way,  and therefor that's Pagano holding Arians back.       That claim I've not seen before.

 

I suspect others might share it,   there's never any shortage of people willing to blame Pagano for anything possible.

 

I just think once arguments start getting one way....   either all good, or all bad,   then I think they lose their meaning.

 

I even defend Grigson on occasion and I'm THRILLED he got fired.    But not everything he did was terrible.

 

I think the simplest thing to do with Pagano is to claim he is average and that the franchise (especially Luck) deserves much better than average.

 

I've been posting for a year that I think Pagano's time is up and that I'll be glad when it's over and looking forward to a new Head Coach.    Not sure what more you want?      (Well, I do know what you want,  I just don't see the point)

 

[Coltfreak]

16 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

No.     There are plenty of those people.

 

But you're the first that I've seen say that the offense looked different in the first three games than it did the rest of the way,  and therefor that's Pagano holding Arians back.       That claim I've not seen before.

 

I suspect others might share it,   there's never any shortage of people willing to blame Pagano for anything possible.

 

I just think once arguments start getting one way....   either all good, or all bad,   then I think they lose their meaning.

 

I even defend Grigson on occasion and I'm THRILLED he got fired.    But not everything he did was terrible.

 

I think the simplest thing to do with Pagano is to claim he is average and that the franchise (especially Luck) deserves much better than average.

 

I've been posting for a year that I think Pagano's time is up and that I'll be glad when it's over and looking forward to a new Head Coach.    Not sure what more you want?      (Well, I do know what you want,  I just don't see the point)

 

Pags was 1-2 that season.   Arians was 10-3.  

[NewColtsFan]

33 minutes ago, Coltfreak said:

Pags was 1-2 that season.   Arians was 10-3.  

 

OK....      Time for a question from me......

 

Why are we having this discussion?

 

We both want a new coach in 2018.      We both think it's time for it.      We both think it's going to happen.

 

So,  why are we having this discussion?

 

You think Pagano is terrible.      I think he's average.       Does it really matter who is right?     We both want the same thing and we both think we're going to get it in just four weeks time.

 

So,  again.....     why are we having this discussion?

 

[crazycolt1]

7 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

OK....      Time for a question from me......

 

Why are we having this discussion?

 

We both want a new coach in 2018.      We both think it's time for it.      We both think it's going to happen.

 

So,  why are we having this discussion?

 

You think Pagano is terrible.      I think he's average.       Does it really matter who is right?     We both want the same thing and we both think we're going to get it in just fur weeks time.

 

So,  again.....     why are we having this discussion?

 

Because he can't debate without him turning it into an argument because you may have a different opinion than him.  Being civil is not in his repertoire.

[Coltfreak]

14 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Because he can't debate without him turning it into an argument because you may have a different opinion than him.  Being civil is not in his repertoire.

Why are you even here shouldn't you be sharpening your axe?

[crazycolt1]

7 minutes ago, Coltfreak said:

Why are you even here shouldn't you be sharpening your axe?

 Your argumentative attitude just keeps rolling. Carry on.

[throwing BBZ]

20 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Do you even realize we had this conversation a week or two ago?     Seriously.     You made the same claim and I made NOT ONE,  but TWO posts to show how wrong you were, and I thought you acknowledged it then.    But perhaps that was just lip service to change the subject.

 

But If you're going to be spectacularly wrong in various threads like this and refuse to eat your vegetables,  then I'll be happy to spell out just how wrong you are.....

 

Anderson starting had nothig to do with Art Jones.     Both started from the season opener.    Henry didn't start because Jones was hurt.     He started because he earned it.     And so did Jones,  who suffered a high ankle sparing in week 2 on a Monday night game that we lost to Philly.      Jones started 3 games out of the 9 that he played,   but that was including weeks 1 and 2.

 

And Pagano has handled Wilson and Mack perfectly.     Do you see Ballard doing anything about it?     You think he'd let Pagano screw up his draft picks?    Hardly.    Wilson didn't play because he's young (Pags called him the youngest player in the draft and Monachino called him immature and he doesn't know how to practice and prepare.)   

 

Here is the recent article about Wilson and what the coaches have said about him.    Oh,  and let's scratch off another bogie-man here....    there's not a word about Special Teams in the article.   That's another false assertion made famous by the uninformed on this website.    Posters here have turned a passing comment, an example into the entire reason why Wilson doesn't play.     It's 100% false.

 

http://www.espn.com/blog/indianapolis-colts/post/_/id/22232/second-round-pick-quincy-wilsons-inactivity-has-been-one-of-colts-biggest-mysteries

 

Monachino clearly says they love Wilson and they know he can play.   That he played well in the Rams game.    But he doesn't know how to practice or prepare.     Imagine how bad he has to be between Monday and Friday for him NOT TO BE PLAYING?!?    Monachino clearly says other players, less talented players are outworking Wilson.    And when he learns how to prepare properly, he will play.     Wilson has to grow-up.   They're not going to let him start when other, lesser players,  are clearly outworking and out preparing the kid.   They're trying to teach him lessons.    

 

As for Mack,  in case you haven't noticed,  he's not doing very well.     Why?     Because, for right now, he's got limited game.      He doesn't know how to run well between the tackles and doesn't know how to pass block.    Some of the games he didn't play at all in the middle of the season were due to the fact that he was hurt and couldn't play.

But when Mack is playing,  he's not doing much and Gore is out-producing him.    Mack is a one trick pony.   He runs outside well.    He can break off good runs.     But there's more to being a good RB than that.

 

Finally.....    I'll slam dunk this entire notion of yours about Pags and rookies.     I did it before,  I'll do it again.

 

If Pags is so bad with rookies,   who is the player who left Indy and went elsewhere and turned out to be a really good player for another team?       I'll wait.     Who is that player?      If these players are so good and Pags is so terrible,  they must have gone elsewhere and done really well.      Who is that player?      

 

I don't think you're going to find a single one.

 

 

 Every now and then you get it right and post meaningful stuff.                                                       

[Coltfreak]

13 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

 Your argumentative attitude just keeps rolling. Carry on.

If you don't like I stop commenting on my posts.   

 

Pagano will be gone soon.....  hopefully some will follow 

[crazycolt1]

1 minute ago, Coltfreak said:

If you don't like I stop commenting on my posts.   

 

Pagano will be gone soon.....  hopefully some will follow 

Pagano may be gone but I can't speak for anyone else but me. I been a Colts fan more than likely longer than you been born. So don't bet on me going anywhere.

[Coltfreak]

2 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Pagano may be gone but I can't speak for anyone else but me. I been a Colts fan more than likely longer than you been born. So don't bet on me going anywhere.

Well that makes you pretty old then. And that way you are 

 

I figured your follow Pags to that big wood pile in the sky when this season is over.    

[crazycolt1]

2 minutes ago, Coltfreak said:

Well that makes you pretty old then. And that way you are 

 

I figured your follow Pags to that big wood pile in the sky when this season is over.    

And that way you are?  Is that a sentence? 

I figured your follow?    No it's you will or you'll.

Should have stayed in school.

[Coltfreak]

1 minute ago, crazycolt1 said:

And that way you are?  Is that a sentence? 

I figured your follow?    No it's you will or you'll.

Should have stayed in school.

You'll argue about anything ya know that?   I'd like to say I'll miss you when you and Pagano move on.  But I won't....

[crazycolt1]

2 minutes ago, Coltfreak said:

You'll argue about anything ya know that?   I'd like to say I'll miss you when you and Pagano move on.  But I won't....

It's been a long time since I was in school but at least I learned something as simple as English.

[Coltfreak]

4 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

It's been a long time since I was in school but at least I learned something as simple as English.

You should have learned math.    

 

PAG CRAP + HEAD COACH = SUCKS 

[crazycolt1]

2 minutes ago, Coltfreak said:

You should have learned math.    

 

Pagano  + HEAD COACH = SUCKS 

You have become comical. 

Here is your pom  poms you have earned.

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 Every now and then you get it right and post meaningful stuff.                                                       

 

Hey.....    even a broken clock is right twice a day!    Even a blind squirrel finds the occasional acorn!     Even a ....    oh never mind,   I appreciate the kind words...     

[ColtsBlitz]

15 hours ago, dgambill said:

He did...which all that means to me is that he was good enough to be playing every Sunday and contributing...Basham at this point hasn't proven worthy of that. Perhaps our OLB are better and its harder for him to get on the field....but Werner was playing behind Mathis and Waldon so I'd say its a wash as far as talent ahead of him. I'm far from giving up on Basham but I've no where seen anything that suggests from his on the field play he is going to have a better career than Werners yet.

Sheard and Simon are both really good. Mathis was mainly pass rush strong (obviously) but he wasn’t as good at setting the edge as Sheard is. Basham could be better, but I like he’s at least showing up, not a total non factor. 

[rock8591]

Basham I see as being a 45 tackle, 6 sacks a year guy, edge setter, kinda like Pernell McPhee.

[Reidm]

Can you guys please stop arguing. I'm really tired of reading through all this back and forth nonsense just to find posts about Basham. Oh btw just in case you didn't know this is a thread about Basham.....

[crazycolt1]

24 minutes ago, Reidm said:

Can you guys please stop arguing. I'm really tired of reading through all this back and forth nonsense just to find posts about Basham. Oh btw just in case you didn't know this is a thread about Basham.....

I see you are relatively new to this forum. You will soon learn when the team is doing bad that is the way things are here.

Yes we get side tracked but most just say what's on their mind.

Welcome to the Colts forum.

[GoColts8818]

On 12/5/2017 at 7:40 PM, Coltfreak said:

Pags was 1-2 that season.   Arians was 10-3.  

People like to pretend Pagano did no coaching before he got sick.  A lot of the head coachs work is done in the off-season and training camp.  That builds the foundation of your season.  Pagano coached those. Also Arians didn’t come in and throw out everything Chuck did.  In fact he made it a point to follow what Chuck wanted and what Chuck had started.  So to completely dismiss 2012, especially given the success that followed in 2013 and 2014 without Arians, is not fair.  Yes Arians deserves the coach of the year award he got that season and the head coaching job he got with the Cardinals from it but Pagano deserves some credit too.  

[GoColts8818]

18 hours ago, ColtsBlitz said:

Sheard and Simon are both really good. Mathis was mainly pass rush strong (obviously) but he wasn’t as good at setting the edge as Sheard is. Basham could be better, but I like he’s at least showing up, not a total non factor. 

Sheard is more a true 3-4 linebacker.  Mathis was really a 4-3 end playing in a 3-4 and he was also a pass rushing specialist.  I think the fact Mathis did so well at rushing the QB in both defense speaks to just how special he was.  

 

Simon is really good at being the edge setter on the other side.  I hope Basham can develop into a pass rush speicealest because if he develops into that and you get him and Sheard rushing on passing downs good things are going to happen for the Colts.  Basham is still a ways away from that though although he’s shown a couple of flashes.

[OLD FAN MAN]

anyone who gets a sack for this team deserves praise, we dont get many

[crazycolt1]

17 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

People like to pretend Pagano did no coaching before he got sick.  A lot of the head coachs work is done in the off-season and training camp.  That builds the foundation of your season.  Pagano coached those. Also Arians didn’t come in and throw out everything Chuck did.  In fact he made it a point to follow what Chuck wanted and what Chuck had started.  So to completely dismiss 2012, especially given the success that followed in 2013 and 2014 without Arians, is not fair.  Yes Arians deserves the coach of the year award he got that season and the head coaching job he got with the Cardinals from it but Pagano deserves some credit too.  

That don't matter to those who look for every reason an imagination can come up with to rag on Pagano.

Heck, last week Pagano was being ragged on because he didn't act like they wanted him to do in a press conference.

[Defjamz26]

On 12/6/2017 at 11:48 AM, rock8591 said:

Basham I see as being a 45 tackle, 6 sacks a year guy, edge setter, kinda like Pernell McPhee.

And that’s okay. We can get a true explosive edge rusher one day.