Colts 7 round mock by usatoday

[Hoosiernsavga]

This is one of the worst mocks I have seen lately IMO. Beckwith may be the best value pick  in the 4th. 

[NewColtsFan]

3 hours ago, Tmoney said:

Do you see that from what we have now? Or after adding a peace? One more quality player and I can see that happening, specifically if we could acquire a nice LT in FA, and move Costanzo to RT where he's most likely more natural. He's a great run blocker, but isn't consistent enough in pass blocking to be your blind side guy. 

 

My understanding is that Castanzo graded out pretty highly this year.     I think I read somewhere around 13-16, I don't specifically remember.      I'm modestly hopeful that we have the pieces that we need for a complete line in house already.   But if Ballard and Philbin want to sign a FA guy (hopefully not too expensive) and/or draft someone around round 4 or later,  then I'd be fine with that.     Can't get enough quality depth on the o-line.    Especially not with our history of guys getting injured.

 

The other problem with Castanzo moving to the other side is dollars.    He's not going to take a pay-cut to move to Right Tackle, and we're not going to pay him Left Tackle money on the right side.

 

I think Haeg and Clark are poised to dramatically improve this year.     And then both again,  especially Clark should get even better in 2018 as well.     I think we have a young, promising o-line that should get nothing but better.      I didn't even mention Kelly,  but I'm a huge fan and his future is as bright as can be.

 

So, I'm thinking 2-3 years from now Castanzo gets either traded or cut,  Clark flips to the Left Side and Perhaps Haeg moves to RT,  or we find another RT in the draft.     Those guys are easier to find then Left Side guys.....

 

I'm a big, big believer in Philbin,  and until he demonstrates otherwise,  I'm a believer in Ballard.    Between these two guys,  I think our O-line is in good shape.

 

Sorry this post went so long.....    wanted to address all your concerns...

 

[akcolt]

6 hours ago, Tmoney said:

Do you see that from what we have now? Or after adding a peace? One more quality player and I can see that happening, specifically if we could acquire a nice LT in FA, and move Costanzo to RT where he's most likely more natural. He's a great run blocker, but isn't consistent enough in pass blocking to be your blind side guy. 

Why do you think moving Castonzo to RT a position he has little experience at is the big move we need? The guy has been a LT his entire career. What exactly are you basing him being a more natural RT on? 

[jameszeigler834]

1 hour ago, akcolt said:

Why do you think moving Castonzo to RT a position he has little experience at is the big move we need? The guy has been a LT his entire career. What exactly are you basing him being a more natural RT on? 

Even Jeff Saturday a future HOF center said when he was first drafted he was a more natural RT and his last year at Boston College he was playing I am pretty sure it was RT.

[aaron11]

14 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

The line is still a problem until it's performing at a much higher level.

 

It ended the year performing at an acceptable level,  but it can still get a LOT better.     And I expect it to.

 

I'll be surprised and disappointed if, after one more year,  our line is not graded out as a top-8 OL.

 

Top 25% in the league is my goal for for the o-line in 2018. 

 

 

i was talking about run blocking.  we may not be anything special, but gore had close to 4 ypc and 1000 for the season

 

the problem with our twenty third ranked rushing game is not the blocking, its that we dont have a RB on the roster that we can give 25 carries a game to

 

 

[Jason_]

2 hours ago, aaron11 said:

i was talking about run blocking.  we may not be anything special, but gore had close to 4 ypc and 1000 for the season

 

the problem with our twenty third ranked rushing game is not the blocking, its that we dont have a RB on the roster that we can give 25 carries a game to

 

 

 

we don't need a RB that we can give 25 carries a game to.  Not many teams have that guy anymore.  We have other RBs on the roster that can produce. Turbin averaged 3.5 per carry which isn't great, but it's still respectable.  Todman also produced when he got the chance.  so the lack of running game is more on playcalling than anything. 

[aaron11]

7 minutes ago, Jason_S said:

 

we don't need a RB that we can give 25 carries a game to. 

it would be the easiest way to get better on offense

 

something needs to change or we will stay in the bottom half of the league in rushing

 

there is not a team in the league that would want to give turbin 10+15 carries a game, he is not the answer

 

 

 

[CR91]

4 minutes ago, Jason_S said:

 

we don't need a RB that we can give 25 carries a game to.  Not many teams have that guy anymore.  We have other RBs on the roster that can produce. Turbin averaged 3.5 per carry which isn't great, but it's still respectable.  Todman also produced when he got the chance.  so the lack of running game is more on playcalling than anything. 

 

25 carries is 25 plays luck isn't getting hit. Protecting luck isn't only about the oline. Teams don't respect our run game and they have no reason to so they blitz luck constantly. No one is scared of a 34 year old rb that grinds out 3 or 4 yards a carry

[Jason_]

2 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

25 carries is 25 plays luck isn't getting hit. Protecting luck isn't only about the oline. Teams don't respect our run game and they have no reason to so they blitz luck constantly. No one is scared of a 34 year old rb that grinds out 3 or 4 yards a carry

 

you COMPLETELY missed my point.  I said we don't need A RB (singular, as in one guy) to carry the ball 25 times per game.  Not many teams have that type of guy anymore.  Most are going to RB by committee, including the colts.  We don't need one guy to give the ball to 25 times per game, but we should be running the ball 25 to 30 times per game imo.

[CR91]

1 minute ago, Jason_S said:

 

you COMPLETELY missed my point.  I said we don't need A RB (singular, as in one guy) to carry the ball 25 times per game.  Not many teams have that type of guy anymore.  Most are going to RB by committee, including the colts.  We don't need one guy to give the ball to 25 times per game, but we should be running the ball 25 to 30 times per game imo.

 

Last two years it's been mostly gore carrying the ball. Turbin only gets short yardage and goaline looks mostly.

[Jason_]

4 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

it would be the easiest way to get better on offense

 

something needs to change or we will stay in the bottom half of the league in rushing

 

no...it woulnd't.  not giving up on the running game and continuing to improve the OL would be the easiest ways to get better on offense.

 

Quote

there is not a team in the league that would want to give turbin 10+15 carries a game, he is not the answer

 

of course he's not the answer...I never said he was.  but between he and Todman they could have easily handled those 10-15 carries per game.

[Jason_]

Just now, CR91 said:

 

Last two years it's been mostly gore carrying the ball. Turbin only gets short yardage and goaline looks mostly.

 

yeah, no kidding.  that's kind of been my point this whole time.  he (and Todman) could have been given more carries to help spread the load if they wanted to maintain Gore's pitch count.

[CR91]

3 minutes ago, Jason_S said:

 

yeah, no kidding.  that's kind of been my point this whole time.  he (and Todman) could have been given more carries to help spread the load if they wanted to maintain Gore's pitch count.

 

But that's the thing. Turbin and todman are just JAGs. Their not game changers like cook

[aaron11]

4 minutes ago, Jason_S said:

 he (and Todman) could have been given more carries to help spread the load if they wanted to maintain Gore's pitch count.

thats still not good enough if we want our running game to actually be good

 

its going to take a better back than them

[Coffeedrinker]

On 2/20/2017 at 9:59 PM, chad72 said:

He is giving us a MASH unit with potential upside  

 

I just don't think we will be taking as many risks with players coming off injuries. I am fine with the RB and OLB pick but not a big fan of the secondary picks, that is just me. I love the ILB pick as well.

I was thinking the same thing.  I don't know much about the injuries of any of those players and I don't know if they are oft injured of it it was a one time type injury.  But as Dungy was fond of saying, the most important ability is availability and it doesn't matter if a player has all the talent in the world if they are not on the field much it doesn't do much good.

[NewColtsFan]

3 hours ago, aaron11 said:

i was talking about run blocking.  we may not be anything special, but gore had close to 4 ypc and 1000 for the season

 

the problem with our twenty third ranked rushing game is not the blocking, its that we dont have a RB on the roster that we can give 25 carries a game to

 

 

 

Most team don't have a runner to give the ball 25 times a game to.     

 

And there are several reasons for that....    one,  teams don't want to give the ball to any one RB for 25 carries.    I mean,   a few times per year --- maybe.      But they typically don't want one guy carrying a huge load that often.    So,  most team do a time share.       A lead back for 15-20 carries,  and a change of pace back for 8-12 carries.

 

Also,  there just many RB's built to take that kind of punishment.    Guys like Fournette are the exception,  not the rule.     Even in this great class of runners,  there just aren't many backs that carried the load that much.    Even most colleges do a bit of a time share. 

 

The run blocking got better....   it was acceptable.    But it needs to get better.    It's capable of being much, much better.     I'm looking for our line to be among the league best for a number of years....     When you have a great line,  you can do most anything....

 

[aaron11]

32 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Also,  there just many RB's built to take that kind of punishment.    Guys like Fournette are the exception,  not the rule.     Even in this great class of runners,  there just aren't many backs that carried the load that much.    Even most colleges do a bit of a time share. 

 

 

i would definitely consider a guy like cook or LF or elliot with our first round picks

 

thats what this conversation was about...

 

i said my "dream target" was foster, but thats looking more and more like a pipe dream

 

 

[Jason_]

5 hours ago, CR91 said:

 

But that's the thing. Turbin and todman are just JAGs. Their not game changers like cook

 

Hey, you're getting really good at this "stating the obvious" game that you're playing.  well done.

 

No, Turbin and Todman aren't game changers.  No spit sherlock. That's why they're backups.  My point is you don't HAVE to have a gamechanger at RB, but you DO have to have gamechangers on defense.  We have neither, so I would rather get the ones that we have to have before considering one that we don't.

[Jason_]

5 hours ago, aaron11 said:

thats still not good enough if we want our running game to actually be good

 

its going to take a better back than them

 

No, not really.  All we need is an effective running game...average between 3.5-5 yards per carry.  That will make play action valuable and that will keep defenses honest.  We don't have to have the best RB in the draft in order to have a good running game. 

[COLTS449]

20 minutes ago, Jason_S said:

 

Hey, you're getting really good at this "stating the obvious" game that you're playing.  well done.

 

No, Turbin and Todman aren't game changers.  No spit sherlock. That's why they're backups.  My point is you don't HAVE to have a gamechanger at RB, but you DO have to have gamechangers on defense.  We have neither, so I would rather get the ones that we have to have before considering one that we don't.

 

Completely agree Roger. ....Or should I say tearjerker? And you can find a 3 down feature back in the 2nd-4th or even the 5th some years. I'd double up in the 3rd and 5th. Mixon is who I want. I know about his issues, but as long as he stays out of trouble he's Bell 2.0. Bet on it.

 

BTW. Roger is like the greatest character EVER. IMO

[CR91]

26 minutes ago, Jason_S said:

 

Hey, you're getting really good at this "stating the obvious" game that you're playing.  well done.

 

No, Turbin and Todman aren't game changers.  No spit sherlock. That's why they're backups.  My point is you don't HAVE to have a gamechanger at RB, but you DO have to have gamechangers on defense.  We have neither, so I would rather get the ones that we have to have before considering one that we don't.

 

I'm told its one of my best qualities

 

if year after year we complain we cant protect luck and he gets hit too much, why not do something about it. we helped the oline now lets help the running game. 3-4 yards a carry wont keep any defense honest and because we keep just putting JAGs back there, luck will never have a good running game to rely on and hes gonna continue to get hit time and time again

[Jason_]

41 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

I'm told its one of my best qualities

 

if year after year we complain we cant protect luck and he gets hit too much, why not do something about it. we helped the oline now lets help the running game. 3-4 yards a carry wont keep any defense honest and because we keep just putting JAGs back there, luck will never have a good running game to rely on and hes gonna continue to get hit time and time again

 

Really?  So LeGarrette Blount didn't keep defenses honest?  Marshawn Lynch didn't?  Look at their averages the last few years...right around, and sometimes under, 4 yards per carry. 

 

UNDER 3 yards per carry won't keep defenses honest...but in the 3-4 range, yeah it will.  That's an average of a first down every 3 carries.  Defenses have to respect that and it will open up play action. 

[CR91]

14 minutes ago, Jason_S said:

 

Really?  So LeGarrette Blount didn't keep defenses honest?  Marshawn Lynch didn't?  Look at their averages the last few years...right around, and sometimes under, 4 yards per carry. 

 

UNDER 3 yards per carry won't keep defenses honest...but in the 3-4 range, yeah it will.  That's an average of a first down every 3 carries.  Defenses have to respect that and it will open up play action. 

 

and how many 20+ runs did they have? have many 20+ runs have we have had over the past 5 years? 

[SaturdayAllDay]

22 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

and how many 20+ runs did they have? have many 20+ runs have we have had over the past 5 years? 

 

 

Edit: read the wrong Column . My bad. 

[CR91]

4 minutes ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

Blount had the same amount as Gore did.... so how did Blount keep them honest but Gore didnt?

 

show me that stat.

[SaturdayAllDay]

Just now, CR91 said:

 

show me that stat.

already edited. misread on my part. 

[SaturdayAllDay]

1 minute ago, CR91 said:

 

show me that stat.

But admittedly I wouldnt say that is the main metric for keeping a defense honest. If that were the case then GB would have had a fantastic rushing attack last year, as Ty Montgomery had more 20+ runs than LeVeon Bell. 

[Tmoney]

14 hours ago, akcolt said:

Why do you think moving Castonzo to RT a position he has little experience at is the big move we need? The guy has been a LT his entire career. What exactly are you basing him being a more natural RT on? 

Because he's an inconsistent pass blocker who excells in the run game. That's your ideal RT. Might not have the experience but has the traits of a very good RT and a very average LT, which is what he's been his whole career.

[CR91]

6 minutes ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

But admittedly I wouldnt say that is the main metric for keeping a defense honest. If that were the case then GB would have had a fantastic rushing attack last year, as Ty Montgomery had more 20+ runs than LeVeon Bell. 

 

Again show the stat

[SaturdayAllDay]

3 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

Again show the stat

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?seasonType=REG&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=RUSHING_20PLUS_YARDS_EACH&tabSeq=0&season=2016&experience=&Submit=Go&archive=false&conference=null&statisticCategory=RUSHING&qualified=false

 

Ty had 5, Bell had 4. on significantly fewer carries for Ty.

[aaron11]

2 hours ago, Jason_S said:

 

No, not really.  All we need is an effective running game...average between 3.5-5 yards per carry.  That will make play action valuable and that will keep defenses honest.  We don't have to have the best RB in the draft in order to have a good running game. 

with that logic ill say we dont have to spend our first round pick on a defender to have a good defense

 

the reason id be ok with drafting a back early is that just one single player could raise our running game from meh, to really good

[CR91]

12 minutes ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?seasonType=REG&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=RUSHING_20PLUS_YARDS_EACH&tabSeq=0&season=2016&experience=&Submit=Go&archive=false&conference=null&statisticCategory=RUSHING&qualified=false

 

Ty had 5, Bell had 4. on significantly fewer carries for Ty.

 

Oh come on that was like gimmick running. Can't count that

[SaturdayAllDay]

Just now, CR91 said:

 

Oh come on that was like gimmick running. Can't count that

Ok so then tell me this. Would you take 2015 Gore over 2016 Bell or 2016 Demarco Murray? Gore had 5 20+ runs in 2015....

[SaturdayAllDay]

3 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

Oh come on that was like gimmick running. Can't count that

Or does Mike Gillislees 7 runs of 20+ yds make him better than Bell?

 

How about the Eagles? Ryan Mathews had more than Bell did. Were the Eagles a feared rushing attack this year?

[CR91]

2 minutes ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

Ok so then tell me this. Would you take 2015 Gore over 2016 Bell or 2016 Demarco Murray? Gore had 5 20+ runs in 2015....

 

Murray is hot and cold so you don't really know what you're getting. Bell missed 4 games so I'm sure he would have gotten more then 5

[CR91]

2 minutes ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

Or does Mike Gillislees 7 runs of 20+ yds make him better than Bell?

 

How about the Eagles? Ryan Mathews had more than Bell did. Were the Eagles a feared rushing attack this year?

 

Weren't the bills the top rushing team or atleast top 5. Bell missed 4 games

[SaturdayAllDay]

2 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

Weren't the bills the top rushing team or atleast top 5. Bell missed 4 games

Sure the Bills were, but not it was not because of Gillisee. But fine. 

 

How about the Eagles though? or the Ravens? are you saying that West and Mathews are better RBs than Bell. Sure Bell missed games but he had 261 carries vs Wests 193 and Mathews 155?

[SaturdayAllDay]

8 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

Murray is hot and cold so you don't really know what you're getting. Bell missed 4 games so I'm sure he would have gotten more then 5

Bell missed games yet still got the carries to make it up. Bell had 261 carries this year. Which coincidentally is almost identical to the 260 Gore had in 2015. Which again brings up the questions, touch for touch, which RB would YOU pick? IF you say Bell, then your 20+ run argument is nonsense. 

[CR91]

1 minute ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

Bell missed games yet still got the carries to make it up. Bell had 261 carries this year. Which coincidentally is almost identical to the 260 Gore had in 2015. Which again brings up the questions, touch for touch, which RB would YOU pick? IF you say Bell, then your 20+ run argument is nonsense. 

 

And what about Zeke? He led the league in 20+ runs and he was the top back last year. You're only picking on bell who missed a lot of games the last two seasons before this year.

[aaron11]

5 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

And what about Zeke? He led the league in 20+ runs and he was the top back last year. You're only picking on bell who missed a lot of games the last two seasons before this year.

this guy wants to keep comparing gore's carry count to guys that missed games for some reason

 

i guess a lot of backs were hurt in 15, becasue this year there were several guys that had more plus the leader by far was a rookie