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Where did this need for 2 tight ends come from


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#41 tonychen

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 01:50 PM

Fleener was not healthy for a mojor part of the season so people may not see how good he is, but it is understandable that Colts brought him in as Luck's security blanket. Now the Stanford OC is here and you will see how much more they can do.

 

Again numbers are numbers and it will come down to the execution. When you really don't have any reliable WR other than an aging Wayne I don't blame them for drafting athletic and versitle TEs in the early rounds.



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#42 NewColtsFan

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 02:05 PM

2Te sets  creates better mismatch problems then 3 wr sets because Te's are much better blockers in the run game and they can catch just as good. If you have 2 athletic Te's like we do then it could be very hard to stop because most defenses will come out with base personal sets 4-3 or 3-4 which will have a lb trying to cover a guy like Fleener with 4.5 speed. You have to have a good o-line for it to work because those te's will be out running routes and the rb will be the only guy to help chip the great speed rushers. If we can sign 2 quality o-linemen like a Bushrod and Vasquez then Fleener and Allen should have huge impact next year.Wouldn't surprise me at all if Fleener had 90 catches 1,000 and over 10 td's.  Jimmy graham did nothing his rookie year but had a breakout sophmore year because the offense was designed for him to be the 1st option. I think Wayne role will decrease and Fleener will be 1a and Wayne 1b.

 

You may be right, but I will be shocked if Fleener is Luck's top target next year.   He was never Luck's top target at Stanford.  If you'll forgive me the baesball metaphor....   Fleener is the change-up that Luck throws instead of the fastball.    Teams aren't expecting it.    And it catches them by surprise.    

 

Don't get me wrong, I expect Fleener to catch more passes next year....  a lot....   but 90?    again, I'd be very surprised.   I expect Allen to catch more than he did this year too.     Our TE's caught 71 passes this year.    I'd expect the duo to catch at least 100 next year, maybe even a bit more...   but 100 is my minimum target for Allen/Fleener.

 

But we still need to use the WR's extensively....    that's what the NFL is built for these days....   unless you're Gronkowski & Hernandez....



#43 lollygagger8

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 03:44 PM

Grisgson stuck to his board. BPA. The End.



#44 jvan1973

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 04:17 PM

Grisgson stuck to his board. BPA. The End.

I'm not sure about that. I doubt fleener was his bpa at 34. I think he was brought in for luck. I'm not suggesting fleener was a huge reach, but i think even Stanford fans would agree there were better players available

#45 BLOODontheTRACKS

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 11:09 PM

I'm not sure about that. I doubt fleener was his bpa at 34. I think he was brought in for luck. I'm not suggesting fleener was a huge reach, but i think even Stanford fans would agree there were better players available


I wish the notion that "fleener was brought in for luck" would die.....it's just ridiculous. Fleener went right around where many had him ranked.

#46 esmort

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 01:28 AM

I wish the notion that "fleener was brought in for luck" would die.....it's just ridiculous. Fleener went right around where many had him ranked.

 

I won't go so far as to say we only brought in Fleener for Luck, but I think it would be naive to think Luck's presence did not play some part in the decision.



#47 SteelCityColt

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 03:57 AM

I wish the notion that "fleener was brought in for luck" would die.....it's just ridiculous. Fleener went right around where many had him ranked.

 

Agreed, many mocks had him being taken in the 1st round so it wasn't that much of a reach. If so many teams hadn't reached for QBs in the 1st I think he would have gone higher.

 

I won't go so far as to say we only brought in Fleener for Luck, but I think it would be naive to think Luck's presence did not play some part in the decision.

 

And I agree with this, I think the preexisting relationship with Luck contributed to Grigson thinking Fleener was the BPA (for us) when we were on the clock.

 

The only major issue I have with Fleener is less than perfect hands which I'm sure contributes to his 26/48 ratio of receptions to targets, though not every throw was exactly on the money (hard to be accurate flat on your back!). I might be a little harsh here too as this sort of conversion looks about par for our receivers this season (including Reggie)

. When he DOES catch the ball he's been very productive (Avrg 10.8 yards and 14 FDs). Throw in a nagging shoulder injury, and all in all no way can you call him a bust. Give him a chance next season to show what he can do and I'm sure a lot people will change their tune. If it wasn't for Allen having such a good season I don't think there would be as much of a debate on here. 



#48 BLOODontheTRACKS

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 04:18 AM

I won't go so far as to say we only brought in Fleener for Luck, but I think it would be naive to think Luck's presence did not play some part in the decision.


I think it would be foolish to think a gm, who is paid seven figures, would chose a high draft pick to placate a rookie QB.

#49 esmort

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 04:55 AM

I think it would be foolish to think a gm, who is paid seven figures, would chose a high draft pick to placate a rookie QB.

 

Drafting him ONLY to "placate" Luck would be foolish I agree, but that's not I was insinuating. However taking ALL facts into account (including the fact your new rookie QB is comfortable with him) when deciding who to draft would be a smart decision "by a GM, who is paid seven figures".  I find it hard to believe that the connection (and its possible benefit) did not even enter Grigson's mind in the slightest prior to making the decision on who to draft.



#50 BLOODontheTRACKS

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 11:05 AM

Drafting him ONLY to "placate" Luck would be foolish I agree, but that's not I was insinuating. However taking ALL facts into account (including the fact your new rookie QB is comfortable with him) when deciding who to draft would be a smart decision "by a GM, who is paid seven figures".  I find it hard to believe that the connection (and its possible benefit) did not even enter Grigson's mind in the slightest prior to making the decision on who to draft.


Lets agree to disagree because for some reason this topic annoys me to no end

#51 throwing BBZ

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 12:18 PM

Fleenor & Allen got great experience working on their blocking this season.
BA gave Andrew Huge experience throwing downfield.
Think of this as building blocks. Worked pretty darned good in year one didn`t it? ;)

Those are in the Toolbox now. Work on the shorter timing stuff and running game a lot next season, can you see where we are headed?

Allen played a lot of H-back even running it a few times. Allen stays in to block a lot and did very well chipping with a late release as the D is stretched and pulled downfield. Lots of uses for two tight end sets and we got some nice plays out of our 3rd TE also.

I would expect us to throw 100 times less next season, so the reception #`s will go down in general as this new offense will spread the ball around. Reggie more likely to catch 70-80 than 106.

#52 MikeVander

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 04:26 PM

  I'd expect the duo to catch at least 100 next year, maybe even a bit more...   but 100 is my minimum target for Allen/Fleener.

 

I don't the catches is an accurate statistic for success or productivity. More than likely we'll be seeing more catches by everyone if we run a WCO.


You don't win on emotion. You win on execution. -Tony Dungy


#53 NewColtsFan

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 05:23 PM

I don't the catches is an accurate statistic for success or productivity. More than likely we'll be seeing more catches by everyone if we run a WCO.

 

 

Yes....   agreed....  I'd expect more catches for everyone -- except Reggie, who had more than 100 this year.

 

But for TYH and Avery (if he's back) and Brazil....  yes, more catches.

 

But, if we're going to have a two tight end offense and spend 2nd and 3rd round draft picks on clearly the best two tight ends in that draft and then only throw the ball to them for 71 catches seems an under-use to me...   So, I think there's more room for their catches to go up...

 

Also...  I think it helps the overall offense more....  keep both tight ends busy, and you'll create more match-up problems and confusion for the defense...

 

Just my view of things...








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