Colts Corner Coverage

[Gavin]

For the purpose of this thread I will make my attempt at examining how many times in total the Colts secondary gave a "cushion" to wide receivers for the entire 2011 season. I would define "cushion" as 7 yards or more , I will also include how many times they were thrown on in those situations, how many completions and how many yards after the catch and how many completions, I will do this for entire 2011 season using NFL Game Rewind. More to come soon

[DarkHorse]

Sounds like good research. U got my attention.

[Gavin]

Sounds like good research. U got my attention.

NFL.com is doing maintenance right now so I will probably head to bed they aren't scheduled to be done until 6 am my time and its 5 18 am here plus this wont be done all in one day anyway

[CS Colts Fan]

look forward to this Gavin.. thanks for the time and work to post this for us

[Mameluc]

that is going to take you a long time

[Gavin]

that is going to take you a long time

Yeah you arent kidding, Im going to try to do one game a night and add the defensive plays up, I tried doing a couple games in a row but my head started to spin and I got the feeling thats how a head coach feels sometimes (not that what I was doing has anything to do with what a head coach but ya know what I mean

[dgambill]

No offense but what are you trying to prove or define doing this?

[Gavin]

No offense but what are you trying to prove or define doing this?

Im going back over games to see how many times we played way off the receivers such as 7 yards or more, Im not trying to prove nothing, Im simply looking to see if its just the scheme that made them look so bad or a combination of both in the debacle that was the Texans game (the first game of the season last year) it was both because we played off the receivers 7 or more yards a few times but not all the time

[Superman]

Im going back over games to see how many times we played way off the receivers such as 7 yards or more, Im not trying to prove nothing, Im simply looking to see if its just the scheme that made them look so bad or a combination of both in the debacle that was the Texans game (the first game of the season last year) it was both because we played off the receivers 7 or more yards a few times but not all the time

I don't think the defense was the big problem in the opener, but I look forward to your analysis.

[Gavin]

I don't think the defense was the big problem in the opener, but I look forward to your analysis.

Not just the opener I am looking at the whole season, Im starting to get some sort of idea of what a coach must feel like watching all this football and looking at every play and breaking it down lol

[Smonroe]

Not just the opener I am looking at the whole season, Im starting to get some sort of idea of what a coach must feel like watching all this football and looking at every play and breaking it down lol

I applaud you for doing this, but how can you see the cushion unless they threw at that specific receiver? I guess that's all that counts, but I just mean it may be a chicken or egg thing. Did they throw at the cushion because everyone else was covered, or did everyone give the cushion?

I suspect it's the latter.

[Gavin]

I applaud you for doing this, but how can you see the cushion unless they threw at that specific receiver? I guess that's all that counts, but I just mean it may be a chicken or egg thing. Did they throw at the cushion because everyone else was covered, or did everyone give the cushion?

I suspect it's the latter.

The cushion didn't seem to matter one way or the other in my opinion from what the stats show ,we were the worst team in the league against the run, in my opinion thats why we were I believe it was as high as 15th in the league last year in giving up passing yards (I'd have to look again), because ya didnt have to throw on us. you could just run it down our throats, the cushion was the 7-8 yards that our Corners were lined up across from the wide receiver not necessarily after the snap, which from what I have seen so far wasn't every time or even a large majority of the time that I have seen so far but I am only two games in, sometimes when they threw they threw at the cushion, other times not, we were 29th in the league in rushing yards allowed

[NagelHausForge]

I too am looking forward to your analysis!

[Michael Lebron]

As a former corner I agree the cushion we have given receivers over the last few years has been way pass ridiculous. I know many fans are skeptical about our secondary play as we approach this season. However one thing we need to consider is that Pagano has been a DB coach for a very long time, dating back to his college stint. I am confident that he has seen something in our core group of players that are on the roster. Now I understand us going after a proven commodity in Jenkins, but if the coaches were as worried as many of us were, we would hear more talk about us going after DB's.

[Gavin]

As a former corner I agree the cushion we have given receivers over the last few years has been way pass ridiculous. I know many fans are skeptical about our secondary play as we approach this season. However one thing we need to consider is that Pagano has been a DB coach for a very long time, dating back to his college stint. I am confident that he has seen something in our core group of players that are on the roster. Now I understand us going after a proven commodity in Jenkins, but if the coaches were as worried as many of us were, we would hear more talk about us going after DB's.

We picked up plenty undrafted Corners now, traded for one and are or were trying to trade for another, thats sounds like they are not confident in what we have, not to mention we were going for a couple Corners somewhere in the middle of the draft that got picked right before our next pick came up, the cushion wasn't so much the problem I think as the poor tackling after the catch was

[dgambill]

It could be our corners were too poor to play bump n run or press coverage. Hence the cushion was really what kept us in games and not the opposite. Would be a good explaination why Grigson has been so active in the DB market. I think we have always been poor against the run because we have typically had underperforming DTs and Freeney and to a lesser extent Mathis just run themselves out of play. This puts a strain on our LBs who are simply pretty avg and our secondary who have proven to be less then steller tacklers. To be completely and utterly honest of my opinion on our defense it simply lacked talent. This combined with our historically high powered offenses led us to run schemes that were designed to slow teams down and bend but not break. However with a terrible offense they were left on the field way to long and also allowed teams to play with a lead making the defenses job even more difficult.

In my opinion it will serve no purpose to watch our secondary and equate anything with how far off they play. To me it was simply by design and most importantly out of necessity. We may be upset we didn't change anything but to try to do so mid-season probably would have been more a disaster. This team was not built nor had the players (talent-wise/coached) to a level that would allow them to play successful any other way. We had to play the cards we were dealt. Continue to play COLTS football which was the same defense and just hope our offense could score more points. Sadly it never really did. I don't blame the coaches, players, or anyone but the situation.

I hope perhaps you find something interesting in your viewing of players. Perhaps give us grades or accessments of each of the DBs if you can. I just not sure anything as far as schemes go would have helped us last year.

[Michael Lebron]

Gavin....

The cushion was a HUGE problem, especially on 3rd down where we were terrible. Many times tackling issues are a result of techique but also Alignment. Our alignment was often 6 yards too deep.

[Gavin]

It could be our corners were too poor to play bump n run or press coverage. Hence the cushion was really what kept us in games and not the opposite. Would be a good explaination why Grigson has been so active in the DB market. I think we have always been poor against the run because we have typically had underperforming DTs and Freeney and to a lesser extent Mathis just run themselves out of play. This puts a strain on our LBs who are simply pretty avg and our secondary who have proven to be less then steller tacklers. To be completely and utterly honest of my opinion on our defense it simply lacked talent. This combined with our historically high powered offenses led us to run schemes that were designed to slow teams down and bend but not break. However with a terrible offense they were left on the field way to long and also allowed teams to play with a lead making the defenses job even more difficult.

In my opinion it will serve no purpose to watch our secondary and equate anything with how far off they play. To me it was simply by design and most importantly out of necessity. We may be upset we didn't change anything but to try to do so mid-season probably would have been more a disaster. This team was not built nor had the players (talent-wise/coached) to a level that would allow them to play successful any other way. We had to play the cards we were dealt. Continue to play COLTS football which was the same defense and just hope our offense could score more points. Sadly it never really did. I don't blame the coaches, players, or anyone but the situation.

I hope perhaps you find something interesting in your viewing of players. Perhaps give us grades or accessments of each of the DBs if you can. I just not sure anything as far as schemes go would have helped us last year.

Well Im certainly not real efficient with grades but I do try to call it like I see it, a miss tackle here, someone getting beat their, someone over pursuiting, that is something that anyone can see and look at

[Gavin]

Gavin....

The cushion was a HUGE problem, especially on 3rd down where we were terrible. Many times tackling issues are a result of techique but also Alignment. Our alignment was often 6 yards too deep.

yes I know the cushion was a big part but we were often time lined up 5-6 yards off the ball from what I have seen so far, I cant disagree and it would be pointless to, your a former DB

[Gavin]

Its also worth noting I think, that the Ravens lined their Corners up 5-7 yards and sometimes even more up off the ball to in the brief amount that I have watched them, so it certainly wasn't just us but I am still watching games

[Michael Lebron]

Agreed....5-7 yards is generally standard alignment. However 7-10 is not, especially on 3rd and 3. I guess that was my point of reference. I also agree with the fact that we aren't satisfied totally with our secondary. However I am just optimistic that we are sold on a few of our young ones but looking to add depth and potentially a solid veteren.

It is hard to gauge our Corners based on past games because we typically where in zone coverages.

[Gavin]

Agreed....5-7 yards is generally standard alignment. However 7-10 is not, especially on 3rd and 3. I guess that was my point of reference. I also agree with the fact that we aren't satisfied totally with our secondary. However I am just optimistic that we are sold on a few of our young ones but looking to add depth and potentially a solid veteren.

It is hard to gauge our Corners based on past games because we typically where in zone coverages.

Well Polian did say our Corners couldn't play man, take that for what its worth, I dont know if that true or not, from what I have seen we haven't been more then 7 but thats only in two games I watched and thats without putting any particular attention on 3rd down, I will go back and do that

[HtownColt]

Well Polian did say our Corners couldn't play man, take that for what its worth, I dont know if that true or not, from what I have seen we haven't been more then 7 but thats only in two games I watched and thats without putting any particular attention on 3rd down, I will go back and do that

It's never going be more than 7, in soft cover 2 shells corners are 5-7 yards off the ball anything further then that they are out of position and should be standing on the sideline next to the coach if he does line up further than that

[Gavin]

It's never going be more than 7, in soft cover 2 shells corners are 5-7 yards off the ball anything further then that they are out of position and should be standing on the sideline next to the coach if he does line up further than that

I will let everyone know what I find but its been alot of 5-7 and sometimes less, alot of poor tackling though, poor angles, Im heading out in a bit so I will probably continue with it tomorrow

[dgambill]

Again...I think our corners played what they were asked to play. Also, I believe they were asked to play this because they did not have the necessary skills and or knowledge to play differently. Simply we don't have the horses necessary to run that race (meaning majority cover-man). I believe that is also a significant reason that our coaches were upset in missing their man in the draft and also why they have pursued Jenkins and any other corner that has been out there.

I'm not saying our corners are doomed and the worst in the league...but they are closer to the bottom then the middle I am confident enough to say that. Hopefully, they continue to learn and get better but this isn't something that could have been fixed mid-season last year...this was part of our DNA as a team. We are rebuilding that and will probably have to continue to bring in new horses to accomplish changing our secondary.

[HtownColt]

Cover 2 - you want to be 5 yards off the ball and lined up on the inside of the WR and you want to get a smack on him and funnel him to the side lines...once you funnel him to the sidelines you look at the QB and play the flat area...If its a smash route...like you have an inside WR and he does a corner route...you yell smash and help play the corner route

 

Cover  0 or 1 is usally man to man...you can press him or play 7-8 yards off

 

Cover 3 - is Deep 3rds...you will want to play any where from 7-10 yards off the ball and play your deep 3rd...anyone that goes into your 3rd is yours and no one must get behind you.

The cushons are all up to the coaches...so i feel like it is coyers schemes that was hurting us more than the players play.  How many times did you see the RB flare play wide open...or have the inside WR wide open in the flat...or when the CBs are playing 8 yards off the ball and the WR is wide open on a hitch play or something.  Its like coyer didn't make any in game changes or fixes. thats just me.

[Gavin]

Cover 2 - you want to be 5 yards off the ball and lined up on the inside of the WR and you want to get a smack on him and funnel him to the side lines...once you funnel him to the sidelines you look at the QB and play the flat area...If its a smash route...like you have an inside WR and he does a corner route...you yell smash and help play the corner route

Cover 0 or 1 is usally man to man...you can press him or play 7-8 yards off

Cover 3 - is Deep 3rds...you will want to play any where from 7-10 yards off the ball and play your deep 3rd...anyone that goes into your 3rd is yours and no one must get behind you.

The cushons are all up to the coaches...so i feel like it is coyers schemes that was hurting us more than the players play. How many times did you see the RB flare play wide open...or have the inside WR wide open in the flat...or when the CBs are playing 8 yards off the ball and the WR is wide open on a hitch play or something. Its like coyer didn't make any in game changes or fixes. thats just me.

No I agree it didnt look like he made many adjustments if any, hopefully the adjustments we make will help our Corners but Im not expecting alot from or really much at all

[Gavin]

Total Texans offensive plays-68 plays (excluding punts)

Play 1-Colts started off 3 yards of line of scrimmage before backing up 1 yard right before ball snapped, Schaub rolled out to left passing to Andre Johnson for 21 yards

Play 2-Owen Daniels started off in backfield and broke to wide receiver position before ball was snapped, Colts Corner number 27 was 6 yards off Daniels, Schaub rolled out to right passing to Andre Johnson over his head, Johnson tipped ball causing Bullit to intercept it

Play 3-Corners are 6 yards off Texans wide receivers. Ward ran behind Left Guard for 4 yards

Play 4-Corners were 6 yards of the ball Schaub rolled to right passing to Dreesen for 21 yards

Play 5-Derrick Ward ran behind Left Tackle for 6 yards Colts Corners 6 yards off wide receivers

Play 6-Colts Corners were 5 yards off wide receivers, Ward ran behind right tackle for 9 yards

Play 7-Colts Corners were 6 yards off of wide receivers, Ben Tate ran for four yards

Play 8-Corners were 6 yards off wide receivers, pass left to Andre Johnson for 16 yards , Just Tryon on the tackle with Brackett

Play 9-Ben Tate ran right for two yards, Colts Corners 5 yards off wide receivers

Play 10- Schaub pass to Andre Johnson for 7 yards over the middle, Corners 7 yards off receivers

Play 11- (3rd down) Corners 6 yards off wide receivers, Ward for fours yards behind Left Guard

Play 12- Ward run for no gain, Corners 5 yards off Corners

Play 13- Corners 6 yards off wide receivers, pass right to Owen Daniels incomplete

Play 14- Colts Corners 6 yards off wide receivers (3rd Down) Schaub passes left to Walters, bounces off his hands and then Jones hands behind him

Play 15- Field Goal

Play 16-Schaub rolled right, Colts 6 yards off Corners, complete

Play 17-Colts Corners 6 yards off wide receivers, Tate run 4 yards

Play 18- Goal Line defense Ward 1 yard run touchdown

Play 19- Corners 7 yards off wide receivers, pass left to Jones for 10 yards

Play 20- Corners 5 yards off wide receivers

Play 21- Corners 4 yards off wide receivers Ben Tate run right for touchdown

End of First Quarter

Gettin tired heading to bed

[DarkHorse]

Thats a lot of work your taking on. Appreciate it.

[Gavin]

Mods delete this thread, I am starting over, Thank you