Jonathan Taylor comments on his contract/Request trade (Merge)

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

I do think it’s a little bit of a good sign Taylor was engaged in practice today. At least he isn’t hiding. His interaction with Anthony was good  to see. Hopefully that means something can be salvaged.  I mean Taylor paired with Richardson takes us to another level. Any running back would do well but Taylor would just be a extra boost.

[w87r]

Just now, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

I do think it’s a little bit of a good sign Taylor was engaged in practice today. At least he isn’t hiding. His interaction with Anthony was move to see. Hopefully that means something can be salvaged.  I mean Taylor paired with Richardson takes us to another level. Any running back would do well but Taylor would just be a extra boost.

Couldn't even tell, did he give Richardson a five there or leave him hanging?

 

 

AR a true leader, something that small can be so big.

[AKB]

1 hour ago, Nickster said:

A lot of vet RBs want less usage.  

i dont think hes in that stage, or anywhere near it

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

12 minutes ago, w87r said:

Colts would hardly be the first team to take money from a player getting hurt away from team working out.

 

Didn't a Broncos OLman lose big money last year.

Bills just did it to Hines.

[jvan1973]

26 minutes ago, Nickster said:

How many carries did the QB have?  Hurts had 165.  Regardless of that. . .

 

https://www.pff.com/news/fantasy-football-examining-team-running-back-usage-and-tendencies-for-2023

 

71 one percent of snaps IMo and probably pff = RBBCish

 

you lose again.  You are like the Oakland As

How many carries do you think AR will have if he starts the season.    It will be very similar to the eagles last year.  Who do you think SS would rather have JT or Sanders?

 

You say I lose again.    What did I lose?

 

You and your superiority complex is tired. 

 

"I used to hang out with so and so,  I know the ends and outs of the team"  

 

Please you have no more credibility than a tick on my dogs *.  

[Superman]

1 minute ago, GoColts8818 said:

https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-training-camp-roster-faqs-defining-injured-reserve-pup-list-nfi-and-more
 

this is where I got my info off it.  Clearly I am no CBA expert.

 

Yeah, what I'm getting at probably isn't spelled out anywhere. Short of someone getting a specific answer, we probably won't know how it works.

 

To spell it out, just for my own sanity... I'm wondering if a team can put a player on NFI after they've already put him on PUP. If the team didn't acknowledge a non-related injury at the time of his physical, I don't think they can suddenly designate him as NFI. He's clear once the physical is done. That's my thinking, and that's partly the point of the physical -- to determine the player's status before he's allowed to practice.

 

Instead, they put him on PUP. Which means he has an injury that prevents him from practicing, but it's a football related injury. Once the Colts put him on PUP, they acknowledged that he's not allowed to practice due to a football related injury.

 

So, unless JT came to the team after that physical and reported a back injury that they weren't previously aware of, I don't think NFI is still in play. And I could be totally wrong about that, but wanted to share my thinking.

 

And it's hard for me to believe that JT or his agent would be that stupid. He's on PUP, that's (probably) what he wanted, he's in the clear. He can tell the team 'I don't think I'll be ready to play until October,' and his agent can tell the GM 'I know contract negotiations would make his ankle feel better.' And that's about the strongest hand he can play. He gains nothing from making up a new injury after he's already on PUP.

[w87r]

2 minutes ago, AKB said:

i dont think hes in that stage, or anywhere near it

Nope he wants an owner/GM that builds the offense around a RB. Lol

 

 

Definitely don't seem to back less work load ideas.

[cdgacoltsfan]

26 minutes ago, ShuteAt168 said:

I think a lot of it is not knowing what version of JT we have now. All-Pro 1,800-yard JT? 800-yard hobbled JT? a still-injured JT? JT with a back injury? JT with a bad attitude? 
 

It’s confusing. 

I'm thinking about going into work tomorrow and telling them, "I know I missed half the year last year and I had two operations so I'm not sure how healthy I am right at the moment ,but you need to triple my pay and I want it guaranteed too."

[Nickster]

11 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Yup, that tracks IMO. You asked earlier how this got out of hand so quickly, and the answer is probably that this has been building for months, and is now coming to a head.

Yeah in retrospect the seemingly optimistic Irsay tweet about how healthy JT was a month ago was almost certainly pointed towards this.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

5 minutes ago, w87r said:

Couldn't even tell, did he give Richardson a five there or leave him hanging?

 

 

AR a true leader, something that small can be so big.

Looks like he gave him high five . But I mean he was right behind the running backs who were doing drills and seemed to be listening and taking in what was said.

[Superman]

4 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

I do think it’s a little bit of a good sign Taylor was engaged in practice today. At least he isn’t hiding. His interaction with Anthony was good  to see. Hopefully that means something can be salvaged.  I mean Taylor paired with Richardson takes us to another level. Any running back would do well but Taylor would just be a extra boost.

 

NCF said earlier, and I agree, and I think some players have reinforced it today: Generally speaking, the players are going to back their own in contract disputes with the team. And that's not surprising, it could be them next time. Dak just took a big stand in support of Zach Martin: "Pay the man."

 

So I don't think this is a locker room issue, and if it did get bad, it would be the players vs the front office, not the players vs the players. 

[Superman]

1 minute ago, Nickster said:

Yeah in retrospect the seemingly optimistic Irsay tweet about how healthy JT was a month ago was almost certainly pointed towards this.

 

I appreciate it, because it gives us some clarity. Between Irsay's comment (I think it was on McAfee, not a tweet, but same difference), and Ballard's presser, then JT going on PUP 30 minutes later, it makes it obvious that there was some kind of disconnect.

[Nickster]

15 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

It would be really stupid, and unnecessary, and wouldn't help at all. If JT and his side brought up a back injury, then they really don't know what they're doing.

Thanks for synopsizing the first post you responded to with this thing man lol.

 

you didn’t cite me as the source though man

[GoColts8818]

6 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Yeah, what I'm getting at probably isn't spelled out anywhere. Short of someone getting a specific answer, we probably won't know how it works.

 

To spell it out, just for my own sanity... I'm wondering if a team can put a player on NFI after they've already put him on PUP. If the team didn't acknowledge a non-related injury at the time of his physical, I don't think they can suddenly designate him as NFI. He's clear once the physical is done. That's my thinking, and that's partly the point of the physical -- to determine the player's status before he's allowed to practice.

 

Instead, they put him on PUP. Which means he has an injury that prevents him from practicing, but it's a football related injury. Once the Colts put him on PUP, they acknowledged that he's not allowed to practice due to a football related injury.

 

So, unless JT came to the team after that physical and reported a back injury that they weren't previously aware of, I don't think NFI is still in play. And I could be totally wrong about that, but wanted to share my thinking.

 

And it's hard for me to believe that JT or his agent would be that stupid. He's on PUP, that's (probably) what he wanted, he's in the clear. He can tell the team 'I don't think I'll be ready to play until October,' and his agent can tell the GM 'I know contract negotiations would make his ankle feel better.' And that's about the strongest hand he can play. He gains nothing from making up a new injury after he's already on PUP.

Without being a CBA expert I think they can or the Colts wouldn’t threaten it, Taylor wouldn’t come out so strong about not having a back injury and never reporting one, and the players union would be sending warning shots saying you can’t do that.  From what I read as long as the player doesn’t practice in camp or play in a pre-season game they can be placed on the NFI list.

[AKB]

here's my big question... if the cap goes up every year, and we have a QB on rookie deal, would it really hurt our team if we overpaid him slightly? 

 

would 16M a year really change our roster? I'm not saying he should get that this offseason, or that it's a good idea what he is doing, but it is a question i've had

[Superman]

Just now, Nickster said:

Thanks for synopsizing the first post you responded to with this thing man lol.

 

I've agreed with that all along. In fact, the very obvious (to me/us) stupidity of it is why I'm having trouble accepting that JT's side would be behind it at all. It's so clearly a bad move, they'd have to know better than to try it... right?

[DougDew]

12 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

How many carries do you think AR will have if he starts the season. 

What do you mean by "carries" as it pertains to a QB?  Designed rushes, or broken play scrambles, or something in between where the QB knows he's going to run with the ball after he drops back a bit.

 

I'm not familiar with how granular the stats are when it comes to QB rushing yards.  

[Superman]

1 minute ago, AKB said:

here's my big question... if the cap goes up every year, and we have a QB on rookie deal, would it really hurt our team if we overpaid him slightly? 

 

would 16M a year really change our roster? I'm not saying he should get that this offseason, or that it's a good idea what he is doing, but it is a question i've had

 

No, it would not. Assuming the structure is typical of NFL contracts, it wouldn't break the team.

 

But so far, the Colts haven't even made an offer. It's not like they're a couple million apart. The Colts haven't even engaged, they've asked JT to wait before even beginning negotiations, and he doesn't want to. 

[w87r]

5 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Looks like he gave him high five . But I mean he was right behind the running backs who were doing drills and seemed to be listening and taking in what was said.

Looks like we were looking at different things. Lol

 

He's been there with the RBs pretty much all camp, outside his bus trip.

[Superman]

4 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

Without being a CBA expert I think they can or the Colts wouldn’t threaten it, Taylor wouldn’t come out so strong about not having a back injury and never reporting one, and the players union would be sending warning shots saying you can’t do that.  From what I read as long as the player doesn’t practice in camp or play in a pre-season game they can be placed on the NFI list.

 

I'm still questioning whether the Colts threatened it in the first place...

 

But yeah, if they did, that would indicate it's still an option. Or maybe they discussed it a week ago, and decided against it, and there's some detail that's not being reported so far. 

[Nickster]

2 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I've agreed with that all along. In fact, the very obvious (to me/us) stupidity of it is why I'm having trouble accepting that JT's side would be behind it at all. It's so clearly a bad move, they'd have to know better than to try it... right?

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

4 minutes ago, AKB said:

here's my big question... if the cap goes up every year, and we have a QB on rookie deal, would it really hurt our team if we overpaid him slightly? 

 

would 16M a year really change our roster? I'm not saying he should get that this offseason, or that it's a good idea what he is doing, but it is a question i've had

I think this is more to do that he is coming off surgery and we have a new coach. I get their point wanting to see how he bounces back and how he fits with Steichen. 

[GoColts8818]

Just now, Superman said:

 

I'm still questioning whether the Colts threatened it in the first place...

 

But yeah, if they did, that would indicate it's still an option. Or maybe they discussed it a week ago, and decided against it, and there's some detail that's not being reported so far. 

That’s fair that’s not a known fact but I think looking at the fact it had to probably come from the Colts or Taylor and Taylor is coming out against it that tells me where it in all likely hood came from but yeah that’s hardly fact.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

2 minutes ago, w87r said:

Looks like we were looking at different things. Lol

 

He's been there with the RBs pretty much all camp, outside his bus trip.

You can see richardsons hand go up for a slap. But today there was video of him listening and right up with them doing drills.

[jvan1973]

3 minutes ago, DougDew said:

What do you mean by "carries" as it pertains to a QB?  Designed rushes, or broken play scrambles, or something in between where the QB knows he's going to run with the ball after he drops back a bit.

 

I'm not familiar with how granular the stats are when it comes to QB rushing yards.  

Hurts had a ton of designed runs.   As will AR

[w87r]

1 minute ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

You can see richardsons hand go up for a slap.

Kinda looks like right when camera pans to the right, Taylor's shoulder dips to bring hand up.

 

 

Anyway, like I said, that is true leadership by Richardson.

[DougDew]

7 minutes ago, AKB said:

here's my big question... if the cap goes up every year, and we have a QB on rookie deal, would it really hurt our team if we overpaid him slightly? 

 

would 16M a year really change our roster? I'm not saying he should get that this offseason, or that it's a good idea what he is doing, but it is a question i've had

The amounts given to players upon signing a new contract is always high relative to the present cap.  The contracts can be staggered so the amount of money being paid to positional groups can even each other out.

 

But here's the problem.  How much does a team want to pay to the guys who rush with the ball?   When the NFL is a passing league.

 

There are some on this board who believe that AR is going to run the ball a lot.  Add in the amount of runs that are needed to justify giving a RB $16M, and how does that leave the passing game.  It seems like the running talent will outpace the throwing talent by miles.  

 

That can happen this year, but I don't see Ballard/SS locking up long term contracts to RBs that will promote that kind of run/pass ratio over the next 3 to 4 seasons.

 

If AR is running a lot, and JT is running  lot, does Irsay Ballard, SS think they can win very many games with that kind of run emphasis?  

[DougDew]

5 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Hurts had a ton of designed runs.   As will AR

I get that, but are those distinguished from scrambles when it comes to QB rushing yards.   Or number of "rushes".  I don't think they are.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

 

[derek46160]

I've been a big colts fan ever since 1984 and I have seen running backs like the edge and Marshall Faulk want a good paying contract to stay with the colts and we lost them. The colts need to step up and finally sign Taylor to the contract that he wants because he is an elite running back. Don't lose another one like before. 

[Tsarquise]

7 minutes ago, derek46160 said:

I've been a big colts fan ever since 1984 and I have seen running backs like the edge and Marshall Faulk want a good paying contract to stay with the colts and we lost them. The colts need to step up and finally sign Taylor to the contract that he wants because he is an elite running back. Don't lose another one like before. 

That history shows us that it is okay to let Taylor go. 

[csmopar]

39 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I appreciate it, because it gives us some clarity. Between Irsay's comment (I think it was on McAfee, not a tweet, but same difference), and Ballard's presser, then JT going on PUP 30 minutes later, it makes it obvious that there was some kind of disconnect.

Don’t forget too that JT showed up over 30 minutes late to report time too

19 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

 

So Wth is going on

[GoColts8818]

7 minutes ago, derek46160 said:

I've been a big colts fan ever since 1984 and I have seen running backs like the edge and Marshall Faulk want a good paying contract to stay with the colts and we lost them. The colts need to step up and finally sign Taylor to the contract that he wants because he is an elite running back. Don't lose another one like before. 

1.  Welcome to the forum.

 

2.  If you’ve been a fan as long as you said you have you know that when they lost Dickerson they replaced him with Faulk.  Then when they lost Faulk they replaced him with Edge who just turned around lead the league in rushing the next two years and when they lost Edge they won the Super Bowl the next year.  So the Colts have a good track record of replacing these guys.  

[Superman]

4 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Don’t forget too that JT showed up over 30 minutes late to report time too

 

That part too, probably sitting in the parking lot on facetime with his agent the whole time.

[Myles]

14 minutes ago, derek46160 said:

I've been a big colts fan ever since 1984 and I have seen running backs like the edge and Marshall Faulk want a good paying contract to stay with the colts and we lost them. The colts need to step up and finally sign Taylor to the contract that he wants because he is an elite running back. Don't lose another one like before. 

Giving a RB a huge contract when he is coming off an injury is poor team management.  

[Peter Nova]

8 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Don’t forget too that JT showed up over 30 minutes late to report time too

So Wth is going on

Taylor  is tying Colt RBs shoelaces  together while no one is watching.

[Peter Nova]

3 minutes ago, Myles said:

Giving a RB a huge contract when he is coming off an injury is poor team management.  

There are more red flags than just that.  Potentially not fitting the offense, RB shelf life, and the Colts are in rebuild mode.

[jvan1973]

46 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I get that, but are those distinguished from scrambles when it comes to QB rushing yards.   Or number of "rushes".  I don't think they are.

Did you watch the eagles last year?  

[DougDew]

12 minutes ago, Myles said:

Giving a RB a huge contract when he is coming off an injury is poor team management.  

That's another strange thing.  Usually guys that hold out for more money come off of a season where their production was high, and that production was instrumental in the team's success.  More money justifies what they helped the team accomplish.  Its obvious they are underpaid.

 

But there is none of that with JT last year.

 

So its not even a matter of the injury.  Its also the fact that he did virtually nothing more than his backups did, and the team went 4 and 12.

 

It seems to me that he feels the need to get as money money ASAP, regardless of this past season, he sees himself as replaceable and doesn't want the rest of the NFL to figure it out.  

[cdgacoltsfan]

16 minutes ago, Peter Nova said:

Taylor  is tying Colt RBs shoelaces  together while no one is watching.

I heard JT slipped Franklin one of those $100 Irsay bills to break Moss's arm.