Did Jeff Saturday Fix The Offensive Line?

[Nickster]

4 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

I specifically said YPG... 

Did you see that. 

 

So let me ask you this..

Indy front four great?

You didn't cite ypc in your post?  Hmm it looked like you did.

[EastStreet]

45 minutes ago, will426 said:

Jt Jukes a bit stiff but he can still juke lol it’s more “big Man” like than a shifty juke he runs a bit high at times

 

He's not a APB.

He's a RB1. I don't expect APB wiggle.

I expect RB1 bell cow juke. 

Last year, he was #1 in juke rate. And horrible this year (pre-LVR). 

[Nickster]

1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

 

 

Watching a little bit, but will watch the whole thing later. One of the better break downs from Lawrence. Some were weak. 

 

Just a note... 

Mo had a great block on Crosby 1 vs 1.

And on the same play, JT had a great juke on a uncovered LB at the line and went for 6-7 yards. 

 

We've heard from some how bad Mo was at blocking, and that JT can't move laterally. Not on that play.... Great block, and great juke. 

 

Who said MAC was bad at blocking BTW?  From my recollection he grades high blocking, and he looks good at it to me when I watch him do it.

 

Has he had bad blocking grades this season?

[EastStreet]

16 minutes ago, Nickster said:

LVR's front 7 isn't any good.  Overall, they are bad.  They have a talented player or 2.

 

League average ypc sits at 4.6 right now.  The prognosticators were simply wrong about Denver.  There defense gives up next to nothing.

 

Matt Pryor on the bench is the best move that could have been made to improve the oline play.

 

 

So you agree that LVR has two talented DEs... who both twist (we haven't been able to stop twists the all year).

So the OL did well vs talented DEs, and had no problem vs twists... is that progress?

[LJpalmbeacher2]

1 hour ago, Nickster said:

Yes Jeff came in on Monday, and got to work right away.  He called the guys together and they started working on fundamentals at 11pm that evening and pulled an all nighter getting finished about 1130 Tuesday morning before the main practice.

 

It's amazing.  By Sunday, with this daily regiment, line finally knew how to block.

 

He also had a wizard's wand that he waived over the guys and incanted ancient Druidian prayers while burning incence and jamming out ragas on his sitar.  

Then Jeff took a giant can of Whoop Adz out of his back pocket and annointed the heads of the 5 linemen with it.

 

He pulled out all the stops and fixed the oLINE in FIVE DAYS.  Jeff sold his soul to the Devil to gain this magical ability, so he's going to have to eventually pay up on that deal he made at the crossroads. 

 

 

. 

Either that or LV isn't good and Matt Pryor didn't play a down of offense, and we don't know what the line will look like going forward. 

 

One or two variations, Irsays is the one who acquired the magic wand and waved it....and Irsays is the one who made the deal with the devil but because he has billions he has the resources to pay up. 

It was.costly, but irsay  made cower and Ryan and others eat their words. 

[EastStreet]

14 minutes ago, Nickster said:

Not exactly pulling but coming across  and pretty much whiffing. 

 

How many times did you see Granson lined up across the DE 1 on 1?

 

Seems like that would be some kind of mistake wouldn't it?

 

I pointed out 3 times from the vids posted previously.

 

So are you saying they weren't 1 vs 1, lining up directly against the DE...?

 

So... again... not same the thing... not close. 

Thanks.. 

[DougDew]

16 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

LMAO... 

Change the definition.. lol. 

And ignore the actual "juke" advanced stats...

 

goal line all over the place.. 

What a weird response.  Its almost like you see things from your own bubble. 

 

I've been using the word "juke" for decades, long before somebody invented stats to measure what they think a juke is, so I know exactly what I meant when I used the word weeks ago.  You still fail to understand what I meant and are using somebody else's measure to judge what I said, and now say I changed it.  Precious....and bubble-like conceited. 

 

I hope the advance stats are granular enough separate out the various "degree of jukes" to tell me how often JT has taken a stuffed middle run playcall and juked it into a successful outside run.  

[Nickster]

1 minute ago, EastStreet said:

So you agree that LVR has two talented DEs... who both twist (we haven't been able to stop twists the all year).

So the OL did well vs talented DEs, and had no problem vs twists... is that progress?

 

I have no idea how much better we are because we haven't played anyone yet, but I KNOW we are a better team when Matt Pryor has no role in the offense. 

 

Crosby is talented, but Jones is barely average right now.  The line looked better but they played a terrible team.   My suspicion is they were better because Matt Pryor had no role in the offense. 

 

We will see these next few weeks if we are better or not.

[EastStreet]

13 minutes ago, Nickster said:

Indy's Front isn't ready for a nickname, but they have been really solid as would be expected with all the investment in them, even though they don't have a star pass rusher.   They have one bad player on the line, but other than that, they are really solid.

 

Which one is the bad player?

 

BTW... you implied Jax was good...

 

Indy has 25 sacks. Jax has 16... (ranked #27)... 

So if Indy isn't ready for a nickname, but call out Jax as good?

[Nickster]

4 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

I pointed out 3 times from the vids posted previously.

 

So are you saying they weren't 1 vs 1, lining up directly against the DE...?

 

So... again... not same the thing... not close. 

Thanks.. 

 

No I'm saying it would be weird if the plan was "Kyle go take Joey Bosa one on one this play."

Just now, EastStreet said:

 

Which one is the bad player?

 

BTW... you implied Jax was good...

 

Indy has 25 sacks. Jax has 16... (ranked #27)... 

So if Indy isn't ready for a nickname, but call out Jax as good?

Yannick is bad.  They have a pretty good front yes.

[EastStreet]

15 minutes ago, Nickster said:

You didn't cite ypc in your post?  Hmm it looked like you did.

Sorry. I listed YPC stats... your point.. ?

[Nickster]

5 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Sorry. I listed YPC stats... your point.. ?

 

With that post was to respond to you saying I was talking not ypg but ypc lol. 

 

 

"I specifically said YPG... 

Did you see that. "

[BlueShoe]

28 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

Didn't see it... 

 

Tell me. Is it on passing down, with Granson 1 vs 1 on the DE (face to face lining up across the DE) - which is what we are talking about?

 

Or is it pulling on a passing down, chip, or simply on run play...?

 

If it was Granson lining across the DE and 1 on 1, I'd say that's horrible. 

 

inviting @BlueShoe

 

 

I am just guessing on what play is being discussed.

 

Maybe this one?

 

 

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, OffensivelyPC said:

I asked a question that you didn't answer.  You realize that right?  Never said that the line is "fixed."  But I think it's incredulous that you facepalm because Jeff held them accountable and then they played better.  It's not that they played better because they were held accountable.  But they played better under Saturday.  So I ask again, DO YOU KNOW WHY?

Why does the credit go to Saturday the week after the Colts gave up 9 sacks against New England and Saturday gets no blame there?   He’s been working with the O-line for weeks. 
 

It’s all so ridiculously one-sided.   

 

No one knows what Saturday did or didn’t do.   No one knows what Strausser or Mawai did or didn’t do.   But there’s a rush to give all the credit to JS and none to everyone else.   
 

The line has been been changed most every week this season.   Heck, the Colts made three changes on a short week Thursday night game.   What accountable move wasn’t taken?   Everyone is doing the best they can under difficult circumstances. 

[Nickster]

5 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Sorry. I listed YPC stats... your point.. ?

Hey seriously East has Mac Been grading low in blocking?  I ddid't know that.  In past years I'm pretty sure he graded high didn't he?

[Zoltan]

1 hour ago, AustinnKaine said:

Even though the raiders don't have stats they still have a couple guys on the edge. 

 

Maxx Crosby and Chandler Jones are not scrubs. 

 

Raimann came close to getting beat by Chandler a lot of times, Ryan quick release saved some sacks. 

While they have names they aren't producing. The Raiders are last in the league for sacks with only 10, and 29th on QB pressure per play.

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2022/opp.htm

[EastStreet]

1 minute ago, Nickster said:

 

No I'm saying it would be weird if the plan was "Kyle go take Joey Bosa one on one this play."

 

Your attempt was to say "same thing"... 

But yes, it was a horrible call. Not weird, more atrocious. 

 

1 minute ago, Nickster said:

Yannick is bad.  They have a pretty good front yes.

 

Defo has 19 pressures, and 5.5 sacks, on 495 snaps. 

Yannick has 16 and 5, on 459 snaps. 

Paye has 10 and 4, on 285. 

 

Very similar if you look pressures/snaps... 

 

So is Yannick really bad, when going vs the best opposition OL (LT)?

 

 

 

 

[EastStreet]

8 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

With that post was to respond to you saying I was talking not ypg but ypc lol. 

 

 

"I specifically said YPG... 

Did you see that. "

 

I listed YPC stats. You knew what I was talking about. 

But OK... point is still the same...

And you said the average is 4.6... so that means LVR is above average lol.. 

 

"LVR allows 4.5 (not good). Worse though, Houston 5.2, Denver 4.7, NE 4.7.. And also similarly bad. KC 4.5. WA 4.4.... And JT got his only 2nd game over 100 yards this year. "

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

He is right. There was a story Keefer told on his podcast about players messing up a play in practice. Usually assistants would take the player aside and work with them individual. Saturday stopped made the hold team re do the play.

One play doesn’t fix an ongoing problem.  
 

One play. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

2 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

One play doesn’t fix an ongoing problem.  
 

One play. 

You are totally missing what accountability means.  He was just giving one example doesn’t mean there wasn’t more.

[EastStreet]

23 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

Who said MAC was bad at blocking BTW?  From my recollection he grades high blocking, and he looks good at it to me when I watch him do it.

 

Has he had bad blocking grades this season?

 

He does normally grade well. He had some weak attempts/snaps, but a few trashed him, and overhyped it. 

He has been stuck blocking most the year. Only a game or two he had actual focused targets. 

[DougDew]

9 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Why does the credit go to Saturday the week after the Colts gave up 9 sacks against New England and Saturday gets no blame there?   He’s been working with the O-line for weeks. 
 

It’s all so ridiculously one-sided.   

 

No one knows what Saturday did or didn’t do.   No one knows what Strausser or Mawai did or didn’t do.   But there’s a rush to give all the credit to JS and none to everyone else.   
 

The line has been been changed most every week this season.   Heck, the Colts made three changes on a short week Thursday night game.   What accountable move wasn’t taken?   Everyone is doing the best they can under difficult circumstances. 

I think this is the first iteration where Raimann and Fries were the starters and pretty much left there the entire game.  Maybe except a few plays.

 

And, its not like it was some miracle line up that "should have been known".  It takes weeks to work through the various iterations when there is no clear cut high performer in the bunch.

[EastStreet]

19 minutes ago, DougDew said:

What a weird response.  Its almost like you see things from your own bubble. 

 

I've been using the word "juke" for decades, long before somebody invented stats to measure what they think a juke is, so I know exactly what I meant when I used the word weeks ago.  You still fail to understand what I meant and are using somebody else's measure to judge what I said, and now say I changed it.  Precious....and bubble-like conceited. 

 

I hope the advance stats are granular enough separate out the various "degree of jukes" to tell me how often JT has taken a stuffed middle run playcall and juked it into a successful outside run.  

 

Hey, feel free to continue using your own personal dictionary lol.. and ignore standard/advanced stat definitions that are acceptable in the realm. 

[NewColtsFan]

26 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

Your attempt was to say "same thing"... 

But yes, it was a horrible call. Not weird, more atrocious. 

 

 

Defo has 19 pressures, and 5.5 sacks, on 495 snaps. 

Yannick has 16 and 5, on 459 snaps. 

Paye has 10 and 4, on 285. 

 

Very similar if you look pressures/snaps... 

 

So is Yannick really bad, when going vs the best opposition OL (LT)?

 

 

 

 

Fair question, but for me Yannick is really bad given that he’s a one-trick pony.   He was brought in for pass rush.   He’s not just a non-factor in the run game, he’s a hugely negative factor.   He’s a big liability when teams run while he’s in. 
 

Buckner and Paye are very good in the run game, so they’re both far more well rounded as D-lineman.   I don’t think Yannick gets brought back next year unless he finds a soft FA market and agrees to a pay cut. 

[Solid84]

15 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

Your attempt was to say "same thing"... 

But yes, it was a horrible call. Not weird, more atrocious. 

 

 

Defo has 19 pressures, and 5.5 sacks, on 495 snaps. 

Yannick has 16 and 5, on 459 snaps. 

Paye has 10 and 4, on 285. 

 

Very similar if you look pressures/snaps... 

 

So is Yannick really bad, when going vs the best opposition OL (LT)?

 

 

 

 

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect more from our passrush specialist than our DT. Especially when you consider how little Ngakoue adds to run defense. 
 

I’ll be honest and say I’m a little disappointed in Ngakoue. 

[OffensivelyPC]

16 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Why does the credit go to Saturday the week after the Colts gave up 9 sacks against New England and Saturday gets no blame there?   He’s been working with the O-line for weeks. 
 

It’s all so ridiculously one-sided.   

 

No one knows what Saturday did or didn’t do.   No one knows what Strausser or Mawai did or didn’t do.   But there’s a rush to give all the credit to JS and none to everyone else.   
 

The line has been been changed most every week this season.   Heck, the Colts made three changes on a short week Thursday night game.   What accountable move wasn’t taken?   Everyone is doing the best they can under difficult circumstances. 

So like everyone else.  No idea.  Like I said.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

9 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

You are totally missing what accountability means.  He was just giving one example doesn’t mean there wasn’t more.

By the way Keefer heard this over and over from players about how Saturday was holding them more accountable.

[OffensivelyPC]

1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

 

Frank or Brady, either way, horrible. It was multiple games. So if Brady did it, Frank failed to address. 

 

Will be interesting to see vs Philly. Philly is obviously a lot better DL, and general D.

If we look good again, can't wait to read/hear the discussion. 

Yeah, I'm curious myself.  we could go back to implosion.  I don't think so, but one game does not a team make.  We'll see.  I hope we do at least dominate across the line if nothing else.  I dunno.

[OffensivelyPC]

1 hour ago, Nickster said:

I know 2 reasons:

 

1.  Matt Pryor not participating.  (If that was Jeff's call, great work there.)

2.  LVs' front is not good at all.  

 

Are we really any better on the Oline?  In about 1 month, you will have a good idea.  

Yeah they aren't good in general.  But they do got some of the better DE's so it's not like we were playing against 4 chumps at LVR.  But yeah, don't know if we're better, I hope so.  Need to see it over a string of games for sure.

[EastStreet]

27 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

I have no idea how much better we are because we haven't played anyone yet, but I KNOW we are a better team when Matt Pryor has no role in the offense. 

 

Crosby is talented, but Jones is barely average right now.  The line looked better but they played a terrible team.   My suspicion is they were better because Matt Pryor had no role in the offense. 

 

We will see these next few weeks if we are better or not.

 

On the bolded above, I've said the exact thing. 

 

But your posts are totally assumptive and negative. 

 

And even on the topic of "accountability", you're negative... Yet we heard Jeff rant about accountability several times in one week. Heck, just the NFL Live show had a segment on Saturday, talking about accountability for 5 minutes. And many have commented that practices are different (stopped plays, and getting fired up about bad play). 

 

I have no idea what to expect on Sunday. Might be bad. Might be good. We'll see. 

But I'm not automatically assuming horrible OL play like you. 

[EastStreet]

29 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

 

I am just guessing on what play is being discussed.

 

Maybe this one?

 

 

 

I'd have to default to @Nickster to answer

[OffensivelyPC]

30 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Why does the credit go to Saturday the week after the Colts gave up 9 sacks against New England and Saturday gets no blame there?   He’s been working with the O-line for weeks. 
 

It’s all so ridiculously one-sided.   

 

No one knows what Saturday did or didn’t do.   No one knows what Strausser or Mawai did or didn’t do.   But there’s a rush to give all the credit to JS and none to everyone else.   
 

The line has been been changed most every week this season.   Heck, the Colts made three changes on a short week Thursday night game.   What accountable move wasn’t taken?   Everyone is doing the best they can under difficult circumstances. 

And another thing.  I think it's kinda ridiculous to think just because someone thinks we've been better under Saturday that we're discrediting everyone else.  I've been saying forever that it makes no sense why Nelson, Smith and Kelly were - from last year to this year - all of the sudden terrible.  I still feel that way.  So Saturday coming in and them performing like we always have known they could is kind of insanity to work through the mind.  It makes no sense at all.

 

I'm not so much dismissing the line as a whole, but those three guys who've been constant starters week in and week out, those guys performing terribly is baffling.  And I don't think you or I could explain why with any words we could speak in the English language that makes sense.  I'm not giving Saturday all the credit.  Those 3 guys blocked their * off Sunday - and yes against a generally weak defensive line.  But you're acting like Maxx Crosby and Chandler Jones are amongst the worst DEs in the league.  They're not. 

 

So don't be so disingenuous.  You've got a problem with the rush to give JS credit?  You're rushing to say that because LVR is bad, the Colts OL don't deserve credit.  And the only thing we can point to is JS being the difference

[EastStreet]

14 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Faur question, but for me Yannick is really bad given that he’s a one-trick pony.   He was brought in for pass rush.   He’s not just a non-factor in the run game, he’s a hugely negative factor.   He’s a big liability when teams run while he’s in. 
 

Buckner and Paye are very good in the run game, so they’re both far more well rounded as D-lineman.   I don’t think Yannick gets brought back next year unless he finds a soft FA market and agrees to a pay cut. 

Since before the season, I've said he sucks vs the run.

And I expected his snaps would be limited to passing snaps. More 60% ish, but we've seen 70% ish. 

[EastStreet]

14 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect more from our passrush specialist than our DT. Especially when you consider how little Ngakoue adds to run defense. 
 

I’ll be honest and say I’m a little disappointed in Ngakoue. 

 

I agree to an extent. I expected 9-11 sacks, and bad run D.... So he's near that... Not far from what I expected. 

[NewColtsFan]

13 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

So like everyone else.  No idea.  Like I said.

Interesting….  Now you’re saying nobody knows.   But you were certainly willing to challenge me when the the poster I face palmed to asserted that Saturday held them accountable which had never been done before.   And THAT you were perfectly fine with.   So you think that poster knows and you agree with him.   Hey, that’s your right, but it’s mighty convenient when you choose to use it and not.  

[DougDew]

1 minute ago, EastStreet said:

 

Hey, feel free to continue using your own personal dictionary lol.. and ignore standard/advanced stat definitions that are acceptable in the realm. 

Its a matter of choice to even use stat definitions as a means to understand football.  Sorry for you if that's the only way you can discuss the game.  I suggest that you stop using those definitions.

 

This is the way most humans understand it...and if a person has played RB or WR in football, a person would know this to be common sense:

 

Juke.  Go around another human body quickly.  The quicker the runner can go sideways, the better the juker.  If the other human body (defender) is careening through the hole forward, its a lot easier to side step the careening human body without much juke at all. Some juke, not much...never even having to leave the hole.  OTOH, if the other human body is waiting in space, legs spread and weight distributed to make a lateral move in open space depending upon where RB will go, its much harder to juke that defender.  Lots more juke needed.  

 

If the data does not separate out the situations that require little juke from the situations that require a lot of juke, then the realm that uses the juke stats to compare RBs juking ability is BLIND as a bat.

[EastStreet]

15 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

Yeah, I'm curious myself.  we could go back to implosion.  I don't think so, but one game does not a team make.  We'll see.  I hope we do at least dominate across the line if nothing else.  I dunno.

 

At least, things are interesting again lol...

 

I wouldn't be shocked if we got smashed by 14+, or a close Indy win. 

 

I dunno either... 

 

[EastStreet]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

Its a matter of choice to even use stat definitions as a means to understand football.  Sorry for you if that's the only way you can discuss the game.  I suggest that you stop using those definitions.

 

This is the way most humans understand it...and if a person has played RB or WR in football, a person would know this to be common sense:

 

Juke.  Go around another human body quickly.  The quicker the runner can go sideways, the better the juker.  If the other human body (defender) is careening through the hole forward, its a lot easier to side step the careening human body without much juke at all. Some juke, not much...never even having to leave the hole.  OTOH, if the other human body is waiting in space, legs spread and weight distributed to make a lateral move in open space depending upon where RB will go, its much harder to juke that defender.  Lots more juke needed.  

 

If the data does not separate out the situations that require little juke from the situations that require a lot of juke, then the realm that uses the juke stats to compare RBs juking ability is BLIND as a bat.

[throwing BBZ]

2 hours ago, AustinnKaine said:

hes definitely a notch above Matt Pryor, just glad Pryor isn't starting anymore. But yeah I really want Fries to be a success story. He's wearing Jack Mewhorts old number

 

Big factors

Fries over Pryor

New play caller

steady 50/50 run pass keeping PR honest 

Simplified blocking scheme

Quick passes with multiple hot read targets 

 Reminded me a lot how Washington beat the Eagles. 

 I expect the same game plan with a couple deep shots thrown in.

 

 

 

 

 

[OffensivelyPC]

1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

Interesting….  Now you’re saying nobody knows.   But you were certainly willing to challenge me when the the poster I face palmed to asserted that Saturday held them accountable which had never been done before.   And THAT you were perfectly fine with.   So you think that poster knows and you agree with him.   Hey, that’s your right, but it’s mighty convenient when you choose to use it and not.  

Well seems as though you did admit as much. So I don't see why this is an interesting point of conversation.  I've asked you twice and asserted that we don't know  (which I've been saying for more than a few weeks now) and you hadn't really answered other than circumstantially insinuating the OL has had changes, we shouldn't rush to give Jeff Saturday credit and the LVR DL is bad.  Not really an answer either.  If I've misinterpreted anything you've said, let me know.  I never meant to attack the assertion that JS was the ONLY reason.  But I also think you're not being honest with what's going on.  Is it so hard to believe that Saturday hasn't been part of the difference?  Or maybe Reich "lost the locker room" and they lacked effort.  Hell if I know.  But something's different.  And we'll see if it last for more than one game vs the Raiders.  But for once this season, there's at least a legitimate modicum of hope, and Saturday thus far is the only reason anyone can really identify as the reason.