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Week 4 Games

RollerColt

By RollerColt
in NFL General

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RollerColt

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21 minutes ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

He should never have played tonight and dolphins lies about a concussion.

I agree. I still fear what damage he's collected tonight... Back to back games with brain injuries is very bad... 

 

Bengals offense having a lot of trouble against this Dolphins defense.

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VikingsFanInChennai

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19 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

I agree. I still fear what damage he's collected tonight... Back to back games with brain injuries is very bad... 

 

Bengals offense having a lot of trouble against this Dolphins defense.

Back to back brain injury??? 

 

He was evaluated by an independent medical professional and cleared of any concussion. It was not a brain injury. 

 

He got sacked, he fell on his back and his head also hit the turf but his back got all the brunt of the force first and his head only got a slight ricochet. He got up, he slipped after his ankle got twisted while walking back to the bench. People only speculated that it was because of possible concussion, but he did get immediately evaluated before entering the game again. 

 

He was listed as back/ankle injury. He also explained in press conference exactly what he felt, as I have written above what he said. 

 

None of that seems like a brain injury. There's no evidence that anyone lied. 

 

Players take their health seriously too. No one wants to risk their life to play an ordinary week 4 game when they are already leading the whole league 3-0, they could afford to sit him out if he had really got any serious injury or concussion to his head that would have hurt his brain the week prior. 

 

This game injury is a different story, hope he's going to be OK soon. 

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RollerColt

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8 minutes ago, VikingsFanInChennai said:

Back to back brain injury??? 

 

He was evaluated by an independent medical professional and cleared of any concussion. It was not a brain injury. 

 

He got sacked, he fell on his back and his head also hit the turf but his back got all the brunt of the force first and his head only got a slight ricochet. He got up, he slipped after his ankle got twisted while walking back to the bench. People only speculated that it was because of possible concussion, but he did get immediately evaluated before entering the game again. 

 

He was listed as back/ankle injury. He also explained in press conference exactly what he felt, as I have written above what he said. 

 

None of that seems like a brain injury. There's no evidence that anyone lied. 

 

Players take their health seriously too. No one wants to risk their life to play an ordinary week 4 game when they are already leading the whole league 3-0, they could afford to sit him out if he had really got any serious injury or concussion to his head that would have hurt his brain the week prior. 

 

This game injury is a different story, hope he's going to be OK soon. 

Fair enough. I rescind my statement, as I don't follow the Dolphins and honestly did not see the news about him being cleared. I've been worried sick about my family in the hurricane so that's had a lot of my attention this week. 

 

Football related: Chase with dagger. 

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our_dbs_rock

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3 hours ago, jonjon said:

Didn't see the game. So glad, after I saw some highlights and those hideous outfits. Dear God please stop the "color rush" crap, which was clearly invented by color blind people. amen

 

You say that and it is funny, but just a few years ago they had color rush jerseys that color blind people couldn't differentiate.

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/look-bills-jets-game-is-complete-torture-for-color-blind-people/

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VikingsFanInChennai

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5 hours ago, RollerColt said:

Fair enough. I rescind my statement, as I don't follow the Dolphins and honestly did not see the news about him being cleared. I've been worried sick about my family in the hurricane so that's had a lot of my attention this week. 

 

Football related: Chase with dagger. 

Hope you and your family are safe. 

 

Actually you have a point, there's some saying in NFLPA circles that concussion protocols followed in the game could be passed some times, and the player might continue to play and not be aware that he has some problem going on in his brain. They seem to be starting an investigation on how it was cleared for Tua earlier and if it was done right. 

 

My opinion is, the concussion protocol should be able to identify such problems and make sure the player is assessed properly before entering the game. As long as it is done medically right, it is fine. If there could be holes in the protocol, they need to make it better. 

 

But there are lot of gray areas here. Is it even medically possible to give a definite answer that quickly when the game is going on, without visiting a hospital and just doing the procedure in the blue medical tent on an NFL field? 

 

What if they make stringent protocol, and a good number of players get disqualified during the game? 

 

What if Colts are playing the last regular season game that they need to win to qualify for playoffs, and Pittman and Ryan get removed from the game in the very first 5 minutes, and colts need to continue the game with backups?! What if such things surely would happen in playoffs? How would that team and fans feel about that? Some fans would then say that the league is using protocol as a reason to favor some teams to win Super Bowl. 

 

I guess there's no good way to find a perfect solution when a player gets an injury or slight wobble for few seconds after a hit, which looks like a head injury to some and doesn't look so for the protocols that are in place. 

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csmopar

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Just now, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

For one reason their is no way he didn’t have a concussion after last weeks game. That was a lie about his back locking up. Second there was no way to clear concussion protocol in a short week.

Ahhh I was unaware of that. Yikes. 

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sb41champs

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Praying for Tua's short-term and long-term health considering the gravity of the concussion he suffered. 

 

It makes me shutter to remember former Colts TE Ben Utecht when he had a catastrophic concussion while playing for the Bengals.  Ben is STILL dealing with memory loss more than a decade later.

 

God bless them both!!

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VikingsFanInChennai

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This is what Dolphins head coach had to say about accusations of them lying about Tua's last week injury. 

Quote

 

"I'm in steady communication with this guy, day in, day out. We're talking about high-level football conversations, about progressions and defenses and recalling stuff from two weeks previous and him having to reiterate a 15-word play call. There was no medical indication from all resources there was anything regarding the head.

 

Quote

"If there would have been anything lingering with his head, I wouldn't have been able to live with myself if I prematurely put someone out there and put them in harm's way."

 

 

 

I guess the previous week's injury or non-injury is overblown here and everywhere else. 

 

So, if we assume that they had lied, what's the benefit for them? 

 

Are they going to risk their newly found franchise QB's health and life for winning another game while they're leading the league 3-0? (now 3-1). Does it even make any sense? Are they going to clinch top seed and home field advantage by forcing him to play this game? 

 

So, is the assumption that Tua suffered concussion the previous week and when he got hit again, he got even severe concussion? If that's the case, he wouldn't be releasing his statement otherwise and tweeting that! 

 

Fans overreact all the time. 

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Restinpeacesweetchloe

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1 hour ago, VikingsFanInChennai said:

This is what Dolphins head coach had to say about accusations of them lying about Tua's last week injury. 

 

 

 

I guess the previous week's injury or non-injury is overblown here and everywhere else. 

 

So, if we assume that they had lied, what's the benefit for them? 

 

Are they going to risk their newly found franchise QB's health and life for winning another game while they're leading the league 3-0? (now 3-1). Does it even make any sense? Are they going to clinch top seed and home field advantage by forcing him to play this game? 

 

So, is the assumption that Tua suffered concussion the previous week and when he got hit again, he got even severe concussion? If that's the case, he wouldn't be releasing his statement otherwise and tweeting that! 

 

Fans overreact all the time. 

When you get up stumbling like he was I don’t care what the experts say human decency says don’t let him back him. He clearly lied about his back locking up.

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2 hours ago, VikingsFanInChennai said:

This is what Dolphins head coach had to say about accusations of them lying about Tua's last week injury. 

 

 

 

I guess the previous week's injury or non-injury is overblown here and everywhere else. 

 

So, if we assume that they had lied, what's the benefit for them? 

 

Are they going to risk their newly found franchise QB's health and life for winning another game while they're leading the league 3-0? (now 3-1). Does it even make any sense? Are they going to clinch top seed and home field advantage by forcing him to play this game? 

 

So, is the assumption that Tua suffered concussion the previous week and when he got hit again, he got even severe concussion? If that's the case, he wouldn't be releasing his statement otherwise and tweeting that! 

 

Fans overreact all the time. 


The only person over reacting here….   Is you.    You’ve accepted everything the player, the team and the doctors have said.    That type of thinking is EXACTLY why the NFL has a HUGE concussion problem. 
 

The story has now been UPDATED.   The NFLPA has now exercised its right and FIRED the independent doctor who ruled Tua did not suffer a concussion in last Sundays game vs Buffalo.   All the players association will say is they interviewed the doctor yesterday (Friday) and found the doctor skipped several steps.  
 

The handling of Tua these last two games is a disaster for the NFL, for Miami, for McDaniels, and especially for Tua whose long term health may now be at risk.   This is the last type of news the league wants or needs.   
 

The protocols were designed specifically to avoid a situation like this from happening.   And yet it did when it was obvious something was terribly wrong with Tua and with a system that allowed him back in the field three plays later.   The protocols were designed to take the decision out of the hands of team officials, team doctors AND the players themselves who might want to play in a big important game.   That was the whole point of hiring an independent doctor.    So that incidents like this would NEVER,  EVER happen again.  And yet it did.  

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VikingsFanInChennai

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3 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:


The only person over reacting here….   Is you.    You’ve accepted everything the player, the team and the doctors have said.    That type of thinking is EXACTLY why the NFL has a HUGE concussion problem. 
 

The story has now been UPDATED.   The NFLPA has now exercised its right and FIRED the independent doctor who ruled Tua did not suffer a concussion in last Sundays game vs Buffalo.   All the players association will say is they interviewed the doctor yesterday (Friday) and found the doctor skipped several steps.  
 

The handling of Tua these last two games is a disaster for the NFL, for Miami, for McDaniels, and especially for Tua whose long term health may now be at risk.   This is the last type of news the league wants or needs.   
 

The protocols were designed specifically to avoid a situation like this from happening.   And yet it did when it was obvious something was terribly wrong with Tua and with a system that allowed him back in the field three plays later.   The protocols were designed to take the decision out of the hands of team officials, team doctors AND the players themselves who might want to play in a big important game.   That was the whole point of hiring an independent doctor.    So that incidents like this would NEVER,  EVER happen again.  And yet it did.  

 

Investigation is going on. 

 

None of the details of the investigation is made public. 

 

That independent doctor was signed under NFL/NFLPA agreement, and they could terminate his contract while the incident is being investigated. 

 

Giving judgement for a case when the investigation is going on, without any actual information about it is... called overreaction. 

 

Let's wait and get to know what exactly happened. I'll be with you if there were any malpractice, but NFLPA hasn't released any such evidence yet. 

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33 minutes ago, VikingsFanInChennai said:

 

Investigation is going on. 

 

None of the details of the investigation is made public. 

 

That independent doctor was signed under NFL/NFLPA agreement, and they could terminate his contract while the incident is being investigated. 

 

Giving judgement for a case when the investigation is going on, without any actual information about it is... called overreaction. 

 

Let's wait and get to know what exactly happened. I'll be with you if there were any malpractice, but NFLPA hasn't released any such evidence yet. 


The NFLPA has already said they fired the doctor because he skipped steps.  That’s the broad generic evidence that led to an obvious botched diagnosis.   That’s why we’re all here today.  

 

And as more info comes out, this is going to look worse for all involved.   This should never have happened. 
 

 

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VikingsFanInChennai

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16 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:


The NFLPA has already said they fired the doctor because he skipped steps.  That’s the broad generic evidence that led to an obvious botched diagnosis.   That’s why we’re all here today.  

 

And as more info comes out, this is going to look worse for all involved.   This should never have happened. 
 

 

 

NFLPA is players' union, which is good thing it exists to investigate such accusations. But, saying a broad statement as such is not evidence. We have been here since last week when people started jumping over this topic even before any evidence was given just based on what everyone feels about that video, that's where we're now as well. I hope NFLPA gives transparent information about any evidence available, and we all can understand what transpired. 

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Restinpeacesweetchloe

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11 hours ago, VikingsFanInChennai said:

 

NFLPA is players' union, which is good thing it exists to investigate such accusations. But, saying a broad statement as such is not evidence. We have been here since last week when people started jumping over this topic even before any evidence was given just based on what everyone feels about that video, that's where we're now as well. I hope NFLPA gives transparent information about any evidence available, and we all can understand what transpired. 

Just the visit evidence is enough. The rule is going to be changed here soon that if your stumbling you can’t go back in. The problem is why does that have to be a rule. Doctors should be smart enough to not let someone back in after stumbling like that after getting hit in the head.

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14 hours ago, VikingsFanInChennai said:

 

NFLPA is players' union, which is good thing it exists to investigate such accusations. But, saying a broad statement as such is not evidence. We have been here since last week when people started jumping over this topic even before any evidence was given just based on what everyone feels about that video, that's where we're now as well. I hope NFLPA gives transparent information about any evidence available, and we all can understand what transpired. 


The reason everyone reacted to the video is that there was a flood of reaction from both current and former players, even NFL coaches (John Harbaugh) who were horrified nothing was done.   
 

Today, the NFL and NFLPA have already agreed to new clearer protocols so thus doesn’t happen again.   Yes, it happened that fast.   And the NFLPA has revealed the independent doctor (A) didn’t fully understand what he was supposed to do and that’s why he skipped steps.   That’s why he’s been fired. 
 

Yes, I understand who and what the NFLPA is.   I’m retired media.  Covered the NFL here in Los Angeles for 30 years.   
 

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VikingsFanInChennai

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1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:


The reason everyone reacted to the video is that there was a flood of reaction from both current and former players, even NFL coaches (John Harbaugh) who were horrified nothing was done.   
 

Today, the NFL and NFLPA have already agreed to new clearer protocols so thus doesn’t happen again.   Yes, it happened that fast.   And the NFLPA has revealed the independent doctor (A) didn’t fully understand what he was supposed to do and that’s why he skipped steps.   That’s why he’s been fired. 
 

Yes, I understand who and what the NFLPA is.   I’m retired media.  Covered the NFL here in Los Angeles for 30 years.   
 

 

 

If Doctor made a mistake, protocol rules will not have to be changed. 

 

The exact problem is around how "motor instability" part of concussion protocol was handled and tested so far before letting a consulted player back into the game, and NFL & NFLPA now feels that the rules have to be changed in a way that independent evaluators during the game correctly find out if that player needs to be sent into concussion protocol straight away. 

 

None of that means it could've been handled differently, but it could be done better in future. 

 

It's also true that there's no medical evidence given so far officially by the league that Tua's hit on week 3 caused any injury to his head or brain. If the investigation is still going on, we'll need to wait for the full information. 

 

***

 

Did John Harbaugh say Tua should be sent to concussion protocol BEFORE the Thursday night game. Anyone could say it AFTER with the benefit of Hindsight. 

 

***

 

I raised this question in another thread few days ago. 

 

Let's say on week 16 game, Colts have to win the game to qualify for playoffs. Jonathan Taylor gets hit, and stumbles a bit after getting up whether it was due to concussion or he just stumbled by mistake or by twisting something as Tua said he did during week 3 game. Going by the new rule, Taylor would be taken off the game immediately and Colts lose it. After the game, Taylor says he feels alright and he has no concussion symptoms as Tua said after week 3. Taylor also clears concussion protocol in few days. Fans then would feel as if they were let down by the league. 

 

What if it happens in Super Bowl and a couple of high profile players are taken off the field, the team loses, and these players later say that they didn't have any symptoms for weeks, and they should've been let to continue playing?

 

 

When you make a rule change, you've got to think of all the scenarios that could arise and how it would be handled going forward. 

* * * 

 

I understand players' health need to be taken seriously, but football is also a violent game, so how best could the league handle such incidents correctly? 

 

Probably by making use of proper medical science in correctly diagnosing concussion in such scenarios IMO, not just by video evidence of whether a player stumbled or felt dizzy for few seconds after the hit. But what if the concussion diagnosis is so difficult to point out during the game by just checking few motor stability and other conditions without visiting a hospital? There are lot of gray areas here and in the medical science of concussion. 

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NFLfan

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The Eagles are 4-0. They were down 14-0 but rallied to win 29-21 over the Jaguars. 

 

The Giants are 3-1 after beating the Bears.

 

Zach Wilson was back for the Jets and beat the Steelers by 4. I'm glad for the kid. He was pumped up. 

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VikingsFanInChennai

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34 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

The Eagles are 4-0. They were down 14-0 but rallied to win 29-21 over the Jaguars. 

 

The Giants are 3-1 after beating the Bears.

 

Zach Wilson was back for the Jets and beat the Steelers by 4. I'm glad for the kid. He was pumped up. 

I thought Pittsburgh will make it tough for him at least as it's first game back from the injury. Pittsburgh defense isn't the same without TJ Watt. 

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22 minutes ago, VikingsFanInChennai said:

I thought Pittsburgh will make it tough for him at least as it's first game back from the injury. Pittsburgh defense isn't the same without TJ Watt. 

 

Watt made a difference. The Steelers D has not been the same since Watt's injury. 

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