Tyquan Lewis done for the season

[chad72]

31 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

 

Personally, I'm ready to move on from the Fluse D.  I know the advantages, but it rarely works against the better teams.

 

And, I've said it before, but are all of those guys just JAGs?  Or is our D line coach (and the scheme itself) the reason we can't seem to put pressure on the QB?  We have one great player on the interior who's presence alone should make those edge rushers' jobs easier.  It doesn't seem to work that way.

 

What is there to the scheme that can't put pressure on the QB? Beat your man while rushing four and get the pressure on the QB. Freeney and Mathis did it the same way, they didn't have to scheme anything for them, they just beat their man. Despite several chances over the years, Turay, Lewis and Banogu haven't gotten enough of the job done, that is the way I see it. It is not a complicated Blitzburgh scheme we run.  

 

Justin Houston that we had did a better job, I felt. 

[Smonroe]

1 minute ago, chad72 said:

 

What is there to the scheme that can't put pressure on the QB? Beat your man while rushing four and get the pressure on the QB. Freeney and Mathis did it the same way, they didn't have to scheme anything for them, they just beat their man. Despite several chances over the years, Turay, Lewis and Banogu haven't gotten enough of the job done, that is the way I see it. It is not a complicated Blitzburgh scheme we run.  

 

And maybe that's the problem?  Our D scheme is very simple, and the O coordinators know it.  How many times have we faced O lines full of backups because of injuries, expecting to feast?  Yet nothing happens.

 

Let's face it, we don't have a Freeney or Mathis so we have to rely on coaching to play to guys strengths.  You can't always count on a guy to out athlete the opposite.  Especially when they have five and we have four.  

 

When we blitz and put pressure on the QB, most of the time it works out.  When we rush 4 and play that soft zone on 3rd and long, we give any decent QB time to scan the field and for them to send a crosser to the empty middle of the field.  I've seen it so many times it's predictable and sickening.

 

I won't profess to know more than any coach in the league.  But I do know the definition of insanity.  Apparently our D coach doesn't.

[John Waylon]

3 minutes ago, krunk said:

Bashem had a good season for the Jets last year. I dont know whats up with Quincy but i think hes still with the Jets. Anyway lets not act like you couldnt add Banogu in as a part of a trade package. People do take chances on young players. Especially ones who they may have had high grades on coming out of college. Whoever the other player is you would put with Ben would have to have more value of course.

I still think they should look at switching ben over to LB but oh well.

Honestly I don’t think Banogu would get the same benefit of the doubt that Wilson and Basham got. Those two guys were guys who both saw the field and Wilson even started for us IIRC. 
 

Banogu damn near has to buy a ticket to see a game. 
 

We’re seeing a lot of feast or famine from our draft picks. Especially those top 4 rounds where you need to hit. I mean Ballard has a nice collection of top 4 round draft picks that are just worthless. If he’s offering a 2nd round player that he can’t get anything out of after 3 years… 

 

Part of a package is the only way he moves. 
 

We just missed on that one. Or something. Who knows. I want to (and not because I like him as a player, I go out of my way to ignore college football, so I have no dog in this fight other than the 2nd rounder that brought him here,) and hopefully some day we do find out the truth, but we definitely missed on that one. Missed wide, too. 

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, ClaytonColt said:

Forgetting the injury should 8 sacks in 4 years stop, or at least pause, our interest? 

 

Surely there must be better out there?

You’re trying to build a case against.   Lewis has been a serious contributor for a year and a half.   If this isn’t obvious to you,  you’re upset over a disappointing season.   
 

Odds are, we wouldn’t bring Lewis back to be a starter, Dayo will likely be the starting LDE. 

But Tyquan would be a key quality depth player.   We need as many good DL lineman as possible.   Lewis would easily be one of them. 

[DougDew]

26 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

 

And maybe that's the problem?  Our D scheme is very simple, and the O coordinators know it.  How many times have we faced O lines full of backups because of injuries, expecting to feast?  Yet nothing happens.

 

Let's face it, we don't have a Freeney or Mathis so we have to rely on coaching to play to guys strengths.  You can't always count on a guy to out athlete the opposite.  Especially when they have five and we have four.  

 

When we blitz and put pressure on the QB, most of the time it works out.  When we rush 4 and play that soft zone on 3rd and long, we give any decent QB time to scan the field and for them to send a crosser to the empty middle of the field.  I've seen it so many times it's predictable and sickening.

 

I won't profess to know more than any coach in the league.  But I do know the definition of insanity.  Apparently our D coach doesn't.

So the problem with our coaches is that they are not smart enough to turn lemon pass rushers into a lemonade pass rush?  That's a pretty high bar you're setting.

 

As @chad72said, there is nothing about our scheme that inhibits a pass rush.  In fact, it uses 4 dlineman.

 

Polian used to say that the inherent problem with the 34 is that the 3 dlineman don't rush the passer, they are there to stop the run, and the 34 has to MANUFACTURE a pass rush from the LBers.

 

Our scheme should be getting a pass rush, if it had decent pass rushers.

[Smonroe]

17 minutes ago, DougDew said:

So the problem with our coaches is that they are not smart enough to turn lemon pass rushers into a lemonade pass rush?  That's a pretty high bar you're setting.

 

As @chad72said, there is nothing about our scheme that inhibits a pass rush.  In fact, it uses 4 dlineman.

 

Polian used to say that the inherent problem with the 34 is that the 3 dlineman don't rush the passer, they are there to stop the run, and the 34 has to MANUFACTURE a pass rush from the LBers.

 

Our scheme should be getting a pass rush, if it had decent pass rushers.

 

I only have one example of how a decent player somehow didn't make it with our team - Terrell Basham.  He's not spectacular, but he's been solid in his time with the Jets and Cowboys.  Jerry Hughes was before this regime's time.  IMO, the coaching failed him (but I don't know the real story, so I'm guessing).

 

I do like the 4-3 better, I'm not saying we change that.  I am saying they can disguise the way they attack a lot better.  The guys are all very good athletes, or they wouldn't have been drafted that high.  But they're not elite.  They need some coaching assists.

 

BTW, when we did play the 3-4, we were in a 4-3 on most passing downs anyway.

 

 

[DougDew]

19 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

 

I only have one example of how a decent player somehow didn't make it with our team - Terrell Basham.  He's not spectacular, but he's been solid in his time with the Jets and Cowboys.  Jerry Hughes was before this regime's time.  IMO, the coaching failed him (but I don't know the real story, so I'm guessing).

 

I do like the 4-3 better, I'm not saying we change that.  I am saying they can disguise the way they attack a lot better.  The guys are all very good athletes, or they wouldn't have been drafted that high.  But they're not elite.  They need some coaching assists.

 

BTW, when we did play the 3-4, we were in a 4-3 on most passing downs anyway.

 

 

Basham has already been bouncing around.  He is probably a career backup on a series of short term contracts until he's out of the NFL.

 

We dropped Lewis into coverage and he got a pick.  We dropped other DLs into coverage at BALT and they played poorly.  

 

I think our coaches have the proper scheme for a pass rush...4 linemen...and do enough to change it up.  There is only so much that can be done with the 4 guys.

 

If you're talking about coverages from the back 7, more ingenuity can be had there.  But nobody is satisfied with the talent level of the back 7, IMO, so its hard to judge anything until the positions get settled.  Rhodes is probably gone after this season so that it yet another churning of the DB roster, and by most accounts he is our best DB.

[NewColtsFan]

For those who think we need to give Dayo more snaps right away to make up for the loss of Lewis….  I’d say just because we NEED Dayo more right now, doesn’t mean he’s ready to deliver right now.   He’s not. 
 

He will be eased back.  That’s always been the plan.  No need to rush him back and risk him re-injuring his Achilles.   The plan is for him to be a starter next season.   That’s the Big Picture.   Rushing him back and giving him too many snaps too soon is begging for trouble. 

[Blueblood23]

5 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Why?    His injury shouldn’t stop our interest.

 

Unless his injury is catastrophic, he should be ready to go in August.    We will make an offer.   The only question will be will someone else make a better one in either money or opportunity? 

I agree they love giving contracts to injured players. 

[Colt Overseas]

7 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

For those who think we need to give Dayo more snaps right away to make up for the loss of Lewis….  I’d say just because we NEED Dayo more right now, doesn’t mean he’s ready to deliver right now.   He’s not. 
 

He will be eased back.  That’s always been the plan.  No need to rush him back and risk him re-injuring his Achilles.   The plan is for him to be a starter next season.   That’s the Big Picture.   Rushing him back and giving him too many snaps too soon is begging for trouble. 

 

This is true. Most likely Rochell will see an increase in snaps too. But with Turay back from injury (for now) it will be Paye/Turay on the right and Muhammad/Rochell/Dayo on the left, for the next few games. Maybe in December, Dayo may earn more snaps.

[NewColtsFan]

53 minutes ago, Blueblood23 said:

I agree they love giving contracts to injured players. 

This is the NFL.   Finding players who have never been injured us nearly impossible.  If you play, odds are you’ll get hurt. 
 

But you know all that.   You just wanted to be snarky.   Right now, it’s all the rage! 

[Blueblood23]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

This is the NFL.   Finding players who have never been injured us nearly impossible.  If you play, odds are you’ll get hurt. 
 

But you know all that.   You just wanted to be snarky.   Right now, it’s all the rage! 

Don’t understand why they draft injured players and give contracts to players while they are injured. Just not a good formula for success as it’s playing out for us currently.

[NewColtsFan]

12 minutes ago, Blueblood23 said:

Don’t understand why they draft injured players and give contracts to players while they are injured. Just not a good formula for success as it’s playing out for us currently.

Because modern medicine is amazing. 
Because modern strength and conditioning is unbelievable.    Players can come back faster from injuries than ever before.   
 

Fisher, age 30, back in 8 months, now looking better these past two games. 
 

Dayo, back in 9 months.  
 

Blackmon, back in 9 months from his knee injury in college.   
 

Nelson and Wentz back in a month from broken foot surgery. 
 

As for signing injured players, I assume you’re talking Leonard and Smith.   They’re top players and teams are not phased by basic routine injuries.   Our Drs know our players.  They’re telling the front office our guys will be back and ready to play soon enough.   You can’t walk away from top young talent.  Even if they’re not 100 percent thus year, they’re young enough that they have many good years left in them.  

[ClaytonColt]

12 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

You’re trying to build a case against.   Lewis has been a serious contributor for a year and a half.   If this isn’t obvious to you,  you’re upset over a disappointing season.   
 

Odds are, we wouldn’t bring Lewis back to be a starter, Dayo will likely be the starting LDE. 

But Tyquan would be a key quality depth player.   We need as many good DL lineman as possible.   Lewis would easily be one of them. 

If I'm building a case against its only because there is a case against to be made. Missing loads of games is not a benefit.

 

A history of injury and mediocre production doesn't really strike him out as a player I'm going to bang the table for. He's an Al-Quadin Muhammad type of player but with more availability problems.

 

As depth he'd be okay,  wouldn't be upset about then resigning him for cheap, but there must be numerous players out there who bring the same production/potential as him without the injury risk so let's go into it with our eyes open rather than making out he is an obvious re-sign.

 

 

[lollygagger8]

19 hours ago, Smonroe said:

 

He was playing well.  I don't think it's going to take a lot to re-sign him.  Assuming he's healthy.

 

I agree he was playing well, but him being healthy is assuming an awful lot 

[TimetobringDfence!]

23 hours ago, CR91 said:

 

We seriously need to get rid of our turf. It's getting flipping ridiculous

Or don't draft from Ohio ST.

Doss 

Mewhort 

Hooker

Campbell 

Lewis

 

5 for 5 injury disasters...