Greg Cosell on Carson Wentz: "One of the most talented QBs in the league... last year was bad though"

[Dogg63]

19 minutes ago, Superman said:

1 hour ago, Stephen said:

Kerry collins, curtis  painter, dan orlovsky,  Scott  tolzien  were all worse than Brissett. 

 

It's not even close. JB replaced Tolzien after less than one game, and played significantly better than him, with two weeks of practice and about 20% of the playbook.

Puh-lease! Seriously.

 

Must we really let facts get in the way of a good ole JB hate fest??

[shasta519]

3 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Kerry Collins may be the worst? 

 

Since the Manning era started...I think so. At least his stats as a starting QB for the Colts would seem to indicate that. But overall, Painter and Tolzien were worse QBs.

 

 

[Superman]

16 minutes ago, Dogg63 said:

Puh-lease! Seriously.

 

Must we really let facts get in the way of a good ole JB hate fest??

 

I insist.

[Superman]

1 minute ago, shasta519 said:

 

Since the Manning era started...I think so. At least his stats as a starting QB for the Colts would seem to indicate that. But overall, Painter and Tolzien were worse QBs.

 

It's kind of like comparing what I did in the bathroom to what you did in the bathroom, but Collins played worse than Painter in 2011, on the same team, with the same staff. I didn't say Painter played better, because that word doesn't seem appropriate here. But I thought Collins was clearly worse, and a bad fit for our offense at the time.

 

It was always weird to bring Collins in as the starter the way they did. I get signing him. Making him the starter wasn't a good idea. Of course, the alternative was Curtis Painter, so it probably wouldn't have mattered.

[shasta519]

2 hours ago, Superman said:

 

It's kind of like comparing what I did in the bathroom to what you did in the bathroom, but Collins played worse than Painter in 2011, on the same team, with the same staff. I didn't say Painter played better, because that word doesn't seem appropriate here. But I thought Collins was clearly worse, and a bad fit for our offense at the time.

 

It was always weird to bring Collins in as the starter the way they did. I get signing him. Making him the starter wasn't a good idea. Of course, the alternative was Curtis Painter, so it probably wouldn't have mattered.

 

Yeah...I think any reasonable person would say that Kerry Collins was a better NFL QB than Curtis Painter (when evaluating their overall work and talent). But for the one season where Collins started any games for the Colts...I think he was a worse QB on the field. 

 

But upon second thought, I think I would actually argue that Tolzien was even worse than those two. That start against PIT in '16 (when he filled in for Luck getting a concussion) was Collins '11 bad.

 

But that start in Week 1 of the '17 season against the LAR might the worst QB performance for a Colts QB that I can recall (definitely on the level of Painter's '11 game against NO...and JB's 1st half against NO in '17). 

 

And since those two games are Tolzien's only starts as a Colt...I think he might actually get the nod here. 

 

Slow news time when are debating these QBs...lol.

[DeathByEagle]

Bad Coaching

No weapons that could run a route other then two injured TEs(Ertz) and Goedert.

An offensive line that had 15-16 new combos. They never had the time to gel to give Carson time

 

I think the fact you can see that Hurts had all the same issues Carson did in his 4 starts proves it was not just Wentz. If Hurts had the same games starting as Carson his turnovers, accuracy  etc would have been worse then Carson's. The only positive Hurts did over Wentz was he would take off and run for his life more. Not a winning system though in the long term. 

 

With that I am fully confident Wentz will have success with Frank and the Colts. 

[JoeThornburg]

1 hour ago, DeathByEagle said:

Bad Coaching

No weapons that could run a route other then two injured TEs(Ertz) and Goedert.

An offensive line that had 15-16 new combos. They never had the time to gel to give Carson time

 

I think the fact you can see that Hurts had all the same issues Carson did in his 4 starts proves it was not just Wentz. If Hurts had the same games starting as Carson his turnovers, accuracy  etc would have been worse then Carson's. The only positive Hurts did over Wentz was he would take off and run for his life more. Not a winning system though in the long term. 

 

With that I am fully confident Wentz will have success with Frank and the Colts. 

To further your point, some people had the opinion that the offense looked better with Hurts in the game. I agree that is mainly due to him tucking the ball and running, because here we are in the age of the "mobile" quarterback. There were countless times that Wentz ended up trying to call his own plays to compensate for Pederson's vanilla scheme and a banged up front. Combine that with receivers who can't get open (assuming they are even on the same page), and it's just an all around disaster.

[PRnum1]

On 2/22/2021 at 9:24 AM, Valpo2004 said:

A year ago we got Phillip Rivers and people were worried about the 20 picks he threw in 2019.  

 

Frank got him down to 11 picks while Phillip threw 1 more TD than he did in 2019.

 

If Frank believes he can fix Wentz than we have to trust him on that.  He just successfully fixed Rivers.  

 

Frank has earned our trust here.  

Frank did not "fix" Rivers. Rivers just had a much better Oline in Indy than the garbage oline he had for the Chargers in 2019.

 

If Rivers had an off season and preseason games he could have easily thrown for 30+ TDs.

 

Rivers had a much better oline in 2018 which was decimated by injury in 2019. In 2018 Rivers led the Chargers to a 12-4 record and a road win against Mahommes in arrowhead.