JT - Stats and Poll

[holeymoley99]

Been a Taylor homer since his freshmen years at Wisconsin and missed very few badgers game the last 3 seasons. Speed to burn, powerful leg drive, good vision and hands that are very solid. Saw him shred the same Big 10 Defenses Barkley was shredding and Taylor by a much larger margin often times a week or 2 apart.

[bestQBever]

Can I add an option to the poll:

 

didn't like him at all and rightfully so, but his improved play is starting to change my opinion.

[Nickster]

1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

Sound like you should worry more about Reich/Rathman than be skeptical of JT. I certainly understand the benefits of zone block read running, but there are times you just need to unleash your OL and RBs and just power/man/gap the hell out of teams. Especially if they're a light front. 

 

JT was good at zone reads too at Wiscy, it was just a very different scheme. They use a ton of 2 back plays. 

 

Mack took time to adjust too. JT at 4.6 in year one is FAR ahead of Mack's schedule. 

I don’t watch much CFB, but I would expect JT ran mostly inside zones.  Do you know if that’s the case?  It would make sense.  

[BeanDiasucci]

1 hour ago, Nickster said:

that was after the 9 carrry 22 yd rushing effort Week 1 v Jags.  Did you have a diffeent opinion of his running that game?

I had the opinion that it was wat too early to take away any negatives from his first game, especially when he wasn't expected to play so much before Mack's injury. That seemed like an OBVIOUS take. Here's another doozy from you in that thread. 

 

  

Quote

I’m telling you right now we are in trouble at RB with Mack probably out for the year.   

 

[Nickster]

7 minutes ago, BeanDiasucci said:

I had the opinion that it was wat too early to take away any negatives from his first game, especially when he wasn't expected to play so much before Mack's injury. That seemed like an OBVIOUS take. Here's another doozy from you in that thread. 

 

  

 

We were.  We had nearly the worst ypc in the league during the weakest part of our schedule until about 4-5 weeks ago.  Hines and Wilkins were featured in a few games and Taylor was pretty much benched.

 

we still have low ypc, below league average.  However I’ve seen enough of Taylor this month to be impressed.  I still think we will need another Mack like outside zone type of guy to really be the dominant running team we should be.

[stitches]

It's hard for me to pick an option from the poll because my feelings have been mixed from the beginning and they continue to be mixed. I thought he was a great talent at draft time, but I didn't want us to spend such a premier pick on RB. I didn't like the value ... and this has little to do with his talent. 

 

This is pretty much how I feel now too. He's played really well in the last several weeks and this has not been a surprise to me. I expected him to be good. I still don't love the value though. 

 

So I guess if I had to go with strict interpretation of the question and options i'd have to pick "Loved him since we drafted him" because it's true about his talent and his play now. (but there are certain caveats that should follow)

 

On the second question - if I had to bet, I'd probably bet no, because 80 yards per game is a lot for the next 2 games. 

[EastStreet]

14 minutes ago, Nickster said:

I don’t watch much CFB, but I would expect JT ran mostly inside zones.  Do you know if that’s the case?  It would make sense.  

nope. inside, outside, sweeps, etc. And a lot of FB, TE, and RB2 leading the way.

If you have 15 minutes, take a read.

 

https://www.thedailystampede.com/2019/8/15/20806114/watching-film-the-refined-brutality-of-the-wisconsin-offense-badgers-usf-football-jonathan-taylor

https://madison.com/wsj/sports/college/football/weekly-adjustments-make-badgers-offense-more-diverse-difficult-to-defend/article_de57ff90-cd2e-5f2c-a448-c12924fb39f4.html

https://blogs.usafootball.com/blog/7792/the-wisconsin-badgers-run-game-how-to-implement-simple-tweaks-to-create-explosive-runs

 

 

[EastStreet]

8 minutes ago, Nickster said:

We were.  We had nearly the worst ypc in the league during the weakest part of our schedule until about 4-5 weeks ago.  Hines and Wilkins were featured in a few games and Taylor was pretty much benched.

He had 100 yards in his 2nd game. Aside from Game 1, he's had 10 or more carries accept when he was gimpy mid season.

[crazycolt1]

2 hours ago, Nickster said:

 

I think that happens when he tries to make a move in the hole.  Yeah it happened several times.  He has to stay downhill because he is not good at changing directions or speed.  This is why I think we definitly need someone else.  

 

I said earlier that he's not really very powerful in the hole.  

You evidently didn't see his TD run this last game. I think you and some of the refs have the same eye doctors. 

[EastStreet]

7 minutes ago, stitches said:

It's hard for me to pick an option from the poll because my feelings have been mixed from the beginning and they continue to be mixed. I thought he was a great talent at draft time, but I didn't want us to spend such a premier pick on RB. I didn't like the value ... and this has little to do with his talent. 

 

This is pretty much how I feel now too. He's played really well in the last several weeks and this has not been a surprise to me. I expected him to be good. I still don't love the value though. 

 

So I guess if I had to go with strict interpretation of the question and options i'd have to pick "Loved him since we drafted him" because it's true about his talent and his play now. (but there are certain caveats that should follow)

 

On the second question - if I had to bet, I'd probably bet no, because 80 yards per game is a lot for the next 2 games. 

From a pure "pick" perspective, I wasn't crazy about it. I didn't think the need/value was where it needed to be. But as soon as he was drafted, that mattered no longer.  Same with Pittman to an extent but once he was the pick, I was happy. 

[Nickster]

6 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

You evidently didn't see his TD run this last game. I think you and some of the refs have the same eye doctors. 

Great run there.  No doubt.  But I also saw the half dozen or so times half dozen times or so he got just squared up in the hole.  
 

now that’s not a criticism really.  Mist of those plays were positive yds.  He just needs to slide and lean one way or the other on those plays.

 

East, on almost every one of the runs you sent me, he as running in the a or b gap.  There was one outside zone on the first article.

 

the articles talked about Wisco doing different stuff, but not Taylor so much.  I doubt he’ll make his living running around the end in the league.  Again that is not a criticism.

[crazycolt1]

1 minute ago, Nickster said:

Great run there.  No doubt.  But I also saw the half dozen or so times half dozen times or so he got just squared up in the hole.  
 

now that’s not a criticism really.  Mist of those plays were positive yds.  He just needs to slide and lean one way or the other on those plays.

 

East, on almost every one of the runs you sent me, he as running in the a or b gap.  There was one outside zone on the first play.

 

the articles talked about Wisco doing different stuff, but not Taylor so much.  I doubt he’ll make his living running around the end in the league.

You say it's not a criticism when that is exactly what you are doing. 

As far as making a living running around the end? I guess him catching 90% or better of his passes around the end escapes you? 

Hines gets those carries but I guess you haven't observed that either? 

[Nickster]

2 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

You say it's not a criticism when that is exactly what you are doing. 

As far as making a living running around the end? I guess him catching 90% or better of his passes around the end escapes you? 

Hines gets those carries but I guess you haven't observed that either? 

Huh?

[GRUMPY OLD MAN]

5 hours ago, EastStreet said:

 

Total Yards - 10th

Attempts - 8th

Average - 18th (RBs)

Yards Per Game - 13th

First Down Rushes - 5th

RB Yards from scrimmage - 7th

Catch % - 1st (all positions)

 

1. No RB with equal or more carries has less fumbles
2. He's went from 3.8ish YPC to 4.6 in short order
3. Will he get to 1000? We play the 6th rated rushing D (Pitt), followed by the 30th (Jax). I like his chances. He could get 158 vs Jax alone if Reich lets him.
4. 16th in total yards from scrimmage (all positions) and 7th out of RBs..... 
5. Just getting started as a receiver, but 1st in the league (all positions) in catch rate....
6. And.... leads Elliot in all stats... 

if we dont fall behind and frank does use him alot, 1000 yds

[crazycolt1]

Just now, Nickster said:

Huh?

It's kinda self explanatory IMO. 

[Nickster]

Just now, crazycolt1 said:

It's kinda self explanatory IMO. 

So you are saying a run around the end is the same thing as catching a pass out side the  end?  

[crazycolt1]

Just now, Nickster said:

So you are saying a run around the end is the same thing as catching a pass out side the  end?  

C-mon Dude, you have been negative on him all season. 

You say you are not criticizing him when that is what you have been doing since he was picked.

Is it that hard for you just to admit you may have been wrong about him instead of nit picking? 

[Nickster]

2 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

C-mon Dude, you have been negative on him all season. 

You say you are not criticizing him when that is what you have been doing since he was picked.

Is it that hard for you just to admit you may have been wrong about him instead of nit picking? 

Well man he really wasn’t a very good runner until about a month ago.  I said he looked really good that 3q at GB and have said so since.  
 

I was skeptical.  That doesn’t mean I wrote him off.  I also thought he needed under center and other downhill schemes.  Turns out to be true looks like to me.  You don’t see him going parallel to the los the last few games do you?

 

I never said the dude was a bust.  I said I was skeptical.  Taylor is going to be effective in the right scheme but won’t be if they try to make him Marlon Mack.  Plenty of other guys who liked him more than I did said the same thing.  I researched the dude quite a bit, and this is on his scouting report from college.

I said earlier in this thread I’m seriously thinking about buying his jersey and I haven’t bought one since Freeney.  (I’m extremely close to a dollar.)

[EastStreet]

17 minutes ago, DEFENSE said:

if we dont fall behind and frank does use him alot, 1000 yds

Purely my opinion, but I think we "try" to run early vs Pitt, and play somewhere between ball control / smash mouth, and 50/50 balanced. Obviously if Big Ben kills us early and we get down, things will change.

 

Vs Jax, assuming Frank remembers what happened week 1, I expect us to run more than pass, or pretty even. Taylor "should" easily be able to hit some long runs against those guys, and could have 100 in the first half. Only bad thing for Taylor is that they'll probably bench him 2nd half if we're up by 2 or more TDs.

 

My guess, 50-60 vs Pitt, 100-130 vs Jax. Hoping he eats, and eats a lot, very early. 

[crazycolt1]

3 minutes ago, Nickster said:

Well man he really wasn’t a very good runner until about a month ago.  I said he looked really good that 3q at GB and have said so since.  
 

I was skeptical.  That doesn’t mean I wrote him off.  I also thought he needed under center and other downhill schemes.  Turns out to be true looks like to me.  You don’t see him going parallel to the los the last few games do you?

He has always been a good runner. He just didn't all of a sudden become what he is now.

Part of it was scheme while some of it was just getting used to the speed of the game.

Most all of us were well aware of his capabilities and knew he just needed time to adjust. 

Sorry, you were a step behind. 

[Nickster]

29 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

He has always been a good runner. He just didn't all of a sudden become what he is now.

Part of it was scheme while some of it was just getting used to the speed of the game.

Most all of us were well aware of his capabilities and knew he just needed time to adjust. 

Sorry, you were a step behind. 

Hey I’m on board now man.

[crazycolt1]

39 minutes ago, Nickster said:

Hey I’m on board now man.

[EastStreet]

55 minutes ago, Nickster said:

Hey I’m on board now man.

[Douzer]

On the Pick: I was confident day 1, because teams like Iowa, Ohio State, Penn State, Michigan & Northwestern had speed in their secondary and JT took it to the house on them anyway - with authority, and an awesome blend of power and speed.

 

On the early 3.7 YPC: There's the obvious rookie thing, and I saw JT avoiding free-lancing and trying hard to run the play as it was drawn up, even when the holes weren't there. Team player...

 

Now: I see better passing, and less defenders in the box. And, when JJ Watt blows up the A gap, JT just ain't having it...

 

[Smoke317]

I liked the pick because I envisioned us leaning heavily on the run.  Now, I love the pick because he’s looking like a steal for a 2nd round pick.  He’s the most talented back we’ve had since Edge.  
 

Kid was born to play running back.  Perfect mix of speed & power.  And his hands have just been icing on the cake.  If he stays healthy he’s gonna perennially be at the top of the all purpose yardage lists.

 

I believe we can ride Taylor, this offensive line, this defense, and Phillip Rivers’ efficiency to a Super Bowl this year.  I think the OLine & Taylor are definitely getting into sync with each other.  Plus his enthusiastic running style and the way he often finishes runs falling forward seems to be giving our blockers their Edge back.
 

Let’s get back to road grading teams.   RTDB!!!!   With Taylor. 

[EastStreet]

32 minutes ago, Douzer said:

On the Pick: I was confident day 1, because teams like Iowa, Ohio State, Penn State, Michigan & Northwestern had speed in their secondary and JT took it to the house on them anyway - with authority, and an awesome blend of power and speed.

 

On the early 3.7 YPC: There's the obvious rookie thing, and I saw JT avoiding free-lancing and trying hard to run the play as it was drawn up, even when the holes weren't there. Team player...

 

Now: I see better passing, and less defenders in the box. And, when JJ Watt blows up the A gap, JT just ain't having it...

 

preach

[crazycolt1]

12 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

preach

[csmopar]

16 hours ago, EastStreet said:

 

Total Yards - 10th

Attempts - 8th

Average - 18th (RBs)

Yards Per Game - 13th

First Down Rushes - 5th

RB Yards from scrimmage - 7th

Catch % - 1st (all positions)

 

1. No RB with equal or more carries has less fumbles
2. He's went from 3.8ish YPC to 4.6 in short order
3. Will he get to 1000? We play the 6th rated rushing D (Pitt), followed by the 30th (Jax). I like his chances. He could get 158 vs Jax alone if Reich lets him.
4. 16th in total yards from scrimmage (all positions) and 7th out of RBs..... 
5. Just getting started as a receiver, but 1st in the league (all positions) in catch rate....
6. And.... leads Elliot in all stats... 

but but he's a bust..... after week 1 according to some on here.

[EastStreet]

3 hours ago, csmopar said:

but but he's a bust..... after week 1 according to some on here.

Yup, and if they don't have a 100 yard game by week 2, we should all right them off!

[EastStreet]

 

Jonathan Taylor among PFF's highest-graded rookies through Week 15

https://coltswire.usatoday.com/2020/12/22/indianapolis-colts-jonathan-taylor-pro-football-focus-highest-graded-rookies/

and

https://theathletic.com/2276849/2020/12/21/jonathan-taylor-colts-running-game/

 

 

[Nickster]

21 hours ago, Nickster said:

Hey I’m on board now man.

[Nickster]

20 hours ago, EastStreet said: