2018 - 2019 Indiana Pacers and everything NBA thread

[Finball]

On ‎3‎/‎5‎/‎2019 at 4:44 AM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Hate or him not, Kobe Bryant is a top 10 player of all-time. He is the 3rd all-time leading scorer in NBA history and has 5 Championships. He won 2 Championships without Shaq so he proved he could win without Shaq. Regarding LeBron, he is top 10 all-time too IMO but not sure where to rank him? As I have stated I do not have either above Jordan, Magic, or Kareem. Also on pure dominance alone, Wilt and Shaq were the 2 most dominant forces of all-time regarding the paint area. Kareem was just more skilled than those 2 and had range because of his Skyhook, he shot FT's much better than those 2 as well. Kareem is also the all-time leading scorer in NBA history. One key reason why Magic has to be top 3 is because he faced an equal in Bird in his era and got the better of Bird's teams 5-3 in Championships.

 

I think there's a case for Kobe being outside of top 10. MJ, KAJ, LBJ, Magic, Duncan, Shaq, Wilt, Hakeem, Russell and Byrd.

 

Jordan is the clear #1. I think Kareem or James is #2, the other #3. Wouldn't put Magic as high as he had so stacked team, inc. arguably the second best player all time as his teammate on every chip he won (though Magic was better on KAJ later years). And west was relatively weak back then.

 

Bird though, arguably didn't have a teammate that would rank even in the top 50 all time. And still beat some great, great teams.

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

5 hours ago, Finball said:

 

I think there's a case for Kobe being outside of top 10. MJ, KAJ, LBJ, Magic, Duncan, Shaq, Wilt, Hakeem, Russell and Byrd.

 

Jordan is the clear #1. I think Kareem or James is #2, the other #3. Wouldn't put Magic as high as he had so stacked team, inc. arguably the second best player all time as his teammate on every chip he won (though Magic was better on KAJ later years). And west was relatively weak back then.

 

Bird though, arguably didn't have a teammate that would rank even in the top 50 all time. And still beat some great, great teams.

 

You pretty much have who I have in your Top 10 except I would have Kobe instead of Hakeem in mine. Duncan makes my Top 10 so we agree on that. No disrespect to Hakeem but IMO Kobe was the more impactful player during his career, especially in the playoffs. Hakeem did win 2 Championships but Kobe won 2 without Shaq even. Kobe also has more career points. Regarding Bird, Bird's teams were loaded with HOFamers. McHale might be the most underrated PF of all-time. He made the top all-time 50 players list that the NBA put out. They also had Robert Parish and Dennis Johnson, and for 1 year Bill Walton. All of those players made the HOFame. The 2 players I struggled with leaving off my top 10 were Hakeem and Oscar Robertson. Had Karl Malone won just 1 Ring I would've considered him as well. Karl was really great.

 

I could see a list something like this:

1. Michael Jordan

2. Magic Johnson - He was the best player on all the Lakers Championship teams (nothing against Kareem but he was), even in 1980 as a rookie. He won MVP of the Finals even in 1980.

3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

4. LeBron James here

5. Wilt Chamberlain

6. Larry Bird

7. Shaq O'Neal

8. Bill Russell

9. Tim Duncan

10. Kobe Bryant here to round out the top 10

[oldunclemark]

Bulls 108, 76ers 107... -- final..

Tanks for not tanking..Bulls..

 

Now its...... 3.) Pacers (42-23)

..and 4.) Philadelphia (41-24)...

...and 56.) Boston (39-26) ....with 17 to play

 

..we play Milwaukee Thursday..76ers play Houston Friday

[MTC]

14 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

Bulls 108, 76ers 107... -- final..

Tanks for not tanking..Bulls..

 

Now its...... 3.) Pacers (42-23)

..and 4.) Philadelphia (41-24)...

...and 56.) Boston (39-26) ....with 17 to play

 

..we play Milwaukee Thursday..76ers play Houston Friday

 

Thank god the Bulls won. Wow. 

[Colts1324]

4 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

You pretty much have who I have in your Top 10 except I would have Kobe instead of Hakeem in mine. Duncan makes my Top 10 so we agree on that. No disrespect to Hakeem but IMO Kobe was the more impactful player during his career, especially in the playoffs. Hakeem did win 2 Championships but Kobe won 2 without Shaq even. Kobe also has more career points. Regarding Bird, Bird's teams were loaded with HOFamers. McHale might be the most underrated PF of all-time. He made the top all-time 50 players list that the NBA put out. They also had Robert Parish and Dennis Johnson, and for 1 year Bill Walton. All of those players made the HOFame. The 2 players I struggled with leaving off my top 10 were Hakeem and Oscar Robertson. Had Karl Malone won just 1 Ring I would've considered him as well. Karl was really great.

 

I could see a list something like this:

1. Michael Jordan

2. Magic Johnson - He was the best player on all the Lakers Championship teams (nothing against Kareem but he was), even in 1980 as a rookie. He won MVP of the Finals even in 1980.

3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

4. LeBron James here

5. Wilt Chamberlain

6. Larry Bird

7. Shaq O'Neal

8. Bill Russell

9. Tim Duncan

10. Kobe Bryant here to round out the top 10

There is no way Tim Duncan is ranked higher than Kobe. Kobe was an idol and could flip a game third to MJ and Lebron James. I wouldn’t rank Shaq higher than Kobe either honestly. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

48 minutes ago, Colts1324 said:

There is no way Tim Duncan is ranked higher than Kobe. Kobe was an idol and could flip a game third to MJ and Lebron James. I wouldn’t rank Shaq higher than Kobe either honestly. 

I think during the 1st 3 Championships, Shaq was the best player on the Lakers (at least most dominant). Kobe winning 2 without him is what makes his legacy, JMO. Kobe is without a doubt top 10 (that is the point I was driving home here) but some do not think so. Whether or not he was better than Shaq or Duncan is debatable though. Duncan doesn't get much respect because he was dull/not flashy and played for a team that was boring to watch but he belongs in the top 10 IMO.  Duncan won 2 MVP's to Kobe's 1 and won 3 Finals MVP's to Kobe's 2. Both won 5 Championships but Kobe scored more all-time points so it's like flipping a coin. Shaq was more dominant than both though. Shaq is only 1 of 2 players to win 3 straight Finals MVP's, the other was Michael Jordan so that puts Shaq in rare company.

[Finball]

14 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

You pretty much have who I have in your Top 10 except I would have Kobe instead of Hakeem in mine. Duncan makes my Top 10 so we agree on that. No disrespect to Hakeem but IMO Kobe was the more impactful player during his career, especially in the playoffs. Hakeem did win 2 Championships but Kobe won 2 without Shaq even. Kobe also has more career points. Regarding Bird, Bird's teams were loaded with HOFamers. McHale might be the most underrated PF of all-time. He made the top all-time 50 players list that the NBA put out. They also had Robert Parish and Dennis Johnson, and for 1 year Bill Walton. All of those players made the HOFame. The 2 players I struggled with leaving off my top 10 were Hakeem and Oscar Robertson. Had Karl Malone won just 1 Ring I would've considered him as well. Karl was really great.

 

I could see a list something like this:

1. Michael Jordan

2. Magic Johnson - He was the best player on all the Lakers Championship teams (nothing against Kareem but he was), even in 1980 as a rookie. He won MVP of the Finals even in 1980.

3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

4. LeBron James here

5. Wilt Chamberlain

6. Larry Bird

7. Shaq O'Neal

8. Bill Russell

9. Tim Duncan

10. Kobe Bryant here to round out the top 10

 

I think McHale and Parish have a case as top 50 players all time but not clear cut. Dennis Johnson doesn't belong there and Walton was way past his prime when he played for the Cs.

 

KAJ was imo better than Magic early on but Magic deserved the finals MVP in 1980. KAJ missed the final game of the series and LAL won it handily with Magic being far the best player on the court.

 

Hakeem increased his scoring significantly in the playoffs compared to regular season (25.9/gm vs 21.8/gm) as for Kobe it was lot smaller increase (25.6 vs 25). Hakeem's efficiency also spiked more, though Kobe also had an increase there. They rank relatively close in Playoff ppg compared to their peers during their careers. I think they were almost identical in how long they were All-star caliber players but Hakeem was the best player in the league for 2 years imo, 3 if not for the GOAT. For Kobe, I think he was the clear cut best player for only one season in his career. But he did have more chips. So I think it's close but I'd give Hakeem the edge.

 

Other than that, I think out top 10 is pretty similar. I could put Duncan higher, as Bird had relatively short career and Shaq got too lazy towards the end of his career.
 

[oldunclemark]

Sabonis not playing in Milwaukee...

 

Here's one we're not supposed to win.   National TV.  Lets see

[2006Coltsbestever]

5 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

Sabonis not playing in Milwaukee...

 

Here's one we're not supposed to win.   National TV.  Lets see

I was hoping he would play, that stinks. This is going to be a real tough game being shorthanded. 

[MTC]

35 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

Sabonis not playing in Milwaukee...

 

Here's one we're not supposed to win.   National TV.  Lets see

 

With a healthy roster (aka Sabonis playing), we make it close. I have a hard time seeing the Pacers win tonight, but I hope they prove me wrong. 

 

 

Note for Sunday's game.

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, MTC said:

 

With a healthy roster (aka Sabonis playing), we make it close. I have a hard time seeing the Pacers win tonight, but I hope they prove me wrong. 

We have to play really well to win this game = not turn it over and shoot a great % from 3.

[MTC]

Just as we all expected. Bucks are making all their three-point attempts. 

[MTC]

Pacers are taking advantage of lazy passing + turnovers from the Bucks.

[MTC]

We're taking waaay too many three-point attempts. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

We are hanging tough, only down 51-46.

[oldunclemark]

27 minutes ago, MTC said:

We're taking waaay too many three-point attempts. 

,,and they are encouraging it.

They're letting Myles shoot and he's done well.

 

But that's not the kind of style of game we can win here

 

Our offense is the style we used to play when we had West and Paul George and Roy Hibbert

 

We play slow

[oldunclemark]

    Matthews isnt scoring a  lick but he's strong defensively.

 

Listen to how quiet the crowd is

[2006Coltsbestever]

Giannis will never be the best player in the league until he can shoot 3's. Durant is better as of now. He just had a wide open look and passed the ball. We are only down 4 at 54-50 at the Half. Not too bad so far. 

[oldunclemark]

That's a good half...

Giannis had 13 but it was 8 of 8 from the line.

 

54-50...and

Matthews and Collison and Evans havent taken a lot of shots...

[oldunclemark]

3 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Giannis will never be the best player in the league until he can shoot 3's. Durant is better as of now. He just had a wide open look and passed the ball. We are only down 4 at 54-50 at the Half. Not too bad so far. 

Defensively, everybody still wants Giannis to shot 3s

..and we double him in the post so he drifts out side.

 

So far, so good

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, oldunclemark said:

That's a good half...

Giannis had 13 but it was 8 of 8 from the line.

 

54-50...and

Matthews and Collison and Evans havent taken a lot of shots...

If Wes can get going from 3 we have a shot. Bogey needs to be hot too.

[crazycolt1]

We sure miss Sabonis and his rebounding.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, crazycolt1 said:

We sure miss Sabonis and his rebounding.

If we had him we might actually be winning this game.

[oldunclemark]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

If Wes can get going from 3 we have a shot. Bogey needs to be hot too.

This is a big game......in the push for the '3' spot.

We have no one in foul trouble...and we have slowed the game down

 

We're playing like its 1995

 

[oldunclemark]

1 minute ago, crazycolt1 said:

We sure miss Sabonis and his rebounding.

No doubt. Our second team is built around him  Rebounding and setting screens.

Watch how we arent setting any good picks

2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

If we had him we might actually be winning this game.

He'd be killing Brooke Lopez and Pau

[oldunclemark]

Quietly Thad Young is going a good job vs. Giannis

..and Myles has 13 and 7..although I dont want him to shoot so many 3s

If he gets down low....Brooke Lopez will have a problem,

[2006Coltsbestever]

18 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

This is a big game......in the push for the '3' spot.

We have no one in foul trouble...and we have slowed the game down

 

We're playing like its 1995

 

Reggie for 3! Boom Baby - 1995

[oldunclemark]

Of course he was fouled../

 

but Giannis.....this is how its going to be in the playoffs

[2006Coltsbestever]

Brook Lopez making 30 footers  

[oldunclemark]

We have no one in the post at all on offense.

They want us to take 3s

[oldunclemark]

Since when do the refs go to the broadcast team and tell the announcers what the call is?

Down 84-72 after 3Qs...not over yet

[oldunclemark]

Myles has 18 points and 14 rebounds  in 3 Qs and that's fine but hes 4 of 10 on 3s.

He cant be taking 10 3s

[2006Coltsbestever]

9 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

We have no one in the post at all on offense.

They want us to take 3s

In order to beat them that was one of my keys. We had to hit 3's. This looks over.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, oldunclemark said:

Myles has 18 points and 14 rebounds  in 3 Qs and that's fine but hes 4 of 10 on 3s.

He cant be taking 10 3s

4-10 is great actually, I will take 40% from 3 all day.

[oldunclemark]

 

   The coaches dont seem to mind talking to Kristen Ludlow..

[oldunclemark]

5 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

In order to beat them that was one of my keys. We had to hit 3's. This looks over.

We cant be shooting 25-30 3s....

That's not our game

 

We have shot 30 3s

[oldunclemark]

5 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

4-10 is great actually, I will take 40% from 3 all day.

4 of 10 isnt great....

He's playing against Brooke Lopex and Pau and hes at the 3-line

 

We need a low post guy against this team

[oldunclemark]

Is everybody taught to fall down when they shoot a 3 now?

[crazycolt1]

1 minute ago, oldunclemark said:

Is everybody taught to fall down when they shoot a 3 now?

Yeah, it makes for the highlights on ESPN. The dramatics also get a lot of fouls called no matter if they were real fouls.

The thing that irritates me is when the Pacers play like who they play instead of how they are capable.

[oldunclemark]

Have the TNT announcers mentioned that Sabonis, our second leading scorer, is out>?