Rookie Quarterbacks

[mrati2d]

Wanted to share my thoughts on having a rookie quarterback especially for the Colts. Its hard to imagine having to come here and try to fill the shoes that Peyton leaves behind when he is done.

I remember Peyton's first year with the Colts. I was hot! I was a huge Harbaugh fan and couldnt believe they got rid of him to take some kid out of college to lead my team. Every interception he threw, I told everyone around me about it too. I eventually begrudgingly admitted to being impressed at how he would get back out there and throw the same route. It ended up turning out pretty good for the Colts.

We have to remember that first year when we welcome the new leader to our offense. Whether he starts this year or whenever, he has huge shoes to fill and I will be behind this one, a little wiser.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Manning's 1998 year is one of the key reasons he progressed the way he did.

He saw the coverages, sets, blitzes at NFL speed. He made mistakes, he learned from those mistakes. If he doesn't play in 98, then the growth of the franchise would have been stunted.

The same thing with Luck, or RGIII. They need to play from day 1. There are examples of players sitting and coming in, sitting, and then being great once they play(Rivers, Rodgers, etc).

There are examples of quarterbacks that play early and flame out(Russell, Leaf, etc).

The sooner we know whether Luck or RGIII is the answer the better off we are. If they progress to a solid QB then great. If they bust, then the sooner the better so we can do what San Diego did and draft Drew Brees.

Just another example of why it's not the best case scenario for Manning/Luck or RGIII to be on the same team.

[MSColtsFan]

I think FireJim is right, and I was, until recent days, hopeful Manning could stay and play so I was in the camp of it's ok to have the rookie sit for a year or two. In a vacuum, without the Manning factor, or any other QB on the roster, yes, throw him to the wolves. The successful rookie QB - or those who turn out successful - nearly all say that they gained invaluable experience getting on the field and facing the fire, throwing the INTs, learning the speed of the game, learning to read defenses. You can't adjust to the speed and skill of a NFL D watching film, or holding a clipboard.

Your point though is perhaps the biggest question, even for the most well adjusted, skilled kid coming out of college. The rookie will have to "live up" to the legacy of QB play in Indy, will forever be compared to Manning, will forever hear 'yeah but...' when good seasons or games still fall short of Manning's records. Not an easy thing, and unneccessary pressure. And especially if the divorce is ugly here. I will say one of the reported traits of Luck, and RG3 for that matter, is maturity, which to me is what makes them more likely to succeed. Leaf has admitted in recent interviews he wasn't mentally prepared to be a NFL player as a rookie. Russell never studied, put in the work, and made horrible decisions about how to spend his time and money (I live in Northern California - the reports about Russell were mindboggling - starting from the first week he got here). Carr let gettitng sacked eight times a game and the constant losing beat him down to the point where he was basically shell shocked.

For all the physical assessments, testing all the throws, measuring standing jump heights, and other physical nonsense, perhaps the most important thing a rookie can bring is maturity and the intellectual capacity to work through the adjustment between college football and the NFL.

[Smitto]

If the offense Is gonna change I wonder if they take luck is he gonna be as dynamic as peyton... the colts seem like they are gonna be a run first team this year with chuck...

Now that chuck is here I think the colts take a stronger look at Griffin, his philosophy doesn't seem to be pass pass pass.

[MSColtsFan]

If the offense Is gonna change I wonder if they take luck is he gonna be as dynamic as peyton... the colts seem like they are gonna be a run first team this year with chuck...

Now that chuck is here I think the colts take a stronger look at Griffin, his philosophy doesn't seem to be pass pass pass.

I actually think it is the exact opposite. What Luck excelled at, more due to a lack of talent at the WR spot at Stanford, is multiple TE formations, run first, lots of play action. The 49ers are now running an offense not dislike Stanford - and Alex Smith, a moderately talented QB, excelled, had a break out year, with no WR help, but a hugely talented TE and RB. I think if we go more run first, larger OL, more smash mouth, Luck is the perfect fit having run that for three years.

[deadman]

If the offense Is gonna change I wonder if they take luck is he gonna be as dynamic as peyton... the colts seem like they are gonna be a run first team this year with chuck...

Now that chuck is here I think the colts take a stronger look at Griffin, his philosophy doesn't seem to be pass pass pass.

It seems like Luck ran an offense that was run first.

RUSHING Att Yds Avg TD Team 518 2,738 5.3 32

PASSING PC-PA Pct Yds Int TD Yds/A Team 297-417 71.2 3,623 10 38 8.7

[FireJimCaldwell]

Personally I feel both RGIII and Luck will have struggles early on if they try to force them into Manning's offense.

Luck ran a west coast offense in college, and RGIII ran more of hybrid WCO/Spread and I feel that each would be better suited and more successful in a west coast offense.

[UndecidedFrog]

Luck ran a west coast offense in college, and RGIII ran more of hybrid WCO/Spread and I feel that each would be better suited and more successful in a west coast offense.

I think Luck led a power run offense, that sprinkled in passes when the defense loaded the box to stop the run.

Given the maturity of both Luck and RG3, I think they will be quick to adapt to whatever offensive scheme HC Pagano will install.

[FireJimCaldwell]

I think Luck led a power run offense, that sprinkled in passes when the defense loaded the box to stop the run.

Given the maturity of both Luck and RG3, I think they will be quick to adapt to whatever offensive scheme HC Pagano will install.

An offense can go either way with a run to pass ratio or a pass to run ratio. I agree that it was a power run with a heavy TE package, but it was still based out of the WCO.

For the most part I agree. If he chooses to retain Christensen and keep the Manning offense I think each will struggle. Maybe not Paintersque, but it won't be pretty.

[No 1 Manning Fan]

The 49ers are now running an offense not dislike Stanford - and Alex Smith, a moderately talented QB, excelled, had a break out year, with no WR help, but a hugely talented TE and RB.

I think a few teams in the league would like to have Ginn and Crabtree, even if they were no help.

[MSColtsFan]

I think a few teams in the league would like to have Ginn and Crabtree, even if they were no help.

Crabtree needs to mature, and become much more consistent, but I do like him. Ginn is a punt returner. He has never proven, in multiple years, to be a very good WR. The kid who the 49ers really missed this year is Josh Morgan - he might emerge as the go-to guy there. Plus, I would be shocked if they pass up a WR with their first pick this year in the draft.

[No 1 Manning Fan]

Crabtree needs to mature, and become much more consistent, but I do like him. Ginn is a punt returner. He has never proven, in multiple years, to be a very good WR. The kid who the 49ers really missed this year is Josh Morgan - he might emerge as the go-to guy there. Plus, I would be shocked if they pass up a WR with their first pick this year in the draft.

No doubt about it, they need to improve. But, in the games I watched this year, there were several occasions to hit Crabtree and Ginn for long gains. Alex Smith just missed the throws, scrambled, or found Vernon Davis for a short to medium gain, which is not a bad choice I guess. Are the top tier receivers? No, but I still wouldnt say that he had no WR help. You could just as easily make the arguement that they had little QB help.

[Smitto]

I actually think it is the exact opposite. What Luck excelled at, more due to a lack of talent at the WR spot at Stanford, is multiple TE formations, run first, lots of play action. The 49ers are now running an offense not dislike Stanford - and Alex Smith, a moderately talented QB, excelled, had a break out year, with no WR help, but a hugely talented TE and RB. I think if we go more run first, larger OL, more smash mouth, Luck is the perfect fit having run that for three years.

He very well may be but for me the mobility of Griffin looks too good to pass up... only difference i can find in these guys is that one of them ran a version of the west coast offense.

[WSO]

He very well may be but for me the mobility of Griffin looks too good to pass up... only difference i can find in these guys is that one of them ran a version of the west coast offense.

Luck is more polished all around and played in a true pro style offense. You also need to take into account Luck is quite mobile. Much more so than Manning even when he was coming out of college.

[Smitto]

Luck is more polished all around and played in a true pro style offense. You also need to take into account Luck is quite mobile. Much more so than Manning even when he was coming out of college.

Luck running a "true pro style offense" wont make him better than Griffin, im not even sure most ppl know what a pro style offense even is. Both QB's will come into the NFL learning new things and chances are they wont be learning anything like they had in college.

Luck is quite mobile no doubt but not as much as much as Griffin... like they say common sense isnt so common these days so i wouldnt be surprised if the colts actually took Griffin over Luck... we'll just have to wait and see, after a while im sure there are gonna be more articles about the colts looking at Griffin.

[GwinnettColt]

Seeing all of these photoshopped Andrew Luck with #12 in a Colts jersey-not used to it.

I keep thinking there a bunch of Jim Sorgi fans here.

As for QB's, I'd agree that Griffin is more mobile. As far as Indy taking Griffin over Luck, I don't see it but it could happen. I know it was Polian, but Manning over Leaf, Edge over Ricky. Nothing surprises me-especially when Polian took Tight Ends when we had needs elsewhere.

[04DarkShadowGT]

If/when Peyton is gone before the season and we all kind of agree that the offense will be more balanced going forward. I would love Indy to take some of the $$ from expiring contracts and see if they can make a run at a guy like Ray Rice. He is young and a free agent. Ray Rice and Donald Brown would be a good 1-2 punch.

Highly highly unlikely that he would come and who knows what the cap numbers will look like anyway.

[presto123]

Luck running a "true pro style offense" wont make him better than Griffin, im not even sure most ppl know what a pro style offense even is. Both QB's will come into the NFL learning new things and chances are they wont be learning anything like they had in college.

Luck is quite mobile no doubt but not as much as much as Griffin... like they say common sense isnt so common these days so i wouldnt be surprised if the colts actually took Griffin over Luck... we'll just have to wait and see, after a while im sure there are gonna be more articles about the colts looking at Griffin.

Just won't give up on the Griffin thing huh? LOL At least you stick to your guns even though most everybody on the board disagrees with you. If the Colts take Griffin I think everybody on this board should buy you a drink(or Coke)....

[04DarkShadowGT]

Just won't give up on the Griffin thing huh? LOL At least you stick to your guns even though most everybody on the board disagrees with you. If the Colts take Griffin I think everybody on this board should buy you a drink(or Coke)....

I would prefer Luck, he from all accounts seems to be the safer pick and a more certain NFL claiber QB. Although I think Griffin may have more upside if he hits on the right team.

[WSO]

Luck running a "true pro style offense" wont make him better than Griffin, im not even sure most ppl know what a pro style offense even is. Both QB's will come into the NFL learning new things and chances are they wont be learning anything like they had in college.

Luck is quite mobile no doubt but not as much as much as Griffin... like they say common sense isnt so common these days so i wouldnt be surprised if the colts actually took Griffin over Luck... we'll just have to wait and see, after a while im sure there are gonna be more articles about the colts looking at Griffin.

I dont think you understand. Andrew Luck runs basically the west coast offense. The Colts can find an OC to run the WCO and Luck will have no issues whatsoever. He will just learn the playbook and get used to the speed of the NFL. He will know how to run the WCO offense.

Griffin does not run in a true pro style offense. Its part pro style part college (part WCO). He will have a longer time adjusting and learning the offense as opposed to luck. This is a huge reason why Luck has an advantage and the big gap between Luck and Griffin.

And when you say I'm not sure how many people know what a pro style offense is, I think you're talking about yourself. Most of us here already know Luck runs a WCO which is used all around the NFL and how valuable a QB in a pro style offense is.

Common sense isnt so common? You are the only poster i've seen suggesting taking RG3 over Luck.

[Balzer40]

I dont think you understand. Andrew Luck runs basically the west coast offense. The Colts can find an OC to run the WCO and Luck will have no issues whatsoever. He will just learn the playbook and get used to the speed of the NFL. He will know how to run the WCO offense.

Griffin does not run in a true pro style offense. Its part pro style part college (part WCO). He will have a longer time adjusting and learning the offense as opposed to luck. This is a huge reason why Luck has an advantage and the big gap between Luck and Griffin.

And when you say I'm not sure how many people know what a pro style offense is, I think you're talking about yourself. Most of us here already know Luck runs a WCO which is used all around the NFL and how valuable a QB in a pro style offense is.

Common sense isnt so common? You are the only poster i've seen suggesting taking RG3 over Luck.

I agree. Most Grffin supporters keep ignoring the fact that Griffin has never had to read defenses in college. The D coor. called every single play for him from the booth. Griffin is going to have to have a huge learning curve in the NFL and he's going to have to go to a team that will have a lot of patience with him. His legs are not going to save him in the NFL like they did against much weaker competition in college. With that said, it don't matter anyways. Im positive that the decision has already been made to draft Luck.

[jvan1973]

Regaurdless who is under center, i think next year will be a tough one.. Hopefully Pagano can install his D quickly, but it will be tough with the current roster and little room for FA under the cap.. If Peyton isnt back, i will wish him well and always be glad i got to watch him while he was here.. Im hopefull after a rough 2012, we can be back to winning games in bunches in 2013..

[jvan1973]

Luck running a "true pro style offense" wont make him better than Griffin, im not even sure most ppl know what a pro style offense even is. Both QB's will come into the NFL learning new things and chances are they wont be learning anything like they had in college.

Luck is quite mobile no doubt but not as much as much as Griffin... like they say common sense isnt so common these days so i wouldnt be surprised if the colts actually took Griffin over Luck... we'll just have to wait and see, after a while im sure there are gonna be more articles about the colts looking at Griffin.

Ill pass on Vick-lite.. RG3 is a great athlete, but how many run first QB's have been great in the NFL..

[WoolMagnet]

Luck running a "true pro style offense" wont make him better than Griffin, im not even sure most ppl know what a pro style offense even is. Both QB's will come into the NFL learning new things and chances are they wont be learning anything like they had in college.

Luck is quite mobile no doubt but not as much as much as Griffin... like they say common sense isnt so common these days so i wouldnt be surprised if the colts actually took Griffin over Luck... we'll just have to wait and see, after a while im sure there are gonna be more articles about the colts looking at Griffin.

I don't want a running QB. Thats what the RB position is for.

Running QBs don't last.

I'll take the polished "pure passer" everytime.

[MSColtsFan]

I agree. Most Grffin supporters keep ignoring the fact that Griffin has never had to read defenses in college. The D coor. called every single play for him from the booth. Griffin is going to have to have a huge learning curve in the NFL and he's going to have to go to a team that will have a lot of patience with him. His legs are not going to save him in the NFL like they did against much weaker competition in college. With that said, it don't matter anyways. Im positive that the decision has already been made to draft Luck.

I'm no scout or expert, but I saw a lot of bad footwork and lack of poise at times from RG3. Baylor ran a much more wide open offense though, and after his knee surgery, he did become a pass first, run second player as opposed to earlier in his career. I think he throws a great deep ball. I have no doubt he is more athletic, faster, and more elusive than Luck. He is a multi-sport star. But I agree with you, I sincerely believe that RG3 will have to change much more than Luck going to the NFL. I also think RG3 will create more highlights than Luck - the big plays, the big escapes, the highlight reel stuff ESPN and others soil themselves over. But I think Luck will be the much more consistent player. To me it's a gunslinger/high risk, high reward, versus consistent/steady/methodical kind of difference in players. Frankly, not that unlike Manning/Leaf. Manning was evaluated as steady, cerebral, methodical. Leaf was a one-year wonder, fiery, big, strong, chuck and duck, highlight reel kind of player. The huge difference to me is, RG3 is as muture and hard working as Luck, and will not, in my opinion, fail at the NFL level. As a matter of fact, I believe he may well end up in a better situation - go to a contender now - than Luck. Someone will fall in love with RG3 and move up to get him. I like both QBs a lot, and I hope they both have a ton of success.

[21isSuperman]

Hm...I think it's a little hard to say. There is no question that sitting behind a veteran will help. There is no question that being in the meeting rooms and film rooms with a guy like Peyton would help Luck. But many QBs (notably Eli) have said that while sitting for a few years did help, playing in an actual game was a completely different experience

[FireJimCaldwell]

Hm...I think it's a little hard to say. There is no question that sitting behind a veteran will help. There is no question that being in the meeting rooms and film rooms with a guy like Peyton would help Luck. But many QBs (notably Eli) have said that while sitting for a few years did help, playing in an actual game was a completely different experience

Eli only sat for about 9 games... from what I remember he felt playing did more than sitting and Peyton has said the same thing about Eli's feelings. But others have benefited from sitting.. Rodgers, Rivers etc, but I still feel they would have been better off playing day 1.

[Balzer40]

I'm no scout or expert, but I saw a lot of bad footwork and lack of poise at times from RG3. Baylor ran a much more wide open offense though, and after his knee surgery, he did become a pass first, run second player as opposed to earlier in his career. I think he throws a great deep ball. I have no doubt he is more athletic, faster, and more elusive than Luck. He is a multi-sport star. But I agree with you, I sincerely believe that RG3 will have to change much more than Luck going to the NFL. I also think RG3 will create more highlights than Luck - the big plays, the big escapes, the highlight reel stuff ESPN and others soil themselves over. But I think Luck will be the much more consistent player. To me it's a gunslinger/high risk, high reward, versus consistent/steady/methodical kind of difference in players. Frankly, not that unlike Manning/Leaf. Manning was evaluated as steady, cerebral, methodical. Leaf was a one-year wonder, fiery, big, strong, chuck and duck, highlight reel kind of player. The huge difference to me is, RG3 is as muture and hard working as Luck, and will not, in my opinion, fail at the NFL level. As a matter of fact, I believe he may well end up in a better situation - go to a contender now - than Luck. Someone will fall in love with RG3 and move up to get him. I like both QBs a lot, and I hope they both have a ton of success.

I agree. RG3 is more athletic and quicker. Luck is still a pretty moble QB for a big guy and he will run over people if he has too, although I hope he don't do that when he comes here. RG3 will be a good QB in the NFL in time, but like I said, I think it will take him several yrs. to grasp all the defensive looks he's going to get in the NFL and know when to call certain plays. Luck has been doing that for 3 yrs. at Stanford. He too, will struggle early on just like every rookie QB, but I think he will figure it out much quicker than RG3 will.

[MSColtsFan]

I agree. RG3 is more athletic and quicker. Luck is still a pretty moble QB for a big guy and he will run over people if he has too, although I hope he don't do that when he comes here. RG3 will be a good QB in the NFL in time, but like I said, I think it will take him several yrs. to grasp all the defensive looks he's going to get in the NFL and know when to call certain plays. Luck has been doing that for 3 yrs. at Stanford. He too, will struggle early on just like every rookie QB, but I think he will figure it out much quicker than RG3 will.

Having Harbaugh, an NFL QB, coach you is an enormous head start too. A NFL QB dad in Oliver. We happened to enjoy a player for 14 years who followed a very similar path. Luck was raised to be a QB.

[Smitto]

Just won't give up on the Griffin thing huh? LOL At least you stick to your guns even though most everybody on the board disagrees with you. If the Colts take Griffin I think everybody on this board should buy you a drink(or Coke)....

lol Im a rebel mate, i think during the combine ppl are gonna realize that Luck isnt so much of the consensus pick as everyone thinks he is.

[MSColtsFan]

lol Im a rebel mate, i think during the combine ppl are gonna realize that Luck isnt so much of the consensus pick as everyone thinks he is.

Luck and RG3 will not do anything more than take the Wonderlic and weigh-in at the combine. There is no reason for either to participate in the musical chairs nonsense, cone drills, and other bizarre rituals at LOS. I will be shocked if they actually go through all the drills. You are right though - RG3 will be on numerous boards as the best player in this draft, which is why I firmly believe he will go #2. The Rams can't take him, and unless they love Blackmon, I see them being offered enough to move out of the way for a team that feels they got the best player.

RG3 is going to own the interview process too - teams who were on the fence will fall in love with him after talking to him. Universally you hear the people who have interviewed/talk to RG3 say he is an unbelievable kid.

[WSO]

lol Im a rebel mate, i think during the combine ppl are gonna realize that Luck isnt so much of the consensus pick as everyone thinks he is.

They will not be at the combine

I'm glad you aren't a GM lol

[FireJimCaldwell]

They will not be at the combine

I'm glad you aren't a GM lol

Why wouldn't they be at the combine? They might choose not to some of the drills, but they would be there.

[Smitto]

I dont think you understand. Andrew Luck runs basically the west coast offense. The Colts can find an OC to run the WCO and Luck will have no issues whatsoever. He will just learn the playbook and get used to the speed of the NFL. He will know how to run the WCO offense.

Griffin does not run in a true pro style offense. Its part pro style part college (part WCO). He will have a longer time adjusting and learning the offense as opposed to luck. This is a huge reason why Luck has an advantage and the big gap between Luck and Griffin.

And when you say I'm not sure how many people know what a pro style offense is, I think you're talking about yourself. Most of us here already know Luck runs a WCO which is used all around the NFL and how valuable a QB in a pro style offense is.

Common sense isnt so common? You are the only poster i've seen suggesting taking RG3 over Luck.

Im not talking about myself because i know what a west coast offense is, some even said that andrew luck ran an offense just like the one tim tebow was in.. was he nfl ready? the offense your in in college doesnt matter as you can see with cam newton... and if you go to the QB poll thread you will see im not the only person that has griffin over luck.

[WSO]

Why wouldn't they be at the combine? They might choose not to some of the drills, but they would be there.

Thats what I meant, I see no reason why they would participate in drills.

[Smitto]

Ill pass on Vick-lite.. RG3 is a great athlete, but how many run first QB's have been great in the NFL..

Griffin is not a run first QB, he's a Pass first QB which kinda shows how much you know about him...

Lil fact is the colts have a spread offense which is what they run... just like griffin.. so if you wanna talk about being ready for anything it would be Griffin being more prepared for an offense like the colts currently have based on what he ran in college... since he ran the spread.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Thats what I meant, I see no reason why they would participate in drills.

They've been working out more recently.. Most if not all of the top qb's worked out last year at the combine. Some will do some work outs while waiting for private workouts. It's just hard to say at this point.

[WSO]

Im not talking about myself because i know what a west coast offense is, some even said that andrew luck ran an offense just like the one tim tebow was in.. was he nfl ready? the offense your in in college doesnt matter as you can see with cam newton... and if you go to the QB poll thread you will see im not the only person that has griffin over luck.

Are you suggesting that Andrew Luck runs the same offense as Tim Tebow? Really? I didn't say that RG3 would never succeed. I'm saying someone who plays in a pro style offense will have an advantage over someone who doesn't or only plays in a partial one. If Andrew Luck and Cam Newton were in the same draft, Luck would still be #1 overall. The one thing that is holding RG3 back is he has more to learn than Luck coming into the NFL. If Luck was not in this draft, RG3 would be the #1 QB taken without a doubt.

[Balzer40]

Griffin is not a run first QB, he's a Pass first QB which kinda shows how much you know about him...

Lil fact is the colts have a spread offense which is what they run... just like griffin.. so if you wanna talk about being ready for anything it would be Griffin being more prepared for an offense like the colts currently have based on what he ran in college... since he ran the spread.

No he's not. Not even close. Once again, Griffin has never had to read defenses in college. He basically has no idea what he's going to be up against in the NFL. Griffin has relied on his athletisism in college regardless of whether you think he's a run first or pass first QB. His athletic ability is what made him successful in college and that is going to change in the NFL. In the NFL all the players are bigger, faster, and more athletic than what he's faced in college.

[Smitto]

They will not be at the combine

I'm glad you aren't a GM lol

What are you his agent? you dont know that