Article claiming Colts will break the bank to infinity to pay Luck-opinions?

[BProland85]

24 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

In what way?

 

By not having a team around Luck because he is morgaging too much cap with his contract. 

[Superman]

4 minutes ago, GoatBeard said:

 

Congrats you saved us enough money to sign a really good free safety! 

 

That's true if really good free safeties go for $2-3m/year...

[Everyone]

1 minute ago, threeflight said:

For 2-3 really good players, a top qb, and 2-3 number one picks and some 2nd and 3rd rounders?  And not have to pay him $25-$20 M a year?

 

Don't see how that is ridiculous.  He is not the second coming.  Did you actually watch him play last year?

I'm just going to assume last season is the first time you ever watched him play. 

[threeflight]

7 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

So it's okay if they pay him $21m/year (would be 5th in the league), but they're making a big mistake if they pay him $23m/year (would be 1st). Is that what you're saying? Over a six year deal, that's a difference of $12m, on average about 1% of the salary cap. Is that what you're making all this noise about?

 

What about the guaranteed money, which was the point of the article posted? What's the difference between guaranteeing his first three years and guaranteeing his first four? Do you expect the Colts to be getting rid of Luck within the next four years?

You are forgetting that the point of the article, from my pov, was the article talked about paying him close to $30 M a year, with $100 M of that guaranteed.  So if he never plays again after getting his knee blown out next year...doesn't matter.  We still owe him.  If he was the top rated qb in the NFL?  Pay him that.

 

He isn't and hasn't really been close.  

[Coffeedrinker]

9 minutes ago, threeflight said:

Really amazed at all of the white knights sucking up to Luck in this forum.  If I didn't know better, I would have thought Luck was a 10/10 HBB posting a half naked pic to her 50,000 instagram followers with all of the white knighting going on.

 

Fact is LUCK has done nothing to justify being the highest paid player in the NFL, and I still have yet to see one shred of evidence from anyone here that he is.

 

 

No you're rant is you don't think Luck is worth what the author of the article you linked and your own misunderstanding of what the author stated, estimated he is going to get.

 

I have found however, that those with preconceived ideas, no amount of evidence changes their mind.  Has Luck done anything to warrant being the highest paid player in the NFL?  Yes, he has shown he can take the team on his back and carry them almost single handily to victory, he has shown that he makes the players around him better and he has shown that he has the mental make-up and dedication to keep improving his game.  That is what he has done to justify being the highest paid player in the league.

[Jason_]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/31/sports/football/manning-agrees-to-90-million-contract-with-colts.html?_r=0

 

 

for some reason wasn't letting me paste the link in my last post

[Coffeedrinker]

Just now, threeflight said:

You are forgetting that the point of the article, from my pov, was the article talked about paying him close to $30 M a year, with $100 M of that guaranteed.  So of he never plays again after getting his knee blown out next year...doesn't matter.  We still owe him.  If he was the top rated qb in the NFL?  Pay him that.

 

He isn't and hasn't really been close.  

That is not what it said, it said the going rate for guaranteed money is similar to three franchise tags.

[Everyone]

1 minute ago, threeflight said:

You are forgetting that the point of the article, from my pov, was the article talked about paying him close to $30 M a year, with $100 M of that guaranteed.  So of he never plays again after getting his knee blown out next year...doesn't matter.  We still owe him.  If he was the top rated qb in the NFL?  Pay him that.

 

He isn't and hasn't really been close.  

I have some news for you, there are roughly 31 other teams in the league that wouldn't mind giving him a huge contract.

[jvan1973]

1 minute ago, threeflight said:

You are forgetting that the point of the article, from my pov, was the article talked about paying him close to $30 M a year, with $100 M of that guaranteed.  So of he never plays again after getting his knee blown out next year...doesn't matter.  We still owe him.  If he was the top rated qb in the NFL?  Pay him that.

 

He isn't and hasn't really been close.  

Again,    he isn't getting 30 million a year

[JlynRN]

7 minutes ago, threeflight said:

For 2-3 really good players, a top qb, and 2-3 number one picks and some 2nd and 3rd rounders?  And not have to pay him $25-$20 M a year?

 

Don't see how that is ridiculous.  He is not the second coming.  Did you actually watch him play last year?

 

Did you actually watch Luck play his 1st 3 years???  You are the one being ridiculous !!

[threeflight]

4 minutes ago, Jason_S said:

 

Difference of opinion on several of these.  IMO, Brackett shouldn't have even been given a new contract, and regardless of Sanders coming off a DPOY year, he had also not shown the ability to stay healthy for a full season, so I'd have personally never given him such a contract.  Freeney is one of the all time great pass rushers, but wasn't a complete player in terms of run support, so I disagree that he was one of the best defensie players in the league.  One of the best pass rushers?  Absolutely, but best overall defensive player?  No, not at all.  Again, just my opinion.

 

I do agree that Cherilus' contract was somewhat blown out of proportion, but still Irsay's need to tweet about making him the highest paid RT in the league gives me reason to wonder if the contract was inflated a bit more than it should/could have been.  Not saying it was out of control or anything, but I do believe it was inflated more than the typical FA contract is.

 

With Manning, I'm specifically thinking of times when Irsay would talk about how he was going to make Manning the highest paid player when there was no apparent need to make such a proclamation.  Then, with his final contract, there were multiple reports about how it was Manning that insisted on the clause in his contract that gave the team the option to release him depending on his neck health.  I would think that would have been highest priority to Polian/Irsay.  Also, this is just one article that talks about Manning telling Irsay/Polian that he doesn't want as much money as he was offered:

 

 

the article also has a quote from Irsay saying that, while Manning's contract was an average of $18 mil per year, he was actually going to be paid $23 mil per year the first 3 years and only $10 mil the final two...and we know how common it is for a deal to get restructured in the final year or two.  I don't see any universe in which Manning actually plays for $10 mil per those final 2 years.

 

 

 

My point exactly.  Well said.  I really think Irsay gets off on making these guys the highest paid.  It's an ego thing to him.  To have the other NFL owners look at how he pays his players and his ability to do so.  

[jvan1973]

1 minute ago, threeflight said:

My point exactly.  Well said.  I really think Irsay gets off on making these guys the highest paid.  It's an ego thing to him.  To have the other NFL owners look at how he pays his players and his ability to do so.  

All nfl owners have the ability to.   

[Jason_]

12 minutes ago, GoatBeard said:

So if you're running a business you don't consider all factors when it comes to a player being worth his contract?

 

You guys act like we haven't been winning lol. We have yet to have a losing season, even with the disaster last year.

 

If you are running a team and you have one of the gems of the league that the vast majority of the league would kill for, and you decide he is "not worth it", you are a fool.

 

I'm not all over the place the kid has been phenomenal and anyone who doesn't think so doesn't k ow what they are talking about. You are just another Skip Bayless running your mouth. No football people say these kinds of things about Luck because they understand that it is damn near impossible to win while playing QB without protection, a running game or a great defense. Which Luck has managed to do. 

 

Stats don't tell you everything you need to know. This is real football not fan duel.

 

You are assuming a LOT about me.  I haven't brought stats up once.  Stats don't tell the whole story..they never do, and most of the time they can be manipulated and cherry-picked to prove whatever point you're trying to make.

 

I'm also not acting at all like we haven't been winning.  However, YOU seem to be acting like the winning has been ONLY because of Luck. 

 

And how in hell do you get that I'm just another Skip Bayless running my mouth?  I have literally not said ONE NEGATIVE THING about Luck in this thread.  My point has always been that there are OTHER PLAYERS on the team that are also contributing and helping the team win in ways that makes them deserving of their contracts.  Sure, some players under perform in terms of their contracts, but other players more than outplay their contracts.  While I don't think he was any kind of superstar and I wasn't upset that the colts let him walk, Jerrell Freeman absolutely was worth the contract he's played on the past few years. 

 

So save your soapbox rants about Luck being the greatest thing since sliced bread for those that are trying to claim otherwise.  All I've done is try to stick up for the other 52 players on the team that you seem to be forgetting about.

[Goatface Killah]

8 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

That's true if really good free safeties go for $2-3m/year...

I was being generous.

 

Maybe just a backup free safety lol

[Superman]

Just now, BProland85 said:

 

By not having a team around Luck because he is morgaging too much cap with his contract. 

 

Let's say the cap increases an average of 7% over the remainder of this CBA -- through 2020. (The cap has been increasing by about 8% the past couple years.) It's $155m this year, would go to $166m, $177m, $190m, $203m. That's total cap of $891m. 

 

Let's say Luck does a six year deal at $23m/year. That's $138m, but it runs through 2021, so I'm going to cut off $23m for the final year which would roll into the new CBA. So we have $115m to pay Luck, against a cap that totals $891m. He'd average 13% of the Colts cap.

 

Peyton Manning accounted for 12% of the Broncos cap last year. They managed to have a team around him.

 

If we have a great QB and can't manage to put a team around him because he takes up 13-15% of the cap, then the problem is not the QB. You don't hold out on your best player who happens to play the most important position in team sports because of a couple percent on the cap each year. You pay the man, and it's on your staff to figure out the rest.

[Buck Showalter]

This smells of Ole Blu...

 

Why feed the troll???

[Jason_]

5 minutes ago, threeflight said:

My point exactly.  Well said.  I really think Irsay gets off on making these guys the highest paid.  It's an ego thing to him.  To have the other NFL owners look at how he pays his players and his ability to do so.  

 

ok so here's the thing...I do kind of agree with your underlying point, but you keep taking it to absurd and illogical extremes.

[RockThatBlue]

1 hour ago, threeflight said:

Not sure how you can justify that.  Highest paid player in the NFL and he is worth it??

 

Again, change his name to Ryan Tanneyhill. Give him the same stats he has now through 5 years.  Are you going to make RT the highest paid player in the NFL?  

 

And if so, please justify how you can do that?  

Why would changing his name change anything? Most people think Luck is the best young QB in the NFL, they would think the same thing if his name was Ryan Tannehill and had the same stats.

[threeflight]

5 minutes ago, Jason_S said:

 

ok so here's the thing...I do kind of agree with your underlying point, but you keep taking it to absurd and illogical extremes.

What is the point in saying he will make Manning, or Luck, or Goster, the highest paid players in the league then?  The fact is there isn't a point, other than the need to boost his ego.  In fact it is counter productive to sound negotiating. 

[threeflight]

1 minute ago, RockThatBlue said:

Why would changing his name change anything? Most people think Luck is the best young QB in the NFL, they would think the same thing if his name was Ryan Tannehill and had the same stats.

You miss my point. My point was ever since high school and especially at Stanford. Luck has been anointed as the chosen one.  I believe that as a result, his image of being great is actually more than his actual worth. I am not saying Luck is not very very good.  He is.  He is simply not best paid player in the NFL good.   Taneyhill never had that kind of reputation.  So put Lucks numbers in Taneyhills, and imo Taneyhill gets paid to be about the 7th best qb in the league, which is what he is worth.

[Everyone]

4 minutes ago, threeflight said:

What is the point in saying he will make Manning, or Luck, or Goster, the highest paid players in the league then?  The fact is there isn't a point, other than the need to boost his ego.

I don't recall Irsay ever saying anything about wanting to make Cherilus the highest paid tackle. Frankly I can't recall him saying that about anyone but Manning and Luck.

[Goatface Killah]

6 minutes ago, Jason_S said:

 

You are assuming a LOT about me.  I haven't brought stats up once.  Stats don't tell the whole story..they never do, and most of the time they can be manipulated and cherry-picked to prove whatever point you're trying to make.

 

I'm also not acting at all like we haven't been winning.  However, YOU seem to be acting like the winning has been ONLY because of Luck. 

 

And how in hell do you get that I'm just another Skip Bayless running my mouth?  I have literally not said ONE NEGATIVE THING about Luck in this thread.  My point has always been that there are OTHER PLAYERS on the team that are also contributing and helping the team win in ways that makes them deserving of their contracts.  Sure, some players under perform in terms of their contracts, but other players more than outplay their contracts.  While I don't think he was any kind of superstar and I wasn't upset that the colts let him walk, Jerrell Freeman absolutely was worth the contract he's played on the past few years. 

 

So save your soapbox rants about Luck being the greatest thing since sliced bread for those that are trying to claim otherwise.  All I've done is try to stick up for the other 52 players on the team that you seem to be forgetting about.

I haven't forgot about them. But I'm not naive enough to believe Luck isn't the reason for our success. 

 

Look at Houston, how many years have we been saying "IF they find a qb". 

 

Without Luck the best we could ever hope for is Houston Texan level success. An occasional division title when the stars align just right and a wildcard game every 3-4 years.

 

Its the most important position by far and you should never sacrifice that position to improve the other positions on the field. NEVER. 

[threeflight]

2 minutes ago, Everyone said:

I don't recall Irsay ever saying anything about wanting to make Cherilus the highest paid tackle.

He tweeted it bragging about how he just made him the highest paid OL.  Like it was some sort of great accomplishment. 

 

It was weird.  

[Superman]

10 minutes ago, Jason_S said:

I don't see any universe in which Manning actually plays for $10 mil per those final 2 years.

 

Differences of opinion on the rest, which basically boil down to you telling some of your best players to go play the market because you'd rather penny pinch than pay them what the market says they're worth. That's not good team building. You let average guys walk, you don't let 'all time great pass rushers' walk. (I'd have been fine with Brackett leaving, but I think the market supported his contract at the time.)

 

But to the part I quoted above, I don't understand how you reach that conclusion. If the Colts had kept Manning after 2011, his contract would have expired after 2015. Why would he have warranted or expected a restructure? He said when he signed the deal that his expectation was that the deal would allow him to retire as a Colt. The deal was supposed to be frontloaded so that the team had cap flexibility in his last couple years under contract. Restructuring it would have defeated the point.

 

Also, Irsay is historically hesitant to extend players before their contracts expire. Grigson had to convince him to do AC and Hilton last year. I think he'd be perfectly fine with letting Luck play out his fifth year option, considering the fact that he twice let Manning play out the final year of his deal and then tagged him. There's no historical basis with Irsay or with Manning to think that they would have been looking to restructure that deal or give Manning more money in the last two years. The only way that would have happened would be if Manning looked like he had a couple more years in the tank. In that case, the Colts probably would have pushed him a nice bonus like the Pats just did with Brady, but still kept his cap hits on the lower end for legacy QBs.

[Goatface Killah]

8 minutes ago, Buck Showalter said:

This smells of Ole Blu...

 

Why feed the troll???

 

That guy was here too? I was on another board arguing with him about RGIII vs. Luck during his rookie year. Haven't seen him in awhile lol

[Superman]

8 minutes ago, Buck Showalter said:

This smells of Ole Blu...

 

Why feed the troll???

 

Oh goodness, you're right...

[threeflight]

1 minute ago, GoatBeard said:

 

That guy was here too? I was on another board arguing with him about RGIII vs. Luck during his rookie year. Haven't seen him in awhile lol

I can show you countless threads I was involved in over on body building dot com and others where I argued that RGIII was not even in the same Universe as Luck.

[Goatface Killah]

1 minute ago, threeflight said:

I can show you countless threads I was involved in over on body building dot com and others where I argued that RGIII was not even in the same Universe as Luck.

You a body builder? I apologize sir you are right I was wrong lol

 

Don't take me personally man I am just maybe the biggest Andrew Luck on earth. If they traded him I might fall into alocholism for good.

[threeflight]

Here is one here.  http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=149085193&page=9

 

Here is what I said back in 2012 from that tread.  And as you can tell, I was very high on him, still am.  But he has regressed and is not worth what is being talked about.

 

I said this going into the season and I stick to it even more now. Watching both in college, it was obvious they are both fine qb's. But imo, Luck is one of the once in a generation qb's. You combine his accuracy, his smarts, his athleticism, and a good arm, and you have Peyton Manning, but better. A guy that can not only elude tacklers in the pocket, but a guy who has just as much pure speed as Cam Newton. What he has done with the colts is amazing. This team is bad. Half of the offense are rookies. The O line blows. Their running game up until the past 2 games was non existent. He has already led the team to 4 come from behind wins, should have been a 5th against the jaguars if the Colts dont allow a 74 yard pass in the final minute.

RG3 is very very good, but you look at all the great qb's throughout history, from Unitas to Fouts to Marino to Manning to Brady to Rogers. They all have one thing in common. They are pocket passers. A guy like Rg3 can be good, even great for a while, but NFL defenses will figure him out. Already starting too. Meanwhile Luck? He FIGURES OUT NFL defenses. He is like a mistro out there directing protection schemes and audibles like he is a 5 year vet. Give him another year? He is going to be scary, as in monster, good. I said he has a chance imo while watching him at Stanford to be one of the greatest qb's ever, and nothing he has done this year has caused me to change that. I dare say I believe he will even be better than Manning. So much more athletic. The Colts have a dream coming true going from one great to another. Just an amazing thing.

 

[Everyone]

6 minutes ago, threeflight said:

He tweeted it bragging about how he just made him the highest paid OL.  Like it was some sort of great accomplishment. 

 

It was weird.  

The way understand it, Cherilus was a sought after RT so there was competition to sign him and Irsay said it made him the 2nd highest paid RT.  I don't see the big deal here.

[jvan1973]

7 minutes ago, threeflight said:

He tweeted it bragging about how he just made him the highest paid OL.  Like it was some sort of great accomplishment. 

 

It was weird.  

He was never the highest paid O Lineman

[threeflight]

2 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

He was never the highest paid O Lineman

OT.  My bad.

 

Point is, and I LOVE ISRAY as I think he is a great owner, he has an ego and he gets off on paying players A LOT and talking about it.

[RockThatBlue]

27 minutes ago, threeflight said:

For 2-3 really good players, a top qb, and 2-3 number one picks and some 2nd and 3rd rounders?  And not have to pay him $25-$20 M a year?

 

Don't see how that is ridiculous.  He is not the second coming.  Did you actually watch him play last year?

I dont give a damn what Irsay pays him. I'd rather bring him back than trading him. Its unlikely he gets 30 million anyway, you're seriously flipping out over an article SPECULATING over what his contract might be. 

 

This is seriously one of the stupidest threads I've ever read on here. You've lost your mind over something that might not even happen, good God. 

[threeflight]

Just now, RockThatBlue said:

I dont give a damn what Irsay pays him. I'd rather bring him back than trading him. Its unlikely he gets 30 million anyway, you're seriously flipping out over an article SPECULATING over what his contract might be. 

 

This is seriously one of the stupidest threads I've ever read on here. You've lost your mind over something that might not even happen, good God. 

No.  In the OP I asked for people's opinions.  I gave mine.  Others gave theirs opposite of mine.  What he gets paid we will find out.  I am simply stating he is not worth what was talked about in the article.

[Colts_Fan12]

1 hour ago, GoatBeard said:

Uh..... yeah. Next time you watch a game go look at how many #12 jerseys are in the stands. You think anybody is gonna buy a damn Connor Cook jersey? 

I would lol

[Superman]

30 minutes ago, threeflight said:

You are forgetting that the point of the article, from my pov, was the article talked about paying him close to $30 M a year, with $100 M of that guaranteed.  So if he never plays again after getting his knee blown out next year...doesn't matter.  We still owe him.  If he was the top rated qb in the NFL?  Pay him that.

 

He isn't and hasn't really been close.  

 

The article didn't say anything about paying him $30m/year. Try again.

[Colts_Fan12]

1 hour ago, GoatBeard said:

Delete

[Goatface Killah]

2 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

I would lol

Well to be fair there is always that one guy lol

[Colts_Fan12]

1 hour ago, IndySouthsider said:

Dude just called Brady average.

 

 

He's not as good as people make him out to be actually overrated Imo

[Colts_Fan12]

2 minutes ago, GoatBeard said:

Well to be fair there is always that one guy lol

I wouldn't trade luck lol but if cook was on our team hell yeah I'd buy one I'm a huge MSU fan