Grigson: There are "character" guys that we feel better about after background checks

[Jackie Daytona]

13 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Except that DQ has one incident in roughly 10 NFL years.    And it just happened recently.

 

Nkemdiche and Spence have more incidents and they're not even in the NFL yet.     This is not a good apples to apples comparison.

Agreed.  But you made no mention of frequency of events for a player.  You used the fact that DQ's event was off-field to justify why he is ok to have on the team versus Nkemdiche, or Spence...... by that criteria, and that criteria alone...... It's a non-issue.  All their events were off-field.  You didn't mention any other factors, illegality, frequency, severity, just that DQ's issue was ok because it was off-field.    No biggie.

[NewColtsFan]

Just now, Shafty138 said:

Agreed.  But you made no mention of frequency of events for a player.  You used the fact that DQ's event was off-field to justify why he is ok to have on the team versus Nkemdiche, or Spence...... by that criteria, and that criteria alone...... It's a non-issue.  All their events were off-field.  You didn't mention any other factors, illegality, frequency, severity, just that DQ's issue was ok because it was off-field.    No biggie.

 

I'll expand.

 

DQ's incident is likely to get him suspended for last least one game,  and maybe two by the NFL.     It's NOT insignificant.    

 

But it IS the first type of incident in the guy's career.    He's been a very good player ON the field and a very good person OFF the field and in the clubhouse his whole career.

 

I'm measuring Jackson's whole career vs. two talented kids whose NFL career hasn't even started yet.

 

Nkemdiche has had issues for three years on AND off the field.      Spence has only had issues off the field,  but they were so severe that he got kicked out of Ohio State,  AND got banned from the rest of the Big-10.    He also had a minor arrest for being drunk and disorderly while at Eastern Kentucky. 

 

Both Spence and Nkemdiche have reportedly not interviewed well.      It all adds up to being extra, extra cautious with these two.

 

I don't think comparing DQ to those kids over one incident is a fair or correct comparison.

 

Hope that clarifies my thoughts.......

 

[Jason_]

10 minutes ago, stitches said:

Here's the full press-conference for the ones who want to see the full context and phrasing:

http://www.colts.com/videos/videos/04-20-2016-Ryan-Grigson-Press-Conference-/59790eec-a69e-42f4-84f5-2567225fa584

 

 

[MSColtsFan]

30 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

DQ's incident is likely to get him suspended for last least one game,  and maybe two by the NFL.     It's NOT insignificant.   

Where did you hear that?  The minimal penalty imposed, no probation, no scheduled meeting with Roger in NY...  No criminal history or league history  of trouble...  Last I read he was even appealing the verdict, so this may all get overturned.  It's about as insignificant as an arrest for simple assault can be.  On every level.  Criminally, professionally, personally.... 

[NewColtsFan]

35 minutes ago, MSColtsFan said:

Where did you hear that?  The minimal penalty imposed, no probation, no scheduled meeting with Roger in NY...  No criminal history or league history  of trouble...  Last I read he was even appealing the verdict, so this may all get overturned.  It's about as insignificant as an arrest for simple assault can be.  On every level.  Criminally, professionally, personally.... 

 

I didn't hear it anywhere.     But he got convicted of assault.      You think he's not going to get a suspension of any kind?

 

Not sure why you'd think that......

 

[MSColtsFan]

6 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I didn't hear it anywhere.     But he got convicted of assault.      You think he's not going to get a suspension of any kind?

 

Not sure why you'd think that......

 

So you made it up.  Ok, that makes sense. 

 

I'm not sure I see any precedent for it...  lots of domestic simple assault suspensions, I'm not sure I see one man to man simple assault NFL suspension on the list.  Women and children, or sexual  topics yes.  But since the stricter rules were adopted in 2014, I don't see one example of a first time offender convicted of simple assault with only a monetary fine being suspended by the NFL.  I suppose DQ could be the guinea pig.  I doubt it though.  He'll now be "on the list" though, I'm sure. 

 

Look at the suspension list.  It's domestic incidents, repeat offenders, egregious behavior...  DQ didn't like how a dude parked, words exchanged, a slap and tickle fight, and it's over.  $1000 toward the great DC budget.  The pending civil suit doesn't impact this.  And the appeal may well get it all tossed.  There is nothing there that remotely says two games by the NFL to me.  Had it been a girlfriend, his third run in with the law, if he launched hate filled nonsense on social media afterward and wasn't contrite, maybe a game or two... 

[MSColtsFan]

10 minutes ago, MSColtsFan said:

I'm not sure I see any precedent for it... 

 

29 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

But he got convicted of assault.      You think he's not going to get a suspension of any kind?
 

 

TJ Ward - threw a mug at a bartender.  I stand corrected.  There is one example of a one game suspension for male on male simple assault conviction.

[dgambill]

22 hours ago, BleedBlu8792 said:

Mr. Spence at #18? Absolutely!

 

/Buckeyebias

Are we really talking Spence in the first rd? I haven't seen the speed or size I'd like nor the power to think he is a lock to be a first rd pick. Yeah he dominated lower tier competition but I'm not sure he has the moves to dominate in the NFL. I do like his motor but I'm not sure I would say he is as gifted to be taken as high up as we are. If its later in the draft I understand but this is the highest we may be in the draft for the next 10 years...I'd like to get a high value pick I have a little more confidence in. Perhaps I'm seeing him different but going from playing on a team full of NFL players where he gets to play opposite Bosa and the attention he got to playing the level he did at Eastern I'm just not sold this is the best player that will be available at 18. I'm normally not a combine kinda guy but he didn't exactly impress me with anything there either.

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, MSColtsFan said:

So you made it up.  Ok, that makes sense. 

 

I'm not sure I see any precedent for it...  lots of domestic simple assault suspensions, I'm not sure I see one man to man simple assault NFL suspension on the list.  Women and children, or sexual  topics yes.  But since the stricter rules were adopted in 2014, I don't see one example of a first time offender convicted of simple assault with only a monetary fine being suspended by the NFL.  I suppose DQ could be the guinea pig.  I doubt it though.  He'll now be "on the list" though, I'm sure. 

 

Look at the suspension list.  It's domestic incidents, repeat offenders, egregious behavior...  DQ didn't like how a dude parked, words exchanged, a slap and tickle fight, and it's over.  $1000 toward the great DC budget.  The pending civil suit doesn't impact this.  And the appeal may well get it all tossed.  There is nothing there that remotely says two games by the NFL to me.  Had it been a girlfriend, his third run in with the law, if he launched hate filled nonsense on social media afterward and wasn't contrite, maybe a game or two... 

 

I made it up?

 

I offered my opinion.     Those two things are not the same.

 

Hey,  I'd be happy to be wrong.     If DQ only get a fine,  then great.    But I'd expect more and hope that it doesn't happen.

 

[NewColtsFan]

44 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Are we really talking Spence in the first rd? I haven't seen the speed or size I'd like nor the power to think he is a lock to be a first rd pick. Yeah he dominated lower tier competition but I'm not sure he has the moves to dominate in the NFL. I do like his motor but I'm not sure I would say he is as gifted to be taken as high up as we are. If its later in the draft I understand but this is the highest we may be in the draft for the next 10 years...I'd like to get a high value pick I have a little more confidence in. Perhaps I'm seeing him different but going from playing on a team full of NFL players where he gets to play opposite Bosa and the attention he got to playing the level he did at Eastern I'm just not sold this is the best player that will be available at 18. I'm normally not a combine kinda guy but he didn't exactly impress me with anything there either.

 

You haven't seen the size?

 

He's 6'2" and 250.    Basically the same as Walden.    What more size were you looking for?

 

[Jackie Daytona]

3 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I'll expand.

 

DQ's incident is likely to get him suspended for last least one game,  and maybe two by the NFL.     It's NOT insignificant.    

 

But it IS the first type of incident in the guy's career.    He's been a very good player ON the field and a very good person OFF the field and in the clubhouse his whole career.

 

I'm measuring Jackson's whole career vs. two talented kids whose NFL career hasn't even started yet.

 

Nkemdiche has had issues for three years on AND off the field.      Spence has only had issues off the field,  but they were so severe that he got kicked out of Ohio State,  AND got banned from the rest of the Big-10.    He also had a minor arrest for being drunk and disorderly while at Eastern Kentucky. 

 

Both Spence and Nkemdiche have reportedly not interviewed well.      It all adds up to being extra, extra cautious with these two.

 

I don't think comparing DQ to those kids over one incident is a fair or correct comparison.

 

Hope that clarifies my thoughts.......

 

I agree with everything you stated here.  That said, In my oponion, and possibly in mine alone, both Spence and Nkemdiche have a ceiling much higher than D'Qwell Jackson ever had, and most certainly has going forward..... the question within all of this discourse remains:  Do the Indianapolis Colts believe the potential is worth any inherent risk in drafting Nkemdiche or Spence at 18, and then again when the cost is less if either were available at 48.....

[BleedBlu8792]

52 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Are we really talking Spence in the first rd? I haven't seen the speed or size I'd like nor the power to think he is a lock to be a first rd pick. Yeah he dominated lower tier competition but I'm not sure he has the moves to dominate in the NFL. I do like his motor but I'm not sure I would say he is as gifted to be taken as high up as we are. If its later in the draft I understand but this is the highest we may be in the draft for the next 10 years...I'd like to get a high value pick I have a little more confidence in. Perhaps I'm seeing him different but going from playing on a team full of NFL players where he gets to play opposite Bosa and the attention he got to playing the level he did at Eastern I'm just not sold this is the best player that will be available at 18. I'm normally not a combine kinda guy but he didn't exactly impress me with anything there either.

 

The kid was excellent his sophomore year at Ohio State. Had he continued to develop under Urban, he would arguably be rated higher than Bosa right now. Bosa was a freshmen when Spence was a sophomore, so I'm not sure one really benefited from the other. However, his 2013 stats along with Bosa's, could have been better but they didn't get a ton of 4th quarter action that year. 

 

If he doesn't have the past off-field issues he's a top-10/15 guy all day and that's been the opinion of some of the analysts all along, He dominated at the Senior Bowl, but teams were still questioning his past events. With the recent article of teams feeling more comfortable with those "red-flag" players, Spence probably being one of those guys, I wouldn't be surprised to see him go in the 1st now.

 

Spence gives versatility in being able to play both SAM/Rush OLB spots. Again, I would love to have him knowing what he's capable of. 

[NewColtsFan]

5 minutes ago, Shafty138 said:

I agree with everything you stated here.  That said, In my oponion, and possibly in mine alone, both Spence and Nkemdiche have a ceiling much higher than D'Qwell Jackson ever had, and most certainly has going forward..... the question within all of this discourse remains:  Do the Indianapolis Colts believe the potential is worth any inherent risk in drafting Nkemdiche or Spence at 18, and then again when the cost is less if either were available at 48.....

 

Those are fair questions about Spence and Nkemdiche.

 

That said,  for the last few years Grigson has been operating under a certain core belief.

 

Put succinctly,   "No knuckleheads in the first 4 rounds."    

 

So, if he holds to that,  he's going to pass on guys with questionable character for the first few days of the draft.

 

Now,  that said,  Grigson was quoted in the last day or so saying roughly circumstances may force him to show more flexibility in this area.    That's why the issue of character was brought up yesterday at his pre-draft meeting with the media.      Maybe that's a hint that someone like Spence or Nkemdiche would be considered?

 

Or,  it could just be a smokescreen.....    there are lots of those floated at this time of year....   I try not to read too much into any one quote.

 

 

[BleedBlu8792]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

You haven't seen the size?

 

He's 6'2" and 250.    Basically the same as Walden.    What more size were you looking for?

 

 

Plenty of size to play either side in our scheme...

[Jackie Daytona]

Just now, NewColtsFan said:

 

Those are fair questions about Spence and Nkemdiche.

 

That said,  for the last few years Grigson has been operating under a certain core belief.

 

Put succinctly,   "No knuckleheads in the first 4 rounds."    

 

So, if he holds to that,  he's going to pass on guys with questionable character for the first few days of the draft.

 

Now,  that said,  Grigson was quoted in the last day or so saying roughly circumstances may force him to show more flexibility in this area.    That's why the issue of character was brought up yesterday at his pre-draft meeting with the media.      Maybe that's a hint that someone like Spence or Nkemdiche would be considered?

 

Or,  it could just be a smokescreen.....    there are lots of those floated at this time of year....   I try not to read too much into any one quote.

 

 

Could ALWAYS be a smokescreen...... not sure who other else he could be referencing when he said some guys with character issues put concerns to rest for them..... any others in positions of need for the Colts expected to be mid round guys with character issues?

[Jackie Daytona]

I just hope he's not set on Ragland at 18 and trying to get people to not pick him earlier than that..... I like Ragland plenty, but a run stuffing MLB who is limited in cover ability isn't at the top of my list with a year plus of DQ and Nate Irving already on roster....

[NewColtsFan]

15 minutes ago, Shafty138 said:

Could ALWAYS be a smokescreen...... not sure who other else he could be referencing when he said some guys with character issues put concerns to rest for them..... any others in positions of need for the Colts expected to be mid round guys with character issues?

 

Not sure of exact players....   I'm sure there are...    there always are in any given year.    But, due to family reasons I haven't been able to do as much homework as in years past.

 

That said, what I do know is that last year,  every draft pick had 1's and 2's in the 1-5 grading for character,  so clearly character counts with Grigson and Pagano and Irsay.      Whether they fudge a little this year will become clear in about a week or so.....

 

[southwest1]

7 hours ago, MSColtsFan said:

I think this is the more balanced report, as opposed to the definitive statement without backing..

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/04/21/ryan-grigson-admits-he-may-be-risk-averse-in-this-draft/

 

And all that says is he's gun-shy, really.  That in a year without a lot of room for error, the safe pick may be the only choice. 

I did watch Grigson's press conference on Colts.com this morning. He was asked about failures he made in the draft mainly Werner & he basically said that sacks in college usually transfer onto the next NFL level. I guess I just appreciated the look of disappointment on his face that a pick he thought would make it never did. 

 

I just get the sense that Ryan knows he can't screw up now meaning the latitude he had to previous years to prove himself is now gone. I just like it when a GM's facial expression says yeah I know I royally messed up on Werner even if he never admits it out loud his eyes do. So, staying away completely from red flag draft prospects is a good idea. 

 

As far as concrete info on our draft direction this year, who the hades knows...I can never get a read on Grigs. So be it. 

[dgambill]

21 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

You haven't seen the size?

 

He's 6'2" and 250.    Basically the same as Walden.    What more size were you looking for?

 

I would prefer someone a bit taller like 6'4 perhaps more like Demarcus Ware or Justin Houston. At 6'2 he is shorter than Von Miller and those guys and much slower...with no where near the moves. Even Khalil Mack is taller and more speed. He just seems heavy at 6'2 and 250...and slower than I'd like running a 4.8 40. Combine that with his drug issues I would just have a hard time drafting him in the first....especially at 18. With our second rd pick sure.

[dgambill]

20 hours ago, BleedBlu8792 said:

 

The kid was excellent his sophomore year at Ohio State. Had he continued to develop under Urban, he would arguably be rated higher than Bosa right now. Bosa was a freshmen when Spence was a sophomore, so I'm not sure one really benefited from the other. However, his 2013 stats along with Bosa's, could have been better but they didn't get a ton of 4th quarter action that year. 

 

If he doesn't have the past off-field issues he's a top-10/15 guy all day and that's been the opinion of some of the analysts all along, He dominated at the Senior Bowl, but teams were still questioning his past events. With the recent article of teams feeling more comfortable with those "red-flag" players, Spence probably being one of those guys, I wouldn't be surprised to see him go in the 1st now.

 

Spence gives versatility in being able to play both SAM/Rush OLB spots. Again, I would love to have him knowing what he's capable of. 

I think he is only that high on people's lists because of the lack of quality pass rushers this year and the fact that we just saw Denver dominate the NFL with a duo of rushers. I'm not sure I see his explosion of speed or variety of moves that make me think teams would have a hard time keeping him in front of them. At pick 18 I think we can do better...maybe not with a pass rusher but overall quality of player yes. I think he is a late first rd pick early second rd guy. Probably wouldn't last til our 2nd rd pick. Fact is every year there is a risky guy that drops to the bottom of the first rd....which is where we pick typically every year. If we want to take a risk with our first rd pick I'd much rather do it at the bottom of the draft as opposed to the highest up we would likely be in a long time hopefully. To me where we sit I think we have an opportunity to take a stand out player for us. I'd hate to gamble it away on a guy typical of what we see every year that falls because he has drug issues and his measurables aren't outstanding.

[Colts_Fan12]

On April 21, 2016 at 0:44 AM, COLTS449 said:

Most people know I'm BIG on Spence, and I have a gut feeling if he's there at 18 he's gonna be our pick. Why? Because he's the best pass rusher in this class, and the BPA in all likelihood. He'd look good in the blue and white. I'm telling you this kid will be a double digit sack EDGE rusher.

I'd love it then get that beast S Thomson in the 2nd with a C in the 3rd 

[COLTS449]

2 hours ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

I'd love it then get that beast S Thomson in the 2nd with a C in the 3rd 

 

I like Darrian Thompson, but not in the 2nd. Good chance Karl Joseph or Keanu Neal would be there at 48 if we wanted a safety.

[Colts_Fan12]

12 minutes ago, COLTS449 said:

 

I like Darrian Thompson, but not in the 2nd. Good chance Karl Joseph or Keanu Neal would be there at 48 if we wanted a safety.

Joseph is gonna go before our 2nd pick he's possibly gonna be a 1st rounder 

[COLTS449]

2 hours ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Joseph is gonna go before our 2nd pick he's possibly gonna be a 1st rounder 

 

I could see him going anywhere from the end of the 1st to the beginning of the 3rd.

[Nesjan3]

i would take spence over the guy who fell out of the window any day of the week. There is no way he falls to us in the second unless we traded up. i have a feeling if he is there at 18 we might take him and i would be perfectly fine with it, excasty is not an addictive drug, he is over it

[dgambill]

12 hours ago, Nesjan3 said:

i would take spence over the guy who fell out of the window any day of the week. There is no way he falls to us in the second unless we traded up. i have a feeling if he is there at 18 we might take him and i would be perfectly fine with it, excasty is not an addictive drug, he is over it

Maybe it is and maybe it isn't but the lifestyle that's associated around the drug sure is. Seen many college friends party their future away. I'd imagine getting out of Columbus to a small school like EKU can eliminate a lot of opportunities to get brought back into that lifestyle....when he has money and in and out of the biggest cities in the US will be still make the right choices? 

How many guys drop every year to the bottom of rd 1 first part of second because of red flags. We typically draft down there every year. Here is our chance to get a great player at 18 with no reason to take a risk I don't see why we need to take the chance. I've seen better athletes drop every year if we want to risk one at the end of first. Just don't get the facination...watched tape and he doesn't jump off the screen as unblockable to me. Has a good motor but no elite speed punch or moves. I think in a different draft this guy wouldn't get a first rd grade...just a weak rush draft.

[Colts_Fan12]

1 hour ago, dgambill said:

Maybe it is and maybe it isn't but the lifestyle that's associated around the drug sure is. Seen many college friends party their future away. I'd imagine getting out of Columbus to a small school like EKU can eliminate a lot of opportunities to get brought back into that lifestyle....when he has money and in and out of the biggest cities in the US will be still make the right choices? 

How many guys drop every year to the bottom of rd 1 first part of second because of red flags. We typically draft down there every year. Here is our chance to get a great player at 18 with no reason to take a risk I don't see why we need to take the chance. I've seen better athletes drop every year if we want to risk one at the end of first. Just don't get the facination...watched tape and he doesn't jump off the screen as unblockable to me. Has a good motor but no elite speed punch or moves. I think in a different draft this guy wouldn't get a first rd grade...just a weak rush draft.

Well he is a billion times better then Werner and we took him in the first so??

[dgambill]

5 hours ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Well he is a billion times better then Werner and we took him in the first so??

Nobody knows that for certain. Werner was ACC defensive player of the year and has more sacks in college than Spence...ran an almost identical 40 time. One thing I'll say is neither showed they had that quick get off or a multitude of moves. They just simply out worked out talented the competition. That doesn't work often in the NFL. Not saying spence will be Werner in nfl but I'm not going to give him he is going to be better. Maybe he is Randy Gregory? Guess I don't see what others see. Maybe he blossoms but a 6'2 defensive end with 4.8 speed and a drug history who beat up inferior talent at EKU doesn't blow me away at 18. Like I said if we was picking 10 picks later like last year and we wanted to take a chance on a guy I'd feel better about it. There will be better talent at 18 then Spence. Maybe not a better pass rusher but that's not point. 

[BlueShoe]

On 4/21/2016 at 8:01 PM, MTC said:

Is Grigson describing Noah Spence and Leonte Carroo? 

 

Should I be worried or intrigued that you and I are the only ones thinking that comment was about Carroo? It immediately popped in my head, as soon as Grigson said it. 

 

For the record, I don't think it is likely he was talking about Spence. 

[Colts_Fan12]

31 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Nobody knows that for certain. Werner was ACC defensive player of the year and has more sacks in college than Spence...ran an almost identical 40 time. One thing I'll say is neither showed they had that quick get off or a multitude of moves. They just simply out worked out talented the competition. That doesn't work often in the NFL. Not saying spence will be Werner in nfl but I'm not going to give him he is going to be better. Maybe he is Randy Gregory? Guess I don't see what others see. Maybe he blossoms but a 6'2 defensive end with 4.8 speed and a drug history who beat up inferior talent at EKU doesn't blow me away at 18. Like I said if we was picking 10 picks later like last year and we wanted to take a chance on a guy I'd feel better about it. There will be better talent at 18 then Spence. Maybe not a better pass rusher but that's not point. 

He's was Ohio states leader in sacks before he got banned more then boss the supposedly top 5 talent from OSU 

[dgambill]

23 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

He's was Ohio states leader in sacks before he got banned more then boss the supposedly top 5 talent from OSU 

Are we still describing his similarities to Werner who led the Siminoles in sacks. I get it...he has name recognition...but he doesn't have elite size and strength, definitely not elite speed, and he doesn't have a wide variety of moves. Someone mentioned Walden...well if that is the value we get at 18 color me not impressed. There will definitely be better players available maybe even pass rushers at 18. We could even get better ones in the second imo but I wouldn't argue if we took him in the second. This pick at 18 needs to be a winner in a big way. I see too many red flags on him to justify the pick...and not just character. This might be the last time we pick in the top 20. I think there will be better talent available.

[Colts_Fan12]

1 hour ago, dgambill said:

Are we still describing his similarities to Werner who led the Siminoles in sacks. I get it...he has name recognition...but he doesn't have elite size and strength, definitely not elite speed, and he doesn't have a wide variety of moves. Someone mentioned Walden...well if that is the value we get at 18 color me not impressed. There will definitely be better players available maybe even pass rushers at 18. We could even get better ones in the second imo but I wouldn't argue if we took him in the second. This pick at 18 needs to be a winner in a big way. I see too many red flags on him to justify the pick...and not just character. This might be the last time we pick in the top 20. I think there will be better talent available.

I'm talking about how he's a better rusher then Bosa not comparing him to Werner if Bosa is so "great" why isn't spence when he's a better rusher and was a better player at OSU 

[dgambill]

2 hours ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

I'm talking about how he's a better rusher then Bosa not comparing him to Werner if Bosa is so "great" why isn't spence when he's a better rusher and was a better player at OSU 

Ok I'm not a huge Bosa fanboy but clearly we have plenty of Spence fanboys because you can't reason with someone who thinks Spence is a better player than Bosa. I'll take that comment as my que to exit. There is no reasoning clearly. Bosa is by far a more complete player and had the offense scheming to block him. He isn't JJ watt but he is going to be a handful for anybody. I'll just let the lovefest go on for Spence. If he becomes a Colt I'll hope I'm wrong but I just don't see this guy going at 18...even without the drug issue...let alone with his issues.

[Colts_Fan12]

4 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Ok I'm not a huge Bosa fanboy but clearly we have plenty of Spence fanboys because you can't reason with someone who thinks Spence is a better player than Bosa. I'll take that comment as my que to exit. There is no reasoning clearly. Bosa is by far a more complete player and had the offense scheming to block him. He isn't JJ watt but he is going to be a handful for anybody. I'll just let the lovefest go on for Spence. If he becomes a Colt I'll hope I'm wrong but I just don't see this guy going at 18...even without the drug issue...let alone with his issues.

Just saying he was better when he was at Ohio state facts don't lie 

[Surge89]

13 hours ago, dgambill said:

Maybe it is and maybe it isn't but the lifestyle that's associated around the drug sure is. Seen many college friends party their future away. I'd imagine getting out of Columbus to a small school like EKU can eliminate a lot of opportunities to get brought back into that lifestyle....when he has money and in and out of the biggest cities in the US will be still make the right choices? 

How many guys drop every year to the bottom of rd 1 first part of second because of red flags. We typically draft down there every year. Here is our chance to get a great player at 18 with no reason to take a risk I don't see why we need to take the chance. I've seen better athletes drop every year if we want to risk one at the end of first. Just don't get the facination...watched tape and he doesn't jump off the screen as unblockable to me. Has a good motor but no elite speed punch or moves. I think in a different draft this guy wouldn't get a first rd grade...just a weak rush draft.

 

 

He's not a 10+ sack year guy imo.  He doesn't have the necessary athleticism AND he's got off the field issues...

 

I agree he's a 2nd rounder without the off field issues.  With he's a 3rd.

[dgambill]

13 hours ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Just saying he was better when he was at Ohio state facts don't lie 

Look Spence had a half of a sack more the one and only year they played together and spence had a half more tackle for loss. Bosa was a freshman and spence a sophomore. Career wise in their first two years it isn't even close who was the better player and stats back that up. Bosa has had the cross hairs on him the past two years and played well. So what stats am I suppose to look at? Last year spence played at EKU that level of competition is poor and Bosa was double teamed virtually all season. I get it...people want a pass rusher but there could be better players available. I think he is a day two player...his combine numbers didn't help him either.

[Colts_Fan12]

11 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Look Spence had a half of a sack more the one and only year they played together and spence had a half more tackle for loss. Bosa was a freshman and spence a sophomore. Career wise in their first two years it isn't even close who was the better player and stats back that up. Bosa has had the cross hairs on him the past two years and played well. So what stats am I suppose to look at? Last year spence played at EKU that level of competition is poor and Bosa was double teamed virtually all season. I get it...people want a pass rusher but there could be better players available. I think he is a day two player...his combine numbers didn't help him either.

His number weren't that bad and why is he being mocked in the top 20 in some mocks he's the best pass rusher in the draft he will only improve with NFL coaching and experience plus he will add weight like all rookies do 

 

maid take him and David Perkins later and finally add some youth to the OLB position 

[jvan1973]

34 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

His number weren't that bad and why is he being mocked in the top 20 in some mocks he's the best pass rusher in the draft he will only improve with NFL coaching and experience plus he will add weight like all rookies do 

 

maid take him and David Perkins later and finally add some youth to the OLB position 

Nobody has him rated above bosa

[dgambill]

19 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Nobody has him rated above bosa

I don't think anyone even has him rated above darron lee another OSU OLB...although we know mock drafts are pretty much worthless. We need multiple lbs and interior lineman. I just hope we have the right guys fall to us. Heck I'd be happy with 2 OLBs, mlb, G, C, and safety in no particular order. We are ancient on defense basically will be losing our starting safety and two OLB and likely MLB at the end of this season with no replacements on the roster....and yes we need interior line help.

[Colts_Fan12]

23 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Nobody has him rated above bosa

I'm talking edge rushers I don't see Bosa living up to his hype as a top 5 player