Holders piece on Grigson

[DougDew]

24 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Well....   there's been enough written and made public to the know the following...

 

Pagano hired Arians.   He personally made the call and extended the offer.    I'm sure it was done with Grigson's approval.

 

Pagano hired Manusky.    He tried to hire a Pittsburgh LB coach, who stayed in Pitts and got bumped to DC there,  so Pags lost his top choice and got his 2nd.     Again,  I'm sure it was done with Grigson's approval.   

 

Apparently,  Grigson hired Hamilton.    I suspect it was with Pagano's approval, as Chud had just been hired by Cleveland to be their HC.     So, Pagano got the 2nd choice.

 

I think "Grigson hiring Rob Chudzinski is semantics.    I believe it was written that the idea was all Pagano's and he went to Grigson to ask that Chud be hired as the assistant head coach.    So, technically,  Grigson may have made the phone call,   but the person who came up with the idea to hire Chud was Pags.    
 

I'm just talking generally speaking.    The HC gets to hire his staff.    I'm sure the GM has to sign-off to make sure the HC is picking acceptable assistants,  but most HC's get to hire their staff.

 

That's always been my observation.....    for what little it may be worth.....  

 

I don't disagree with your facts.  Lets put it this way:

 

So Grigson allowed Pags to have his OC, his DC, and his second choice for OC when his first choice took the HC job.  Then when his first choice became available, he let Pags have him as Assistant HC.

 

Knowing this, would you write an article that made Grigson sound like an overbearing *? 

 

So I don't think it happened the way you described...and Pags was apparently happy to become HC anyway.

 

This whole 'rift" thingy an and overbearing domineering thingy just doesn't add up...but the STAR has made that accusation for so long they are going to have to dig up tidbits of inconsequential events that validate their writings, IMO.

 

I think the whole rift between Pags and Grigs is over the lack of a contract offer this summer, after Pags leads the team to the playoffs two years in a row.  It tells me that Grigs , and probably Irsay, had questions about Pags coaching prowess before last summer.  They are there to see things every day and maybe they didn't really like what they saw.

[NewColtsFan]

9 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I don't disagree with your facts.  Lets put it this way:

 

So Grigson allowed Pags to have his OC, his DC, and his second choice for OC when his first choice took the HC job.  Then when his first choice became available, he let Pags have him as Assistant HC.

 

Knowing this, would you write an article that made Grigson sound like an overbearing *? 

 

So I don't think it happened the way you described...and Pags was apparently happy to become HC anyway.

 

This whole 'rift" thingy an and overbearing domineering thingy just doesn't add up...but the STAR has made that accusation for so long they are going to have to dig up tidbits of inconsequential events that validate their writings, IMO.

 

I think the whole rift between Pags and Grigs is over the lack of a contract offer this summer, after Pags leads the team to the playoffs two years in a row.  It tells me that Grigs , and probably Irsay, had questions about Pags coaching prowess before last summer.  They are there to see things every day and maybe they didn't really like what they saw.

 

I think you make a strong argument,  but I'd add this....

 

I think it's more than just the whole contract thing.    Pagano has his job on the line from the GM who is responsible for assembling the talent that Pagano has to work with.       So,  Pags had Grigson saying, in essence,  "you're not doing a good enough job..."    and I suspect Pags is thinking the exact same thing about Grigson.     Page is thinking....   "Have you seen the players you've given me to work with?   Have you seen how many key players you've struck out on?    Why do you think I'm having so much trouble?    Because YOU'RE not doing a very good job of doing YOUR job!"

 

To me,  that's the rift.    Your piece, and my piece fit together as one. 

 

But since Grigson is Pagano's boss,  Pags knows the drill.    He's going to come out on the short end of this one.

 

[DougDew]

3 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I think you make a strong argument,  but I'd add this....

 

I think it's more than just the whole contract thing.    Pagano has his job on the line from the GM who is responsible for assembling the talent that Pagano has to work with.       So,  Pags had Grigson saying, in essence,  "you're not doing a good enough job..."    and I suspect Pags is thinking the exact same thing about Grigson.     Page is thinking....   "Have you seen the players you've given me to work with?   Have you seen how many key players you've struck out on?    Why do you think I'm having so much trouble?    Because YOU'RE not doing a very good job of doing YOUR job!"

 

To me,  that's the rift.    Your piece, and my piece fit together as one. 

 

But since Grigson is Pagano's boss,  Pags knows the drill.    He's going to come out on the short end of this one.

 

I agree.  But when things don't work out, there is always the questioning of how well the other guy is doing his job.  It think that is normal.  A rift happens that is perfectly understandable, IMO.

 

But the STAR has made a point to imply that the rift here is some sort of double secret extra juicy thingy beyond the normal lack of success and pointing fingers type of thing...and they imply Grigson is the source of it.

 

That may very well be the case....I just need more information than what I've read before I sip from that cup.

[MTC]

There is no doubt in my mind that Pagano is gone. 

 

Grigson, I want him gone, but I actually believe he'll be here for one more year.

[Corndog]

We will just have to wait until Monday, but I really hope Holder is wrong here. 

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

Grigson sucks he should go far away!

[Superman]

2 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I think you make a strong argument,  but I'd add this....

 

I think it's more than just the whole contract thing.    Pagano has his job on the line from the GM who is responsible for assembling the talent that Pagano has to work with.       So,  Pags had Grigson saying, in essence,  "you're not doing a good enough job..."    and I suspect Pags is thinking the exact same thing about Grigson.     Page is thinking....   "Have you seen the players you've given me to work with?   Have you seen how many key players you've struck out on?    Why do you think I'm having so much trouble?    Because YOU'RE not doing a very good job of doing YOUR job!"

 

To me,  that's the rift.    Your piece, and my piece fit together as one. 

 

But since Grigson is Pagano's boss,  Pags knows the drill.    He's going to come out on the short end of this one.

 

 

I think the hesitance on Pagano is coming from Irsay as much as it's coming from Grigson.

[ColtStronger]

Pagano's contract is up, so there is no need to fire him.  IDK if any announcement will be made or not, but I think if Grigson stays or not will be dependent on who the next HC is.  I would hope the next coach will be signed at least 2 weeks after the SB (hopefully before).  That way they can determine who will fill in the rest of the coaching staff positions and if Grigson will stay afloat.  I'm pretty confident Irsay will be the one hiring the coach this time around though.

[RockThatBlue]

8 hours ago, ColtStronger said:

Pagano's contract is up, so there is no need to fire him.  IDK if any announcement will be made or not, but I think if Grigson stays or not will be dependent on who the next HC is.  I would hope the next coach will be signed at least 2 weeks after the SB (hopefully before).  That way they can determine who will fill in the rest of the coaching staff positions and if Grigson will stay afloat.  I'm pretty confident Irsay will be the one hiring the coach this time around though.

My guess is we will know more about Grigsons status next Monday, or whenever Irsay/Grigson have a presser about Chuck. But I could be wrong. Next week will be very interesting...

[coltsva]

Can't leave coach or GM dangling on a 1 year deal. It's puts them in a "win now" mode with no concern for the future. Maybe that's why Pagano was playing Johnson over Dorsett. Why suffer through the growing pains of playing a rookie for someone else to reap the benefits next year.

 

Same thing with Grigson. If you keep him for the final year of his contract he may do some things to try and win now, but at the expense of what's good long term for the team.

 

If Grigson stays he needs to be extended at least 2 additional years. If at the end of next season you want to fire him, eat the contract. Same as they should have done with Pagano.

 

Hey, it's not my money.

[MR. Blueblood]

21 hours ago, DougDew said:

I hope that he supports it with facts corroborated by at least two reliable sources...which is the traditional American version of journalism.

He will "Unnamed source close to the situation #1, and unnamed source close to the situation #2".  You can't go around naming all these sources then everybody will know who to go to to get all the "grit"ty details.

[ColtStronger]

8 hours ago, RockThatBlue said:

My guess is we will know more about Grigsons status next Monday, or whenever Irsay/Grigson have a presser about Chuck. But I could be wrong. Next week will be very interesting...

My thought process is that with Chuck's contract expiring the FO just won't say make any announcements (if asked during a presser they will just say we are evaluating the situation and will make a decision shortly (bypass the question).  They will just simply hire a new coach.  With Grigson, I'm starting to think Irsay will give him 1 more chance because I believe his contract has 1 more year.  Unless Irsay brings in a coach that will be a "Jack of all trades".  Even if Grigson get's fired, it probably wont be until after the NFL season is officially over to see what other GM's get fired and available.

 

The Colts FO definitely like to keep everything hush hush so everybody is playing the guessing game.  I may be wrong but perhaps they don't like drama or confrontation.  They had their lips sealed when asked about the issues with Grigson and Pagano.  Pagano and Irsay were ambiguous about Luck's injuries this season both times.

 

However, the sooner we find out is the better.  I for one, am ready for the offseason (sounds crazy), but I just want to see changes happen.  Not just talking heads...

[DougDew]

3 hours ago, MR. Blueblood said:

He will "Unnamed source close to the situation #1, and unnamed source close to the situation #2".  You can't go around naming all these sources then everybody will know who to go to to get all the "grit"ty details.

True, but If those sources are AQ Shipley and Dwayne Allen, right now I can pretty much read you what Kravitz writes,  before Kravitz even writes it.  But we'll never know.

 

That's the problem with journalists and news organizations that go back and forth from opinion editorials to serious journalism...you know how their mind works so you have to question anything they claim is objective.

[bap1331]

On December 30, 2015 at 6:36 PM, Boiler_Colt said:

He's been saying for a while that he doesn't expect Grigson to be fired, at least not immediately. However, he does think that Irsay will hire the next Head Coach personally and that the new Coach may dictate whether Grigson stays or has his role diminished.

 

Yea we don't have time for seeing who grigson gets along with. Fire his baboon butt!